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  #1471  
Old 11-14-2012, 12:49 AM
shylo shylo is offline
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A Circut

It is well known that when you first start with a dead battery that it takes about 10 - 20 minutes before the motor starts to work.( In the original set-up).
But as the system runs the dead battery becomes conditioned and loses its' ability to perform its' initial function..
We need a circut that can rotate between dead batteries, at what frequency I`m not sure yet but such a rotation would prevent the worry of charging the dead battery.
Just keep switching to a new dead battery.
The system works until the dead battery``gets used to its`function,then it quits``
I`ll keep trying
shylo
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  #1472  
Old 11-14-2012, 02:01 AM
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That might work, but since the effect on the battery lasts over 24 hours and you can only run a battery for around 20 minutes before you would need to switch to a new one, that's around 75 batteries you'd need to keep the system running constantly. Don't think that's workable unless we can figure out a way to run it for a lot longer than 20 minutes on one battery. That MAY be possible since I've run some for days and even a couple weeks at different times, and others have reported running for a couple days before things go south. WOrth trying, but I'd still like to find a way to use one battery or find a replacement for it.
Dave
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  #1473  
Old 11-14-2012, 09:22 AM
shylo shylo is offline
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Sorry I guess I'm not very good at explaining myself
I was thinking just alternating between two dead batteries.
I going to try a new dead battery this weekend, so it should take ~15 mins before it starts, as soon as it does I will switch batteries, then check the status of the first. Also try a load on the first after disconnected.
When the second starts,disconnect it and repeat the procedure.
Then hook the first back up , but this time let it run for 5 minutes before disconnecting, repeat tests, and just keep increasing run time until I see a change in the dead batteries.
shylo
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  #1474  
Old 11-14-2012, 11:25 AM
JJUK JJUK is offline
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UFOpolitics Motor

Hi Dave,

Hopefully your tests with the load attached went according to plan yesterday!

Have you now abandoned standard symetric DC motors in favour of the UFOpolitics asymmetric motor for all your experimentation?

JJUK
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Last edited by JJUK; 11-14-2012 at 11:30 AM.
  #1475  
Old 11-14-2012, 03:27 PM
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Test went fine yesterday, thank goodness. And NO, NO, NO, I haven't abandoned standard motors. It needs to be a pulsed motor of some kind, and for some reason, UFO's motor acts LIKE a pulsed motor in its design. If you pulse a standard motor, you can get the same effect. I am ALSO using a stock MY1016 Razor scooter motor that I am pulsing, and it seems to be working too. I'm getting longer runs before the bad battery goes good on me. I think it may only be a matter of controlling the length of time of the "on" pulse to where the battery can't react to it and the motor keeps running, and possibly the length of time of the off time between the "on" pulses. I would LIKE to get usable power and work out of the motor, (like running a generator of some kind) and pulsing it makes it weaker, but if all I get is an inverter hooked up to battery 3 that runs forever, I will be a happy camper. My next step will be to try this with a discharged battery rather than a dead battery and see if I can get anywhere close to the same length of runs. If so, then start working on shorter pulses and longer off times.

Dave
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Last edited by Turion; 11-14-2012 at 03:37 PM.
  #1476  
Old 11-14-2012, 03:41 PM
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LutherG LutherG is offline
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Layout for test replication

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
I guess I'll have to get my scope out and make a movie... Cause no one gets it. I gotta find a camera somewhere..

The motor Steps the voltage up. About 150% of what ever the current potential difference is. IE 12 volt of difference shows 15 to 18 volt coming out of the motor Also the motor seems to add some current to the system at the point the brush engages the coil.

This hits the dead battery and FOR SOME REASON. The battery kicks out the opposite potential. IE the 18 volt that went in the dead battery come out of the Negative pole as -15 to -18 volt.
This voltage than now has a negative potential, more charge, and can charge the primaries. This process take a bit time and when you look at it you rarely have both positive and negative potential on the Battery at the same time. It loads up one side and then dumps the other side.. More on that in second.

You can watch this happen. You watch the current flow all the way around the system. And you can clearly see all the changing potentials.

So inevitably we should be able to put a load (Inverter) on Battery 3 and do more work while stile maintaining or charging the primary battery. That was Davids original experience anyway.

This becomes possible when you start to look at battery 3 behavior. Now we get to point when you either have 0 volt (-pole) and 15 volt (+pole) that then will shift to -15 (-pole) and 0 volt (+pole). Does the caps in the inverter care? No. the cap just charges based on the potential difference.

But as the caps charge they force new polarity onto the existing energy and the transformer runs the voltage up. So now you have this situation that no matter where the Cap gets the power from, the system runs it through, get the work done and deposits the low voltage end of it back onto the opposite pole which at any given time could be exactly where that power needs to go to be retained.
Mind you this part is theory I have not been able to witness it happening. But I have set up the very same thing in a Tesla Switch several times.

I wish people who have the ability to look would look at this with a scope, and note the behavior I have listed. Its very easy to see with few small modification to the system. If the entire thing were witnessed then maybe we could figure away around the dead battery. Or not.

Matt
Hi Matt,

When you have a moment, would you mind posting a quick drawing of how you are scoping your setup? Just a quick hand drawing would do... David mentioned to me that you had some diodes in the circuit somewhere so that you could map the direction of flow?

If it would be enough to just describe what you're doing that's fine - at least this way people that do put a scope on this will all be doing it the same way and we can compare notes...

All the best,

Luther
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  #1477  
Old 11-14-2012, 04:22 PM
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Ufopolitics Ufopolitics is offline
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You have abandoned ME...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Test went fine yesterday, thank goodness. And NO, NO, NO, I haven't abandoned standard motors. It needs to be a pulsed motor of some kind, and for some reason, UFO's motor acts LIKE a pulsed motor in its design. If you pulse a standard motor, you can get the same effect. I am ALSO using a stock MY1016 Razor scooter motor that I am pulsing, and it seems to be working too. I'm getting longer runs before the bad battery goes good on me. I think it may only be a matter of controlling the length of time of the "on" pulse to where the battery can't react to it and the motor keeps running, and possibly the length of time of the off time between the "on" pulses. I would LIKE to get usable power and work out of the motor, (like running a generator of some kind) and pulsing it makes it weaker, but if all I get is an inverter hooked up to battery 3 that runs forever, I will be a happy camper. My next step will be to try this with a discharged battery rather than a dead battery and see if I can get anywhere close to the same length of runs. If so, then start working on shorter pulses and longer off times.

Dave
Hey Dave,

You have been lost off your Asymmetric Motor-Generator construction/testing...after all the writing and diagrams I had spent, explaining exclusively and Only to You...all possible "How To's"...but is ok, Dave, I understand , you are trying to revive your Thread ...it is an interesting issue that needs to be resolved.

My Motors are ALL Pulsed, both ways (Input and Output) without the need to pulse them with any External or additional oscillator-controller...they do it naturally based on their Concept.

I have posted a Diagram here...where I show you the times off are important to allow Radiant In...therefore create "The Effect" you guys want...based on your loose wire on your first UFO Motor...remember?

Your Dead battery acts like a "Non Polarized Super Capacitor" or similar to...when it is creating the effect...then once it "Polarizes Back"(gaining a defined charge)...it looses the "Magic"...

The problem you guys are having...that battery 3 end up charged...will keep happening...since Radiant will charge ANY battery no matter what...it could take longer times...depending on deterioration/status of cells, or "distraction/delay" you guys induce to process by adding loads to batt 3...but it will end up reconditioned somehow...and may not restore it "as new" again...but enough not to produce "The Effect" anymore...

You have Battery 3 connected "favoring" Radiant Flow (which is reversed to hot flow) to charge the two batteries it is connected to ...by adding a pulsed motor or any device that consumes alternatively to B-3...it will excite Radiant Field within the Battery Plates...charging your Main Feed Batteries...and running Motor steadily when in "The Zone"...until it satisfies charge then starts a process of back-flow, crystallizing/restoring the B-3 Cells...then is not good anymore...
Why don't you try to alternate different supply batteries (the two good ones) with a fast switch swap-connect, then using-loading the disconnected ones...and so on, alternating them as they go low...to see what happens...

Hope my understanding/explanation of what I "see" in your set up helps you to visualize what is going on...


Regards


Ufopolitics
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  #1478  
Old 11-14-2012, 11:58 PM
shylo shylo is offline
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Non-Polarized super cap

Once it polarizes back you lose the magic..

Hi Ufo, maybe this is where we need to switch to a new dead battery??
Is there such a thing ??(non-polarized cap)

I have added loads to dead battery thinking it would prevent it from charging but it seems to work against the process??

The extra loads just draw down the charged batteries. Gotta find that balance, it's there somewhere.

shylo
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  #1479  
Old 11-15-2012, 01:55 AM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufopolitics View Post
Hey Dave,
Dave, I understand , you are trying to revive your Thread ...it is an interesting issue that needs to be resolved......

The problem you guys are having...that battery 3 end up charged...will keep happening...since Radiant will charge ANY battery no matter what...it could take longer times...depending on deterioration/status of cells, or "distraction/delay" you guys induce to process by adding loads to batt 3...but it will end up reconditioned somehow...and may not restore it "as new" again...but enough not to produce "The Effect" anymore...
Thanks UFO

Just derail the thread that much more .... Is that your expert opinion?? Based on experience and your extensive knowledge of chemical engineering???

I have to say for starters Dave's worked the very first time he found it... Thats Dave's story anyway and I have not known him for last 4 years, to be a liar.

So obviously if what he says is truth, then there is a way to ensure the battery won't fix and will stay conductive.

Oh ya, for everyone else do not Subscribe to "Magic" as an answer or even a reasonable explanation.

My theory based on TESTING is the battery becomes a semi conductor of some sort. A non Magnetic transformer if you will that performs an electrical polarity shift in both the Voltage and Amperage levels.

As far related phenomena it already exists. The human can perform an electro chemical reaction that does just this. "Bi Polar disease". Nerve created electrical signal flowing backwards in the tissue of the nervous system.

Researchers are currently working on AC to AC converters that are silicon based for high frequency AC to eliminate,limit or reduce EMI in highly sensitive radio communication.

So the Theory I hold has no "MAGIC" in it. This a very real obtainable goal.

To date we have only looked at 1 chemical failure of a battery and that is sulphation. There are from what I can gather 17 different ways a battery can die.
Although all these ways are possibilities we have not looked at the very specific's to AGM's. In fact this information is very hard to find in a publication. What are the specific things that can kill an AGM battery, and what are the signs either electrically or chemically that these things happened.

No matter the cause of it to say Radiant Energy, which is a coined term, is some going to always stump the problem is beyond even understanding what your talking about.
Energy released from transient production does not harbor any special powers. It is well known fact that High voltage pulses melt sulphation in lead acid batteries and recombine oxidation in other types of batteries. Do a search on Battery desulphaters in Google Patents. You should get alot of hits dating as far back as the 1940's. And they all work on the same premise. High voltage, low time pulse.
The combination of transients and normal electricity produce a Highly "Reactive" power that tends to arc and heat at a higher rate than normally generated EM. So this power will have a slightly quicker effect on the process of desulphating. But you can get the effect without transient from almost all Thin Film or Hybrid Thin Film Monocrystalline solar panels. They also produce highly reactive power.

But NO "MAGIC"!!!! NO "RADIENT", Just informed science.

I could go on and talk about passive energy, and its ability to charge not based on polarity but only current. But I won't. Supposedly some of us already know what cold current look like.

So back to the topic. Maybe the battery was not sulphated to death. Maybe the battery sat in the heat and the cold for years before David picked it up. It started out perfectly charged and got forgotten in the back yard.

Raise your hand if your ready obligate to this test???? HUH.. Anybody.

I am not sure if the an AGM can suffer from depolarization from free lead saturation of the fluid or not, but this can happen from shorting a battery out to many times. The lead discharges from the plate because of the rapid current flow. The lead is the crystalline deposit on the positive plates that is responsible for holding the charges.
You wanna do this test???? Get a good AGM battery Short it out with a fat cable. Don't get burned, and drop the thing a few feet. Then recharge it. Until it stops working.

HUH....Anybody. Make sure to were rubber gear when you do this one.

Maybe the fluid is saturated but through another process in which the load was drawn off the negative pole of the battery. This will also strip the positive plate of the battery while the battery is charging, but slowly and try to deposit the available lead onto the negative plate. Well this doesn't work either and sooner or later you wind up with a Black fluid that shorts out the entire battery.
I have seen this is LAB's from running experiments with Tesla Switch's
You wanna do this one???? Let me know I'll tell ya how.

So my overall point here is we need people to not only to be able to collect dead batteries and try them out. We also need people to get educated on how to kill a battery. We need this battery destroyed then tested.
We need people to commit to long term and not just the very basics. We need to read and find a share literature. We need you to understand to understand the Electro Chemical properties of the batteries and how to test them.
We need alot of things, but what we do not need is "Non Measurable", "Magical", Coined terminology, and generally out of this world BS to even enter into this conversation. This is a real world, what happens in it is reality.

So lets get real, and real busy...
Matt
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Last edited by Matthew Jones; 11-15-2012 at 02:04 AM.
  #1480  
Old 11-15-2012, 01:58 AM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LutherG View Post
Hi Matt,

When you have a moment, would you mind posting a quick drawing of how you are scoping your setup? Just a quick hand drawing would do... David mentioned to me that you had some diodes in the circuit somewhere so that you could map the direction of flow?

If it would be enough to just describe what you're doing that's fine - at least this way people that do put a scope on this will all be doing it the same way and we can compare notes...

All the best,

Luther

DC follows a path. The diodes need to let the current flow and at the same time isolate the poles of the battery. When the pole isolated you can look at what is there pretty clearly.
Think about where you put a scope on a monopole circuit to see the spike.

Follow me. It real simple. I'll draw if I have too.

Matt
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  #1481  
Old 11-15-2012, 06:20 AM
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Magic...

Hey Matt,

When I wrote "Magic" was not in order to talk about unreachable things...or against facts or science...sorry, but that was not what I meant...simple, whenever we do not understand an effect we call it magic...Dave had used that word many times here...I know this is a real effect...however, no one has been able to discover it, therefore, be able to work it out and resolve the "riddle"...oops, another word...that you may not like either...

I agree with your theory...however, you try not to accept Radiant within...I do. That is the only difference.

Regards


Ufopolitics
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  #1482  
Old 11-15-2012, 04:54 PM
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When I had my original setup running, I was new enough to this stuff that I didn't know how to test it. My friend, who is an electrical engineer, told me the only acceptable test he would believe is if I put a kilowatt meter on the inverter hooked up to battery three and ran loads on battery three to measure how much actual power came out of the system, and could show more power coming out than was present in the two primary batteries, but this was impossible to do. The reason is, when you have a load hooked up and are running it, the kilowatt meter is continuously counting how many watts of power are being consumed, but the instant the power to the inverter is cut off for even a split second, that reading instantly goes blank, so you have to be watching the meter at that EXACT second. After running for two full days and losing several readings because I was trying to figure out how MUCH of a load I could put on the inverter without drawing the battery so far down that the inverter kicked off, I gave up on this. I kept drawing too much and the inverter would kick off and I would lose my reading. I was incredibly frustrated....mostly because I was running up against a deadline of writing a big check if this thing was real. Now they have meters that hold the last reading in memory. I didn't have one of those.

I then moved to a process where I would charge a 33 amp hour battery in parallel with battery three. I would charge it up until the volt meter showed between 13 and 14 volts (I checked it occasionally to see where the power level was, and anytime it was over 13 volts I would disconnect it and use it). I would then run two auto headlights off the battery until they went out, then connect it to the setup again and recharge it. I did this continuously for seven straight days, because THAT'S all the time I had before I was to meet with the patent attorney in California to discuss the possibility of a patent. I don't know how many times I ran that battery down and recharged it during that seven day period, but I was in that room day and night. I slept on a cot next to the thing and would wake up every couple hours to check it. Since I was going to have to write a check for $5,000.00 to the attorney, I wanted to be damn sure the thing was doing what I THOUGHT it was doing. I was using three 18 amp hour AGM batteries on that setup. Only TWO of them held a charge. so that's only 36 amp hours of power. And I was charging a 33 amp hour battery to full charge. Yet those two auto headlights ran over and over and over again for all seven days before I took the setup apart to take it to California. How many times would YOU have to recharge that 33 amp hour battery off the setup before you were convinced? I know I was doing it several times a day.

As to the attorney, I can give you his name and number if you are interested. I KNOW he will remember me because he told me I was the first person EVER to bring a working "free energy" system into his office to demonstrate it for him. We only ran it for a few minutes because the motor is so loud, but we DID run it. And I did write the man a non-refundable check for $5,000.00. When the thing quit working I was pretty sick to my stomach over that check I had written. By that time, I was back in Arizona. I wrote him a letter of explanation and requested that he refund any unused portion of the fee. He didn't have to, but the guy sent me back (I think it was) $3,000.00 (might have been $2,000.00) even though he had already begun the process of searching for conflicting patents.

So if you want to call and check out whether at least THAT part of my story is true, you can. I don't remember his name, but my wife knows him (as she is in intellectual property law) and she will remember. In fact, she sent me his info a couple weeks ago and I can probably search my e-mail and find it. One way or another, I will get it to you if you are interested. I would certainly recommend the guy after the way he worked with me, that's for sure.

I have had the system working since then too. On several occasions now. I haven't let it run for long periods of time, and I guess the best thing I could do is the next time it is up and running, record two solid hours of video with my big video camera of it running loads so everyone can see it run for two hours continuously until the tape runs out; run devices requiring several hundred watts of power usage during that time, and still charging the primaries.

I texted my wife earlier as to the attorney's name, and she just responded on my phone. It is:
Amir Raubvogel
voice: 650.209.4884
fax: 650.362.1800
amir@raubvogel.com
Currently:
Co-chair of Patent Group at Palo Alto Area Bar Association (PAABA)
Patent Attorney at Raubvogel Law Office
Past:
Patent Attorney at Fenwick & West LLP
Software Engineer at Digital Pictures, Inc.
Patent Attorney at Fenwick & West LLP
Education:
Yale Law School
University of Toronto

This thing is for real. We just need, as Matt said, some folks to get off their butts and help us figure it out....or you can do nothing....

Once upon a time, there was a little red hen who lived on a farm . She was friends with a lazy dog , a sleepy cat , and a noisy yellow duck .

One day the little red hen found some seeds on the ground. The little red hen had an idea. She would plant the seeds .
The little red hen asked her friends, "Who will help me plant the seeds ?"

"Not I," barked the lazy dog .
"Not I," purred the sleepy cat .
"Not I," quacked the noisy yellow duck .

"Then I will," said the little red hen . So the little red hen planted the seeds all by herself.

When the seeds had grown, the little red hen asked her friends, "Who will help me cut the wheat ?"
"Not I," barked the lazy dog .
"Not I," purred the sleepy cat .
"Not I," quacked the noisy yellow duck .

"Then I will," said the little red hen . So the little red hen cut the wheat all by herself.

When all the wheat was cut, the little red hen asked her friends, "Who will help me take the wheat to the mill to be ground into flour ?"
"Not I," barked the lazy dog .
"Not I," purred the sleepy cat .
"Not I," quacked the noisy yellow duck .

"Then I will," said the little red hen . So the little red hen brought the wheat to the mill all by herself, ground the wheat into flour , and carried the heavy sack of flour back to the farm .

The tired little red hen asked her friends, "Who will help me bake the bread ?"
"Not I," barked the lazy dog .
"Not I," purred the sleepy cat .
"Not I," quacked the noisy yellow duck .

"Then I will," said the little red hen . So the little red hen baked the bread all by herself.

When the bread was finished, the tired little red hen asked her friends, "Who will help me eat the bread ?"
"I will," barked the lazy dog .
"I will," purred the sleepy cat .
"I will," quacked the noisy yellow duck .

"No!" said the little red hen . "I will." And the little red hen ate the bread ALL BY HERSELF.

Get the picture?

Dave....Ye old Teller of Fables
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Last edited by Turion; 11-15-2012 at 04:59 PM.
  #1483  
Old 11-15-2012, 08:19 PM
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how can I help ?
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  #1484  
Old 11-15-2012, 09:11 PM
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Dave

Be honest and answer that question : would you discuss all that info with us IF your device was patented, happily running and you were into the commercial development of a for example electric bike system ?
What do you expect ?

Sorry, my english is still poor.
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  #1485  
Old 11-15-2012, 09:22 PM
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I do not think that is the goal for this project now. If for instance it got worked out that we could build a unit that did what the battery is supposed to do, in other words a product, then patent's might be pursued. But the credit and any profit for this would be shared among all contributors.

Dave and I have talked about this thoroughly and you cannot get research money, or start up without provisional patents. Does not mean you cannot open source the research end of it.

But more realistically if we could replicate and open source this there is plenty of room for product based stuff in system forms. Thats why he turned it out to the open source community. There will no loss if it does get running just gain for everyone.

It might have been a different story if it was still working, but unfortunately that is not the case.

Matt
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  #1486  
Old 11-15-2012, 10:58 PM
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boguslaw,
If you have a patent on something...what does that mean? My wife works in intellectual property law and does this stuff for a living, so I KNOW what it means. Here are some of the things you might or might not know about a patent.

1. It protects your rights so that others cannot manufacture and sell your patented device. But if I shared with you how to construct it, you could build your own, (as long as you don't start selling them to make a profit) however, if I disclose that info to TOO many people BEFORE I have a patent (and someone can prove I did), I no longer have the right to try and GET a patent because I have made it "public knowledge" and the line as to how many people constitutes "public knowledge" is VERY blurry. I believe that answers your most important concern. Would I dump the solution on this thread? Sure....right after my provisional patent was filed. Build one for yourself....what do I care?

If I think you are manufacturing and selling MY device, as the patent holder, my patent gives me the right to sue you....if I have the money to do that. First I have to find out you are doing it and then I have to defend my patent by taking you to court. So if Exxon starts manufacturing a look alike device, I have to go up against them and all their lawyers and alllllll their money in court to try and defend my patent. Won't that be fun?? What do you think my chances are, because....

2. If ANYONE challenges ANY PARTt of your patent in court saying it was covered by a prior patent, then YOU must go to court and defend your patent. Failure to do so will void your patent. So if you come up with something good, every major entity out there is gonna haul your butt into court claiming that some patent they dug up is a prior patent of some part of your device, and unless you have incredibly deep pockets, you are dead in the water before you get off the ground. Try to fight off 25 or 30 lawsuits from a major corporation that wants nothing more than for you to give up so they can file on your device.

SO the ONLY intelligent thing to do is file for a provisional patent, which allows you to contact some deep pocket investors who will give you some research money to operate with for a while and try to perfect the thing. Then sell the rights to the sucker before your provisional expires. Sell some kits....go on TV....write a book....Become famous as the guy or group of guys that changed the world. I know better than to think I will ever get rich off this stuff. Not possible. There is too much prior research out there in this area, and they will drag up some patent from somewhere that kills you.

Matt and I have talked about this a lot. I talk to my wife about it every day, and she talks to others in the intellectual property field who fight these kinds of battles all the time.

If we work together and find something, we could file a provisional patent and possibly get some research money or sell the rights to somebody with deep pockets, but to expect to be able to patent a device and defend that patent against all those big boys who want to shut you down? FAT CHANCE!

If you're going to get rich off this it will be because you become famous as the person or group who changed the world. That's it. ....or maybe file a provisional....leak the plans on the internet in a few places...let someone start manufacturing them and become really rich, then sue them for patent infringement. Yeah, that might work!
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Last edited by Turion; 11-15-2012 at 11:15 PM.
  #1487  
Old 11-15-2012, 11:29 PM
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Well said, Dave.
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  #1488  
Old 11-16-2012, 04:35 PM
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Duncan and all,
I think research into batteries, possibly even into dead batteries might be our next best steps. If we are hitting battery three with a voltage that is too low to charge it, or pulses that are too quick, or pulses that are too long or too much time between pulses or SOMETHING that doesn't let it charge, this would be what we want, and would mean we could use a discharged battery instead of a dead one for our potential difference.

So how can we take a potential of 18-24 volts difference and only allow enough of it to get to the battery that the battery doesn't charge. How low does that voltage have to be to not charge the battery? Lets try hooking up some discharged batteries into a charging situation and figuring out what we can do to NOT charge them that still allows us to run our 12 volt motor....or maybe we use a 6 volt brushed DC motor or a 3 volt brushed DC radio shack motor. Possibly using a lower voltage motor will affect the setup, as in the motor will start to run sooner, thereby NOT allowing the battery to begin to charge up as soon, or SOMETHING. I think all of these things are worth a try. And I think a methodical process where we see what different pulse widths with different off times does to batteries as far as charging them is the kind of data we need to accumulate to figure out what direction to go.

I'm going to start looking around for some lower voltage brushed DC motors to see what happens. I KNOW we can find some cheap ones to experiment with and there are some REALLY GOOD 6 volt motors out there that could be used to run loads if this idea has any merit.

By the way, I posted about the 3BGS on John B's new forum and here's what he had to say about the original schematic:
@All,
These diagrams come about from the original Tesla Switch this is something that we used to find potential charge. for example you can move charges with the same polarity.
We could never get anybody to study the results. My German Friend told a story of charging single dry cell batteries by rubbing his Keys across them. I showed him the circuits your working with here, he said it worked every time with a mechanical switch. It had something to do with the sparking, or a single pulse. You could call this a spike of voltage. He worked for NASA and the information vanished one day So I'm sure they got the system working and he never was seen again. People have seen some strange effects from this arrangement providing the batteries were rotating electronically at 10 Hz. when the machine was stopped all batteries were charged to full. The load was set by a single resistor or a 12 volt car tail light.

Dave
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Last edited by Turion; 11-16-2012 at 05:30 PM.
  #1489  
Old 11-22-2012, 07:58 PM
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Thanksgiving Thanks

Just thought I'd take this opportunity to thank all of you who have contributed to what is going on here on this thread. Every tiny bit of information helps and it always helps to know that others have seen the same kinds of things that we have seen and also believe thereis something here worth exploring.

The research goes on, and hopefully we will soon have some things to show you that will start the new year off in the right direction. Take care all, and have a great holiday season.

Dave
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  #1490  
Old 11-22-2012, 10:21 PM
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Hi all

@Turion
I recently had amazing results, I was investigating and I could not repeat it again.
As I posted I have a suspicion that the bad battery was the source.
Courage, we investigated.

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  #1491  
Old 11-23-2012, 04:21 AM
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torpex,

What kind of results did you get? I'm always interested to hear. Some folks have had it run for a couple days and then die.

Dave
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Last edited by Turion; 11-26-2012 at 12:26 AM.
  #1492  
Old 11-27-2012, 01:55 AM
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Had some pretty amazing results today. Will try to make time to take some video tomorrow and post it. Sooooooo close!
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  #1493  
Old 11-27-2012, 08:37 AM
JJUK JJUK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Had some pretty amazing results today. Will try to make time to take some video tomorrow and post it. Sooooooo close!
Great news Dave. Still nothing on my setup I'm afraid but I'm persisting! The dead batteries are VERY dead though so perhaps I'll try slightly less dead ones next.
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  #1494  
Old 11-27-2012, 06:15 PM
wwdotme wwdotme is offline
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Hi Dave

I got some parts together last night to try this set up. For a 24v I used 4 6v energizer lantern batteries (all I had my acid batteries where to dead) a 12v motor out some toy and for my 3rd battery I used a group 31 semi truck battery(whitch is twice the size of a car battery).

I got it to run the motor last night then stopped to reread what you had said in the beginning.

When I hooked everything up this morning the motor did not start and the dead
battery read same voltage as my source 25+ v just a few minutes passed and the motor started and battery 3 started dropping, Motor sped up.

So got that much going, will charge my acid batteries up and use them instead of lantern batteries.
In the mean time I will keep rereading everything to try and replicate what you have done..

thanks Bill
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  #1495  
Old 11-27-2012, 07:34 PM
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Today I have been running the motor on several different three battery setups. On the current one, the primaries each dropped 2 100ths of a volt, but are now holding steady. The third battery gained 2 100ths of a volt, but seems to be maintaining. This is after a 30 minute run. I Will let it run for several hours and report back.

Bill, glad to have you aboard. We need more people working on this.
Good luck, and keep us posted.

Dave
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  #1496  
Old 11-27-2012, 11:54 PM
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Hi guys, I must admit I have not been following this thread for a while but in my research into the Lockridge I have come across something that may apply to your thread Lockridge Device - Peter Lindemann

I believe there may be a small difference in the windings of a PM dc motor but could it be possible that this is also happening in these motors. Universal motors need to be compensated to prevent a high voltage building up in the armature. We are now getting such high voltages in our athat arcs are occurring between the armature and the negative brush. It may be worth a look.
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  #1497  
Old 11-29-2012, 01:47 AM
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mbrown,
We have always known that the motor was making a contribution of power to this circuit. You can see it when you put a scope on the setup. Glad to have your input any time, and it is nice to see that others believe the same.

I had a long run today....10 hours. During that time battery three, which started at a reading of .00 volts also ended with a reading of .00 volts. In other words, we have figured out how to keep a dead battery dead. It was only a matter of time. Of interest to many of you will be this.... With a meter on the battery, the "-" sign would flash on and off on the meter. I tried two different meters and got the same reaction. It was as if the meter were connected with its positive lead on the negative pole for an instant, and then connected correctly. It is our belief (at least I think Matt agrees, since we have talked about it) that, as the motor runs, battery three seems to reverse its polarity back and forth. I did lose 1/10 of a volt on the primaries during this run, but this was with a stock motor. A pulsed motor will perform better and there are some other changes Matt and I have discussed that may improve performance. When we loop the setup, we'll let you know. LOL

Dave
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  #1498  
Old 11-29-2012, 01:57 AM
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Congratulations!

Keeping that battery dead has been the biggest pain. While I could kill the battery so that it would not charge, I ALWAYS destroyed its ability to convert at the same time. Making it useless for the 3rd battery. Way to go!
Randy
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  #1499  
Old 11-29-2012, 10:01 AM
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Good news

It sounds very much like your persistence is at last rewarded!
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  #1500  
Old 11-29-2012, 10:17 AM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
mbrown,
We have always known that the motor was making a contribution of power to this circuit. You can see it when you put a scope on the setup. Glad to have your input any time, and it is nice to see that others believe the same.

Dave
On a perminant magnet DC motor we see a voltage ripple around the supply voltage and some transients as the commutator switches as you know. I don't have the ability to scope anything at the moment, all my stuff was stolen and the motor we are testing is in the US while I am in the far east however I have asked for scope shots and hope I will soon have some.

Effectively all we have is a universal motor with one of the field coils as an output/generator coil and the other (power) field coil is moved from its normal position. This now is a uncompensated universal motor. It is known that the compensation coil was to reduce arcing at the commutator but as we have now got a load/resistance on this coil we have arcing on the commutator. What was not expected was that these arcs are jumping from the commutator to the negative brush and not being drawn out by breaking the contact.

I suspect there may be a difference between the windings of a standard PM motor and the universal motor which is significant as we don't see this on a permanent magnet motor.

It could be the many and complex transformer actions too as the power field coil and the armature are currently being supplied by half wave rectified AC. This was used as a rough approximation of pulsed DC. We have no recovery circuits on it as yet. The motor is also set up in attraction.

At this stage I do not know which if any of the above is relevant but I do know that the armature is set up as a continuous loop of coils and that a form of lap winding is used. There is more than one method of lap winding with some consisting of two separate windings sort of in parallel. I don't know which type this one is.

As the commutator brush slips off one segment of the commutator onto the next there is a period of time where one of the coils in the loop (one under each brush so 2 in all) is shorted through the brush. It is known that this has an effect on the inductance of the whole loop. It is also known that the shorted coil will try to maintain its current flow in through the short until the energy stored in that coil is dissipated but because it is a dead short, I have a question. Is the current in this one coil higher than the rest of the armature? We normally think that this coil has no current in it but inductive kickback tells us that there must be.

Assuming that there is a current flowing through this coil, we have to ask what effects this has on the rest of the coils in the loop?

Now if our two field coils, the motor and generator, are the same number of windings we have a 1 to 1 transformer. If the armature is in series we have a 2 to 1 transformer so we would expect a similar or lower voltage in our output coil but this is not the case, we are getting 5 to 10 times the voltage all be it at a reduced current. It was while we were investigating this that the arcing was noticed which must be in the Kv range to arc the way it does. We are assuming that this is the cause of the voltage gain.

If this can happen in our motor, could it be made to happen in the 3 battery generating system? and what effect would that have on your system?

At the moment, I am not sure of this so any input would be appreciated.
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