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  #1291 (permalink)  
Old 07-11-2012, 06:15 PM
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ehsanco1062 ehsanco1062 is offline
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Hi Matt

I just blow up my second fet by doing the changing of the lines of the driving board so I am out until I will get new fet and I will fixed the problem with the driving board and then hook up the new fet but that will delay me at lest two weeks.
Ehsan
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  #1292 (permalink)  
Old 07-11-2012, 07:24 PM
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I have learned the hard way that ANY kind of wiring error will blow out the DC to DC converter on the driving board, so my first priority is to make darn sure my wiring is right. Then test the DC to DC converter by checking the voltage on both sides of it. Then connect it to a single fet and use that circuit to turn on a light. Once I have the light turning on like I want it to, connect up the transformer circuit. But make sure the board and the fet are BOTH working first.
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  #1293 (permalink)  
Old 07-11-2012, 07:55 PM
Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehsanco1062 View Post
Hi Matt

I just blow up my second fet by doing the changing of the lines of the driving board so I am out until I will get new fet and I will fixed the problem with the driving board and then hook up the new fet but that will delay me at lest two weeks.
Ehsan
How do you know the fet is blown up?

Matt
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  #1294 (permalink)  
Old 07-11-2012, 08:09 PM
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IndianaBoys IndianaBoys is offline
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Testing a MOSFET

Testing a MOSFET

Testing a MOSFET - YouTube

Also,
SCR Tester from a Flashlight
SCR Tester from a Flashlight

"I design and test high power equipment that uses large SCRs (silicon controlled rectifiers). Sometimes one will go out. I use 6 in a three phase bridge configuration and if one goes out, its difficult to find the bad one without taking them all out. You can make a "in circuit" tester out of a flashlight."

Testing Mosfets - YouTube

IndianaBoys

Last edited by IndianaBoys : 07-11-2012 at 08:14 PM. Reason: Add link
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  #1295 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2012, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
How do you know the fet is blown up?

Matt
I simply take Wire from the pose give of 12 v battery and connect it to the drain of the MOSFET and form the source to a 12v bulb and from the bulb to the negative of the battery the bulb lit and it shouldn't lit if it is ok the good one need to switch it on by connect 9vbattery and take the positiv from the battery and connect it to the Gate and take the negative of the battery a d connect it to source the bulb should lit continually and when tuch the source and the gate at the same time the bulb should go of so when I did the test the bulb go on with out drive from the gate.
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  #1296 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2012, 01:01 AM
Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Nope thats backwards

Come out of the HOT of the battery go into the load.
Come out of the load go into the drain.
Come out of the source and go to ground on the batt.

Now connect the Gate to the hot you should come on. Then connect the gate to the ground you should go off.

The way you have it hooked up the gate will 24 volt to turn on and 12 to turn off. Its called high side driving.

Those big old Fets are hard to blow. If you did it we need to find out why and add some protections against it. Can you describe what you were doing when you blew the FET, if its blown?

Matt
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  #1297 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2012, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
Nope thats backwards

Come out of the HOT of the battery go into the load.
Come out of the load go into the drain.
Come out of the source and go to ground on the batt.

Now connect the Gate to the hot you should come on. Then connect the gate to the ground you should go off.

The way you have it hooked up the gate will 24 volt to turn on and 12 to turn off. Its called high side driving.

Those big old Fets are hard to blow. If you did it we need to find out why and add some protections against it. Can you describe what you were doing when you blew the FET, if its blown?

Matt
Hi Matt

I did as you said:

Come out of the HOT of the battery go into the load.
Come out of the load go into the drain.
Come out of the source and go to ground on the batt.

And the light comes on without connecting the hot of the battery to the Gate.
I am sure its blown all I did is changing the code from the code that I have been playing with until I get the values that you said go ahead and use the final code and when I used the final code it happen that the cap keep charging so I had to stop the process otherwise the cap will blow so I turn of the basic stamp from the switch that control the hot that goes to the basic stamp but in the test when I used another channel for the second FET even if I turn the power of the stamp the cap keep on charging so I disconnect the power from the both battery by the switch I have to control the ho of the primaries but the problem is that the FET1 is the one that get blow not the one that I change its channel from the driving board ,that’s exactly what happened

Ehsan
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  #1298 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2012, 10:56 AM
Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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OK sounds like it is blown.

It serial switch between the batteries that is blown right?

I got another arrangement I am trying out today hopefully If I can get it done between batch's of tomato sauce. LOL

If it works out I'll get the info up. So don't order anything yet.

Matt
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  #1299 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2012, 11:10 AM
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Hi all

This is the video before the FET blown and before I change the channel of the second FET you can notice that there was still oscillating on the scop if you concentrate:


scalar charger part the cap dont dumping - YouTube

Ehsan
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  #1300 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2012, 11:28 AM
Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Code:
SW VAR Word
CD VAR Word
DO
  SW = 0
  DO UNTIL SW = 160
    PULSOUT 0, 7500
    PULSOUT 10,7000
    SW = (SW + 1)
  LOOP
  HIGH 1 ' Turn on Cap dump
  PULSOUT 0, 7500
  LOW 1 'Turn off Cap Dump
LOOP
I simplified the code. So try this it should be set.

MAKE SURE!!! Pin one is on your cap dump FET.

Matt
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  #1301 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2012, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
Code:
SW VAR Word
CD VAR Word
DO
  SW = 0
  DO UNTIL SW = 160
    PULSOUT 0, 7500
    PULSOUT 10,7000
    SW = (SW + 1)
  LOOP
  HIGH 1 ' Turn on Cap dump
  PULSOUT 0, 7500
  LOW 1 'Turn off Cap Dump
LOOP
I simplified the code. So try this it should be set.

MAKE SURE!!! Pin one is on your cap dump FET.

Matt
Hi Matt
Thank you for the code but I have only one FET can I use another FET it’s not like the one I use in my tests I just salvage it from TV its 600v 8A?and I have 4 Mosfets they are 900v 5Aand I have three of these Mosfets IXTP50N25T-ND ,I ordered them from digi-key by mistake they are 250V 50A and I still not sure how to test my dc-dc converter but I will try to find the data for it and see how I will test it .
But the question is can we used different kind of FETs on our experiment the scalar charger?
You mean pin 1 one stamp?

Ehsan
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  #1302 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2012, 04:03 PM
Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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The 250v 50 amp will work.

VBSD2-S5-S15-SIP CUI Inc | 102-2098-ND | DigiKey

Thats data sheet. Go the second to the last page it has pinout.

Matt
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  #1303 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2012, 06:46 PM
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ehsanco1062 ehsanco1062 is offline
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Hi Matt
I tried to removed the DC-DC converter to test it out of the board but I couldn't and I am glad I couldn't so I decided to test it on board and it seems that all my dc-dc converter are ok so where is my short?
why I blowing FETs?

Ehsan
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  #1304 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2012, 09:44 PM
Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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That would be a spike...

Remind me again.. Was it the FET between the batteries or the cap dump Fet?

Matt
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  #1305 (permalink)  
Old 07-13-2012, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
That would be a spike...

Remind me again.. Was it the FET between the batteries or the cap dump Fet?

Matt
Hi Matt

It's the FET between the batteries for the second time
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  #1306 (permalink)  
Old 07-13-2012, 01:00 AM
Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Ya its the spikes. Your having the same problem Dave had from running the motor.

Give me a day or 2 and I'll have a solutions. I gotta better switching arrangement.

Matt
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  #1307 (permalink)  
Old 07-13-2012, 07:58 PM
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Hi Matt

That MOSFET the one 250v and 50A is too small I am not sure that it's 50a 250v although the specification said it is 50a 250v this is the part number for Digi-key
IXTP50N25T.
I have noticed that the cap is charging although I switch off the primaries and the battery power the stamp and the driving board I think the short leading to charge the cap but how the cap discharge the small battery?
I should make a switch on the positive of the battery that power the stamp and the driving board so when I don't make test I switch off the battery and there will be no short go to the cap because I think that the cap which discharge the battery !!!
I think it's a good idea for now untill I will find the short .

Ehsan
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  #1308 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2012, 11:52 AM
Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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I'll tell ya what...

Check all the lines in your transformer for continuity.
Set you meter up. Grab one line and check all the other to see if any of them are connected.

If the serial battery is OFF no power should flow even if you have a short. Unhook the serial battery and see if the caps still charge up. If thats the case your caps are charging naturally, no short.

Also PM me your email so I have it.

Also that fet will work for a cap dump. Put a heat sink of some kind on it.

Cheers
Matt
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  #1309 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2012, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
I'll tell ya what...

Check all the lines in your transformer for continuity.
Set you meter up. Grab one line and check all the other to see if any of them are connected.

If the serial battery is OFF no power should flow even if you have a short. Unhook the serial battery and see if the caps still charge up. If thats the case your caps are charging naturally, no short.

Also PM me your email so I have it.

Also that fet will work for a cap dump. Put a heat sink of some kind on it.

Cheers
Matt
Hi Matt

I put the serial battery OFF there is no power at all but the cap is still charging it was 8v befor I discharge it to 0.00 and now it's 0.65v after 2 minutes so I think it's charging naturally I don't think there is no short but I am still checking .

Ehsan
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  #1310 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2012, 01:28 PM
Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Ya this happens. Especially with new caps. The scalar or radiant charge conditions them to absorb environmental charges. I have some caps that will climb to 40 volt or better after running on a given machine for period of time.

There is thread somewhere called "self charging capacitor". You search it and read about the effect.

Matt
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  #1311 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2012, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
Ya this happens. Especially with new caps. The scalar or radiant charge conditions them to absorb environmental charges. I have some caps that will climb to 40 volt or better after running on a given machine for period of time.

There is thread somewhere called "self charging capacitor". You search it and read about the effect.

Matt
Thanks Matt I will look for that thread

Ehsan
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  #1312 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2012, 01:21 AM
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3 batteries with a SG

Hey Guys,
I am sorry if I am stomping on the current theme of this thread, but I refer back to the beginning posts. First, my expertise. Nada. I’m a good builder, but I know little to nothing about electronics and can read schematics and that is it. I am a fanatical tester. Now, here is issue/finding.
Dave, I used your original block diagram with a different twist. I replaced the motor with my SG. For a load I used a 2k inverter. The “Bad Battery” is a badly sulfated battery that will not hold any charge for more than 3 minutes. I took the – of the invertert to the – of the bad battery as diagrammed for the load.
History on that battery-I have tried for days to rejuvenate that old battery with my SG. The most I could get it up to was 14.85 volts and then it would drop down to 12.18 and hold there during charge. After taking it off the SG it would lose it’s charge to 10.85 in about 3 minutes and hold there. So I decided to use it for my “Bad” battery.
I just fried my 2k inverter . I did have a meter on the inverter connection before it toasted, 18.96V in series with that “Bad Battery”. What the heck? I switched on the inverter(no load and watching my meter), it went into alarm(beep), then went silent. Back to Harbor Freight for a new one and new test. How do I safeguard the next inverter so I don’t toast it with this unexpected power? Thanks for any help here.

Randy
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  #1313 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2012, 10:59 AM
Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyoncatcher View Post
Hey Guys,
I am sorry if I am stomping on the current theme of this thread, but I refer back to the beginning posts. First, my expertise. Nada. I’m a good builder, but I know little to nothing about electronics and can read schematics and that is it. I am a fanatical tester. Now, here is issue/finding.
Dave, I used your original block diagram with a different twist. I replaced the motor with my SG. For a load I used a 2k inverter. The “Bad Battery” is a badly sulfated battery that will not hold any charge for more than 3 minutes. I took the – of the invertert to the – of the bad battery as diagrammed for the load.
History on that battery-I have tried for days to rejuvenate that old battery with my SG. The most I could get it up to was 14.85 volts and then it would drop down to 12.18 and hold there during charge. After taking it off the SG it would lose it’s charge to 10.85 in about 3 minutes and hold there. So I decided to use it for my “Bad” battery.
I just fried my 2k inverter . I did have a meter on the inverter connection before it toasted, 18.96V in series with that “Bad Battery”. What the heck? I switched on the inverter(no load and watching my meter), it went into alarm(beep), then went silent. Back to Harbor Freight for a new one and new test. How do I safeguard the next inverter so I don’t toast it with this unexpected power? Thanks for any help here.

Randy
If it was good inverter it would shut off at 15 volt or so. Over Voltage protection.

Matt
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  #1314 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2012, 04:10 PM
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Cheap

Yeah, It was supposed to. I think there may have been volatages that my cheap-o-meter did not pickup on. Also the direction say to hook this lead first then then that one last and a spark is normal. Tells me there is electronics in front of the power switch.

Not having any electronics experience, I don't know how to restrict the system to 15v for the inverter. I thougt the dead battery would do that since it would max out at less than 15v when trying to charge it. Stupid is as stupid does.

I'll throw some 12v bulbs in parallel first to see if that will draw down the voltage, then hook up the inverter. Something different is going on here. This unit has been cold charging just fine for a couple months. Wanted to see if the Tesla Switch configuration would make any difference. It does. After looking over the Tesla Switch patent and a block diagram of the SG, I saw similarities. Just some things missing. Wouldn't it be a hoot if all we needed was a tap into the radiant and the TS configuration to pull it through? In other words, your device, JB's devices, DS device or the many other oscillators out there with the batteries, are the taps and what is needed is the right configuration which has been discoverd over a hundred years ago.

Randy
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  #1315 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2012, 04:19 PM
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Turion Turion is offline
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Randy,
Other than blowing up the inverter, it sounds like you are on an interesting track with those components. I know how it feels to blow an inverter. I couldn't tell you the number of inverters, regulators and mosfets I have toasted over the years. But it sure is fun!!. I have my basic 3BGS back on the bench to play with while I am doing some other things. Now that I finally have my shop organized I have room for four different builds at the same time, and that's what I have going on. Never a dull moment. Good luck with the direction you are taking. You never know!!!

Dave
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  #1316 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2012, 04:55 PM
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Voltage

366v hmmm, I thought that bigger coil might help speed up the charging. It did. Now I know what happened to my inverter. I need to tame this puppy before I toast another one. This dead battery does strange things. Does anyone have any theories as to what the dead battery emulates?

Randy
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  #1317 (permalink)  
Old 07-20-2012, 04:26 AM
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Hi
I am new to this thread and have years of experience with auto batteries and a degree in electronics. I have been studying this thread and emailing Trunion and there a couple of things I might be able to add that might help. One thing when recharging a dead or damaged battery the charge cycle will be different for each depending on what is wrong with it. One thing as I understand what you are doing is using battery #3 as a ground for your run motor. A battery that doesn't have much wrong with it except a real low charge will appear to take a charge very quickly and will quickly try to match the in put charge, but this charge is just what they call a surface charge and will dissipate with out a load in a fairly short time. When a battery loses 70% of it's charge it only drops 1 or 2 volts through the rest of the discharge it loses voltage very quickly. When charging things are a little different... if charged with a high voltage it will charge to a few volts under the max charge level, but it takes an hour of medium or low charge to maximize the charge to a real full charge. Using the good batteries for the run is a good idea, but you need a more reliable linear and predictable ground or electron dump. An appropriated sized cap bank would be better. I have a lot of ideas regarding the use as I worked on a similar system 5 or 6 years ago.
Will discuss more later got to hit the bed right now
Later
Larry
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  #1318 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2012, 04:45 AM
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Larry,
I talked to Luther about this today and both of us are going to resurrect our basic setups again and try out some of this. We are also going to keep working on the setup Matt has come up with as well as keep working with what UFO has been showing us. It all relates, and from all this good information we feel like the answers are slowly emerging. The three battery setup (the original) is so simple I just CAN'T leave it alone...not knowing what I know and having seen what I've seen. So jump in with both feet and let's see if we can figure this sucker out.

Dave
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  #1319 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2012, 02:45 PM
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I always was interested in original setup. For me it would be better even to divide this thread into two separate but related topics.

Just me 2 cents (or 2 grosze in Poland )


P.S. Please forgive me , I don't want to harass this thread with my personal offtopic opinions. I'm not this kind of "paid shills" , rather frustrated man who has 1000 ideas in mind while even one is difficult to realize :-( (being "short on everything" if there is such idiom in English ;-) )

Larry

Please if you would like to answer : what is the reason for battery to become discharged ? John Bedini always stated that battery is a perfect kind of the "dipole", so it should always maintain required voltage level in my opinion....


Sorry for my funny poor English language.

Last edited by boguslaw : 07-21-2012 at 02:54 PM.
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Old 07-22-2012, 05:55 AM
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Turion Turion is offline
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I sent Matt an e-mail about that just a few minutes ago. I have had a lot of PM's asking me for the same thing. Seems there is a lot of interest in just the basic setup and seeing where that can take us. So maybe we will do something like that.

Dave
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