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  #1231 (permalink)  
Old 06-28-2012, 02:08 AM
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ashtweth ashtweth is offline
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Guys , Matt
dont touch this thing with out
Insulating Electrical Gloves

BTW, making progress on this and the Joule ringers will post ASAP

Ash
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  #1232 (permalink)  
Old 06-28-2012, 06:31 PM
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I've been pretty tied up with working on my place for the last week or so, but that will be over on Sunday (after company comes this weekend) and I will be back at it full time. My higher voltage fets should be here today, and I already got my high voltage diodes. I will have six of the switching boards to play with if I am able to make repairs to the two I burned parts out on. Can't wait to at least TRY to fix them.

Dave
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  #1233 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2012, 01:30 PM
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Hi all

Finally I have my fourth diode it's 600v 70A and also I have 500w transformer and after five hours of fighting and straggling I managed to disassembleing it and it's ready to be warped and I start to charge my two batteries one is 50Ah and the ather one is 60Ah to be used as a primaries and I have 7.2Ah SLA battery topper the basic stamp and the power board and I will use another battery 55Ah as alias in series with my 5w automotive bulb and hopefully I will start the test tomorrow .mean will I will double check the wiring , I needs to use many late meters two for the caps to read the voltage Nd one for each primary battery and on for the charge battery so it will be for total five ,I have a scop but I don't hook it to read the frequency can any one help me with that ?

Note :all the batteries I am using exept for the SLA are old and reconditioned with solid state charger.

Good luck to all

Ehsan

Last edited by ehsanco1062 : 06-30-2012 at 01:34 PM.
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  #1234 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2012, 01:42 PM
Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Put your lead on the drain of the serial FET (Between the 2 primaries) and ground on the source of that fet.

I have been messing around with this thing a bit but its been hard the last couple of days, I cut my finger off at work. So... I am dumb ass but that how it goes.

Matt
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  #1235 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2012, 01:04 AM
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This from Toneman. He was having trouble posting.

"I've been following since the beginning and have tested and tinkered. I did switch to the 2 battery set up just to do some simple, quick result tests. One we started with the Stamps and codes this quickly (like a transistor that stuck in off) went over my head and budget. So this is for the guys still playing with 3B's and 2B's;
I noticed that you originally wanted to run your 10 coiler on this system. I'm using a 2B with the negative of my small J.B. PC fan attached to the negative of B1 (this would normally connect to the negative of the Run Battery). The positive of the fan motor ( would normally connect to the positive of the Run battery) attaches to the negative of B2. In other words the PC fan is hooked up backwards and in series with B1 and B2. It wouldn't run if hooked up the way you would think it should.
My thoughts were to get the pulses (start / stop) on B1 to let the re-charge take place without all of the sophisticated electronics.
My motor is a traditionally wound PC fan connected to the positives of B1 and B2.
The split positive motor is running just fine.
The The J.B. PC fan is running just fine and I'm collecting voltage in a cap.
B1 has not lost it's charge after 2 hours.
I have not tried to take any additional loads off B2.

Just thought I'd let you know. Thanks for the ride!"
Tony
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  #1236 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2012, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
This from Toneman. He was having trouble posting.

"I've been following since the beginning and have tested and tinkered. I did switch to the 2 battery set up just to do some simple, quick result tests. One we started with the Stamps and codes this quickly (like a transistor that stuck in off) went over my head and budget. So this is for the guys still playing with 3B's and 2B's;
I noticed that you originally wanted to run your 10 coiler on this system. I'm using a 2B with the negative of my small J.B. PC fan attached to the negative of B1 (this would normally connect to the negative of the Run Battery). The positive of the fan motor ( would normally connect to the positive of the Run battery) attaches to the negative of B2. In other words the PC fan is hooked up backwards and in series with B1 and B2. It wouldn't run if hooked up the way you would think it should.
My thoughts were to get the pulses (start / stop) on B1 to let the re-charge take place without all of the sophisticated electronics.
My motor is a traditionally wound PC fan connected to the positives of B1 and B2.
The split positive motor is running just fine.
The The J.B. PC fan is running just fine and I'm collecting voltage in a cap.
B1 has not lost it's charge after 2 hours.
I have not tried to take any additional loads off B2.

Just thought I'd let you know. Thanks for the ride!"
Tony
Hi Toneman

I am not sure I can follow you can you draw a schematic so we can follow you easily .

Ehsan
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  #1237 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2012, 11:01 AM
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Urgent

Hi Matt

Before I make my first run I noticed that from the block diagram Dave post in his post no #1127 the Fets 2&3 has two wires coming out of their sources one goes to the negative of the battery and the other wire goes to the power board, while in the last schematic you post the updated one in the post No #1211 the fets has only one wire which goes to the negative side of the C1&end of L6 and the other Fet the two wires goes to the negative side of C2& end of L8 there is no wire going to the power board so I am confused which one I should follow ?

Ehsan
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  #1238 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2012, 01:41 PM
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Hi Matt

I have a problem with my photobucket so I change to another program.
These are the schematics I refer to in my previous post.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/88869057/Pa..._Numbers-2.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/88869057/la...e%20update.jpg
Ehsan

Last edited by ehsanco1062 : 07-01-2012 at 01:43 PM.
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  #1239 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2012, 03:48 PM
Toneman Toneman is offline
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Ehsan,
This was just to get the pulse effect on the batteries to know that there was time to gain the recharge effect. Putting the pulse motor in tells me where the stop / start/ happens.
The bad part of this arrangement is the bigger razor motor does not turn. You can hear it click faintly so it does complete the circuit. Substitute another PC fan for the Razor and it will turn. I also tried a much larger AC motor and it will also complete the circuit but will not turn.
I next added a common Radio Shack 12V transformer between the Bedini Fan and A1. I connected the 2 yellow wires for 12V (black unconnected). I took the 2 black wires from the AC side and put them on a standard 120AC to 12VDC wall wart. It gave 2.8 volts on the DC side and will strobe an LED.
I wasn't sure if my Bedini could take 24V so I started with the 2B system. It will take the 3B system so I'm going to play some more. I'm not sure if it's practical for anything yet though.
Tony
Attached Images
File Type: pdf For Ehsan.pdf (80.1 KB, 20 views)
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  #1240 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2012, 05:22 PM
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ehsanco1062,
When in doubt, go with Matt's schematic, not with what I drew up based on it. I probably made a mistake!

Dave
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  #1241 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2012, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toneman View Post
Ehsan,
This was just to get the pulse effect on the batteries to know that there was time to gain the recharge effect. Putting the pulse motor in tells me where the stop / start/ happens.
The bad part of this arrangement is the bigger razor motor does not turn. You can hear it click faintly so it does complete the circuit. Substitute another PC fan for the Razor and it will turn. I also tried a much larger AC motor and it will also complete the circuit but will not turn.
I next added a common Radio Shack 12V transformer between the Bedini Fan and A1. I connected the 2 yellow wires for 12V (black unconnected). I took the 2 black wires from the AC side and put them on a standard 120AC to 12VDC wall wart. It gave 2.8 volts on the DC side and will strobe an LED.
I wasn't sure if my Bedini could take 24V so I started with the 2B system. It will take the 3B system so I'm going to play some more. I'm not sure if it's practical for anything yet though.
Tony
Thankn you Tony
I see what you mean .
Good luck

Ehsan
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  #1242 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2012, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
ehsanco1062,
When in doubt, go with Matt's schematic, not with what I drew up based on it. I probably made a mistake!

Dave
HI Turion

I am still confused if you look at the schematic you will see two Dc - DC converter and I know we have four on the board one is not connected so we should have three on the schematic at the same time we have three optocoupler gate driver on the schematic so we have three optocoupler and two DC-DC converter ?

I make all the wiring ok except for these wires from fets to the board I am not sure about them but I will attached the same block diagram you post it and I remove the wires from the source of the fets to the board I appreciate if Matt and you look at it and make the correction for me .

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/88869057/Pa...bers-2-new.jpg


Ehsan
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  #1243 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2012, 02:20 AM
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Looking at the schematic, I agree that it only shows two DC to DC converters. So something is definitely messed up when you compare it to the block diagram. I thought each DC to DC converter provided power to a different fet, so three fets required three DC to DC converters. It is entirely possible that my understanding of this circuit was wrong. That's probably why I keep blowing things up. Hopefully Matt can take a look and straighten it out.

Last edited by Turion : 07-02-2012 at 03:47 PM.
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  #1244 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2012, 12:23 PM
Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehsanco1062 View Post
HI Turion

I am still confused if you look at the schematic you will see two Dc - DC converter and I know we have four on the board one is not connected so we should have three on the schematic at the same time we have three optocoupler gate driver on the schematic so we have three optocoupler and two DC-DC converter ?

I make all the wiring ok except for these wires from fets to the board I am not sure about them but I will attached the same block diagram you post it and I remove the wires from the source of the fets to the board I appreciate if Matt and you look at it and make the correction for me .

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/88869057/Pa...bers-2-new.jpg

Ehsan
Put the source wires back to the board as drawn. They have to be common. Both Daves diagram and the original schematic have this. You will not switch without it.

In the case of the drawing you can use 2 DC to DC converters. But since you have the driver board you can just use 3 positions on it and an extra DC to DC converter. No harm No foul.

Make sure for the first test runs you power the driver board from a seperate battery. Do not power it from one system as transient may hit the converter and damage the dctodc converter. Later we will add in some safety stuff to stop that.

Matt

Last edited by Matthew Jones : 07-02-2012 at 12:25 PM.
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  #1245 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2012, 04:24 PM
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Tank you Matt
Now I know what to do .
I already put a separate battery for the stamp and for the driving
Board.
Thank you again

Ehsan

Last edited by ehsanco1062 : 07-02-2012 at 05:05 PM.
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  #1246 (permalink)  
Old 07-03-2012, 03:55 PM
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My first run didnt work

Hi Matt
I did my first run today after putting all the batteries out and did all the preparation to run the scalar I even put two switches for cutting the power off the primary battery and when I run the codes for the stamp nothings happen the load bulb didnít lit no change in all the readingno oscillatiing nothing at all so I turn off the scalar and making this post I film the whole proses and I have some picture I didnít want to mess with anything because I donít want to be shock by the high voltage.
Here is some picture

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/88869057/photo.JPG
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/88869057/photo-1.JPG
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/88869057/photo-2.JPG
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/88869057/photo-3.JPG
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/88869057/photo-4.JPG
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/88869057/photo-5.JPG
I will post the video later
Good luck
Ehsan

Last edited by ehsanco1062 : 07-03-2012 at 04:01 PM.
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  #1247 (permalink)  
Old 07-03-2012, 04:14 PM
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Hi Matt
Here is the video

Scalar Charger first run - YouTube

Ehsan
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  #1248 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2012, 10:00 AM
Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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SO your code by default only pulses one time and the pulse is very small. So you need to change a few things.
Code:
SW VAR Word 
SW = 0

DO UNTIL SW = 1 
  PULSOUT 0, 10 
  PULSOUT 10,10 
  SW = (SW + 1)
LOOP
So the first thing you can do is pulse more ....

Code:
SW VAR Word 
SW = 0

DO UNTIL SW = 200 'Or higher if you want.
  PULSOUT 0, 100 'Pulsout longer
  PULSOUT 10,100 'pulsout longer
  SW = (SW + 1)
LOOP
And keep going up until its starts to work.
I am sorry I am not answering right away. I have not got any emailsd from this thread although I subscribed. I do not know whats going on.
Matt
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  #1249 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2012, 10:19 AM
Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Also when the thing runs you should see the results on the scope although it will be very short. So when you run it make sure you look at the scope and see if if you get some pulses.

Matt
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  #1250 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2012, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
SO your code by default only pulses one time and the pulse is very small. So you need to change a few things.
Code:
SW VAR Word 
SW = 0

DO UNTIL SW = 1 
  PULSOUT 0, 10 
  PULSOUT 10,10 
  SW = (SW + 1)
LOOP
So the first thing you can do is pulse more ....

Code:
SW VAR Word 
SW = 0

DO UNTIL SW = 200 'Or higher if you want.
  PULSOUT 0, 100 'Pulsout longer
  PULSOUT 10,100 'pulsout longer
  SW = (SW + 1)
LOOP
And keep going up until its starts to work.
I am sorry I am not answering right away. I have not got any emailsd from this thread although I subscribed. I do not know whats going on.
Matt
It's ok Matt you don't have to be sorry I know you are busy and you have a lot of things to do .
I will follow your instruction and did more test today and I will post all the result I will get and probably vid
Thank you Matt

Ehsan
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  #1251 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2012, 02:53 PM
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Hi Matt

It seems that I made a mistake on my wiring from basic stamp to the drive board and I fixed that so it's running but I couldnt make the cap charge more than 25.1v .
I did go to
SW=600
PULSOUT 0,400
PULSOUT 10,400

So I see the pulse on the scop and reading on cap but there is no charge on the charging battery and the bulb don't lit.
Any farther thing to do to make the cap go to 48v ?
I will post video later
good luck

Ehsan
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  #1252 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2012, 03:46 PM
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Hi Matt

do I have to discharge the caps after each run ?
I have noticed that when i disconnect the loadbulb and make run there will be no pulse !
I still can not go above 25.2v no matter what I change the pulseout and SW values.
I have noticed that the pulse is about 130v on the scop

good luck

Ehsan
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  #1253 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2012, 03:53 PM
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Ehsan,

Discharge cap between runs. That's the only way to know for sure you're hitting 48-50 volts
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  #1254 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2012, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Ehsan,

Discharge cap between runs. That's the only way to know for sure you're hitting 48-50 volts
Thank you Dave but this will be a terrible prosses because I have voltmeter hooked on each cap so I have to disconnect the voltmeter first and then discharge the cap!!
will discharging the cap and the voltmeter hooked on them will damage the voltmeter ?
that will be cool if it dosent.

here is the video:

scalar charger running part 1 - YouTube

Good luck

Ehsan
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  #1255 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2012, 04:44 PM
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Ehsan,
There is no easy way to do this, but what I would suggest is connect two wires to the cap. Connect your leads to the meter to the ends of these wires. Then disconnect the leads and short the two wires together to discharge the cap and reconnect the leads to the meters. You want to short the wires together rather than shorting across the aluminum terminals of the cap or they will eventually burn up. I have no idea how shorting will affect the meters, so I wouldn't recommend leaving them attached.

I think if you read back through Matt's posts he said you might not get above 25 volts with only two batteries. I don't remember the post number for that, but I know it is something he has talked about and he might have even said something about how to get around it.

I will be back to working on this in the next couple days. Have had a couple other more pressing projects. The door down to my basement kingdom finally rotted away from the hinges and collapsed. (It's an outside entrance like a storm shelter) and I have been tearing out the framework and replacing it. Installing a new door and doing some cement patch work, so haven't gotten much done on this project. Both this and my 3BGS are just sitting there driving me crazy. And I had to use a table saw to cut boards. NOT my favorite thing to do!! I was thinking about Matt the whole time.

Best of luck.

Dave
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  #1256 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2012, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Ehsan,
There is no easy way to do this, but what I would suggest is connect two wires to the cap. Connect your leads to the meter to the ends of these wires. Then disconnect the leads and short the two wires together to discharge the cap and reconnect the leads to the meters. You want to short the wires together rather than shorting across the aluminum terminals of the cap or they will eventually burn up. I have no idea how shorting will affect the meters, so I wouldn't recommend leaving them attached.

I think if you read back through Matt's posts he said you might not get above 25 volts with only two batteries. I don't remember the post number for that, but I know it is something he has talked about and he might have even said something about how to get around it.

I will be back to working on this in the next couple days. Have had a couple other more pressing projects. The door down to my basement kingdom finally rotted away from the hinges and collapsed. (It's an outside entrance like a storm shelter) and I have been tearing out the framework and replacing it. Installing a new door and doing some cement patch work, so haven't gotten much done on this project. Both this and my 3BGS are just sitting there driving me crazy. And I had to use a table saw to cut boards. NOT my favorite thing to do!! I was thinking about Matt the whole time.

Best of luck.

Dave
Thank you Dave that help much I will try to find that post of Matt and read it cearfully.
I hope you will be back for the both projects and good luck .

here is the second video:

scalar charger running part 2 - YouTube



Ehsan
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  #1257 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2012, 10:49 PM
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ehsanco1062 ehsanco1062 is offline
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Dave this is Matt's post :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
The point of winding a transformer is to minimize the air space. So try to fill it up with copper. Litzing it will not do that unless you use a very small wire.

No bad Battery. I would put 2-4 good batteries of the same type you would use in the serial portion. This should leave you with some charged batteries if the serial drop to much. Even with one batt it should create a slight resonant's across the windings and the load that will help in the long run.

This thing will not run a huge load either. Thats not the point. We just want to run a small moderate load and maintain charge in the primary batteries for as long as we can. If your batteries are 100 amp hour you will not run more than 5 amp in the load portion.
It will be somewhat of a balancing act. The primary batteries will drop some and hold. If they continue to drop you can lighten the load or adjust the frequency. As the frequencies get charted we will start to increase the load.

If it rains tomorrow I will have time to get mine together (All I need is together just need a little wiring) to start exploring frequency issues. I am hoping I can cover the frequencies needed with the stamp but in case We might have to go with a faster solution. Not sure yet.

It will be a neat thing though have no doubt. I have already seen what this thing will do in pieces of other circuits.

Cheers
Matt

He said we can use 2 or 4 batteries but he didn't said that we should connect 4 batteries in series to get 48v I think he said that because during the long run if the primeries drop much then we have agood bank of batteries to maintain the presses go untill the system compensate the charge back to the primaries.
The question now how to get 48v-52v charge to the cap?
I hope Matt can give us ahand as he always did.

Ehsan
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  #1258 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2012, 03:32 AM
Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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The problem, when you charge a battery is you go from 24 volt to 12 volt. That leaves 12 volt across the primary wire. If you double the wire your going to get something like 22 volt+. But thats not enough.

So the solution is to take out one cap and use 4 wire from the transformer.

But first if you have the parts try to use a full bridge rectifier instead of 1 diode going to the cap.

The one diode might be letting the negative portion of the spike onto the positive pole of the capacitor, Maybe not sure.

But you have it. You see the spikes. They travel at the same time both positive and negative.

Now is the hard part grabbing the power and making it useful immediatly.

But its coming you'll see.

You might also make the pulse bigger than 10. You can try 50, 100, ect.

Your getting there though good work.


Matt
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  #1259 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2012, 03:04 PM
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ehsanco1062 ehsanco1062 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
The problem, when you charge a battery is you go from 24 volt to 12 volt. That leaves 12 volt across the primary wire. If you double the wire your going to get something like 22 volt+. But thats not enough.

So the solution is to take out one cap and use 4 wire from the transformer.

But first if you have the parts try to use a full bridge rectifier instead of 1 diode going to the cap.

The one diode might be letting the negative portion of the spike onto the positive pole of the capacitor, Maybe not sure.

But you have it. You see the spikes. They travel at the same time both positive and negative.

Now is the hard part grabbing the power and making it useful immediatly.

But its coming you'll see.

You might also make the pulse bigger than 10. You can try 50, 100, ect.

Your getting there though good work.


Matt

Hi Matt

I don't have FWBR that can Handel 400v 15A
And if I order it it will take more than 10 days ,I have more than 10 pices of FWBR but it can handel only 4A and maybe 2 pices 6A.
So the next step is to remove C2 and D4 and connect the wire that goes from L7to D4 with the wire that came from L5 to D2 ,and connect the wire from L8 to the wire that came from L6 to the negative side of C1.and did the run and see the result or what?
When I will get FWBR then I will remove D2 also and connect the wires that goes to D2 and the negative side of C1 to FWBR and the output of the FWBR go to the cap C1 is that correct ?
And if you have another instruction or suggestion please inform me.
I tried pulses up to 600

Ehsan
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  #1260 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2012, 05:29 PM
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ehsanco1062 ehsanco1062 is offline
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Hi Matt

I am still waiting for your instruction , I will not make a move untill you will say its ok I don't want to blow things here in the apartment .

Ehsan
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