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  #61  
Old 02-27-2012, 05:32 AM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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Your third battery seems critical, maybe it would be an idea to try and define it.

Things like voltage, how much does it hold? acid SG? etc etc. I am sure this could help
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  #62  
Old 02-27-2012, 05:51 AM
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Thanks for pointing those out. I was aware of your thread on OU but had not been through to that page. I wonder what property it is of a particular dead battery that is helping create this special condition. If we can answer that I would then ask if there is a way to duplicate those characteristics with other components so that we could keep the 'special' dead battery characteristics all the time. Just thinking out loud ... a dead battery would have a particular resistance, capacitance, impedance .... inductance? what else? Maybe this has already been covered in your lab notes. Was their any other unusual conditions in the area of the batteries at that time OR the area the batteries were in? If I recall you said you moved from where the original experiment location. You know that saying in real estate? It's location, location, location... could that have something to do with this? I came across some special map a while back that I had never seen before. I have been trying to recall what type it was as it was not a magnetic field map but it was found that certain experiments would not work in many areas of the U.S. and only in a few areas did they work well. These experiments were what I would call quantum physics and may be related to ZPE, radiant energy or similar. The map was an actual government map but at the moment I can't recall what type it was. Memory sucks at my age sometimes. Rambling is another thing
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  #63  
Old 02-27-2012, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrownn View Post
Your third battery seems critical, maybe it would be an idea to try and define it.

Things like voltage, how much does it hold? acid SG? etc etc. I am sure this could help
I guess we were on the same frequency as I was thinking about the same things and while I was writing my last message you were posting some of the same...
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  #64  
Old 02-27-2012, 06:25 AM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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great minds think alike
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  #65  
Old 02-27-2012, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrownn View Post
Your third battery seems critical, maybe it would be an idea to try and define it.

Things like voltage, how much does it hold? acid SG? etc etc. I am sure this could help
I think that is what we are working towards at this point. Perhaps I have missed something, but I thought what we are trying to do here is figure out what makes one battery work and another not work, so this is widely repeatable on a larger scale.
That is why we are testing so many bad batteries, trying to find ones that work, then figure out why it works, then trying to determine how to make the system work without having to constantly find new bad batteries to use in the third positions.

to me, the ultimate goal here is to find a load/storage (bad battery stand in) that will allow the batteries on the good side to run a motor and power a load, without using any energy out, or at least be able to cycle out a few sets of batteries, so some are running, while others are recovering.

It would be nice if we all had batteries with the same properties to test and mass a huge amount of data, but right now we all have what we have and will make it work
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  #66  
Old 02-27-2012, 02:06 PM
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3 motors

Quote:
Originally Posted by FRC View Post
I want to try a second 3 battery setup and have alternate runs between the two. The last run I did was the best so far. To me it seems that the bad battery that works best is one that will still take a charge but can not retain it for very long. I am also going to try a third motor and maybe even four, also try a different sized motor a long with the one I have been using. Maybe even a PC fan as one of them.

@ Turion, another possibility is running a second motor at the split negatives
at the the same time as the split positives is going. Or is this just a stupid
idea? Will try it to see what happens anyway.

George
Have not tried a second 3 battery setup yet. Did try three identical motors
this time. Adding extra motors is equivalent to placing a load on one motor,
output to load on bad battery 3 increases. This time the only load was a
12v halogen light. I was wrong before about RPM's, they decrease rather
than increase when motors are added. Although it seems that torque gets
better with extra motors, but I could be wrong. I also tried a different sized
motor and was amazed how fast it ran, though the two larger motors decreased in RPM's. This small motor was one I had attached a sort of a flywheel to with heavy (for its size) ceramic magnets on it hoping to make a type of Lockridge/Watson hybrid. Well I was amazed with the free spin time after disconnecting it. The original idea, a year ago, with this motor was to pulse it and have the free spin time continue while the magnets passed coils. Which brings up the notion of pulsing the motor with the basic three battery
setup . Even though things work okay in its present form, pulsing the motor
might serve to extend the runs longer.

Splitting both positive and negative
----------------------------------
This did not work out as well as hoped. This arrangement only slowed down the motors. But applying load to one motor sped up the RPM's on the other motor. Power to the load on the battery also decreased, and it appeared that the good batteries were now being drained. So ended this experiment quickly.

Prior to all these runs, which only lasted about 20 minutes altogether, I had
topped up the batteries with a regular 2 amp charger and had depleted the
bad battery to about 1 volt. After a 2 hour rest battery number 1 was down
.17 of a volt, battery 2 was down .05 of a volt, and battery 3 had only increased to about 5 volts. I think the losses were due to the positive split/negative split combination.

George
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Last edited by FRC; 02-27-2012 at 02:09 PM.
  #67  
Old 02-27-2012, 04:04 PM
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3 motors

Did another run for about 45 minutes using 3 motors again. Using halogen light
for load on battery 3 and adding tail light bulb from time to time. When adding
tail light bulb intensity of halogen would decrease but motor RPM's would increase. Then tried the 3 motors in series instead of parallel. They all ran slower, since all this did was divide the current. Now it seems like I am making battery 3 worse. It only reads about half a volt now. Battery 1 and 2 are down a bit but are recovering. I did the readings right after shutting things down so will check again after a longer resting period.

George
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  #68  
Old 02-27-2012, 04:19 PM
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From what I have experienced, everything works until the plates in the bad battery begin to absorb energy. Then the ability of the system to generate power slowly fades. The reason for this is the potential difference becomes less as the plates begin to absorb. So in order to get it work, we need a continued potential difference. Once that is lost the dipole is closed and you're out of luck. That's why with a totally sulfated battery you can get really long runs. Days long....WEEKS long, as I did the first time. The PERFECT battery is one with NO voltage and so much sulfation on the plates it won't absorb any charge at all. That is where we have the greatest potential difference. Now if we can think of a way to duplicate that, we have it. It's as simple as THAT.

What can we do to a standard battery to achieve this situation. How can we duplicate it without a battery. For instance, a cap gives us the potential difference, and a resister would keep it from charging. Maybe that combination would somehow work. But first, find yourself a DEAD battery with NO voltage in it that will not take a charge, and PROVE to yourself that it is ALL you need for this thing to work like magic. Go find a hundred dead batteries that have been thrown away and test them to get the ones with no voltage. Those are the ones you want to try. Somewhere, somebody will come up with that perfect battery, and then you will see what I am talking about. Until then, the lower the voltage of the bad battery you have, and the less it will take a charge, the better it will work. Maybe even batteries with bad cells. That reduces the voltage but I don't know what it does to the potential difference.

If battery 3 never, ever charges, but you can hook a generator to the motor as a load, isn't THAT good enough? If you can't put much of a load on the motor, but you are able to extract all kinds of energy from battery three, isn't THAT good enough? Well, you should be able to do BOTH if you match the two loads and you have that dead battery in the third position. You are pulling current generated from the motor out of wires connected to battery 3 before it ever gets a chance to charge, so you get 12 volt generated current that you can use to run the inverter forever. You get both of these things until battery three starts to accept a charge, and then everything begins to dwindle.

I also think we are getting the CEMF of the motors sent right back down the wires to charge the primary batteries because of the way we split the positives (or negatives). But that's ANOTHER story.

Dave
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Last edited by Turion; 02-27-2012 at 05:12 PM.
  #69  
Old 02-27-2012, 05:06 PM
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Correction

Bad battery 3 was still hooked up to halogen light when checked. Now that it is
disconnected voltage is rising.

George
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  #70  
Old 02-27-2012, 05:21 PM
plengo plengo is offline
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Amazing system. I read last night about this system and quickly I went to my lab to try out.

I have a few bad SLA batteries to test with. My first setup worked out of the box just like you Turion said and one of the videos shows.

The battery 3 MUST BE DEAD and unable to carry a charge. You are so right. It seams that that battery works as a infinite sink to Battery 1 and 2 and keeps generating energy but since it is unable to hold charge one can use that power into a load.

My setup work best when I put a load on battery 3 (bad one) while the whole thing is running. Unfortunately as you run battery 3 starts to get better and things start to suck energy from B1 and B2. One must keep a large load on B3 to keep it from charging.

Below is my understanding of the system.

Fausto.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 3 battery and motor (Medium).JPG (151.5 KB, 319 views)
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Last edited by plengo; 02-27-2012 at 05:42 PM.
  #71  
Old 02-27-2012, 05:47 PM
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plengo,
That's the setup. You got it right the first time. I'm glad you are seeing some success. Just don't make your runs too long, and batteries one and two will always recover. I don't know how many runs you can make on the system before you have problems with batteries one and two recovering, but I know I have pulled out way more energy from my setup than batteries one and two could possibly hold. My kilowatt meter tells me that, so it's a FACT, not a "belief." And they are still holding their voltage. And it is NOT a surface charge on batteries one and two. I have tested that also..voltage under load. AND I have had the energy produced by my motor hooked up to my energizer for free. So am I producing more energy than the system takes to run? Absolutely, positively, unquestionably, Yes. I need a kilowatt meter that doesn't reset, so I don't have to watch everything so closely, because the minute I shut down, you lose the present run reading. So I always have to write down the reading before I shut it off, and then add it to my total output. But at least it works.

The issue is not what I can do with this system, but what YOU can do. Can you repeat these results? Can YOU find a really good "bad battery" (an oxymoron if I've ever heard one) and make short runs until your kilowatt meter tells you that you have far exceeded the power that two batteries could possibly produce. Then can you make longer and longer runs until you learn to watch the good batteries and kill the power when you see them begin to go down, so you can let them recover. And then how do we make it better.

plengo,

Possibly your solution is the simplest...keep a huge load on battery three, so there is no chance it will charge. I have wanted to try different diodes and resisters, but am trying to get things welded up for my energizer and it's taking all my time away from more experimenting on my setup. Tell your friends and neighbors and let's get more and more people involved in making a working system out of this. The solution is here somewhere. We just have to find it.
Dave
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Last edited by Turion; 02-27-2012 at 06:05 PM.
  #72  
Old 02-27-2012, 05:52 PM
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Plengo

Good to see more members trying this. I just tried another bad battery That I
had tried before. Let things sit with the three motors hooked up for about 15 minutes. Did not have a load connected. When I hooked up the halogen light
everything started up and ran it for about half an hour. Would hooking up the
load just be acting as a dead short completing the circuit?

@Turion, Dave, I am confused here. Is it all right to do a long run of 12 hours.
Or are they supposed to be limited to a half hour at a time ?


Heorge
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  #73  
Old 02-27-2012, 06:19 PM
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FRC,
Unfortunately, there is no good answer to that. I have done runs with batteries in the third position that quit working correctly and the voltage on my two primary batteries started dropping after three or four minutes. I have had batteries that lasted fifteen hours before that same thing happened. I have friends who have had runs as long as ten hours and batteries one and two recovered overnight. You just have to watch those two batteries closely. My first system ran for several weeks and I thought I was going to be RICH!

We haven't done enough experimentation to set parameters that people need to stay within. For instance, what is the MOST that batteries one and two can go down in voltage and still recover? I don't know. I thought I knew, but then I waited a couple extra days and they DID recover. So it would be NICE to say, run your system for X amount of time, or run your system until the voltages on batteries one and two drop to X voltage, but we're not there yet. We NEED to start collecting that kind of data, but is it even meaningful when we are all using different batteries in the third position and it all depends on the voltage and sulfation of that battery? I just don't know. And it is one of the many things about this that is driving me crazy!! The ONLY good thing so far is that other people are getting successful results so I don't have to worry about people thinking I'm a fraud anymore!! THAT is such a relief. I was afraid to even stick my head up again with this thing, but the results we were getting were just to important to NOT let people know there is something here. My main concern with harping on the short runs has been because when I first posted at OU, people immediately jumped into doing these long runs, where of course batteries one and two were drained, and they didn't recover. I want people to see that if you are careful, you can milk this cow forever. But if you milk it until it runs dry one time, you have to get a new cow. (recharge your primary batteries on a conventional charger)
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Last edited by Turion; 02-27-2012 at 06:26 PM.
  #74  
Old 02-27-2012, 06:32 PM
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here is what i did .... i had 2 12v bateries from UPS , they were already connected in series so no worry.

2. i had a black and decker electric lawn trimmer , which has a 12v motor. opened that one from middle and took connections off the cable.

3. i have 2 bad batteries one 12v small lead acid and another 6v lead acid.

connected the circuit as shown all in series .. with motor after the good batteries.

now wait and wait nothing happened , so i am anxious to know what is wrong ..
took out multimeter, hmmm bad battery is blocking the circuit to be completed.hmmmm...

took load of a 12v tail light and connected across the bad battery , the motor starts working ..ok .. simple.. and then i try to put resistance on the motor the light glows back up more brighter .. so it looks simple i have 2 loads battery and light , each of them compensating each other to drain my good batteries....

the electrons will always tries to take the shortest path .. in this case the light and ignoring the battery.. if something else happens i have not seen ..

so it is failed experiment for me .. 2nd attempt with bad battery same results.. but in video i see the bad battery is big .. next time will try those big ones..
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:00 PM
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hello_all

There are a few issues with your setup:
1. If the UPS batteries are not lead acid, they will not receive the CEMF from the motor that helps them stay charged.
2. You need to read my first post that outlines the process for checking a battery for the third position and how to start this system up.
You made mistakes that prevent the system from EVER working. You bypassed battery three to get the system to start. You can't do that. It MUST start without a load on battery three. If it doesn't, you have a battery that is so bad in that spot that it won't work. It could take up to 15 minutes for the motor to start once all connections have been made. If it doesn't start by then, the battery in position three is no good. If it starts immediately, the battery in position three is also not the best for this project, but MAY work if its voltage is low enough and if it is sulfated enough. BAttery three begins the process of drawing in energy, and THEN you add loads.
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Last edited by Turion; 02-27-2012 at 07:17 PM.
  #76  
Old 02-27-2012, 07:08 PM
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I have been playing with batteries for a long time so I kind of do understand their behavior pretty well.

I noticed in my setup that B1 and B2 in series were giving a mere 1ma towards the B3 (bad battery) with the motor in series. That tells me the B3 is really bad and so sulfated that its internal resitance is very high therefore the current that can flow is very small, and indeed 1 ma is very small.

More times passes slowly that 1m goes to 1.5ma and soon 2ma. I noticed that the voltage on B3 is the sum of the voltages on B1 and B2. That makes sense.

Than I added a load to B3 (LED 25 watts light) and the motor ran and current increased to 150ma. That also makes sense since I added a lower resistance path to the flow BUT the voltage on B3 now dropped to 13v and slowly goes up.

That tells me that B3 now is somehow getting a better charge from the more powerful current passing through the LED. Which it should not really but it is. That is where one has to make sure the motor has a load. If you add a load to the running motor in that scenario voltage on B3 rises pretty quickly and current goes up too and so brightness on LED. That does not make sense to me. Why a higher load would create a higher current. I = V/R. Higher resistance from the motor lower should be the current not higher.

Removing the load from B3 I noticed its voltage again rising and current dropping but now current is around 5ma and going higher. That is NOT GOOD. that tells me that my B3 is becoming a good battery which we don't want.

So one must play with the motor and loads on B3 to keep it very high internal resistance and allowing all the power being generated to go to the LED or load.

The magic here is how B1 and B2 are getting higher in voltage too. That is a total mystery. Replacing the motor with a different form of load such as LEDs or lamps did not work.

There is something about the motor and its fluctuation as it runs that causes this effect.

I think what people might be experiencing is the restoration of B3 into a good battery which causes the energy from B1 and B2 to be used up and therefore their voltages to go down for good.

If you keep B3 bad all the time they don't really fall but opposite grow in voltage. VERY STRANGE.

Fausto.
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:28 PM
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Fausto,
Because you are putting meters on this you are seeing the things that we are seeing. You should try putting a scope on the batteries and seeing some of the strange things we have seen. There are lots of things about this setup that don't make sense according to current electrical theory, but as long as it works, I couldn't care less if people tall me it can't. And you are right, balancing the two loads is essential. Trying to figure out a system to do that is one of the other things that drives me crazy about this. So far it's hit or miss, but the more time I spend with it, the better I become at it. The problem is, how do you TEACH that to someone else? If we want people to have successful replications we have to have things that can be replicated. Right now it's kinda like throw a rock in the lake. Somewhere under the water is the target, and if you throw enough rocks, maybe you will hit it. And maybe not.
Dave
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  #78  
Old 02-27-2012, 07:53 PM
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What would happen if

you get thr right bad #3 battery and if as it begins to take a charge and batteries 1 & 2 voltage starts to drop, you connect battery 3 to battery 1. That should result in voltage rising in 1 & 2 and of course in time less energy transferred from #3. That I understand is a bad thing.
But what if you increased the load on the motor drawing more current from 1&2 which then should draw more current through #3, hopefully keeping it in the sweet spot.
What am I missing. It seems this should work to keep all three batteries at their optimal level.
I haven't tried this three battery thing but I will.
Thanks again, this is exciting because it seems to reproductible, does more than just lights and is fairly simple and inexpensive.
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Old 02-27-2012, 08:23 PM
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clueless,
Run a 120 volt generator off the inverter connected to battery three, and a generator off the shaft of the motor. If you can balance them, you have ALL KINDS of power, and batteries one and two will lose hardly ANY charge at all. And they actually GAIN charge when the motor is running at higher RPM's because of the load on battery three. My original system could run that all day and all night. We are not there yet. We are not even able to get people to balance loads at small voltages, and I don't know if ANYBODY has really put a constant load on their motor yet to try and balance with a load on battery three.

The only way to get the motor up to high enough rpm's to have it working as a charger for the primary batteries is to get a significant load on battery 3. But this will DRAIN batteries one and two without a matching load on the motor. So you have to gain enough experience with loads on both to MATCH the loads. I think a couple of people here have seen that.

Too much load on battery three, you drain the batteries. Too much load on the motor, you drain the batteries. When the bad battery gets too much charge on the plates, you drain the batteries. What worked yesterday with the exact same batteries may not work as well today because whenever you are running the system you are working on making battery three a good battery.

Maybe hooking a generator to the inverter off battery 3 and a generator to the shaft of the motor, and the output of both to the SAME LOAD would balance the system. Just one of a thousand things I need to experiment with. And if it doesn't, what to do to make it balance so that as you up the load it remains balanced. That is my ultimate goal. I don't ask for much. World Peace is my next request.
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Last edited by Turion; 02-27-2012 at 08:28 PM.
  #80  
Old 02-27-2012, 08:53 PM
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I have played with batteries for YEARS but I have never seen this effect before. It is so simple and yet amazing.

How did you even thought about that man?

I started thinking what could be the reason this works. It must be because the flow of electricity is not what we think it is. It may be actually 2 flows and one is the hot one and the other the cold.

The hod flow is the one the heat things up while the cold one is the one that really charges a battery more efficiently than the hot one. EV Gray mention that separation once.

It may be that battery B3 (the bad one) being so high in internal resistance only allows the cold flow to go though and therefore converts that into energy BUT it can not readily use it when a load is attached to it.

Because it also does not flow to go through or the hot flow, B1 and B2 do not discharge. To prove this crazy idea all one has to do is measure the current right before the motor - negative terminal of B2 and also right before the positive terminal of B1 - in essence both flows at once. I bet they are different.

Some may criticize me for what I about to say: Once I did that when running an SSG and did get two different current measurements from both terminals of the charging battery - and that was using an analog meter.

Also the motor under load, creates a stronger BEMF (now talking about Peter motor DVD secrets) where higher the load higher the internal resistance or BEMF inside the motor and more power B1 and B2 must pump out to win the race. When doing that and having a B3 bad there it may suck more cold energy towards B3 - causing more output power - while allowing the hot energy to fight back better the Forward EMF from B1 and B2 causing them to not lose power.

I know it is crazy but this whole thing is crazy. I can barely wait to get home and play more.

Fausto.
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Old 02-27-2012, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
hello_all

There are a few issues with your setup:
1. If the UPS batteries are not lead acid, they will not receive the CEMF from the motor that helps them stay charged.
2. You need to read my first post that outlines the process for checking a battery for the third position and how to start this system up.
You made mistakes that prevent the system from EVER working. You bypassed battery three to get the system to start. You can't do that. It MUST start without a load on battery three. If it doesn't, you have a battery that is so bad in that spot that it won't work. It could take up to 15 minutes for the motor to start once all connections have been made. If it doesn't start by then, the battery in position three is no good. If it starts immediately, the battery in position three is also not the best for this project, but MAY work if its voltage is low enough and if it is sulfated enough. BAttery three begins the process of drawing in energy, and THEN you add loads.
the UPS battery is lead acid ,
http://www.amazon.com/APC-RBC2-Repla.../dp/B00004Z6TW

if this is not the right kind which one should i go for?
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Old 02-27-2012, 10:30 PM
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I let my setup run yesterday for close to an hour after I thought bat3 had stabilized, and have noticed that recovery of bat's 1 and 2 is taking a significantly longer time. It is possible that I did eat some energy out of one and two, but I will let them rest for the next few days and see if recovery continues.
Once I have made sure that recovery is done, I will run the test again, and let you know how it goes.
so far, battery 3 is not getting any better at all though. after draining it of the charge it has immediately following the test run, I have been tracking its voltage, and it still wont hold more than 1V, and it wont even run a joule thief as a load. That is encouraging for battery 3 which is a SLAB 12V 5Ah.
I plan on improving my setup with a better motor soon, one that I can load down. Hope to have better data after that

N8
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  #83  
Old 02-27-2012, 10:57 PM
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the cosmic collector schematic mentioned specifically using a brushless DC motor, aka a ECM motor, to generate BackEMF. Perhaps a variable to test is the load as a brushed motor, vs a brushless motor.

my 2 cents
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  #84  
Old 02-27-2012, 11:29 PM
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As long as it is a lead acid battery it should work in either position one or two. It is battery three that is tricky. It has to be a lead acid battery that is so low in voltage it won't start the motor running when you first connect it. But after a few minutes (no more than about 15) the motor should start up. If the motor starts right up, it won't work WELL because it has too much juice (but may work a little.) If the motor NEVER starts up, it won't work at ALL. Don't put a load on battery three until you have tested it to see if it meets these two criteria. (Those are the procedures for selecting a battery for position three I talk about in the first post I made that I am going back to edit right now to be VERY specific.) If it does't meet these two criteria, it won't work for this setup and you will have to try a different lead acid battery. You can try anything you want to play around with it, but if you want one that will do what we're trying to do, it needs to meet those two criteria.

Nasa Nate,
I can already tell you it won't work with a brushless motor, or at least not with any of the ones I have tried to use.

Dave
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  #85  
Old 02-28-2012, 04:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasa Nate View Post
the cosmic collector schematic mentioned specifically using a brushless DC motor, aka a ECM motor, to generate BackEMF. Perhaps a variable to test is the load as a brushed motor, vs a brushless motor.

my 2 cents
I agree with Turion and I think a lot of info in the cosmic collector is wrong or at least suspect. At least for this application you want a brush motor.

I keep trying to think what it is about a dead battery that's able to do this. I also keep thinking a battery acts, among other things, as a diode. But what about a bad battery? I'm wondering if it's like 2 diodes back to back. I've seen enough reference to certain 'magic' in diodes and seeing them inserted backwards (from what you'd expect) to take pause and think about this. In fact one case where the diodes were backwards was the Tesla switch circuit in Patrick Kelley's Free energy book from Electrodyne corp. that supposedly had a 30 HP motor running off 4 vehicle batteries and somehow the batteries were staying charged - not only that but they were said to be climbing as high as 36 volts on a 12 volt battery. BTW I verified this situation with Patrick Kelly that the diodes were indeed intended to be backwards. At one point he changed the to the normal configuration in his book and so I wrote asking him which was correct. He checked into it and the corrected them back to the 'apparent backwards' configuration. I think all diodes also have a small amount of leakage and with this in mind I'm thinking about trying some different configurations with them in place of battery 3 when I get to this. I've got some very high current diodes on hand that should work.
I can see a lot of possible configurations to try. I can see why this might be driving you crazy Turion but just have fun with it. You'll hit the magic combo again sometime or one of us will.
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Last edited by ewizard; 02-28-2012 at 04:21 AM.
  #86  
Old 02-28-2012, 04:25 AM
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BTW Turion I don't know if it was you or someone else but a while back on OU there was someone else doing something nearly identical to this but with just AA batteries. At one point he was saying you had to remove one segment out of the motor where the brushes contact (he had a very small one) but later said it worked without removing it. If I recall he was getting some similar results too.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:00 AM
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If we get the right people interested, they could probably figure this out in their sleep. I will just keep puttering away at it until I have something that works. I have lots of things to try and lots of time to work on it, since this is pretty much my full time job. And I will post anything new that we discover. For right now, I am trying to modify batteries to see what will happen. On the advice of a friend, I have drained a battery and am letting it dry out inside which should cause massive sulfation of the plates. Then we will see what happens when I try to use it after that. I have another battery I have been adding iron filings to and believe it or not, that has increased the time it takes before the battery will start up the system by ten minutes. I have more cells to add junk to.

David
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:11 AM
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Can someone take a scope reading? I am looking for oscillations and what they are throughout the process to see if the results can be explained.

Removing a segment would promote oscillations.

Are we in effect getting a tank circuit?

If there is oscillations what is the peak to peak voltage?
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Old 02-28-2012, 06:18 AM
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I've had a scope on mine several times. Could probably get things back together enough in the next day or so to get a scope back on it again. My space is so small I had to clear off my bench for the welding I have been doing, so have no place to run it right now. What do you want scoped?
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Old 02-28-2012, 02:06 PM
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Just finished a half hour run with my first bad battery that worked. Last bad battery I tried probably was not good to use. Had to hook load to it for the motors to run. Also motors got very hot. With the "good" bad battery motors started right away without load. Output on load was good when attached. Motors stayed cool but eventually did warm up a bit. This is the first time I tried the three motors with this bad battery and the results were good.


George
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