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  #751  
Old 04-12-2012, 09:03 PM
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Ya its one ohm, and no I am not pulsing because some level the inverter is.

If you just hang a load off of one that is somewhat dead you'll kill it for good. LOL

Matt
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  #752  
Old 04-12-2012, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
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Welcome.

Remember this is working thread so, your theories are welcome but you have to go out of your way to work them yourself. Proofs in the puddin.


@All
New video for ya Davids Setup 5
This is the schematic.

https://www.matthewcjones.com/powerB...vidsSetup5.jpg

It hard to explain but give it try and see if it will run stable for ya.

Cheers
Matt
That schematic is really interesting. It is correct that the 3 dead batteries which are in series are tied together (shorted) at the ends? I think I can see some good reasoning and creative genius in that if correct as it tends to keep the middle battery in the condition we want probably. I'd add too that the good battery on the left is hooked up directly to a bad battery in a way that is positive to negative and negative to positive so anyone trying this would want to make sure that bad battery is really bad otherwise you may be frying some cables or even creating an explosive condition in a battery.
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  #753  
Old 04-12-2012, 10:33 PM
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Make sure the bad batteries on the end are dead....? The center one does not matter.
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  #754  
Old 04-12-2012, 11:50 PM
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If anybody is looking to buy a razor scooter motor I got 13% off coupon good for tomorrow. PM me I'll give ya the code.

Matt
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  #755  
Old 04-13-2012, 12:48 AM
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To Matt and all:Update

The golf cart batteries all had dead cells so I left them. I did pick up one commerical truck battery ($13) that was reading 11+ volts and after charging is holding steady at 13 volts even. My other good battery is a small car battery which is at 12.5 volts. I spent 2 days trying to find a similar larger battery; no luck.
I have two larger "bad" batteries one is under a volt and the other over a volt and one a lawn battery that shows 8 volts that won't accept a charge but shows desulphating.
This has been a busy week. I have been looking for a ceiling fan to replace the kitchen light that shorted out due to roof leakage ( 1966 MH). I painted the roof every year until my heart attacks. Plus looking for 14" tires for my car for a trip out of state to visit MIL next weekend and oil change. We both are on disability, both have sleep apnea with oxygen and meds so travel logistics tend to be lengthy.
I'm anal retentive so I bought battery terminals that included the threaded wing nuts as an option and used 4 gauge lawn tractors cables for battery connections. In all I spent almost $50 dollars on wires (12 gauge) and connectors. Probably overkill and may not seem like a lot but when you are on disability it can be. But I wanted to make sure I had enough connectors and heavy enough wire to run the motors and test. At least rule out that part.
I also had to build a bench from scratch on the porch, so testing is limited to days. At least for now.
I have it wired except for the final connections, with the motors mounted, separate wires with terminals in place for different tests waiting on tomorrow.
Two reasons it is getting dark, cold and I'm tired (3 hours sleep last night) and my friend who is a electrician ( to wire in ceiling fan) is coming tomorrow. I want him to doublecheck what I've done. I put in the fans we have now but that was 20 years ago when I was healthy. Sadly I can not do what I once could and a ceiling fan is one.
I should be reporting whatever I find out on this 3 BGS sometime Saturday.
I have to end with a big shout out to Matt who generously helped to provide me with the confidence and ability to do more than post.
Thank you Matt.
And also a thank you to Turion for bringing this forward at a time when it is probably needed as no time in the last 50 years.
-rg
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  #756  
Old 04-13-2012, 01:05 AM
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Matt,
The video doesn't show up. For a while it said unavailable...then "processing"...now "unavailable again.

Have the circuit all built. Will run it in the AM first thing. Need one more piece of big wire and ran out! Lowes, here I come.

Dave
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  #757  
Old 04-13-2012, 02:42 AM
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@ CrystalDipoleMatrix
I have been following your work in the BEL thread, nice to see you here
I happen to agree with you about the crystal cells working with this system. The majority of good results I have see on this system have been with a battery made out of copper aluminum and a 10% alum solution. It works really well, and will never hold more of a charge than 1V on it's own. You can't draw the large loads out of bat3 like you can with bigger batteries, but you can load them with higher loads than they will run on their own.
Very soon I hope to make a few more cells and put them together in this system and see how far this can go with a good load of crystal cells.
thanks for posting the idea

@Matt
I also can't see the video, same thing that Dave saw, just an unavailable message.

Very interesting circuit though, I have everything I need for it except the inverter, which I will probably pick one up on ebay this week and try to get this running on my bench. I look forward to seeing what happens with it


N8

Found this on ebay, wanted to check with you guys and see if it is a good deal and worth picking up...
400 /1200 Watt 12 Volt DC to 120 Volt AC Power Inverter (817375010158) | eBay

I really don't know much about inverters besides what they do, so don't know a good deal when I see one.
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  #758  
Old 04-13-2012, 02:54 AM
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I am re uploading the video, probably morning though.

The thing ran 10 hours total never lost a drop.



Matt
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  #759  
Old 04-13-2012, 03:00 AM
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Quote:
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I am re uploading the video, probably morning though.

The thing ran 10 hours total never lost a drop.



Matt
10 hours
now this I gotta see!
looking forward to the video, and now I am definitely picking up some bigger batteries, a wire wound resistor and the inverter to build this thing full scale.
I was planning to trying to make this work with smaller 12V 7Ah primaries, and larger 12 30+Ah batteries in bat3 position with the inverter, but if you are getting 10 hours runs, this is more than worth spending some money on!
It might take me longer to get what I need, but I am going to build this setup one way or another!
thanks for sharing!
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  #760  
Old 04-13-2012, 03:18 AM
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You ROCK Mr. Jones!

Can't wait to do a run tomorrow. I have it all set up and ready to go. Just have to throw the switch and cross my fingers. All three of my dead batteries are resting at less than one volt.

I'll take down my video camera and set it up on the tripod and let it run until the tape runs out.

Dave
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  #761  
Old 04-13-2012, 04:11 AM
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I am at work right now. I picked up a 1 ohm 25 watt
resistor today. That was all they had. Could maybe put
together some smaller ones to get up to 100 watts. I
was just going to try the pulsing.

What size inverter is Matt using ?

Also instead of a mechanical load, I was getting good results
with the good batteries when running 3 identical motors
parallel at the same time instead of just one. It is in my
previous posts.

George
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  #762  
Old 04-13-2012, 08:59 AM
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Matts' circut

H i Matt,
I'm not sure I understand your circut , the inverter is in series with the motor and good batts, but is it also connected to the pos and neg of the middle battery??

The 3 dead batts are in series, but then the leads are shorted together and connected between the pos and neg of the 2 good series batts???

Also the open gen, it's not tied back into the system???

I'd like to try this but don't have that resistor,are there any substitutions?

Thanks Matt and everyone else contributing there's definately something happening here..everybody should be building and testing.

shylo
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  #763  
Old 04-13-2012, 11:27 AM
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The movie is up DavidsSetup5 - YouTube

Also besides the 10 hours I ran the inverter for another 2 after the system was shut off to help kill my battery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FRC View Post
What size inverter is Matt using ?
George
Its a 410 watt modified sine wave. A 20 dollar Walmart special. Find them anywhere though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shylo View Post
Hi Matt,
I'm not sure I understand your circuit , the inverter is in series with the motor and good batts, but is it also connected to the pos and neg of the middle battery??
The 3 dead batts are in series, but then the leads are shorted together and connected between the pos and neg of the 2 good series batts???
Yep as the open plates at the end of the of the series battery some how recycle some power back into the system. No matter the polarity of the power, it has a path. Because the end batteries are so dead it does not cause a problems as far as shorting. I still cannot find the power but without it the primaries do not stick. You can see an instant response from primaries if you hook it up while its running. Mine popped up a bit.
If you hook it up and you get sparks, STOP. Your batts aren't dead enough.

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Originally Posted by shylo View Post
Also the open gen, it's not tied back into the system???
Watch the movie, I just wanted a mechanical load, but not too much
Quote:
Originally Posted by shylo View Post
I'd like to try this but don't have that resistor,are there any substitutions?
I am sure some one else will know if there is... IT just there to hold down the battery so inverter doesn't alarm I guess I could just use a larger load on the inverter.

I am going to set it up with a new set of dead batteries today and see if it replicates well.
Also going to start cranking up the output.

I have feeling like Dave does if you load the motor and the inverter harder and harder the system will deliver more power and stay stable.

Still don't understand why and I cannot find the power, but I know even in some of my setups to replicate the Benitez Patents as long as you had an inductor between the 2 potentials they would run almost indefinitely. At least way longer than they should have. And this seems to have some of the same effects.

We gotta get this solved soon. I am running outa time to spend on it. So ya'll get your stuff fired up.

Matt
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Last edited by Matthew Jones; 04-13-2012 at 11:35 AM.
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  #764  
Old 04-13-2012, 12:42 PM
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Arrrgh! The movie only plays for 19 seconds! Torture!! Maybe that's because everybody on planet earth who is interested in free energy is watching it.
EDIT: Retried it several times, and it finally ran.... great!!!!!!!!!!!!! It probably was just not buffering correctly, but I waited and waited. It's working fine now though!

I am up at 5:00 AM my time, because I couldn't sleep thinking about this thing! I had to splice two wires together to have enough big wire for my setup, and I wanted to get to Lowes this morning and replace that piece if possible, as soon as they open, so I'd have the whole day to do a run and see what happened.

I hope what I have seen about the loads on the motor increasing the output from battery three holds true here and that the more load on battery three, the more you can put on the motor. If it does, and the system holds steady, I'd say you already HAVE figured it out Matt!

But I will run it today just as YOU did, so we can see how it goes with another replication. Basically I have the same setup as you have except for my wire size. I have number 6 wire instead of the larger wire you have.

I haven't checked the specs on my inverter, but I have a couple of those too.

I do have one question. Not that it really matters, since you are producing all kinds of power out of this, both electrical and mechanical which is being converted to electrical, but did your primaries recover after the system was shut down for a while? I can't wait to run the Razor Scooter motors to replicate, but I REALLY want run my big setup with the larger motor and the two motors as generators. I am a greedy sucker, I know! I may have to run more batteries on the plus side to get enough power to effectively run that 110 volt motor under load. I have always looked at this as kind of a plus side and a negative side, and felt like the two sides somehow had to be in balance for it to be most effective.

Matt, I can't tell you how MUCH I appreciate the time you have put into this. I really feel vindicated after having all kinds of "experts" telling me I was seeing things and that this couldn't possibly be doing what I KNEW it was doing. If you have indeed come up with the working solution for all the problems we have run across, you are going to be a very famous guy some day, and it may not be that far off. Just seeing all the small successes people have been having with this has been amazing, and I know we are on the right track. I think you have proved beyond a doubt that there is something here worth going after. Regardless of the outcome, I will be forever grateful for what you have already done on this.

By the way, according to my calculations, 10 watts on a 12 volt system requires 1 amp per hour. If you ran 10 watts for 12 hours, that's 12 amp hours of usage. Is that correct? PLUS you ran the motor the whole time, you produced power to charge the small battery, and where did the primaries end up? And how many amp hours are they?

Dave
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  #765  
Old 04-13-2012, 01:51 PM
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Matt, that is incredible, and a very elegant solution!
It appears to be running just like the basic 3BGS, but with much higher and more stable output. If that is true, this might now be able to be balanced with large enough loads to turn a motor that is hooked up to a real generator.
I am not sure what kind of motor I would need to find, I will have to look into it, but I do have a gas powered 3KW generator in storage. I have been wanting to find a way to run that sucker for free and collect the power from it.
This is getting beyond exciting, and I can't wait to see what happens next!
thanks for sharing
N8
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  #766  
Old 04-13-2012, 02:06 PM
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A 3kw generator is going to take about 4-5 hp to turn. Not to be the pessimist but you gotta slow your roll a bit.

Just make something small work then start scaling up.

You see it alot in the FE community everyone just tries to jump up to something big. Just work your way up and save your money until you know what to do.

Thats how I do things, and so far it has worked pretty good all though the financial cost of all the iterations add up the results are always better.

Matt
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  #767  
Old 04-13-2012, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
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A 3kw generator is going to take about 4-5 hp to turn. Not to be the pessimist but you gotta slow your roll a bit.

Just make something small work then start scaling up.

You see it alot in the FE community everyone just tries to jump up to something big. Just work your way up and save your money until you know what to do.

Thats how I do things, and so far it has worked pretty good all though the financial cost of all the iterations add up the results are always better.

Matt
Yes, it takes a 5hp motor to drive it.
I wasn't planning on taking it apart today or anything, but it is starting to look like a possible goal for this system.
everything I have built so far has been very small scale, and only now am I seriously looking at running larger batteries and motors. I will very likely always be behind the build curve of this project, because I have a very small budget, and need to be certain of what I NEED to buy for a good replication.
I realize there will have to be some significant scaling up to drive a 5hp motor and keep a steady load on it, but I like the idea this may be possible with this system and enough batteries. Looks like 3BGS might not fit anymore
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  #768  
Old 04-13-2012, 02:57 PM
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I cannot access Matt's website to see the schematic. Can someone someone re-post a copy?
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  #769  
Old 04-13-2012, 03:42 PM
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Dead battery?

Hi Patrick,

I also got some sparks when I hooked it up at first. I realized my batt wasn't as dead as I thought it was. As Matt has said the two end batteries HAVE to be dead. When I drained the batt all the way then I could hook it up ok just like Matt said. After a half hour run I lost some on my primary batts. I am waiting to see how far they recover but they seem to be bouncing right back. I think there may be two reasons I lost power from my two good batts. First off I think the two end batts have to be really dead and not able to charge. One of mine will take a small charge. The other reason I may have lost power on my primary batts is because I didn't have my loads totally balanced yet. I am still getting a feel for this new set up using an inverter and a generator connected to the scooter motor. I have a 90 volt DC motor as my generator and was powering a small 6 watt 110 volt bulb with it. I was powering a 15 watt bulb with my inverter connected to the middle bad batt. Still learning.

Carroll
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Old 04-13-2012, 04:33 PM
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Thank you for the video Matt, much appreciated.

Vtech
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  #771  
Old 04-13-2012, 07:12 PM
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Thats why you need 3 dead batteries so that does not happen.

The schematic is pretty simple to follow and yes there is a DEAD short but most of you are not following why?

The ripple from the motor induces a charge on the outer most plates. Those plates will send power in the primary system but never at the same time because of the ripple. So WALA!!! your recirculate some power back into your system.

If it sparks or heats up the wires the batteries are still hold a good enough charge and can probably be recovered.

Matt
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  #772  
Old 04-13-2012, 07:13 PM
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I cannot access Matt's website to see the schematic. Can someone someone re-post a copy?
Why do you need to access my website at all, I posted the image on the forums. Copy it from here.

Matt
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  #773  
Old 04-13-2012, 08:54 PM
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I could not open the original post but I think it is what minoly reposted. Got it now looking for batteries. Great stuff, hope to replicate.
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  #774  
Old 04-13-2012, 11:44 PM
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Matt,
Spent the entire frustrating day trying to replicate what you have. I had four batteries that each only showed less than a volt at rest, and tried using them as my "wings" on my bad battery. I could never get the inverter to even come on, although it comes right on when connected directly to one of my primary batteries, and works fine. So of course the voltage in the wings climbed because the inverter wasn't running at all. At rest the voltage would drop again. Here's the thing though. If you numbered the three BAD batteries on your diagram 1, 2, and three, starting with the top one, every time I put a battery in the 3rd position and turned the motor on, that battery would flip polarity. I now have THREE batteries that have flipped polarity as a result of today's test runs. And I still haven't gotten it to work. I don't know if they will HOLD that polarity flip, but it happened, and will happen again. I think I will go film it just for the heck of it. I think my bad batteries just aren't bad enough. Both outside batteries climbed to 12 and 11 volts respectively from resting at 1 or 2 volts.

Dave
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  #775  
Old 04-14-2012, 12:34 AM
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Melting Wire Insulation

Quote:
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Thats why you need 3 dead batteries so that does not happen.

The schematic is pretty simple to follow and yes there is a DEAD short but most of you are not following why?

The ripple from the motor induces a charge on the outer most plates. Those plates will send power in the primary system but never at the same time because of the ripple. So WALA!!! your recirculate some power back into your system.

If it sparks or heats up the wires the batteries are still hold a good enough charge and can probably be recovered.

Matt
Matt, when I hooked everything up per your schematic, I noticed a small spark when I hooked up the wire from the negative of bad battery 2 to the last negative of the good batteries. After it had been running for a while, the jumper cable insulation from the positive of the first bad battery to the negative of the middle good battery, it started to melt. Also, battery acid was boiling out of bad battery number one. That never happened before! I disconnected and studied the circuit again. I tried again, but this time, I didn't hook that wire up. I think my mistake was that the negative wire from the inverter goes to the negative of the last good battery. This wire does not connect to the bad battery AND the good battery. This time everything was cool. There was no overheating.

Since my inverter is pretty picky and wouldn't run as your schematic shows, I used a fan in its place. The fan would speed up and slow down all during the run. My primary batteries would remain at a certain level until I added more motor load. It would then fall to meet the added load, but would rise when the load was decreased.

It was a good run. Thanks for posting the schematic and all your hard work!
Tony
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  #776  
Old 04-14-2012, 03:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Matt,
Spent the entire frustrating day trying to replicate what you have. I had four batteries that each only showed less than a volt at rest, and tried using them as my "wings" on my bad battery. I could never get the inverter to even come on, although it comes right on when connected directly to one of my primary batteries, and works fine. So of course the voltage in the wings climbed because the inverter wasn't running at all. At rest the voltage would drop again. Here's the thing though. If you numbered the three BAD batteries on your diagram 1, 2, and three, starting with the top one, every time I put a battery in the 3rd position and turned the motor on, that battery would flip polarity. I now have THREE batteries that have flipped polarity as a result of today's test runs. And I still haven't gotten it to work. I don't know if they will HOLD that polarity flip, but it happened, and will happen again. I think I will go film it just for the heck of it. I think my bad batteries just aren't bad enough. Both outside batteries climbed to 12 and 11 volts respectively from resting at 1 or 2 volts.

Dave
Take the resistor off. Make sure you have 10.5 - 15 volt on batt 3 before trying to turn it on.
I used the resistor to hold down the voltage under 15 volt. But if you don't need it don't use it.

Matt
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  #777  
Old 04-14-2012, 12:08 PM
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Turion Turion is online now
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Matt,
Thanks. I'll give that a try this morning. Or SOMETIME this weekend.

Thinking about you pulsing that resistor across battery three and your comment that the inverter was basically doing the same thing, I kept thinking of someone here on the thread who was getting good results (I think) using a DC motor as the load on battery three, which would be doing the same thing wouldn't it? I can't help but wonder if we have a Razor scooter motor running a generator splitting the positives and a Razor scooter motor running a generator off battery three, would our loads then be balanced? And if we could tie the output of the generators into a single "demand" then as that demand increased, it would increase on both equally, or perhaps we will discover some ratio of the demand on the motor splitting the positives vs the motor tied to battery three that keeps the system in balance, and use the microprocessor to control that ratio somehow.

I guess my real question here is, would a motor in place of the inverter accomplish the same purpose, and would the mechanical output be of more benefit than what we are able to run off the inverter? I know I'm getting ahead of myself as I still don't have my setup running, and I know you might have already thought of this, but I wanted to make sure we don't overlook that possibility. It's something Luther and I discussed way back months ago when he first suggested putting a resistor across battery three and we were talking about how to balance the loads. And here we are, needing something across battery three to open and close a circuit. Whether a motor does it too quickly would be my major concern. I have a spare Razor scooter motor setting around, so once I get my system up and running, I will substitute it for the inverter and see if I get the same kind of results, assuming I get positive results in my replication in the first place!

By the way, if you watched the video I emailed you a link to, and it is correct, I could post it as a tutorial of how to connect up your circuit for those having a problem. Unless of course it is WRONG, and then obviously I am the one who is having a problem!!

Dave
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Last edited by Turion; 04-14-2012 at 12:12 PM.
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  #778  
Old 04-14-2012, 12:16 PM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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I guess anything is possible Dave. But a DC motor on the 3rd battery won't pulse. The scooter motors don't pulse they just ripple the current.
But maybe some switching might be in order. I am going to try to get away from the motor altogether. But I have not got it all worked out yet.

I got a bigger setup going:

DavidsSetup6.AVI - YouTube

But it turned into a bust in the end, I think all the heat got me. Before I got the camera, I had gotten the inverter running and the primaries started to climb in voltage. But went up only a bit and started dropping off again.

I personally think it was heat, but I don't know. I was neat for sure.

Matt
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  #779  
Old 04-14-2012, 12:35 PM
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Did you have a chance to look at the video? Did I have it wired correctly?

Your video is awesome. Kinda proves the point that you can increase loads on the inverter and on the motor as long as they are balanced. But balancing them is going to be the
b_ _ch. Can't wait to see what happens with bigger motors.

I always felt like this system had some potential if we could ever get it figured out. With the load you were running, you shouldn't be able to run it but for a few minutes before the batteries are DEAD! LOL. That's pretty exciting man!

Of note: At the bottom of the page there is a box that says "Current active members viewing this thread" and it lists the number of active members and their names, and how many guests are viewing. I always check that out to see who is looking at the thread and whether or not they have posted here or are just lurking. The really interesting thing is that once in a while it will say there are (example) 10 active members viewing, but only show 9 names. It always makes me wonder who that mysterious individual is who is a member, yet their name doesn't show up on the list, although they are viewing the thread???

OH, as for getting rid of the motor!!! LOL. That is what Luther has been saying for a while now! I know he is working on something, but he won't share until he has it all worked out and running. He wants to test it and make sure it works first. I swear the two of you think so much alike it's scary sometimes!

Dave
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Last edited by Turion; 04-14-2012 at 01:08 PM.
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  #780  
Old 04-14-2012, 02:55 PM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Ya your system was alright. I think you either had too much voltage on the dead battery or too little to start the inverter. 10. - 15 volt is the norm.

You won't see my name down in that box. I have that turned off. thats why you have 9 outa 10

Matt
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