Energetic Forum  
Facebook Twitter Google+ Pinterest LinkedIn Delicious Digg Reddit WordPress StumbleUpon Tumblr Translate Addthis Aaron Murakami YouTube 2020 ENERGY CONFERENCE - PRE-REGISTER NOW!!!!

2020 Energy Science & Technology Conference
PRE-REGISTER NOW!!!
http://energyscienceconference.com


Go Back   Energetic Forum > >
   

Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

* NEW * BEDINI RPX BOOK & DVD SET: BEDINI RPX

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
  #4831  
Old 06-25-2019, 03:29 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
I have room for more, so I am going to look at that.

Have you built a rotor WITH iron shielding and one WITHOUT iron shielding around the rotor magnets to measure the difference in coil output? I ask because adding iron shielding basically increased the diameter of the rotor magnet which means you can have FEWER magnets on the rotor. If there IS a gain from using magnetic shielding it is going to be x amount per magnet pass times a number of magnets vs a smaller output times a larger number of magnets. Which gives the most output? I don’t know. I really can’t afford to build two rotors to compare the difference.

Also, it doesn’t have to be 24 magnets or 12 magnets. It can be any even numbered amount.
Here is an example of the magnet covers I use to make them impact
resistant. This is the thickness I use and here are the benefits.

$5 per foot

https://mysteelyard.com/product_info...ducts_id=11274

negligible as far as space is concerned. Once in all side projecting
fields are pushed out front where we want it. There are some examples
on youtube where magnet rotors having upperwards of 20 have shields
and magnets4less only has a cheap refrigerator magnet junk pile.

Once pressed in you can and should leave a few thousandths sticking
out then the outer surface of the shield can be wildly ground rough tp
a point of distortion to receive a greater epoxy contact and holding
power. Much better. What is even more important for your application
is that the magnets all having shields would increase the holding power
probably 50%

The most important use is when you want magnets close together so
their fields are out front and not over lapping. It is a harder task that
you may be tempted to stay away from even though it might produce
double the output.

here is what I know, when bring a block of steel near my shield-less
magnets at the bloch wall they spin around and snap right on at a
distance of 1/4".

With shield the same block of steel has no effect and does not respond.
No magnetic pull sitting right on the bloch wall, nothing, it's all out
front and man is it ever strong where it is suppose to be.

__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 06-25-2019 at 03:32 AM.

Download SOLAR SECRETS by Peter Lindemann
Free - Get it now: Solar Secrets

  #4832  
Old 06-25-2019, 03:41 AM
Turion's Avatar
Turion Turion is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,475
Videos

I am going back and finding old videos on my phone to post to YouTube. NONE of them were made to give out information. None were made to share with YOU. Most were made to share specific things with Matt or with my machinist about issues as we developed the generator. Some of the videos show inputs, and some show outputs. Some may show BOTH. Remember, as I begin posting these, they are EARLIER versions of the generator. Many were BEFORE I figured out speed up under load or magnetic neutralization.

You will see many, MANY mistakes as I learn what things like amps and volts are, and how to really measure them. Remember, I was a school principal for crying out loud! The only electricity I knew how to work with was AC, and only enough about circuits to wire a house without getting myself killed. You will see me measuring the AC output of the coils with the meter set on DC. You will see me trying to measure amps with no load, or whatever. Am I embarrassed? Nah. Too old for that crap. I make mistakes. I move on. I try to give you the truth as I know it. AM I always correct? NO. But what fun would it be if I was always right? Then bi would have nothing to complain about!


https://youtu.be/l4Rjh0w3SuY
https://youtu.be/K-ofPZCBUak
https://youtu.be/ZwfcVr4dWOc

The next video I am about to post shows the machine running on 36 volts and drawing 18 amps with only HALF the coils in place. It is SIGNIFICANT that I can now run the same motor on 24 volts at 12 amps with ALL TWELVE coils in place, don't you think????

https://youtu.be/A3DakXN-cR8
__________________
“Advances are made by answering questions. Discoveries are made by questioning answers.”
—Bernhard Haisch, Astrophysicist

Last edited by Turion; 06-25-2019 at 05:31 AM.
  #4833  
Old 06-25-2019, 06:34 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
I am going back and finding old videos on my phone to post to YouTube. NONE of them were made to give out information. None were made to share with YOU. Most were made to share specific things with Matt or with my machinist about issues as we developed the generator. Some of the videos show inputs, and some show outputs. Some may show BOTH. Remember, as I begin posting these, they are EARLIER versions of the generator. Many were BEFORE I figured out speed up under load or magnetic neutralization.

You will see many, MANY mistakes as I learn what things like amps and volts are, and how to really measure them. Remember, I was a school principal for crying out loud! The only electricity I knew how to work with was AC, and only enough about circuits to wire a house without getting myself killed. You will see me measuring the AC output of the coils with the meter set on DC. You will see me trying to measure amps with no load, or whatever. Am I embarrassed? Nah. Too old for that crap. I make mistakes. I move on. I try to give you the truth as I know it. AM I always correct? NO. But what fun would it be if I was always right? Then bi would have nothing to complain about!


https://youtu.be/l4Rjh0w3SuY
https://youtu.be/K-ofPZCBUak
https://youtu.be/ZwfcVr4dWOc

The next video I am about to post shows the machine running on 36 volts and drawing 18 amps with only HALF the coils in place. It is SIGNIFICANT that I can now run the same motor on 24 volts at 12 amps with ALL TWELVE coils in place, don't you think????

https://youtu.be/A3DakXN-cR8
Cool little machine, so compact and lets see 36vdc X 18amps = 650watt
approx. You could run six 100watt bulbs right Bi? A principle?
No wonder I been feeling like I am being sent to the office so many
times. the principles office is the scary place

All seriousness set aside I think you standing in front of that
rotor without a guard has me on pins and nettles over here. I guess
you were right about mistakes but it is lots of fun to watch your
early stuff. What people don't know cause they ain't old as us is
how Tesla books were around in the 60's when we were kids and this
is when they all went in the dumpster at our school. Even as a boy I
had the smarts to go out back and dig those books out.

They painted Nick to be a mental maniac in the newspapers with
drawings of electrical probes sticking out of peoples heads as a
health cure. During the mid to late 1900's there was so much
conflict with the subjects he wrote about. I went to the principles
office and asked if the Tesla books would be replaced that were
pitched in the trash. He said no, that these subjects were outdated.

I was 14years. I was sad about it. I would spend long hours reading
those books learning the material and then nothing replaced it. In
later years starting from 14 whenever i went to a school library or
a college library I never found a single Tesla book. Still to this day
I am in disbelief.

Thank you for these special video's based on Tesla's work that has
always been dear to my heart.

Yes quite significant that the neutralization magnets have cut down
the amp draw to less than half of 648watts.

I am a firm believer in the neutralization part. All North's for me.
__________________
 
  #4834  
Old 06-25-2019, 06:59 PM
bistander bistander is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,708
Magnet d vs L



You rarely see (don't know if I ever have) generator or motor magnets with thickness greater than the sq rt of face area, or in this case, length greater than diameter. I'm not sure what you use for design criteria, but if you run through this calculator for flux or pull force, or repelling force, for various thickness (L) values, you can figure point of diminishing returns, or in other words, paying for PM volume which doesn't do anything good.
https://www.kjmagnetics.com/calculator.repel.asp

Also, in that diagram, the .5 dia x .25" thick magnet in the middle will serve better if it were iron or steel.

bi
__________________
 
  #4835  
Old 06-25-2019, 07:07 PM
Pot head Pot head is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Nunya
Posts: 350
Most interesting thought, please explain your mind sight as you are seeing it in action.
Thanks bistander.
__________________
 
  #4836  
Old 06-25-2019, 07:48 PM
bistander bistander is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,708
Mind sight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pot head View Post
Most interesting thought, please explain your mind sight as you are seeing it in action.
Thanks bistander.
Simple. Why don't you see long bar magnets used in commercial generators and motors? What attribute is enhanced by using a 3/4dia x 3" long magnet over the 3/4dia x 2" long, or 1" long magnet?

Turion said a few weeks ago it was the magnet mass which matters. Sometimes that is true (certainly in the price). But not so much for the attributes (flux, force, etc) in all cases. Maybe for a 3/4" dia magnet going from 1/8 to 1/4" thick makes a big difference. But 3" thick?

But then I have no idea why he chose that.

bi
__________________
 
  #4837  
Old 06-25-2019, 09:42 PM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,174
Bi gets a star on his forehead and not sent to the office, Right?
Bi you are being goated into going off the handle as you love
so well.

What are you talking about, round and square , thick and thin.

What about speed up? Did you do a coil that speeds up?
__________________
 
  #4838  
Old 06-25-2019, 11:30 PM
Turion's Avatar
Turion Turion is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,475
Magnet mass

The mass of the magnet determines the flux created in the coil. But every coil has a limit to how much flux it is capable of accepting during the time of the magnet pass. Whether a two inch thick magnet will create more flux than a 3/4 inch thick magnet is yet to be determined. So FAR I have tried 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and 1” thick magnets. With each version I got more output. I made the decision to skip a few steps and go straight to a 2” magnet, and would have gone to 3" if I could find rotor material thick enough. There is a chance there will be no more flux that with a 1” magnet and I will have wasted my money. Since this is the LAST version of this generator I am building I made the decision to take that risk. Folks can do what they want. And based on past performance, nobody is going to build a replication anyway. The one thing I was hoping to see was being able to increase the speed without reducing the output. Because iron cn only fill at a certain rate, you are in danger of passing the core before it has absorbed the magnet flux from the passing magnet, so there are lots of things to be tested with this machine. As I have stated before, it works, but it may not be Army material yet ("Be all you can be")
__________________
“Advances are made by answering questions. Discoveries are made by questioning answers.”
—Bernhard Haisch, Astrophysicist

Last edited by Turion; 06-25-2019 at 11:56 PM.
  #4839  
Old 06-26-2019, 12:26 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
So FAR I have tried 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and 1” thick magnets. With each version I got more output. I made the decision to skip a few steps and go straight to a 2” magnet,
Magnets strenghth
2" X .250 = 50lb
1" X .250 =25lb
1" X .500 =50lb
1" X 1" =100lb
1" X 2" =200lb

Roughly, give or take generalization, I know you have .250 so is this
the thickness you normally used in your smaller magnet tests or were
some of them thicker? My 1/2" X 1" = 50lb

I think core dia is 3/4" right? or are you using 1"? Maybe you tried 2"
but that depends on material.
__________________
 
  #4840  
Old 06-26-2019, 02:01 AM
Turion's Avatar
Turion Turion is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,475
Magnets

I started with 2” x 1/4
Went to 1” x 1/4 but twice as many
Went to 1” x 1/2
Went to 1” x 3/4
Went to 1” x 1
Went to 3/4 x 1” but more magnets on rotor.
Decided 3/4 was minimum diameter I wanted to try.
__________________
“Advances are made by answering questions. Discoveries are made by questioning answers.”
—Bernhard Haisch, Astrophysicist
  #4841  
Old 06-26-2019, 02:19 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,174
I would be interested in the 1" X 1" rotor magnet build since
these magnets have twice the strength of your 2" X .250.

24 magnets on a 12" rotor? If so that rotor would offer 4X the
flux or better of your thin 2" ones but like you say it depends a lot on
cores too.

Gaps make huge difference I noticed with my 50lb magnets. A 1/4" gap
barely did much. I went to 1/8" then a tiny smaller and wow wee did that
speed up great. I think you use 1/8"
__________________
 
  #4842  
Old 06-26-2019, 04:09 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,174
Duration is the time it takes for the core material to pass over the
magnet. Mine is bottom right.

Also the frequency of the impulse coming off the big magnets is lower
and the 24 magnet rotors would be many times that. The duration of
the 2" magnet is 2X that of the or the 1" magnet

http://flyer.thenetteam.net/3batterygen/magcore.jpg
__________________
 
  #4843  
Old 06-26-2019, 05:32 AM
Turion's Avatar
Turion Turion is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,475
Air Gap

The air gap makes an INCREDIBLE difference. I am using 1/16 air gap on current machine/ With machine tolerances that can be reduced.

ALL the numbers I have EVER shared were from My first machine with six of the 2" x 1/4 magnets running at 2800 rpm with a 1/8-1/4 air gap. I couldn't GET it any closer than that. Coils were 3 strands of #23 each 800 ft long. 12 coils

With a machinist's help the CURRENT machine has 12 of the 1" x 3/4 magnets on it running at 3800 rpm with a 1/16 air gap. Coils 24 strands 125 feet long of #23. 10 coils. I'm real sure the new machine will bow my big one out the door. And I REALLY want to build that last one I have talked about.

Got a project up on the bench tomorrow, and it works, I am afraid I am done here. I won't be sharing that, and I won't have time to waste on this anymore. I have given everything I can here. Now it is up to people to build it or don't.
__________________
“Advances are made by answering questions. Discoveries are made by questioning answers.”
—Bernhard Haisch, Astrophysicist
  #4844  
Old 06-26-2019, 07:16 PM
Turion's Avatar
Turion Turion is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,475
bi,
I was perfectly clear that there HAS always been a heat issue with my generator. I have warned people MANY times that you cannot run magnets past rotors with iron cores for more than about 20 minutes without melting the coils. I have a very large container filled with used copper wires because the coating melts off the wires and the coils short out. I have replaced a full set of coils twice now, which, at about $700 a set, is over $2,000.00 worth of wire. One of the reasons I have NO machine put together when I actually have 3 different versions of the machine is because I cannibalized the coils out of other machines just so I would have ONE machine with coils. THAT machine is at the machinist having work done, and then additional work to implement the water cooling system i recently came up with. That requires removing the cores from every coil and putting the cores all back in with LONGER cores. After which it WILL be independently tested. To insinuate that I haven't built the machine is idiotic. I have shown dozens of videos of it running. To ASSUME I have a problem I cannot solve so am trying to get others to do the work for me is also idiotic. How many people are going to spend the money to REPLICATE my generator? NONE. My hope has ALWAYS been that they would build a simple one coil machine and test to see if the concepts are TRUE. Once they KNOW the truth, there is no going back.

My machinist is one of the FEW people who has seen this machine actually running and has measured inputs and outputs. He does all my machine work for FREE now because he wants to build and SELL these machines to all the people he knows from the marijuana clubs to power their grow lights off the grid since I released all the info on this machine to the public domain. His business is G-Force Machining and his number is 408-472-7381. It was through HIM that I got the machine tested at the independent lab, and he was there for the testing. He can tell you all about it. His business, as I have said before, is in Santa Clara, CA, which is a long drive from my home. He can also verify that he currently has my machine sitting in his shop, just as I have said.

I had hoped that ferrite or metglass cores might solve the heat problem, but have always had concerns that their ability to absorb and release the flux quickly would negate the speed up under load ability of the coil. And while I do not WANT the coil to cause the motor to speed up under load, I DO want it to allow the rotor to free wheel with no drag on the motor because of Lenz. There is a possibility that even with ferrite cores you could increase the capacitance of the coil ENOUGH to get the effect simply by adding a capacitor in parallel to the coil, as Tesla suggests in his patent. This would allow EVERY coil to have the capacitance to display the delayed lenz effect. This is something I want to experiment with when I have TIME.

I don't blame people for having doubts, but at this time I simply do NOT have everything together to show you what you want. I could demonstrate the impact of a single coil or even a coil pair on the amp draw and rpm of the motor, and show that the magnetic neutralization effect neutralizes the amp draw and allows the original rpm. I could demonstrate the output of a single coil or a coil pair and that it does not change the rpm of the motor when put under load. But you would have to take my word for it that when all 10 or 12 coils are in place (depending on the machine) they all exhibit the same reaction. I could demonstrate the output of a coil or a coil pair, but you would have to trust that the five or six coil pair would EACH put out the same amount. What the difference is between trusting that all those things would be true and trusting that the machine does what I say it does, I really do NOT understand. Even if I showed all that, the machine I would be using to demonstrate is my coil tester, and does not have as many magnets on the rotor, nor are they as thick as the ones in the current machine, nor are the air gaps as tight. ALL those things contribute to the efficiency of the generator output exponentially. Ask the guys here how many watts they are getting out of the coils they have built that are similar to mine. You don't HAVE to take my word for it. Then look at the size if their rotors, the size of their magnets and the gap between rotor and coil. Ask them, or build one YOURSELF.

In your opinion, this is all a fake. In my opinion, you are an idiot. One of us is RIGHT.

There are folks here who have replicated the magnetic neutralization. They KNOW it works. There are folks here who have replicated the speed up under load. They KNOW it works.

If you can turn a rotor at a specific rpm with a motor and the introduction of power producing coils causes NO increase in the amp draw of the motor and in NO WAY affects the rpm of the rotor, just keep adding coils until you get whatever output YOU WANT. It is not rocket science. Any of you who truly WANT to can prove BOTH of these concepts with a single rotor and a single coil. You do not have to replicate my machine. If you do not have enough interest, money or time to do THAT LITTLE, then I have no compassion for you AT ALL because you are not truly a researcher. You are a whiner who wants everything given to you, and I won't do that.

Skywatcher has built a rotor. He will soon see if I have told the truth or not, and once you KNOW the truth; once you have seen it on your own bench, NO ONE can convince you otherwise.

Doogy,
You asked why I would abandon this if it were for real, or why I would leave it in my shop. I worked for TEN YEARS on this project with the idea that it would solve many of the problems of people all over the world. All I wanted out of it was enough money for my wife to retire and to have the income we have now. I saw this as a way to make that money, and I had EVERY INTENTION of patenting it. I contacted patent attorneys and had meetings with attorneys. In one meeting there were THREE different attorneys representing patent law, business law, and intellectual property law (which is also what my wife does). The patent attorney is also an electrical engineer. I did a demo of my machine for the three of them. If you want their names, I can provide them too.

I had individuals representing investors come to my house so that I could demonstrate inputs and outputs without disclosing how the machine worked. I almost took the step of forming a corporation to apply for a patent so that we could solicit financial backing and form our own company.

But then I made the decision to release all of this on the forum? Why? For two reasons.

One, I believe it is important that this information gets out there because this machine is SIMPLE ENOUGH that anyone anywhere in the world with access to a junk yard can build a working version of it once they understand the basic principles. As long as they can come up with magnets somehow.

Two, would YOU feel bad selling someone a flintlock pistol as the "latest technology" when you had a 9mm Glock in your trunk? I would.

There is not a statement I have made that I have not verified on the bench. It isn't difficult to test these concepts with a very simple build. Those who want to claim this isn't for real and are too lazy to do the work to verify one way or the other deserve EXACTLY what they have now. NO working machine. Those who DO the work and build a simple one coil machine so they can put these concepts into practice and actually TEST to see if they work will reap their own reward. And they are welcome to contact me any time. My eMail address is dvd.bowling@ gmail.com

Adios
__________________
“Advances are made by answering questions. Discoveries are made by questioning answers.”
—Bernhard Haisch, Astrophysicist

Last edited by Turion; 06-27-2019 at 06:49 PM.
  #4845  
Old 06-27-2019, 04:51 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,174
Thanks Dave beautiful expose of people who just complain and are
unable to trust. I trust you Dave. You are one of the few. I have been
able to tell what people are like in their first few sentences for a number
of years now. Some have an open mind and some have a close thought
process. The reasons vary.

I have demonstrated magnet neutralization in video form. I have given
a demonstration of coils that speed up under load. To realize that with
these two concepts would allow a person to build an O.U. machine takes
a person who has done some generating conventionally.

Even someone who has borrowed a gas generator in a power out knows
that the more things you plug into it the more gasoline it takes. it is
common sense which many folks do not have.

So when you show a way to get power without increasing the drive
motor input the bell should ring in our ears. For those who can't see
this probably can't change the oil on a car or replace a tire without
going to the shop. These type of individual want and take the cushy
jobs, do what they are told like robots never questioning. As long as
they keep their wives happy, their bosses happy and go to Easter
service they feel they are the elite class.

To get them to understand that everything they have is a cheap lie
and that the truth is still out there, is impossible. It would be like
trying to explain to a transgender that they were born spiritually Bi.

Void, zero, empty

This is a no win, no hope class of programmed stoners with no
conscience.

Then there are the few who exhibit the many fruits of the spirit, receiving
freely and building on the instructions you have given. We thank you for
your perseverance and dedication. This makes it worth it all. Yes we must
defend the tittle. It is a mighty claim and awesome achievement of a
lifetime.

Michael Rowland

Here folks can contact me

mrowland55@embarqmail.com
__________________
 

Last edited by BroMikey; 06-27-2019 at 04:58 AM.
  #4846  
Old 06-27-2019, 11:33 AM
Doogy2Shoes Doogy2Shoes is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
bi,


But then I made the decision to release all of this on the forum? Why? For two reasons.

Two, would YOU feel bad selling someone a flintlock pistol as the "latest technology" when you had a 9mm Glock in your trunk? I would.
What do you mean?
__________________
 
  #4847  
Old 06-27-2019, 11:10 PM
Turion's Avatar
Turion Turion is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,475
Outdated tech

The generator is outdated tech, which is why spending time on it just to PROVE stuff to people drives me nuts, although I DO still want to build one final version just to incorporate everything I have learned.
__________________
“Advances are made by answering questions. Discoveries are made by questioning answers.”
—Bernhard Haisch, Astrophysicist
  #4848  
Old 06-28-2019, 02:39 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doogy2Shoes View Post
What do you mean?
Saying one is locked and loaded MEANS he is always ready, I always
say I was born ready goodie2shoes.

Turion

It was hot today. Staying cool inside gets me drilling holes on a project.
The index is 130+ Oh and I really look foreword to this year as my
machine will be up and running.
__________________
 
  #4849  
Old 07-10-2019, 03:13 PM
Turion's Avatar
Turion Turion is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,475
About charging the battery with pulses...... theres is a pulsing frequency where the impedance of the battery goes to a minimum and THAT is the frequency where the most charge is accepted. When the charge is NOT accepted, the charging pulse is WASTED. When a couple volts or an amp are the difference between success and failure, those things make a difference. (For Lithium ion cells this ACCEPTABLE charging frequency is in the tens of kilohertz range) That is one of the reasons the Matt motor is REQUIRED in the circuits we have shown. Run on the correct voltage it pulses at the frequency we want. I keep saying this is not rocket science, but you DO have to pull your head out and listen to what we say once in a while.

By the way,doesanyone KNOW what that correct frequency is for Lead Acid batteries? Or have you all just been bobbing around in the dark taking your best shot at having anything that works. Research. It is amazing what researchers USED to know that we have all forgotten.
__________________
“Advances are made by answering questions. Discoveries are made by questioning answers.”
—Bernhard Haisch, Astrophysicist

Last edited by Turion; 07-11-2019 at 03:03 PM.
  #4850  
Old 07-12-2019, 03:49 PM
liber63 liber63 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 56
Hi Dave!
You are so right about the right frequency. As far as I remember the right frequency for lead acid bats would be around 100 hertzs. But it's a long time since I 've read that. I may be wrong. So at 2600 rpm/60, x 2 pulses per revolution, with Matt' s motor = around 100. Am I right?
__________________
 
  #4851  
Old 07-14-2019, 07:05 PM
NROC NROC is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 23
Battery Impedance

Dave has made a really important point about battery impedance here.

If any of you actually want to understand why pulse charging batteries is so useful look up something called Randles model of batteries. The point is that you have 3 to 4 components that the model uses to describe a battery.

Two resistors and a capacitor

Just watch this 4 minute video of it being explained as its easier to understand than reading it here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uy1xhi4KDrM

Some versions of the model include an inductor as well. In electrical engineering this set of components looks a bit like a filter and if you sweep the frequency response of it you will find that the impedance of this set of components changes depending on the frequency.

There are 3 important parts for us with impedance spectra - the part where the capacitance dominates, the part where the inductance dominates and the part where the impedance goes to minimum (not zero) just the lowest possible value it can have. Sometimes this minimum impedance can net you an extra 10 maybe even 20% better charge acceptance than you would get by just using straight DC. For lithium ion batts straight dc charging and pulsed charging have roughly the same efficiency of around 85% charge efficiency. For lead acid batteries it can be quite alot better than straight dc charging. (Dont ever use HV pulses on a lithium ion battery as you will destroy it, make sure you use high current pulses at around 14.4V.)

The thing with short transient voltage impulses is that they are made up of a large amount of different frequencies that can go through a system, and they can do all sorts of interesting stuff for lead acid batteries. In engineering we would call this shock excitation of a lead acid battery, it doesn't just ring a single frequency in the battery it rings all of them coupled with how many times you pulse it. If you have a little time between impulses it gives time for the charges to be dispersed back into the electrolyte.

Understanding batteries should be really important to anyone who is actually serious about getting these types of systems to work

3bgs with Matts Motor and Daves gen, Tesla switch, Basic free energy device, Benitez, SG and others

Since improving the charging efficiency of a lead acid battery is useful to be able to get extended run times you should really know about it and use it all the time.
__________________
 

Last edited by NROC; 08-12-2019 at 10:00 PM. Reason: spelling and grammar
  #4852  
Old 07-15-2019, 04:29 AM
Turion's Avatar
Turion Turion is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,475
Quote:
Originally Posted by NROC View Post
If any of you actually want to understand why pulse charging batteries is so useful look up something called Randles model of batteries. The point is that you have 3 to 4 components that the model uses to describe a battery.

the impedance of this set of components changes depending on the frequency.
IMPEDANCE: The difference between success and failure with the 3 Battery system. FREQUENCY: How fast the motor needs to turn to give the battery the correct pulse. If you add the boost module so the pulses hitting the charge battery are 14.5 volts, it allows you to run the modified Matt motor and recover better than 80% of the energy you used by charging battery 3. If you turn a lenz free, magnetic drag free generator, and make up for your losses, the rest is yours to do with as you will. A three coil generator will MORE than prove the point. You don't have to replicate my big machine. Bob French and I are working on a little prototype that he will show you when it is done. I am still working on getting my bigger machine put back together between remodeling projects. Probably another week before that happens.
__________________
“Advances are made by answering questions. Discoveries are made by questioning answers.”
—Bernhard Haisch, Astrophysicist
  #4853  
Old 07-18-2019, 09:43 PM
Pot head Pot head is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Nunya
Posts: 350
I have been purposely silent waiting.
I am gathering the parts for my rebuild.
It will be documented here but I wish to print a book so it will be time consuming.
I share credits on ideas I use from members in the proposed book.
If it’s used I write something like,”bistander suggested using a left handed stem bolt wrench”.
Excellent work Dave Turion and anyone else in on the build.
__________________
 
  #4854  
Old 07-18-2019, 11:12 PM
Turion's Avatar
Turion Turion is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,475
Rotor Tour

https://youtu.be/VTPZ4qGDP5A

This should give you some info on rotors. Hope it helps. .
__________________
“Advances are made by answering questions. Discoveries are made by questioning answers.”
—Bernhard Haisch, Astrophysicist
  #4855  
Old 07-19-2019, 07:07 AM
Turion's Avatar
Turion Turion is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,475
Thermodynamics

Please realize that I understand a battery is "DEAD" at around 12.2 volts. Some of what follows is to simplify the explanation.

Some folks would have you believe that when you hook up an electric motor to a battery, the energy stored in the battery goes into the motor and is converted to mechanical energy and some heat, and the motor will run until the battery is “discharged.” By discharged, they mean empty of energy, because the electrical energy has ALL been converted to mechanical. According to modern theory it MUST all be converted to mechanical energy right? Because there is very little or NO energy left in the battery according to the meter, and since it can’t be “created or destroyed” it MUST have been converted to mechanical energy. The voltage or energy in the battery goes down as it is used up, until there is so little left that it is not enough to get the motor to run. Some motors might shut off when nine volts are left in the battery. Some motors might shut off when three volts are left in the battery. What is left will depend on the motor. Result? Empty battery. At least according to current electrical theory.

But what if they are incorrect? What if electricity acts more like water? What if the energy in the battery is all on (for example) the positive plates? There would be a difference in potential between the plates with ALL the energy, and those with none. This is a difference your meter would measure as over “12 volts.” Now if you let the battery set long enough, it will run down. Did you ever wonder WHY? Did the energy “escape” from the battery when it ran down? Was it all converted to heat? Did the energy elves sneak in at night and syphon it all out of the battery? Or is it still there. If energy cannot be destroyed according to the “Laws” of Thermodynamics, what happened to it? What did it get “converted” to. The electrolyte in the battery is the WORST conductor of electricity that anyone could come up with that would STILL CONDUCT well enough to create a circuit. It establishes a weak pathway for the electricity that has been FORCED onto the plates on one side of the battery to make its way to the other empty set of plates in the battery, equalizing between the two. And now your meter registers “0” because there is no difference between the two sets of plates until you “charge” up the battery and force the energy all back to one side. When we connect the motor across the charged battery, that SAME energy simply runs THROUGH the motor and out the other side to the negative plates until BOTH sides of the battery are equal because you have provided it with a PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE in the copper wire of the motor, as compared to the weak electrolyte. Once the two sides have equalized, there is NO current flow, even through almost ALL of the energy is still there. It has just been EQUALLY distributed between the two sets of plates inside the battery. This theory would explain why the reading on the meter goes down just as well as CURRENT theory does.

If the battery is empty, and not capable of running a motor, what happens when I connect the negative of the "dead" 12 volt battery and the negative of a small 1.5 volt battery (that I have run down) and then put my motor between the positives of the two batteries? It won't run directly off the dead 1.5 volt battery. It won't run off the dead 12 volt battery. But it WILL run between the positives of the two batteries, because the energy in the large battery that was 12 volts on one side is now six volts on EACH side in the big battery, and the difference between this six volts and the dead 1.5 volt battery is a big enough potential difference for current to run FROM ONE BATTERY TO THE OTHER, and THATS ALL IT TAKES to run the motor. It doesn't "USE UP" electricity, it runs because of the movement of current. Wanta rethink how electricity REALLY works? You SHOULD.

Let the whining begin.
__________________
“Advances are made by answering questions. Discoveries are made by questioning answers.”
—Bernhard Haisch, Astrophysicist

Last edited by Turion; 07-19-2019 at 07:11 AM.
  #4856  
Old 07-19-2019, 08:34 AM
BroMikey's Avatar
BroMikey BroMikey is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
https://youtu.be/VTPZ4qGDP5A

This should give you some info on rotors. Hope it helps. .
Pretty cool rotors.
__________________
 
  #4857  
Old 07-20-2019, 03:10 AM
SkyWatcher's Avatar
SkyWatcher SkyWatcher is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,419
Hi all, hi turion, wow, great information, thanks for sharing as always.
peace love light
__________________
 
  #4858  
Old 07-20-2019, 02:25 PM
Turion's Avatar
Turion Turion is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,475
Explanations

In my last few posts I just gave the the explanation for WHY the Matt motor is so critical to making the 3 battery system work. I explained WHY it is SO important to pulse a battery at the correct frequency. And NO COMMENTS from any of the “experts” who have “debunked” the 3 battery system by doing replications that did NOT include the Matt motor (and therefore did NOT work). You are all so willing to build it incorrectly and then give your “expert” assessment of how it can’t possibly do what I say it does. And I told you WHY it wouldn’t work (no Matt motor) but you disregarded my explanation. I hope the information on battery impedance opened some eyes.

And now I have given a theory for HOW electricity works and WHY the 3 battery system works that flies in the face of known electrical theory, and still no comments????? What’s wrong guys? Cat got your tongue? Don’t want to tell me how little I know and how WRONG I am? I’d love to hear it, because I happen to know a few folks who probably have MORE credentials than anybody here who have bothered to actually TEST this stuff instead of relying on their “expert opinion” who just might have something to say on these topics.

I would bet you a whole lot of money that they will support my position that batteries must be pulse charged at the CORRECT frequency to get the maximum CORRECT charging effect, and without it you WON’T get the extended run times we have talked about.

I bet they will also support my position that the load (motor in the 3 battery system) does NOT “consume” the energy or convert all the electricity running into it to mechanical energy. That is a FALSE assumption of modern electrical theory. The motor operates because of movement of current. That’s IT. And there ARE losses in that process because of resistance, etc, but NOWHERE NEAR what we have been taught. It’s time to wake up. What we gave you with the three battery system puts you on the road to free energy. It’s a hard, rocky road filled with potholes, but boy is it worth it.

And when you can run a Lenz delayed no magnetic drag generator on a system that gives you BACK almost ALL of the energy you put into it, how can you NIT gave a system that is COP>1
__________________
“Advances are made by answering questions. Discoveries are made by questioning answers.”
—Bernhard Haisch, Astrophysicist

Last edited by Turion; 07-20-2019 at 02:30 PM.
  #4859  
Old 07-20-2019, 03:17 PM
bistander bistander is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,708
Comments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Please realize that I understand a battery is "DEAD" at around 12.2 volts. ...
Hi Turion,

For starters, your understanding of "DEAD" is wrong. When the OC voltage at rest measures 12.2V, the SoC is about 40%.



From: https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/...tate_of_charge

As for the rest of your theories, it is the same old misunderstanding you've been preaching without proof. I don't particularly want to argue. Been there done that. I was hoping I could quietly watch while you interacted with dragon and finally demonstrated your machine with proper instruments.

Regards,

bi
Attached Images
File Type: jpg voltage-band2.jpg (63.6 KB, 239 views)
__________________
 
  #4860  
Old 07-20-2019, 03:21 PM
Turion's Avatar
Turion Turion is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,475
Here we go again

bi,
You nit pick what you KNOW you can discredit, and ignore everything else that makes you look like a fool. Yes, I know a battery is not completely DEAD at 12.2, buy YOU know you should not discharge a battery below 12.2 because it is harmful to the battery. You always want to argue the little details so you can make yourself look like the expert. But it is the concept where you fall on your face.
__________________
“Advances are made by answering questions. Discoveries are made by questioning answers.”
—Bernhard Haisch, Astrophysicist
Closed Thread

Tags
save, system, generating, battery

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Please consider supporting Energetic Forum with a voluntary monthly subscription.

Choose your voluntary subscription

For one-time donations, please use the below button.


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v1.4.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.8 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2007-2015 Copyright - Energetic Forum - All Rights Reserved

Bedini RPX Sideband Generator

Tesla Chargers