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  #4771  
Old 06-04-2019, 09:39 PM
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Question

Have you thought about magnet arrangement
like my tiny rotor but on a larger scale?
How to get that kind of extra energy from your build?
Would it be beneficial or draining?
I suppose another day will work.
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  #4772  
Old 06-05-2019, 01:13 AM
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I have no basis to compare the output of a machine with a standardrotor vs a rotor like yours, so I canít really comment. If I havenít seen it running on my bench I hate to speculate.
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  #4773  
Old 06-05-2019, 11:53 PM
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Hello Turion,

You have made rotors with 2 inch diameter magnets and you have made rotors with 1 inch diameter magnets (also much more) however just with these 2 diameters with all else being equal was the delay effect noticed at different rotor speeds with respect to these two different diameter sizes?
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  #4774  
Old 06-06-2019, 12:41 AM
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Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
I have no basis to compare the output of a machine with a standardrotor vs a rotor like yours, so I canít really comment. If I havenít seen it running on my bench I hate to speculate.
I obtained the graphite powder.
If you have a way for me to look at some photos of your builds and arrangements of your layout, I wish to study it to give you a different perspective, maybe I can help?
I am no spring chicken in this field.
My intent is to help you build a newer/friendlier rotor with extra access for more power generation than before.
I have noticed drag is beneficial when the output is over 1.65% of the input.
With lenzlessness comes an escape of drag but the percentage drops when rpmís increase.
That is just an observation from me.
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  #4775  
Old 06-06-2019, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pot head View Post

I have noticed drag is beneficial when the output is over 1.65% of the input.
With lenzlessness comes an escape of drag but the percentage drops when rpm’s increase.
That is just an observation from me.
What do you mean by "the percentage drops when rpm's increase"?

I have posted many videos of my machine with all the information about how it is put together. It works just fine the way it is, and I see no reason to change it. Using coils like yours would be difficult for my machine since magnets on the face of my rotor interact with the coil rather than magnets on the end of the rotor.

Netica, there IS a difference in the required rpm when you have 1" magnets vs 2" magnets, which is why I said I believe that whether or not you get speed up under load or not is determined by how fast each individual magnet moves from the position where it begins to interact with the iron core to the point where it is centered over the iron core.
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  #4776  
Old 06-06-2019, 03:29 PM
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Hi Turion,

Yes, as best as I can estimate the rotor speed difference should be around 1/3 slower when using the 1 inch magnet rather than the 2 inch magnet, because there is 1/3 less distance to travel for the magnets to reach the centre point from when they start to interact as you have said.

Would it be correct that you have found that the difference in RPM is indeed around 1/3 slower when using the 1 inch magnets instead of the 2 inch magnets with all else being equal?
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  #4777  
Old 06-07-2019, 01:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
What do you mean by "the percentage drops when rpm's increase"?

I have posted many videos of my machine with all the information about how it is put together. It works just fine the way it is, and I see no reason to change it. Using coils like yours would be difficult for my machine since magnets on the face of my rotor interact with the coil rather than magnets on the end of the rotor.

Netica, there IS a difference in the required rpm when you have 1" magnets vs 2" magnets, which is why I said I believe that whether or not you get speed up under load or not is determined by how fast each individual magnet moves from the position where it begins to interact with the iron core to the point where it is centered over the iron core.
Turion, I meant my stuff.
I can only refer to what is in front of me.
You may be sore from others but Iím not going there to harm you.
Maybe take a shot of whiskey and some girlfriend time.
Outdoor grill on a nice breezy day.
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  #4778  
Old 06-07-2019, 05:19 AM
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Netica,
I can't honestly answer that question. The required rpm went from 2800 to about 1900 when I switcher to the smaller magnets, but I went from three strands of 1000 feet to 12 strands of 250 feet with four connected in series....so three wires coming off the coil...at the same time. That makes it tough for me to say for sure which was responsible for the decrease or what % each change was responsible for.


Pot head.
Rum and coke. Several of them. Until I feel no pain.
Dave
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  #4779  
Old 06-07-2019, 06:36 AM
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Hi there again Turion,

Your help with getting a good understanding of this is much appreciated. Am very grateful for all the insight that you are giving.

Ultimately you have said that you have used this as a motor generator by pulsing the coils for a part of the time when the magnet passes the coil core and the rest of the time being used as a generator. I am wondering if when you changed to this configuration it helped at all with the overheating problem of the core.
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  #4780  
Old 06-07-2019, 07:06 AM
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Heating

Netica,
I don't have an answer to that question, but I would assume NOT based another test runs I have done with a pulse motor running the thing.

Matt designed a circuit to use the coils as both a motor coil and a generator coil, and I built it. At the time, I had not yet discovered the solution to magnetic neutralization, so the motor was drawing a massive amount of amps. Anyway, there were two switches in the design. One to turn the motor off and the other to turn the generator on. They had to be flipped in the correct order, and of course I flipped them in the WRONG order, which blew the transistors. It was shortly after that I figured out the magnetic neutralization, and have just run the whole thing with a small motor. I haven't even bothered to run it on the 3 Battery circuit to recover most of the expended energy because I already know I CAN, and it is easier to just run the motor off a power supply than to mess with rotating batteries and all that switching.

My research was focused on TWO things when I stopped to remodel two houses. The first was core material, and the second was an entirely NEW configuration of the generator using a PacSci motor that has shafts coming out both ends. The new configuration would have 20 coils on it and at around 200 watts per coil, that would give me something worth keeping. I have the design all done, but didn't build the machine yet, although I bought all the parts.

The reason I wanted to experiment with that design is because a smaller machine could be built using a razor scooter motor that you knock the shaft out of and replace with (I believe) 7/16 all thread. By drilling a hole in the other end cap of the motor, you can put the rod all the way through and that allows you to build a small six coil machine that you can print all the parts necessary for construction on a 3D printer. I have the design all worked out and If you have a 3D printer, a Dremel tool, a set of dremel drill bits, and a plunge router attachment https://www.walmart.com/ip/Dremel-50...10090302008005
along with a regular drill, you can build all the parts.
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  #4781  
Old 06-10-2019, 06:25 AM
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Hello again Turion,

I have noticed a difference between the 6 coil machine and the 5 coil machine that I have been thinking about.

With the 6 coil machine I can see that all the coils energize at the same time, and with the 5 coil machine the coils energize one at the time.

Have you noticed any problems or benefits from either set up. More so for the generation of electricity and the way it is saved or used, does the coils interfere with each other, or any other issue you have noticed.
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  #4782  
Old 06-10-2019, 02:35 PM
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6 vs 5

Netica,
You are correct about the two machines. The six machine has six coils on each side of the rotor, so 12 coils interact at once. This was TOO MUCH magnetic drag for the motor to overcome, especially on start up (over 100 amps drawn through the motor) so I had already switched to the 5 machine, which has five coils on each side of the rotor and only a pair interacting at the same time, to reduce that amp draw to something that wouldn’t burn up so many motors before I figured out magnetic neutralization. Now I have applied what I learned to BOTH machines. The other major difference between the two machines is the six machine has two sets of magnets on the rotor. It has the N/S magnets that go past the coils and ANOTHER set of magnets out closer to the rim that are all N on one side and all S on the other. These interact with a set of adjustable magnets on the stator, so there is a north magnet on one side of the rotor that interacts with a north magnet on the stator and the opposite side of that magnet on the rotor is south and interacts with a south magnet on the stator. Because the rotor and coil holder must be bigger to accommodate the extra magnets, and it uses 3 times as many magnets, this machine is MORE expensive to build, and I felt it wasn’t worth talking about. The 5 machine takes advantage of the fact that with five coils evenly spaced, and an even number of magnets on the rotor, when a magnet on the rotor is aligned with a coil, the magnet directly across from it on the rotor is aligned with an empty space BETWEEN coils, so I could put repulsive magnets there. BUT, this required that the rotor have all North magnets on one side and all South on the other in order to make the magnetic neutralization work. My thought was that while this may ultimately not be the BEST of the two designs, it is the CHEAPEST and more likely to get people to actually build it. So it is the one I have done videos of and have been talking about for a while now. When I first brought up the generator on this thread it was the 6 machine because that’s what I built first, and it was fantastic with only four coils in it. Definitely COP>2. The problem was, when I tried to add more coils the motor was damaged. But as I already said, this was BEFORE I figured out the magnetic neutralization.

For all my power output testing I have hooked a 300 watt light bulb to a pair of coils that are across the rotor from each other. So each pair of coils is independent of all the other pairs and connected to its own individual load. I figured some electrical engineer who knows far more than I do about power conversion could figure out how to wire all those pairs to work together.

As I have said MANY times. This is a test machine. I built it to test size and thickness of magnets to see what outputs the best with 3/4 diameter coil cores. I built it to test core materials to see which produces the most with the least negative effects. I built it to test wire length, size and winding configurations. My hope was that others would build and I wouldn’t have to do ALL the testing on my own.
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  #4783  
Old 06-11-2019, 06:05 AM
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Thanks Turion,

The original 6 coil pair machine must have been very large to accommodate the extra set of magnets. How large was the diameter of the rotor?
Is there much performance loss with all the same pole magnets, Like is it really worth building?
I know also its also alot more challenging and dangerous to build a large rotor and coil holder.
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  #4784  
Old 06-11-2019, 01:46 PM
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Comparison

There is NO loss in performance PER COIL between the two machines. One machine has 10 coils and the other has 12, so there is a loss in total output. All magnets do is induce flux in the coil. N/S rotors vs N/N rotors seem to produce the SAME amount of flux. There is a ďvirtual southĒ between two N/N magnets. The biggest issue with any of these machines is that the cores can become slowly magnetized when sitting still, so I remove my rotors when they are not going to be running for a while, or disconnect all loads and let my rotor slowly rotate.

I canít measure the rotor on the big machine as it is in for testing and some work at the machine shop in conjunction with the tests. , but it was about 12 inches in diameter. From the experimenting I did, I would recommend 1Ē between any magnet on the rotor and another magnet.
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  #4785  
Old 06-12-2019, 07:07 PM
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Turion,

That's good that no matter what configuration the power generation is the same for either set up.

I am wondering if you have ever tried to use 20mm or 3/4 inch diameter magnets in your rotors rather than the 1 inch ones and if so what kind of differences in results you may have found.
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  #4786  
Old 06-12-2019, 07:52 PM
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Magnets

It isn’t the diameter of the magnet that gives you the generating capacity, it is the MASS If you go to a smaller diameter magnet you can actually get MORE output by increasing its length. This makes a thicker rotor, but a thicker rotor has more stability.
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  #4787  
Old 06-20-2019, 07:26 PM
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Coil Question

An open question to the forum...What is the most power in watts you have been able to generate from a coil, and what was the makeup of that coil. In other words, how many strands of what size wire at what length. What size rotor with what size magnets turning at what rpm was used.
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  #4788  
Old 06-20-2019, 08:32 PM
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My personal experience

I have only used 8+1 coils (from TeslaGenX)before the junkyard build.
I will have 6 units to replace.
Each unit has 2 coils in parallel per circuit board.
The units run cold and no trigger resistor.
Each board holds 8 transistors.
The magnets are 2x1x1/4 inch N52 and two are used per set paralleling the coil middles.
I donít know the watts but the working units charged my 1110 amp hour battery bank in about 12 hours from total discharge of about 9 volts, but I never let it go that low because it ran continuously to power my home.
I have 4 inverters that are 30/30 apiece.
So what is being used?
The coils side by side with a pair of magnets on one 2x4.
See the damages inflicted upon the build?
The circuit board is on the backside of the coil build.





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  #4789  
Old 06-21-2019, 03:44 PM
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Pothead, What do you mean by "4 inverters 30/30 apiece". I've got a big inverter (and other small ones ) but can't decipher what 30/30 apiece is about.
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  #4790  
Old 06-21-2019, 07:54 PM
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Sorry

Hello ewizard, sorry about the confusion.

Attached Images
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File Type: jpg 78FBEE17-F5AD-476E-8374-5D8DBEEFC551.jpg (137.6 KB, 82 views)
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  #4791  
Old 06-22-2019, 03:29 PM
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Final Build

I am building one final version of this generator.
I am ordering parts sometime in the next 30 days as I get my list together of all the parts I need. I will be able to consolidate a lot of things because I will no longer need to leave room for taking coils in and out of the design. Once they are in, they are basically in to stay.

It will be the final build of the generator for several reasons. First, the only thing left was to see if a different core material produced equal flux with less heat. I no longer care about that. I have seen that a water jacket will keep the cores cool and the generator can be used to heat water while it is running. Next is that this machine running on a PROPER 3 battery system or even the single battery circuit is everything I wanted to accomplish.

Finally, as I have seen what is possible with the 3 battery system this kind of tech has simply become outdated. There are more efficient ways to produce power and I want to spend my time with that.

As I add parts, I will update the list below. I just wanted you guys to see that I put my money where my mouth is on this stuff, and I wouldn't put out this kind of money for something that doesn't work. Or would I? Am I really THAT crazy?

The new rotor I am building requires 24 of these:
Rotor Magnets
$527.76 plus shipping
Just a moment...

A New rotor just over 4” thick from 4.25 stock.
Acetal (polyoxymethylene) is a high strength, low friction engineering plastic that has excellent wear properties in both wet and dry environments. Easy to machine, acetal makes an outstanding choice for applications that require complex, tight tolerances.
https://www.eplastics.com/4-250-X-12...k-Acetal-Sheet
$268 plus shipping

Five of these
https://www.magnet4sale.com/magnet-w...s-11-lb-spool/
$595.30 plus shipping (Actually a couple bucks cheaper than the wrong one I posted previously

3 of these
$33.84 plus shipping
https://www.amazon.com/UCF202-10-Pil...V4/ref=sr_1_8?
keywords=5%2F8+flange+bearing&qid=1561216018&s=gat eway&sr=8-8

4 sheets of plastic 14 x 14 x 1
$310.88 plus shipping
https://www.tapplastics.com/product/...uper_thick/615

Base sheet 14 x 30
$166.54
same supplier

Two Inside 1/4 sheets to retain coil
$39.20
Same supplier

Spacers
Stainless steel bolts, washers, nuts
bobbins
core material
epoxy
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Last edited by Turion; 06-24-2019 at 02:36 AM.
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  #4792  
Old 06-22-2019, 10:51 PM
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Thanks Dave, you are making history with this build. The possibilities
are greater with a core that can be changed? And the heat issue
sounds like you might be able to heat a tiny hot water heater something
tank to wash your hands with in the shop. I like water cooling better
anyway. All generator have some form of cooling @ 2000watts.

Thanks for sharing the price list with the specific parts list. It is an
exciting opportunity that I am glad you have chosen not to miss.

Sounds like more than a 2000watt machine actually but 28awg?

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  #4793  
Old 06-23-2019, 12:21 AM
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In tribal and or family issues, to tell the tale to seven witnesses and then they tell seven others, is how early legends and history was established.
Since Turion is telling the tale, it will be told to the several others who are of this tribe and or family.
This is my way and this post waits for all the details to follow.
Please tell more of your tale Turion so even the newest member can bear witness.
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  #4794  
Old 06-23-2019, 01:26 AM
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Turion wrote:
Five of these
$598.25 plus shipping
https://www.amazon.com/Magnet-Wire-S...y&sr=8-2-fkmr0

Is this a typo? Didn't you mean 23awg?
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  #4795  
Old 06-23-2019, 01:34 AM
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Correction

YES. #23
Iíll find the link and change ut
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  #4796  
Old 06-23-2019, 02:59 AM
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Turion,

If you are making an aluminum rotor and you still are using the stationary magnets to prevent the cogging, surely as the aluminum rotor spins, the magnetic field of the stationary magnets will cause drag on the rotor and heat up the rotor.
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  #4797  
Old 06-23-2019, 03:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Netica View Post
Turion,

If you are making an aluminum rotor and you still are using the stationary magnets to prevent the cogging, surely as the aluminum rotor spins, the magnetic field of the stationary magnets will cause drag on the rotor and heat up the rotor.
Dude if it does heat up a small amount, aluminum is easy to machine
out an 1/8" so magnet shields could be used to stop flux migration.
But it is time to get away from a liquid rotor.
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Old 06-23-2019, 03:47 AM
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Netica, hi, I think magnets as bearings are in the right direction but Turion might have another thought.
Water bearings? Good for the sharp mind to build.
Vacuum bearings? Tesla design.
Perhaps Turion will write the answer.
Perhaps a metal tube vacuumed out to 2 atmospheres and injected with water until minus one atmosphere and then set as the core of a coil?
How rediculous, huh?
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  #4799  
Old 06-23-2019, 10:14 AM
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Eddy current brake

Quote:
Originally Posted by Netica View Post
Turion,

If you are making an aluminum rotor and you still are using the stationary magnets to prevent the cogging, surely as the aluminum rotor spins, the magnetic field of the stationary magnets will cause drag on the rotor and heat up the rotor.
Good catch, Netica.

bi
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Old 06-23-2019, 01:21 PM
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Netica,
That is a really good point. I appreciate you pointing that out. I DO intend to use the opposing magnets so I will definitely have to rethink the use of aluminum. I do NOT want to have to pay for a SECOND rotor.
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