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  #4651  
Old 03-05-2019, 11:15 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Example.

Aaron, for Pete's sake please give one example of something out of all
your drivel that actually works.
I can cite loads of failures.

The textbook misses an opportunity (as does every other textbook on my shelf) to make an important connection: Lenz’s law is just a version of Newton’s third law applied to a particular kind of situation; that is, a situation where a changing magnetic flux induces a current in a loop of wire.

Check out what I said about Newton.

If you really want to get somewhere you've got to get into relativistic matters.

Sincerely. John.
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  #4652  
Old 03-06-2019, 12:01 AM
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trolls

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamnuts View Post
Aaron, for Pete's sake please give one example of something out of all
your drivel that actually works.
I can cite loads of failures.

The textbook misses an opportunity (as does every other textbook on my shelf) to make an important connection: Lenz’s law is just a version of Newton’s third law applied to a particular kind of situation; that is, a situation where a changing magnetic flux induces a current in a loop of wire.

Check out what I said about Newton.

If you really want to get somewhere you've got to get into relativistic matters.

Sincerely. John.
Drivel? You're too ignorant to comprehend it, therefore it is unappealing to your intellectual dishonesty. Evasion of the Essential - you're mentally and emotionally incapable of handling the facts so you resort to petty criticism. You are a coward. That is a mental illness that plagues humanity and you are demonstrating it with textbook precision.

You said nothing of significance relating to Newton.

You're wrong - Lenz's Law is not a version of the Third Law of Motion - it is a myth that mechanical laws automatically apply to electrical and visa versa. Lenz's Law is not a law - it is only a condition that applies under very certain parameters.

A slow boring video showing a Bedini SG type circuit in forced oscillator mode (not self oscillator mode) that is running on a capacitor - not a battery and the recovery goes to another capacitor. The recovery capacitor is fed to the front pseudo-looping it so that the front circuit sees the recovery and can use it but the front capacitor does not see it - therefore, the circuit remains open and the dipole isn't killed.

As the front capacitor runs down from its one, single initial charge up, it then slowly charges back up under it's own operation - self running and the COP simply climbs exponentially over time. Not powering anything other than its own circuit but that's irrelevant. What is relevant is that it demonstrates many principles that you are emotionally and mentally incapable of embracing or comprehending and it demonstrates everything that you say cannot be done or has not been demonstrated. It requires an isolated recovery winding and this can be done with capacitors just as shown in the 3 battery or 3 capacitor mode on the front side for an even more impressive demonstration but you don't deserve to know anything about it.



Relativistic matters? You can't even comprehend what is responsible for relativistic effects as evidenced by your statement. Had you comprehended what I told you about energy and potential, you would already know what relativity actually is and what causes it.

""My opinion about Miller's experiments is the following. ... Should the positive result be confirmed, then the special theory of relativity and with it the general theory of relativity, in its current form, would be invalid. Experimentum summus judex. Only the equivalence of inertia and gravitation would remain, however, they would have to lead to a significantly different theory."
— Albert Einstein, in a letter to Edwin E. Slosson, 8 July 1925 (from copy in Hebrew University Archive, Jerusalem.) See citations below for Silberstein 1925 and Einstein 1926."



Miller was proven to be in the positive and the non-bastardized interferometer experiments always show positive results of a dynamic aether - something you can not debate.


And


"You imagine that I look back on my life's work with calm satisfaction. But from nearby it looks quite different. There is not a single concept of which I am convinced that it will stand firm, and I feel uncertain whether I am in general on the right track."
— Albert Einstein, on his 70th birthday, in a letter to Maurice Solovine, 28 March 1949 (in B. Hoffman Albert Einstein: Creator and Rebel 1972, p.328)

Miller flushed Einstein's non-aetheric relativity down the drain and Einstein was very open about that in his final days - fully admitting he was pushing nothing more than pure unadulterated nonsense - that was his real legacy - wasting everyone's time.

Do not give trolls what is sacred - do not throw your pearls to trolls.
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  #4653  
Old 03-06-2019, 12:24 AM
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So in other news. I am having some really good results using a function generator and a transistor switch to pulse a stock motor. I tried this before but this time I put it on the negative rail of the 3BS with a blocking diode.

I will post some scope shots and results soon but it seems to be working well.



-Altrez
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  #4654  
Old 03-06-2019, 02:15 AM
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Results!

altrez,

Glad to see you haven't given up and are having positive results. Just don't tell anyone here or they will call you a fraud. LOL When you SEE what is possible with your own eyes, it is pretty hard for ANYONE to convince you that there is nothing of importance going on with this setup. I hope you are having fun and continue to learn. Once you have a system that you KNOW is putting out more than you are putting in, you are at the ground floor of the empire state building when it comes to what is possible. But this system, and playing around with it, will teach you everything you need to know if you continue to add parts and pieces that have been talked about o this thread and see what you can do with them in different combinations.
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  #4655  
Old 03-06-2019, 03:45 AM
bistander bistander is online now
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Lenz

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
...
Here's a video from an "independent lab" you may have heard of. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ5xnyj7xe4
What does residual magnetizm have to do with Lenz? What do his videos have to do with Lenz, aside from the title.


Lenz's Law is qualitative. It is simply that negative sign that you see in Faraday's Law. How can it be delayed?
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  #4656  
Old 03-06-2019, 04:57 AM
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Lenz

By definition, the direction of the current induced in a conductor by a changing magnetic field is such that the magnetic field created by the induced current opposes the initial charging magnetic field. The two opposing magnetic fields being forced together is what the motor has to overcome and why the amp draw of the motor goes up when the generator coils are under load.

In other words, as a magnet approaches a coil that is connected to a load forming a completed circuit, a magnetic field will be formed in the coil that opposes the field of the approaching magnet. At top dead center the field in the coil flips polarity, attracting the magnet that is trying to move away.

Read Tesla patent 512,340. In it he describes a method for winding a coil so that the capacitance of the coil is increased to the point that, when the rotor with a proper number of magnets on it is turned at the proper speed (fast enough) the formation of that opposing field does not occur soon enough to repel the approaching magnet. If it is formed at exactly the right time there is NO reaction at all (and the generator coil produces the MOST power). If it is formed s bit later, just as the rotor magnet passes top dead center, it pushes the magnet away in the direction it is moving. Less power is produced by the coil in this case.

Per Tesla:
"I have found that in every coil there exists a certain relation between its self-induction and capacity that permits a current of given frequency and potential to pass through it with no other opposition than that of ohmic resistance, or, in other words, as though it possessed no self-induction. (No Self induction means NO OPPOSING FIELD CREATED!) This is due to the mutual relations existing between the special character of the current and the self-induction and capacity of the coil, the latter quantity being just capable of neutralizing the self-induction for that frequency."

Because there is no opposing field under load, there is no increased amp draw of the motor when the coils are under load. My motor pulls 12 amps at 24 volts whether there is a load on the coils or NOT.

The trick was figuring out how many wires at what length to wind a coil that would match the number of magnets I had on the rotor turned by the specific motor running on 24 volts at a specific rpm. Anything under 2800 rpm and I do not get the effect. Too much rpm and I get speed up under load or lens assist, and power output goes DOWN. It took over a year to figure out all the variables and put together the perfect coil for this machine. But ANY coil will work as long as you can figure out how fast the rotor has to turn for THAT particular coil. The problem is, sometimes that rpm is way higher than your motor can achieve or your rotor can withstand.

Tesla also says you can increase the capacitance of the coil by using a capacitor along with it and get the same result, but I have never tried that. I do not remember if he said in series or parallel, but I imagine it was in series. In the old days they used expensive bulky capacitors. His "invention" replaced that.
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  #4657  
Old 03-06-2019, 05:40 AM
bistander bistander is online now
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Power Factor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
By definition, the direction of the current induced in a conductor by a changing magnetic field is such that the magnetic field created by the induced current opposes the initial charging magnetic field. The two opposing magnetic fields being forced together is what the motor has to overcome and why the amp draw of the motor goes up when the generator coils are under load.

In other words, as a magnet approaches a coil that is connected to a load forming a completed circuit, a magnetic field will be formed in the coil that opposes the field of the approaching magnet. At top dead center the field in the coil flips polarity, attracting the magnet that is trying to move away.

Read Tesla patent 512,340. In it he describes a method for winding a coil so that the capacitance of the coil is increased to the point that, when the rotor with a proper number of magnets on it is turned at the proper speed (fast enough) the formation of that opposing field does not occur soon enough to repel the approaching magnet. If it is formed at exactly the right time there is NO reaction at all (and the generator coil produces the MOST power). If it is formed s bit later, just as the rotor magnet passes top dead center, it pushes the magnet away in the direction it is moving. Less power is produced by the coil in this case.

Per Tesla:
"I have found that in every coil there exists a certain relation between its self-induction and capacity that permits a current of given frequency and potential to pass through it with no other opposition than that of ohmic resistance, or, in other words, as though it possessed no self-induction. This is due to the mutual relations existing between the special character of the current and the self-induction and capacity of the coil, the latter quantity being just capable of neutralizing the self-induction for that frequency."

Because there is no opposing field under load, there is no increased amp draw of the motor when the coils are under load. My motor pulls 12 amps at 24 volts whether there is a load on the coils or NOT.

The trick was figuring out how many wires at what length to wind a coil that would match the number of magnets I had on the rotor turned by the specific motor running on 24 volts at a specific rpm. Anything under 2800 rpm and I do not get the effect. Too much rpm and I get speed up under load or lens assist, and power output goes down. It took over a year to figure out all the variables and put together the perfect coil for this machine. But ANY coil will work as long as you can figure out how fast the rotor has to turn for THAT particular coil.

Tesla also says you can increase the capacitance of the coil by using a capacitor along with it and get the same result, but I have never tried that. I do not remember if he said in series or parallel, but I imagine it was in series.
Sounds more like altering the phase angle, or decreasing the Power Factor.
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  #4658  
Old 03-06-2019, 06:12 AM
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Terms

It doesn't matter what you call it.

What it means is that with the use of magnetic repulsion, which I have explained, and delayed Lenz, which I have explained. You can build HUGE ROTORS with TONS of magnets on them passing HUGE coils, and the input amperage the motor requires to turn that rotor is what it would be just rotating anything of the same weight, and does NOT increase under load. I have seen this on 9 different machines I have built. I have videos of it doing this under load. RPM of the motor goes up and amp draw goes down. Increased rpm means more power output from the generator coil because more magnets pass the coil in a shorter amount of time. All positives. All the issues that make it impossible for an electric motor to turn a generator and produce adequate power to make it worthwhile are eliminated. I have seen what happens to the amp draw of the motor when you use all 12 coils to give you lenz assisted rotation, and it is extremely impressive, but you sacrifice the power output.

This is by NO MEANS perfected. The coils with iron cores heat up and the machine can only run for about 30 minutes at a time without burning up the coils. I have burnt the coils up TWICE because of this, and that is $800 worth of wire down the drain on TWO different occasions. I was in the process of testing core materials when we decided to move and sell our old house and now I have NO TIME for this.

Anyone who has a rotor with magnets on it and can wind a coil can verify whether or not I am telling the truth. Why more people are not building this I cannot understand. Just a rotor and ONE coil would be enough to start experimenting with different core materials to see how it affects production and heat accumulation. It would also prove the magnetic neutralization and delayed lenz.
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  #4659  
Old 03-06-2019, 06:43 AM
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low to no drag generator coils

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
By definition, the direction of the current induced in a conductor by a changing magnetic field is such that the magnetic field created by the induced current opposes the initial charging magnetic field. The two opposing magnetic fields being forced together is what the motor has to overcome and why the amp draw of the motor goes up when the generator coils are under load.

In other words, as a magnet approaches a coil that is connected to a load forming a completed circuit, a magnetic field will be formed in the coil that opposes the field of the approaching magnet. At top dead center the field in the coil flips polarity, attracting the magnet that is trying to move away.

Read Tesla patent 512,340. In it he describes a method for winding a coil so that the capacitance of the coil is increased to the point that, when the rotor with a proper number of magnets on it is turned at the proper speed (fast enough) the formation of that opposing field does not occur soon enough to repel the approaching magnet. If it is formed at exactly the right time there is NO reaction at all (and the generator coil produces the MOST power). If it is formed s bit later, just as the rotor magnet passes top dead center, it pushes the magnet away in the direction it is moving. Less power is produced by the coil in this case.

Per Tesla:
"I have found that in every coil there exists a certain relation between its self-induction and capacity that permits a current of given frequency and potential to pass through it with no other opposition than that of ohmic resistance, or, in other words, as though it possessed no self-induction. (No Self induction means NO OPPOSING FIELD CREATED!) This is due to the mutual relations existing between the special character of the current and the self-induction and capacity of the coil, the latter quantity being just capable of neutralizing the self-induction for that frequency."

Because there is no opposing field under load, there is no increased amp draw of the motor when the coils are under load. My motor pulls 12 amps at 24 volts whether there is a load on the coils or NOT.

The trick was figuring out how many wires at what length to wind a coil that would match the number of magnets I had on the rotor turned by the specific motor running on 24 volts at a specific rpm. Anything under 2800 rpm and I do not get the effect. Too much rpm and I get speed up under load or lens assist, and power output goes DOWN. It took over a year to figure out all the variables and put together the perfect coil for this machine. But ANY coil will work as long as you can figure out how fast the rotor has to turn for THAT particular coil. The problem is, sometimes that rpm is way higher than your motor can achieve or your rotor can withstand.

Tesla also says you can increase the capacitance of the coil by using a capacitor along with it and get the same result, but I have never tried that. I do not remember if he said in series or parallel, but I imagine it was in series. In the old days they used expensive bulky capacitors. His "invention" replaced that.

Several years back when Peter demonstrated the bicycle wheel SG with the generator coil, the intention was to show a low drag generator coil that of course did not have the normal associated drag for equivalent power output.



We wound that with I think 10 wires each was about 100 feet long on the coil form and the top of each was wired to the bottom of the next and so on using the exact principle in Tesla's patent. We weren't going for anything super tuned so the 10 wires was just an arbitrary number - maybe it was 12 but at least 10 minimum for sure.



The output of that gen coil went to some caps to keep them charged up and it could light a board with about 40 bright white led's to full brightness and when it was turned on and the gen coil mount was just right - the rotor had ZERO change in RPM. Have seen that countless times and being that the LEDs are powered from that cap with steady DC, the power factor of 1.0 - all real power and no drag on the wheel.



Of course this is just flea power compared to the gen coils you've experimented with. We tried to put people on that track back then and not one single person ever contacted us to let us know they actually applied that principle. I don't know why more people aren't experimenting with it either. I have to a point in regards to the Kromrey machine built by Bedini, but been swamped with the MWO manufacturing project for the last 15 months or so.

I've done that plenty of time small scale as well and it works just like how you say it does.



Another way to negate the cogging is shorting the coil, which quite a few more people have experimented with over the years. Magnet moves in and induces current into the coil. Coil is shorted and creates a counter magnetic field that bucks the polarity on the magnet that induced that counter current to begin with and it repels the magnet, thereby neutralizing the cogging effect, coil is open then you get the high voltage spike.

For me, the jury is out on what method is better or perhaps the Tesla bifilar wiring method and coil shorting together is the ultimate.

When bistander says "sounds like" - that is code for the fact that he doesn't understand what you're sharing about the generator coil and is trying to make it match something that makes sense to him already since many cynics such as him think overunity claims are usually attributed to phantom power measurements by having bad power factor. What he doesn't understand is even if there is bad power factor, reactive power can be turned into real power - something he has no knowledge or experience doing because that is supposed to be impossible in the realm of conventional science.



It is also possible to take the reactive element in mechanical systems and divert it in a way to assist the forward work in the system. So it is using the "equal and opposite" reaction to your benefit just like using Lenz Law to your benefit in negating the cogging action by shorting a coil at the right time.
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  #4660  
Old 03-06-2019, 07:24 AM
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Coils

The coils I am using are 12 strands of #23 each 253 feet in length. That fills the bobbin. Then four strands are connected in series per Tesla's patent, so I end up with 3 strands in parallel coming off the coil. Longer strands would, of course, give higher voltage, and more strands that are shorter give higher amperage. The output of the coil is dependent on the number of magnets on the rotor and the rpm /input voltage to the motor.

The first time I got speed up under load with only two coils on the machine and a load running on only one of them, that coil put out 120 volts at .75 amps. This is exactly what the bulb I was using drew when it was connected to the wall, so I got REALLY excited. My coil was three wires, each strand of #23 each 300' long. That was with only six 2" magnets on the rotor instead of twelve 1" magnets, and running at 12 volts instead of 24, so my coil production has GREATLY improved. I have a video somewhere of that machine running and speeding up under load and it shows the output of that coil. It is the first video I made of the first version of the generator and sent to Matt.


The stock MY1016 motor is strong enough to turn this setup at the required 2800 rpm on only 12 volts. When I was using it, I had a rotor with six magnets on it and a coil on each side of each magnet, so 12 coils. I had to pulse one coil to break the magnetic lock and then hit the switch to start the motor. It pulled WAY more amps than it was rated for to get up to speed, and I could only start the machine four or five times this way before it just burnt up the motor. I went through half a dozen motors before I decided to move to the MY1020.

I didn't have magnetic neutralization then. Now that I do, I don't need the bigger motor. But I have FOUR of them and no MY1016 motors that aren't burnt up.
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  #4661  
Old 03-06-2019, 04:29 PM
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Hi Dave,

tomorrow I should receive the magnets to try the magnetic neutralization with. Same diameter as the cores, and I ordered different widths for best adjustments.

Question:

Thanks to the magnetic neutralization, do you see the amp reduction during startup only, or also at full speed, compared to a setup with no neutralization?

cheers,
Mario
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Old 03-06-2019, 06:59 PM
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Purcell.

Magnetism, Radiation, and Relativity
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Old 03-06-2019, 08:36 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Fascinating.

Now I find this quite fascinating. This is about zero point energy, the fact that
you can “borrow as long as it is short term” amazes me.

First, quantum fluctuations do violate the conservation laws but they do it on a very small time scale. This is allowed by quantum physics. In simple terms, quantum mechanics allows “borrowing” of energy or momentum for very short time.

We sort of know a fair bit about how nature works but I feel there’s quite a
bit more to come. It’s so exciting getting to see what’s going on and for me as
my life is almost over, that makes me feel sad.

I’d love to know if any of you believe that relativity is the right way to look
at EM induction.
To me quantum and Heisenberg’s uncertainty are key to more complete
understanding.
Or
Perhaps I am just a silly old fool.
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Old 03-07-2019, 06:17 AM
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Thoghts

Nobody who spends their time researching free energy so they can make the world a better place is a "Silly old fool." Just saying. It's real, and it will change the world. The future is not that far off.
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Old 03-07-2019, 09:52 PM
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low drag generator methods

The quantum nonsense is a dead end - only a distraction to take people off the path of the aether physics developed by JJ Thomson, Faraday, etc. they had already accounted for what quantum physics tries to as well as what it cannot. I used to believe in the quantum nonsense wholeheartedly.



The keys to the low drag generator methods are all in the 3rd Advanced book in the SG trilogy at Bedini SG - The Complete Handbook Series for the Bedini SG & Bedini SSG. We give several methods - not theoretical, we built them and they worked and have demonstrated a few. Peter did an excellent job breaking it down in that book.

The gen coil Peter and I built clipped the voltage at the peak of what was generated - prime mover can't really see any load. That is just one way and there are many.



David just gave away one of the origins with the Tesla bifilar patent.

The Tesla bifilar winding method to increase capacitance in the coil has many applications. Used it years ago in some Stan Meyer type of VIC (voltage intensifier circuits) - winding the chokes in that method easily doubles the voltage output.

The Kromrey Generator that John Bedini built also has low drag effects and under certain circumstances will speed up under load. It also can charge a very large 8 volt maybe 225 ah battery with much more energy than can be accounted for by measuring what leaves the generator coils. Peter and I were right there at the bench when John did it. The Kromrey can also run without the prime mover as well. To my knowledge, nobody else has been able to do that.

Also keep in mind that in certain windows of opportunity, an inductor can lose 100% of all its inductance so it can be charged virtually instantaneous with no charging ramp/curve. It's an amplification of the magnetism's power (not necessarily energy). However, because of the very sharp gradient, it is polarizing the aether in an impulse, which can draw in more potential so there can be energy gains as well as power gains. It has been known for many decades that sharp gradients can and do violate conventional thermodynamics.

I also see bistander and iamnuts are incapable of acknowledging the stupid little self running - self charging oscillator, which flushes all their conventional beliefs down the drain - and it was done with capacitors to add insult to injury.

"Let's ignore the things we ask for and just keeping posting irrelevant drivel to drown out the facts." - Iamnuts & bistander
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Old 03-07-2019, 10:20 PM
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Don't kill the dipole and ZPE misnomer

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Now I find this quite fascinating. This is about zero point energy, the fact that
you can “borrow as long as it is short term” amazes me.
That is a misunderstanding of what ZPE means. ZPE is only one of many signs that space in and of itself is in a state of flux or movement - space is not filled with that potential, space is that potential.


Borrow it short term?

If you have a flashlight, that battery breaks the symmetry of the "virtual photon flux of the quantum mechanical vacuum" as Bearden would say, but more accurately and simply, the battery polarizes the aether - it can't get any simpler.

That aether moves over the wire and is the electromotive force that potentiates or pulls the electrons to start moving in the opposite direction. So as long as that dipole is maintained, which on a "closed" circuit flashlight, that battery's charge separation will move towards equilibrium bit by bit. The point is that it is not a short term borrowing of what ZPE is evidence of and will last an infinite amount of time if a dipole can be maintained infinitely.

How can the claim be substantiated that it can be borrowed from but only short term? It can't.

ZPE is only describing what the aether is doing at or near absolute zero - that does NOT mean that ZPE is what the aether is. You are confusing the activity that the object is doing with the object itself.
  • ZPE is the activity of the aether at or near absolute zero.
  • FALLING is what an object does under the downward push of the aether when there is nothing stopping it's movement downward.
  • There are countless examples of things that describe what the aether is doing.
Referring to ZPE as the stuff is 100% identical to the example if I referred to the aether as FALLING. "We can borrow from FALLING but only for a short time." That would be absurd but it is also equally absurd to refer to ZPE in the same way. You're looking at the elephant's footprint and are calling it the elephant. A boat zooms past you on a lake, you don't see the boat, but are actually calling the waves the boat when referring to ZPE in such a way. Most people refer to ZPE in the same way so it's not unique to you, but it is a misnomer nevertheless.



A dipole can be indefinitely maintained and in doing so, we are utilizing (borrowing from) the aether for a very long period of time. That is the point to the prime mover side of things. How do you maintain the charge separation in the batteries? At the next conference, you'll see yet another machine that keeps itself charged up. Probably hasn't been charged in over a year, can go nearly 10,000 RPM with a big heavy rotor and it turns a regular motor with full Lenz Law drag as the generator! Not even a specialized one like what Dave has built. Yet, the batteries stay charged up. Don't kill the dipole - that is as literal as it can be and means it is false that "ZPE" can only be borrowed from for a short time.
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Old 03-07-2019, 10:33 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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In the past.

Odd fellow, that Aaron,trying to peddle ancient stuff. Suggesting I have
mental health problems.
Generators etc. use induction which is admirably demonstrated with
relativity.
Lead Acid has had its day, as for saying increase the voltage with micro pulses,
who on earth could spend time doing that?
The way ahead is with ever improving solar panels, wind and feeding into
long life storage batteries. Make hay while the sun shines.We need batteries
which will accept high charge rates and deal with repeated deep dod.
Quantum is for real and we have to accept it. If the is something to be found
in energy it’s going to be there.
Although poor old Einstein was troubled by his apparent failure with his
cosmological constant it has been found that he wasn’t too far off the mark
anyhow.
The future is exciting as far as energy goes. Robust thyristors have made
HVDC transmission a reality, this will allow people to harvest the wind and
sun and deliver it to where it’s needed.
Come on guys, leave the past behind and enjoy the future technology.
Look at the savings that can be made with new lighting and cooling.
This is called “Energetic Forum”,let’s see it live up to its name!
Remember, you won’t get past Newton 3 with bits of wire and magnets
and the sign change Lens predicts has happened at 186,000 mph.
John. Beat that if you can!
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Old 03-07-2019, 10:46 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Mistake.

Should’ve been 186,000 miles a second. PDQ which ever way.
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Old 03-07-2019, 11:01 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Caution.

One word of caution, “beware”.
If we manage to capture a particle from the vacuum we may just evaporate
like a black hole.
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Old 03-07-2019, 11:15 PM
NROC NROC is offline
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Impedance of an Electrical System

I just wanted to chime in here to bistanders post about phase angle.

It is actually a fact in electrical engineering that any system that uses AC has impedance and the phases of the currents and voltages play a major role. Tesla's coils allow you to have much larger distributed capacitance than winding a normal coil. The advantage of that is that the capacitive reactance and inductive reactance of the coils cancel each other out at a specific frequency without needing to add discrete capacitors. When that situation occurs the magnetic fields of the system cancel each other out and the only losses in a system are ohmic losses. This is what Tesla means by 'no self induction' and this is electrical engineering 101, it is resonance, and the idea that this cannot happen in a motor or generator is not something impossible at all. Engineering the phase of the currents and voltages in a system is done all the time but it is just that the mainstream EE community doesn't investigate it because Lenz's Law is taken.... Well... as a law when in reality it is simply an effect that shows up and doesn't mean it cannot be overcome.

Dave is making progress on something that is a truly useful device and he has been clever enough to engineer out the lenz effect.
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Old 03-08-2019, 02:39 AM
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Turion Turion is offline
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When you "engineer out" lenz as well as the attraction of the rotor magnets to the cores of the coils, you can spin HUGE ROTORS with magnets on them past as many coils as you can manage to fit around the rotor for VERY LITTLE INPUT. This means you can achieve outputs far greater than the input. Whatever the coil puts out times however many coils you have, and admire, because they cost NOTHING and do not affect the input! One day I will post all the proof here and then those who believe this is worth nothing will look like exactly what they are. But since they choose to hide their identity they will simply assume a new one and pretend it was not THEM.
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Old 03-08-2019, 03:45 AM
bistander bistander is online now
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Little oscillator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
...
I also see bistander and iamnuts are incapable of acknowledging the stupid little self running - self charging oscillator, which flushes all their conventional beliefs down the drain - and it was done with capacitors to add insult to injury.

"Let's ignore the things we ask for and just keeping posting irrelevant drivel to drown out the facts." - Iamnuts & bistander
Hi Aaron,

OK. I see a capacitor with a varying open circuit voltage of five orders of magnitude lower than its rating, 10 orders lower than rated energy. Big deal. I've done enough study on caps to know they have an equivalent circuit much like a transmission line. Charge redistribution occurs even open terminals after external charge or discharge has ceased. Not to say the voltmeter itself could play into it. And then there's the power supply or whatever under the towel supplying the transistor. I really don't know the details of the apparatus or test and don't particularly care. Maybe if it was putting out 2kW with 300W input it might be relevant. As I said before, I am not interested in arguing with you. You have your way, I have mine.

Thanks anyways for the opportunity to express my views on this board.

Regards,

bi
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Old 03-08-2019, 04:05 AM
bistander bistander is online now
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Lenz

Quote:
Originally Posted by NROC View Post
I just wanted to chime in here to bistanders post about phase angle.

It is actually a fact in electrical engineering that any system that uses AC has impedance and the phases of the currents and voltages play a major role. Tesla's coils allow you to have much larger distributed capacitance than winding a normal coil. The advantage of that is that the capacitive reactance and inductive reactance of the coils cancel each other out at a specific frequency without needing to add discrete capacitors. When that situation occurs the magnetic fields of the system cancel each other out and the only losses in a system are ohmic losses. This is what Tesla means by 'no self induction' and this is electrical engineering 101, it is resonance, and the idea that this cannot happen in a motor or generator is not something impossible at all. Engineering the phase of the currents and voltages in a system is done all the time but it is just that the mainstream EE community doesn't investigate it because Lenz's Law is taken.... Well... as a law when in reality it is simply an effect that shows up and doesn't mean it cannot be overcome.

Dave is making progress on something that is a truly useful device and he has been clever enough to engineer out the lenz effect.
Hi NROC,

I see Lenz's Law like most of the scientific community, as qualitative, the minus sign in Faraday's Law. So when you engineer that minus sign out, what's left? A positive sign or zero. If zero, then there is no generated voltage in the coil so the rotating machine is simply a flywheel incapable of supplying electric power.

If Faraday's Law has a positive sign instead of negative sign, the generator becomes positive feedback system and goes unstable immeadiately destroying itself.

Turion says to call it what I want. That's difficult when I can't understand what he's talking about and misuse of the technical terminology and scientific fundamentals doesn't help. But I do know a generator isn't going to output 2kW without torque opposing rotation.

Again, I don't care what he does inside the machine. Prove the claim: 2kW out / 300W in.

Regards,

bi
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Old 03-08-2019, 04:29 AM
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Turion Turion is offline
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Equation

Your statement is actually correct. It’s NOT that there is no Lenz. There absolutely IS. It is just that it is delayed long enough that the rotor magnet is allowed to rotate far enough to reach top dead center before the opppsing field (lenz) is formed. I have said this like twenty times now and you just don’t listen.
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  #4675  
Old 03-08-2019, 05:12 AM
bistander bistander is online now
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Doesn't matter to me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Your statement is actually correct. It’s NOT that there is no Lenz. There absolutely IS. It is just that it is delayed long enough that the rotor magnet is allowed to rotate far enough to reach top dead center before the opppsing field (lenz) is formed. I have said this like twenty times now and you just don’t listen.
I listen, or read what you say. What you say, or write isn't so. But believe what you want. I don't care. Just stand behind what you claim and show the 2kW out / 300W input machine in a valid test properly instrumented.

bi
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Old 03-08-2019, 09:17 AM
NROC NROC is offline
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What I mean by 'lenz engineered out ' is the fact that it takes a finite time for lenz to show up. If you have an oscilloscope with high enough bandwidth (100MHz or more) you can see it. Because it takes a finite time to take effect you can use that to your advantage and get a lenz assist. Your not getting rid of the negative sign in the equation you are simply delaying it. It is absolutely about the phase of the currents as you said but im not sure you understand what significance that actually has in this system. Dave has said this repeatedly for years. He has basically given away all the details and specs for it and he didnt have to.

Even if he posted graphs of input vs output would you believe him? I dont think you would. So it means you will need to use the wealth of knowledge on here and build one yourself and commit to building it correctly. If you dont then your statements are pretty much null and void and would be better served on a thread where you can discuss 'theory' with others.
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Old 03-08-2019, 09:28 AM
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Aaron Aaron is offline
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@bistander or iamnuts

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Hi Aaron,

OK. I see a capacitor with a varying open circuit voltage of five orders of magnitude lower than its rating, 10 orders lower than rated energy. Big deal. I've done enough study on caps to know they have an equivalent circuit much like a transmission line. Charge redistribution occurs even open terminals after external charge or discharge has ceased. Not to say the voltmeter itself could play into it. And then there's the power supply or whatever under the towel supplying the transistor. I really don't know the details of the apparatus or test and don't particularly care. Maybe if it was putting out 2kW with 300W input it might be relevant. As I said before, I am not interested in arguing with you. You have your way, I have mine.

Thanks anyways for the opportunity to express my views on this board.

Regards,

bi

The bottom line is it defeats your belief system - the bottom line is that it is a self running oscillator running on capacitors that charges itself back up and the coefficient of performance moves exponentially towards infinity over time. The capacitor can be 2 volts at the same capacitance and will do the same thing - the capacitance can be a couple hundred uf and it will do the same thing.

There is no such thing as charge distribution in a capacitor as you state or as you believe - you don't even know what a capacitor is - capacitors don't have electrons piling on plates - that is not what charges a capacitor so therefore, you do not understand what a capacitor even is as I have said.



The only thing you know about capacitors is what you were told to believe about them and all you are proving is not what you know but what you don't. You have simply learned how to conform to a mindset that was handed over to you so no thinking allowed.



This explains capacitance and is simple enough that even you could understand it - you don't have the intellectual honesty to admit learning anything from it, but for the record, you aren't qualified to debate anything happening in this thread, what a capacitor is or what a capacitor does. http://ericpdollard.com/wp-content/u...ic-dollard.pdf



You and iamnuts have until the end of next week to post a link to a linkedin profile, or something else showing your background in these matters because otherwise, you're both anonymous cowards shouting nonsense from the peanut gallery with your bullhorns - if you have one iota of confidence about the cynical drivel that you're so proudly ooze all over this thread, stop hiding behind a username. Deadline is March 16. The only exception is to start your own thread and post your nonsense there. You cannot state your point of what you want to see any more than you already have and no further post from either of you will add to that. 300 watts in and 2kw out? Not one more post will add to or emphasize that any more so post a new thread or leave.
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  #4678  
Old 03-08-2019, 09:51 AM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Recent.

From recent data from Turion,he’s getting 90 Watts (lamp)from a 500 watt motor,albeit running on 12volts.
The problem he’s got is that he’s about 21 lamps short of his claim.
Lens basically says.....If this, then that. So from my point of view, to circumvent
same, all one has to do is to do away with the “if this”.
John.
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Old 03-08-2019, 09:56 AM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Coward.

Aaron I’ll gladly leave your pathetic little circus.
John.
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Old 03-08-2019, 10:50 AM
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Mario Mario is offline
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About the Tesla coil patent. Yes it creates capacitance in the coil, and at resonance you get a tank circuit of infinite reactance, not zero, because in a bifilar setup coil inductance and capacitance are in parallel (can't put them in series), meaning inside the tank you get max amps bouncing back and forth between the capacitive charges in between the wires, and the magnetic field of the coil. It actually behaves just like it does if you would add an external parallel cap to the coil, except the Q is lower.

I'm saying this not because I just want to contribute BS to this thread, but because of the many many tests on the bench I did over the last years. The bifilar doesn't do anything magical to the generator coil, and before you start firing and flooding this thread with all kinds of comments and posts DO THE EXPERIMENT on the bench!!! Wind 2 coils with 2 wires of the dame length, except on one coil you cut the wire in half and wind the 2 halves in parallel and connect them in series. So you have one normal coil with X length of wire, and another bifilar coil which has the same X length of wire but bifilar. Next, measure the inductance of the two coils. It's the same. The difference is that the bifilar has some capacitance while the normal one barely hasn't any.
Now put the normal coil in front of a rotor with magnets on it. Now find at what speed you start getting no drag if you short the coil or using a defined load. THEN replace the normal coil with the bifilar coil and repeat. You will barely find any difference in behaviour. Now you can argue all you want, but do so ONLY after you did the experiment or shut up!!! I have no time to read theoretical stuff about this and that. I believe what I see on the bench.

Now I will repeat myself, I said this quite a couple of times on this thread. But again, do the experiment, THEN talk. There CAN be a difference between the 2 coils if the bifilar coil has high enough capacitance (or if you add parallel cap). If the relationship between its capacitance and inductance approaches a resonant peak, and I mean unloaded, the rotor will slow down, actually at resonance the motor will almost stop (having a variac to drive the motor helps to do the experiment). The huge amps developed in the tank work directly and completely against the inducing magnets! IF YOU SHORT an unloaded bifilar coil that is approaching resonance, it will speed up because you destroy resonance and remove the brake and get the illusion of magical speed up under load. Play with this, or also play with adding resonant caps to unloaded coils and see what happens when you approach resonance, but DO IT before talking theory.

Now, about the "real" speed up under load, or low drag effect we want. Since I've seen what I've seen on the bench I can not believe that the effect comes from the added capacitance of the bifilar coil. The matter of phase shifting and delaying the Lenz response to a point where it doesn't work against the inducing magnet, but actually help pushing it away, comes from elsewhere. To see this put ch1 of your scope to and unloaded generator coil that's in phase with another coil hooked to ch2 of the scope. Start adding loads to the second coil and depending on all the parameters you will see the phase shift between the "monitor" coil and the loaded coil.

So what are the parameters? I've tried from plain iron bolts up to fast ferrite cores. The no drag effect is way easier to obtain in plain iron, while I had to drive motors up to 10'000 RPM to see any phase shift with ferrite cores. The other parameter is the coil inductance, the higher(more wire turns), the easier it is to achieve phase shift, but at the cost of ohmic loss and less output. The other parameter being the load resistance/inductance. From what I've seen on the bench, all parameters are important, and only the experiment can teach you how they work in concert, but the core is probably the most important parameter.
With plain iron bolts I could achieve speed up at stupid low rpm compared to faster magnetic materials such as ferrite, even with low inductance coils, which means that the main component of this effect are the eddie currents inside the core itself. Huge in plain iron, low in ferrite. Another indicator of this is also the fact that if you let your setup run with an iron core in place and leave the coil unloaded, the iron core heats up very fast to very high temperatures. If you load the coil the iron gets doesn't heat up as much anymore, even at same speed. This means the load "takes off" or redirects and utilises some of the internal eddie currents which heat up the iron, this while shifting the phase response towards the inducing magnet and allowing for less drag on the prime mover. For this to happen you still need high enough inductance in your coil and the load with the right resistance.

Like Dave says, the problem with iron cores is that they heat up a lot. The solution we would conventionally apply, meaning reducing the core heating eddie currents with iron laminates or even ferrite, in this case reduces the phase shifting phenomenon. The solution probably is in the middle somewhere and only experiments can tell where in the middle... Dave seems to have found the right parameter balance.

One more thing about the parameter "load". In a conventional generator setup we seek load with a higher or equal impedance compared to the source internal impedance, to allow for maximum power transfer. In the low drag generators we actually have to create an impedance mismatch, else we won't see any phase shift.
For instance If our coil puts out 100V, we want a load with a low enough resistance/impedance to choke that 100V volts down to maybe half or even lower, it all depends on the other parameters...

have I seen OU yet? No... still working on the parameters...

I hope this contributes to clear some misconceptions. I repeat, do the experiments before you talk.

In my last too posts I asked Dave 2 pertinent questions about the generator I'm actually working on and got crickets... As soon as the naysayers chime in posts start to fly... Weird.......
I guess I'll just go back working in the background, which is what I did for the last 12 years.

cheers,
Mario
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