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  #4561  
Old 02-13-2019, 07:51 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Looking.

I keep on researching battery systems and came across the Toyota synergy
motor-generator system.
I was intrigued and tried out an ancient Prius.
I couldn't see how the electric transmission was going to be as efficient as
a conventional gearbox.
The old Prius was smooth and went OK. but was rather steady on hills.
What was impressive was the MPG.
The battery was a weedy 6.5ah. Ni Mh, 210v. prismatic. IMG_3846.JPG
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  #4562  
Old 02-13-2019, 11:17 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Found this.

http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...1&d=1550099834
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  #4563  
Old 02-14-2019, 10:28 AM
thaelin thaelin is offline
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Looking...

It was only supposed to get you to a set speed then over to gas. As a battery, it had no guts so to speak. Then there was the cost, around 9K in the beginning. That was the batt tech for the Chev Volt too. Designed for it in fact.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamnuts View Post
I keep on researching battery systems and came across the Toyota synergy
motor-generator system.
I was intrigued and tried out an ancient Prius.
I couldn't see how the electric transmission was going to be as efficient as
a conventional gearbox.
The old Prius was smooth and went OK. but was rather steady on hills.
What was impressive was the MPG.
The battery was a weedy 6.5ah. Ni Mh, 210v. prismatic. IMG_3846.JPG
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  #4564  
Old 02-14-2019, 12:29 PM
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Hello,

I got most of my equipment in yesterday. I ordered another DC load tester that has two channels. That way I can run a control load and also the load for the 3 battery test at the same time.

The two ways that I have now to log is with my USB data logger and with the mooshie meter. I am also going to take pictures as often as I can of my watt meters while the tests are running.

Here are a few staging pics for the weekend:






Lots of work to do!!!

-Altrez
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  #4565  
Old 02-14-2019, 05:40 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Mooshie meter

Hi Altrez,

Went to use mine this morning and failed to connect Bluetooth-wise. Batteries were down to 1.3V. I replaced them and back to normal. I'd heard these meters go thru the cells rapidly. Something to watch for and keep spares on-hand.

Regards,

bi
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  #4566  
Old 02-14-2019, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Hi Altrez,

Went to use mine this morning and failed to connect Bluetooth-wise. Batteries were down to 1.3V. I replaced them and back to normal. I'd heard these meters go thru the cells rapidly. Something to watch for and keep spares on-hand.

Regards,

bi
Hello bi,

Yes I have noticed that my battery's are already at 50%!

-Altrez
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  #4567  
Old 02-15-2019, 01:03 AM
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altrez altrez is offline
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A question for the group,

I have 4 brand new 7ah battery's that I am testing. They all show about the same voltage under load and capacity with my tester. It shows they are 66% full.

I put one on my charger at a rate of 3.6 amps and let it run for 90 minutes. The charger was still blinking saying it was not fully charged. So I took it off charge and let it rest for 2 hours. When I tested it again it showed 91% capacity.

I charged the second battery at less then one amp and the charger shut off in 10 minutes. I tested it 30 minutes later and it shows 78% capacity.

I am a bit confused as I do not understand what the correct charging rate should be and if I should leave it at the higher amp rate or just let it stop at a smaller charge?

The 3 amp charge had brought the battery up from 12.9 to 13.3 and was still going. the lower charge rate at less then an amp stops running at 13 volts.

The Analyzer is certified so I guess I do not understand what I should be looking for in a fully charged 7ah battery? Do I trust the smart charger or do I trust the tester?



-Altrez
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Last edited by altrez; 02-15-2019 at 01:16 AM.
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  #4568  
Old 02-15-2019, 04:17 PM
ricards ricards is offline
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altrez,

probably much better not to think the batteries are literal storage of energy..

the charger applies current to the batteries in order to reverse the chemical process done by discharging..

I came to this realization after charging my battery a few years back by about a week by a small pulsing circuit @ 2amps, only to find it not full at the end (13.8v).. it is a bad 70ah battery that is still usable for small loads.. I always wondered where all the energy went to..
Then I thought maybe I wasn't hitting the battery enough with high voltage so I built a larger pulsing circuit and charged the battery again @ 4 amps, overnight It went up over that..
after that I concluded that the battery will not charge no matter how much amperage your charges uses unless you hit it with a certain higher voltage... that it is a 100% chemical process.. and in no way related to the energy you use to charge it..

after reading this thread I see people telling the same thing..

your charger probably is designed only to charge at a certain voltage..
and your batteries though all new, have different conditions..

nice equipment btw..

good luck with the documentation..
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  #4569  
Old 02-15-2019, 04:27 PM
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altrez altrez is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricards View Post
altrez,

probably much better not to think the batteries are literal storage of energy..

the charger applies current to the batteries in order to reverse the chemical process done by discharging..

I came to this realization after charging my battery a few years back by about a week by a small pulsing circuit @ 2amps, only to find it not full at the end (13.8v).. it is a bad 70ah battery that is still usable for small loads.. I always wondered where all the energy went to..
Then I thought maybe I wasn't hitting the battery enough with high voltage so I built a larger pulsing circuit and charged the battery again @ 4 amps, overnight It went up over that..
after that I concluded that the battery will not charge no matter how much amperage your charges uses unless you hit it with a certain higher voltage... that it is a 100% chemical process.. and in no way related to the energy you use to charge it..

after reading this thread I see people telling the same thing..

your charger probably is designed only to charge at a certain voltage..
and your batteries though all new, have different conditions..

nice equipment btw..

good luck with the documentation..
ricards,

Thank you so much for the post. I do agree with you that its all about the battery's chemistry makeup and finding the right voltage. I am not sure how to test part of it yet so I am trying to get as close to I can of some type of starting point for solid documentation.

The 4 battery's all came from the same supplier and are the same type.

-Altrez
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  #4570  
Old 02-15-2019, 10:34 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Interesting

EV-Power | Your Complete Power Solutions
https://www.ev-power.eu
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  #4571  
Old 02-15-2019, 11:35 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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New to me.

Apparently these have been around for a long time but they're ne to me.
They look to have a lot of good points, really impressive is the number of
cycles and fast charge ability.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lith...tanate_battery.
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  #4572  
Old 02-16-2019, 03:34 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Impressive.

Wow! I could hardly believe this, could it be true?

1. Extremely Long Lifetime

As discussed above, the advanced nanotechnology consisting of lithium-titanate nanocrystals and their increased surface area are especially designed to enhance the lifetime of these batteries. With an over 30 times larger surface area, this technology is able to recharge substantially faster than its more traditional alternative, the Li-Ion battery. The cycle count of a Lithium Titanate battery is 20,000 in comparison of only 2000 in a regular lithium battery, marking a revolutionary approach to energy storage.
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  #4573  
Old 02-16-2019, 03:38 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Second attempt

Chart

http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...1&d=1550331454
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  #4574  
Old 02-17-2019, 11:58 AM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Example.

Someone who hasn't got a clue.

https://youtu.be/mzSvCHrKH2U
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  #4575  
Old 02-17-2019, 02:45 PM
RAMSET RAMSET is offline
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a very cool fellow

Over here post number 98
Alexkor Air Core Coil Radiant Charger

Experimenter and builder Skywatcher is pursuing what seems to be
a gain mechanism with similar format albeit unique to the claimant .

as always I will remove this post if too off topic

respectfully submitted
Chet K
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Last edited by RAMSET; 02-17-2019 at 03:10 PM.
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  #4576  
Old 02-17-2019, 10:46 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Thank you.

Thank you Chet,
I’ve been following this topic since about the end of 2008.
I don’t think there’s been much,if any, progress since then.
Skywatcher seems to share the idea of pulse changing to the 16v. mark.
I believe the idea is that,with a series of pulses, the higher voltage can be
applied without over heating the electrolyte and “boiling “ it off.
I found that LTO. battery had an anode with crystals that had a surface
area of around 100 sq.mtr. per gram compared to a normal li-ion which
had 3 sq.mtr. per gram.
Domestic storage starts to look feasible when you’re going to get 20+ years
life from a battery coupled with dramatic increases in the performance of
solar panels.
I would very much like it if someone could show me where there’s some
documented evidence for running LA’s at higher voltages. Even if it did work
I would imagine it would be impractical because of the time factor.
John.
PS. I was trying to think of a word and it’s just come to me. “Empirical “
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  #4577  
Old 02-18-2019, 02:23 AM
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altrez altrez is offline
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Hello All,

I have did tons of testing this weekend on my battery's and feel like I have got everything very close to being calibrated to spec.

My first test was with 1.5v D-Cell batteries. In the 3 battery setup I did charge a D-Cell battery just fine and tested it before and after with a battery load tester. It worked! The other batteries did drain of course but it worked.This is the tester I used to verify my results:



I could not hold the tester and take a pic at the same time so you will just have to trust me lol.

My test I am currently running is a load test on what will be my battery to charge on the 3bgs setup. I am running a 20 hour C-20 test.

Here is a pic of the DC load tester please notice it is at around 0.250ma



This is because I added an automatic shutoff circuit to kill the test at 10.5 volts and there is around a 100ma draw with that circuit.



Here is the true current from the battery.



Everything is in spec with theses tests. I am also logging the test battery's voltage.

Lots more to come.

-Altrez
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  #4578  
Old 02-18-2019, 06:58 AM
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Turion Turion is online now
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Talk to Bob French

We know from experience that you want to have voltage higher than the battery to charge it, (a dit over 16 volts is what I set my charging at most of the time, but you can use high voltage at NOT amps or milliamps, but microamps to achieve that charging, as long as you PROPERLY PULSE the batteries.
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  #4579  
Old 02-18-2019, 10:34 PM
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altrez altrez is offline
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Hello,

My test went well on the 1 battery. It matched everything perfectly. Now I am going to let it rest 24 hours and start the 3 battery test.



-Altrez
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  #4580  
Old 02-21-2019, 02:34 AM
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altrez altrez is offline
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Hello Everyone,

I am very close to my 3 battery test. I have setup my Fluke connect logging, my usb logging and my mooshiemetter logging. Its all been tested 14 different ways.

The 2 battery's are as charged as I can get them and I am only waiting for a few more meters to come in tomorrow to start the test.

One thing that i have found interesting is that I tested the split on the 3bs with my Analyzer and it showed this:



That's basically saying that there is less then 40% battery capacity on the split. However it does show the very heavy resistance with the dead battery 3 in place. It will be interesting to see how long it goes before the 10.5 shut off and whats the final charge on battery 3.

-Altrez
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Last edited by altrez; 02-21-2019 at 02:41 AM.
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  #4581  
Old 02-22-2019, 02:52 AM
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Hello,

The pretests are still going on lol. I am testing the logging with the moooshimeter and verifying its readings with other meters to make sure its close.





As you can see it looks to me almost perfect with my clamp meter.

I am also testing for heat and I am finding nothing over loaded but my hot hand print left on the table as you can see from my Flir igm amp clamp.



I am getting close to my first 3 battery test that I have ever fully logged. I have tested the 3 battery system 100's of times but I have never logged every aspect of the test. So this time I am going to try to do just that.

-Altrez
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  #4582  
Old 02-23-2019, 02:05 AM
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Hello All,

I have started my logging test on the 3 battery system.





We will see how it goes. The plan is to run it down to 10.5 volts and let that charged battery rest 24 hours and then test it.

-Altrez
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  #4583  
Old 02-23-2019, 01:11 PM
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altrez altrez is offline
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Good Morning Everyone,

The test has ended. The voltage on the split hit 10.5 volts around the 9 hour mark. I am still going over the logs but what I can tell so far is this. The battery in the 3rd position continued charging and gaining voltage until the shut off.

The battery Analyzer was pretty much spot on about the health of the split positive test if you go back and look it shows around a 44% capacity in my test. And that just about how long it took to hit 10.5 volts on the cut off.

This is what I have learned from this test.

1. There is a high resistance on the split caused by the discharged battery 3.
2. The battery in the 3rd position keeps charging and gaining voltage even when the split has hit below 11 volts.
3. The series battery's lost more voltage then the voltage gain on the charging battery but not by much.

After around 12 hours I am going to retest the battery's and see what they are at after rest.



-Altrez
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Last edited by altrez; 02-23-2019 at 03:25 PM.
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  #4584  
Old 02-23-2019, 01:51 PM
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Here is a screenshot of the Fluke data logger for the series battery's:



And here is a screenshot of my USB logger on the charging battery in position 3:



I still have to graph the data from the mooshimeter as well.

-Altrez
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  #4585  
Old 02-24-2019, 07:08 PM
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altrez altrez is offline
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Hello,

I have been going over all the data I collected with my tests. I find a few things interesting.

First here is the before and after tests on the Split the Positive:

Before


After


Next here is the tests on the battery in the 3rd position, the charging battery:

Before


After


The charging battery defiantly got a charge. And the Split+ shows dead as I would expect.

Now I also tested each battery in the series to see the energy drain on them:

Here is battery 2:

Before


After


Here is battery 3:

Before


After


The series battery's did discharge as I would expect right now it seems like I am just shuffling energy around the system. With that being said I still need to factor in the load that ran the whole time.

-Altrez
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Last edited by altrez; 02-24-2019 at 07:34 PM.
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  #4586  
Old 02-26-2019, 07:58 PM
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Circuit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by altrez View Post

The test has ended. The voltage on the split hit 10.5 volts around the 9 hour mark. I am still going over the logs but what I can tell so far is this. The battery in the 3rd position continued charging and gaining voltage

-Altrez
Hi Altrez,
What circuit did you use for this test?
What was the load?
Did you use boost converter(s) in the circuit?

Thanks,
Alex
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  #4587  
Old 02-26-2019, 10:05 PM
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altrez altrez is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hherby View Post
Hi Altrez,
What circuit did you use for this test?
What was the load?
Did you use boost converter(s) in the circuit?

Thanks,
Alex
Hello Alex,

I did not use a circuit with this test and for the load I used a DC load tester and no boost converters this time.

The goal was to test just the 3 battery's this run with nothing added. It went good the next test is coming up with the boost converters.



-Altrez
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  #4588  
Old 02-26-2019, 10:08 PM
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altrez altrez is offline
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To All,

Would anyone happen to have the most current copy of the 3 battery and 1 battery schematic?

Thanks!

-Altrez
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  #4589  
Old 02-26-2019, 11:00 PM
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Turion Turion is online now
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Circuits

Do you want them with or without the boost converter.
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  #4590  
Old 02-27-2019, 12:01 PM
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altrez altrez is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Do you want them with or without the boost converter.
Hello Turion,

Hope you are doing well! I would like them both please.



-Altrez
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