Energetic Forum  
Facebook Twitter Google+ Pinterest LinkedIn Delicious Digg Reddit WordPress StumbleUpon Tumblr Translate Addthis Aaron Murakami YouTube 2020 ENERGY CONFERENCE - PRE-REGISTER NOW!!!!

2020 Energy Science & Technology Conference
PRE-REGISTER NOW!!!
http://energyscienceconference.com


Go Back   Energetic Forum > >
   

Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

* NEW * BEDINI RPX BOOK & DVD SET: BEDINI RPX

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #4471  
Old 01-24-2019, 02:54 AM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,981
off topic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamnuts View Post
Iíve just been looking at a cut-away pic of a Honda hybrid motor.
It looks to me as if they are using oblong section wire for the windings.
I presume this is to produce a really compact winding which would give
a more concentrated field and an overall smaller motor.

What do your last several posts have to do with this 3 Battery discussion?
__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

Reply With Quote

Download SOLAR SECRETS by Peter Lindemann
Free - Get it now: Solar Secrets

  #4472  
Old 01-24-2019, 10:00 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 302
Ignore.

Aaron, either read and learn or ignore.
Down on the farm we use SLAís to maintain blood samples whilst in
transit. Each battery is logged and recharged. Maximum number of
uses is 5, then they are scrapped. If theyíre allowed to go below 11.8v
theyíre also out.
Iíve been interested in this topic for more than 10 years now and am
asking-has there been any progress?
Thyristors are brilliant bits of kit and enable the designer to do what
was once almost unimaginable.
Auto makers are using cutting edge technology in motor design and
smaller,cheaper and more efficient magnets are an important part.
Auto makers and phone makers are all up there when it comes to
battery management systems. I picked up an old phone my son had
ceased using,at least 5 years ago-and its still on that original batttery.
As far as my own switching system goes I soon found out that normal
relays were robbing my battery, SSRís did heat under higher loads as
theyíre never100% switched on and the Arduino was far too greedy.
I ended up deciding that 30amp bistable EMRís were the solution,they
just need a tickle and thatís all, no more wasted juice or heating.
I find it rather sad that quite a few guys are getting egged on to spend
their hard earned,and time, building inefficient,inappropriate systems
and ruining batteries to boot.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #4473  
Old 01-25-2019, 04:50 PM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 70
Results from 3BGS Inverter test

Finally, i can present my results from 3BGS inverter test...
But first, let me remind you my setup: 3 x 40 Amp Deep Cycle bats , a HQ 300 watt inverter (low voltage limit = 9,6 volt, idle current draw - 200 mA), and the load - 3 Led Bulbs, with a 2,070 Amp current draw. The load was used only at night, for a real day-by-day use.
Total Run was 37 Hours, 07 min, Rest time was 87 hours.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 03_Charge Batt 3BGS_Page_1.jpg (243.4 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg 03_Charge Batt 3BGS_Page_2.jpg (241.8 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg 03_Charge Batt 3BGS_Page_3.jpg (223.8 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg 03_Charge Batt 3BGS_Page_4.jpg (142.9 KB, 12 views)
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #4474  
Old 01-25-2019, 05:25 PM
bistander bistander is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,596
Comparison

Quote:
Originally Posted by axxelxavier View Post
Finally, i can present my results from 3BGS inverter test...
But first, let me remind you my setup: 3 x 40 Amp Deep Cycle bats , a HQ 300 watt inverter (low voltage limit = 9,6 volt, idle current draw - 200 mA), and the load - 3 Led Bulbs, with a 2,070 Amp current draw. The load was used only at night, for a real day-by-day use.
Total Run was 37 Hours, 07 min, Rest time was 87 hours.
This ^^^, compared to:

Quote:
Originally Posted by axxelxavier View Post
...
L.E. OK, so here are the results of second test:
40 Amp Deep Cycle Battery, discharged normally at 2,07 Amp/h down to 11,00 volt - RUN TIME: 18 Hours, 39 MIN, REST TIME: 32 Hours, 19 min Battery was used for lighting one room during night, with 3 led bulbs hooked to an inverter, so this is why it takes 4 days. In attachment, you have all the data.
It is time to start tests in 3BGS configuration + inverter, with 2 Batteries fully charged, and this depleted batt. I hope in this configuration it would last for more than 36 hours...
I'll be back with more results.

Best regards,
Teodor
2 times 18h39m = 37h18m. Very close to 37h07m in the second test.

Regards,

bi
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #4475  
Old 01-25-2019, 05:45 PM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 70
According to those numbers, my 3BGS inverter setup was nothing special, so using the batteries in 3BGS configuration or just hooking all batteries in parallel, would have the same result.
Resting time helped batteries to recover some energy, that is for sure.
It was a long test, because all reading was manually made, but I enjoy it.
Anyway, I wanted to share my result with you all.
It is time to test something different, this one was a bit disappointing...

L.E.
@Bi, I see your post now. I didn't manage to make a single post, because I can't upload all pictures together.
Yes, The results are very similar, so short say: no gain, nothing special using only the inverter, at least for my setup. Maybe somebody with bigger Trojan batteries can tell us more...

Best Regards.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 03_Charge Batt 3BGS_Page_5.jpg (186.3 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg 03_Charge Batt 3BGS_Page_6.jpg (160.2 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg 03_Charge Batt 3BGS_Page_7.jpg (131.9 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg 03_Charge Batt 3BGS_Page_8.jpg (185.4 KB, 8 views)
__________________
 

Last edited by axxelxavier; 01-25-2019 at 05:52 PM. Reason: Adding Info
Reply With Quote
  #4476  
Old 01-25-2019, 06:55 PM
hherby's Avatar
hherby hherby is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 86
3BGS inverter tests

Hi axxelxavier,
What was your circuit setup and did you rotate the batteries?
Thanks,
Alex
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #4477  
Old 01-26-2019, 10:20 AM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by axxelxavier View Post
Finally, i can present my results from 3BGS inverter test...
But first, let me remind you my setup: 3 x 40 Amp Deep Cycle bats , a HQ 300 watt inverter (low voltage limit = 9,6 volt, idle current draw - 200 mA), and the load - 3 Led Bulbs, with a 2,070 Amp current draw. The load was used only at night, for a real day-by-day use.
Total Run was 37 Hours, 07 min, Rest time was 87 hours.
@Alex, above are my setup info. I did not use a booster, I wasn't necessary, because my inverter have a very low voltage limit and also because the booster add some loses in system.
Yes, batteries was rotated. If you look at the pictures, number of the batteries (upper left of the image) differ from image to image.
In fact, each images represent the stage of battery rotations.
All data was inserted in excel for precis calculation, and, of course, for the graphic representations.
First battery setup was the longest one - 13 hour 47 min, followed by the third rotation - 7 Hours, 44 min.
In the end, because the cycle time was so short (@ 30 min), I decided to drain conventionally the power left in battery 1 and 2. It was @ 30 min for each battery.
Best regards,
Teodor
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #4478  
Old 01-27-2019, 02:50 AM
Turion's Avatar
Turion Turion is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,915
Boost module.

Running an inverter between the positives you are hitting battery 3 with 12 volts to begin with, which is your potential difference, but as the primary batteries go down and battery 3 charges, your potential difference drops below the standing voltage of battery 3. That's an incredibly costly way to try and charge battery 3, and your results will reflect that. The purpose of the boost module is to maintain the input voltage hitting battery 3 at 14.5 volts or HIGHER so that it is ALWAYS getting hit with a higher voltage than its standing voltage. Your results will reflect THAT as well.
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda
Reply With Quote
  #4479  
Old 01-27-2019, 10:29 AM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Running an inverter between the positives you are hitting battery 3 with 12 volts to begin with, which is your potential difference, but as the primary batteries go down and battery 3 charges, your potential difference drops below the standing voltage of battery 3. That's an incredibly costly way to try and charge battery 3, and your results will reflect that. The purpose of the boost module is to maintain the input voltage hitting battery 3 at 14.5 volts or HIGHER so that it is ALWAYS getting hit with a higher voltage than its standing voltage. Your results will reflect THAT as well.
Problem is that differential voltage is @14,5 volt in the beginning, and it's dropping to almost 9 volt in the end, so I don't think a normal booster would work for my 12 volt load.
It should be easier if my load voltage is on 24 volts, but my inverter is working on 12 volts... I will try later the modified motor setup on 24 volts, but after I will find a way to cut the big noise.
So, any suggestion? I want to try again with the inverter and booster, but what setup to choose? 3BGS with booster (I am not quite sure, though, if it will work, because of the big voltage in the beginning, or the setup with 2 batteries, who need booster to work?
Which should be the most efficient?
Best regards,
Teodor
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #4480  
Old 01-27-2019, 12:39 PM
Sawt2's Avatar
Sawt2 Sawt2 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by axxelxavier View Post
Problem is that differential voltage is @14,5 volt in the beginning, and it's dropping to almost 9 volt in the end, so I don't think a normal booster would work for my 12 volt load.
It should be easier if my load voltage is on 24 volts, but my inverter is working on 12 volts... I will try later the modified motor setup on 24 volts, but after I will find a way to cut the big noise.
So, any suggestion? I want to try again with the inverter and booster, but what setup to choose? 3BGS with booster (I am not quite sure, though, if it will work, because of the big voltage in the beginning, or the setup with 2 batteries, who need booster to work?
Which should be the most efficient?
Best regards,
Teodor
Not sure what kind of inverter you have, most of the ones I have used over the years can handle up 15-16 volts then automatically shuts off around 10-10.5 volts. Most of the boost modules allow you to adjust the voltage, so you could adjust it so ithe initial differential doesn't exceed your inverter's upper limit.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #4481  
Old 01-27-2019, 05:04 PM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawt2 View Post
Not sure what kind of inverter you have, most of the ones I have used over the years can handle up 15-16 volts then automatically shuts off around 10-10.5 volts. Most of the boost modules allow you to adjust the voltage, so you could adjust it so ithe initial differential doesn't exceed your inverter's upper limit.
About booster, I thought there must be a voltage difference between in and out, in order to work properly. Today I've learned I was wrong, so a new test began.
About my inverter, is is 300 watt inverter, nothing special, except it's working between 9,6 - 15 volts, so I hooked up to my setup the booster set to 14,7 volt on output.
I have the data from previous test, so the differences should be visible from the very first run.
Best regards,
Teodor
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #4482  
Old 01-27-2019, 06:48 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 302
In for a shock!

Well,a shock is just what I got when I embarked on my first 24/7 project.
How those little losses add up to ruin the results.
When you think about it, that little remote with a coin cell locks your car
for years. My greedy Arduino Leonardo was responsible for a lot of the
grief, that would have to go. Itís possible to do away with the development
board and just use the chip.Nick Gammon on the Arduino forum has a
detailed post on how to minimise current draw, he knows every trick in the
book.
When it comes to lead acid batteries thereís a point most people donít seem
to take in to account, that is the RTE,or round trip efficiency, a common
figure quoted is somewhere between 90 and 95 per cent,this means that
every time you charge you lose at least 5 per cent.
To get a decent life out of lead acid itís good to go at least 50per cent more
capacity than you need.Sulphation rears itís ugly head when you get below
about 12.3v.
Switching has to be watched too, if you have half a dozen relays at 99.5%
and say the average consumption is 200 Watts that adds up to a fair
chunk over the 8000 odd hours a year.
I donít care if you think Iím an idiot, but as far as Iím concerned making
the most of your hard earned energy canít be bad.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #4483  
Old 01-27-2019, 08:50 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 302
Youtube.

https://youtu.be/npc3uzEVvc0
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #4484  
Old 01-27-2019, 11:05 PM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,981
topping charge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamnuts View Post
When it comes to lead acid batteries thereís a point most people donít seem
to take in to account, that is the RTE,or round trip efficiency, a common
figure quoted is somewhere between 90 and 95 per cent,this means that
every time you charge you lose at least 5 per cent.
To get a decent life out of lead acid itís good to go at least 50per cent more
capacity than you need.Sulphation rears itís ugly head when you get below
about 12.3v.

If you actually knew how batteries work, you can get an INCREASE in capacity with each charge cycle up to 10% above the manufacturers rated capacity and keep it there virtually indefinitely. And you can do this while discharging deep cycles down to 10.5 volts every single time as the chemistry is 100% reversible to like-new condition. You don't seem to understand how to deliver a true topping charge to a lead acid battery and what to look for in order to know when it is actually ready.
__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

Reply With Quote
  #4485  
Old 01-28-2019, 02:13 AM
Sawt2's Avatar
Sawt2 Sawt2 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by axxelxavier View Post
About booster, I thought there must be a voltage difference between in and out, in order to work properly. Today I've learned I was wrong, so a new test began.
About my inverter, is is 300 watt inverter, nothing special, except it's working between 9,6 - 15 volts, so I hooked up to my setup the booster set to 14,7 volt on output.
I have the data from previous test, so the differences should be visible from the very first run.
Best regards,
Teodor
Great, I hope your experiments go well for you.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #4486  
Old 01-28-2019, 04:38 PM
Turion's Avatar
Turion Turion is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,915
info

Here is the main reason you don't want to patent your invention

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invention_Secrecy_Act

They basically kill the patent, put a gag order on you so you can't even talk about your idea, and you are given NO compensation. Better to sell it to the highest bidder for whatever you can get than to try and patent it and end up with nothing. I WOULD say the best idea is to disclose it on a forum like THIS, but nobody will believe you, so that's a waste. Better to sell it for what you can get.
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda
Reply With Quote
  #4487  
Old 01-28-2019, 05:01 PM
bistander bistander is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,596
Easy solution

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Here is the main reason you don't want to patent your invention

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invention_Secrecy_Act

They basically kill the patent, put a gag order on you so you can't even talk about your idea, and you are given NO compensation. Better to sell it to the highest bidder for whatever you can get than to try and patent it and end up with nothing. I WOULD say the best idea is to disclose it on a forum like THIS, but nobody will believe you, so that's a waste. Better to sell it for what you can get.
All you have to do is provide proof or, at least, provide supporting evidence of your claims. People don't believe you when you refuse to support your claims with the proof you say that you have.

Regards,

bi
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #4488  
Old 01-28-2019, 05:15 PM
bistander bistander is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,596
Battery charging

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Running an inverter between the positives you are hitting battery 3 with 12 volts to begin with, which is your potential difference, but as the primary batteries go down and battery 3 charges, your potential difference drops below the standing voltage of battery 3. That's an incredibly costly way to try and charge battery 3, and your results will reflect that. The purpose of the boost module is to maintain the input voltage hitting battery 3 at 14.5 volts or HIGHER so that it is ALWAYS getting hit with a higher voltage than its standing voltage. Your results will reflect THAT as well.
Hi Turion,

So what is inferred by your statement is that you do not subscribe to the universally accepted charge algorithm which starts with the bulk phase of constant current, often noted as CC/CV, constant current followed by constant voltage.

You also have said on numerous occasions to keep current at or below C/20. So it would appear that axxelxavier has properly controlled his experiment. Can you show us test data where you, or someone, has boosted voltage like you say and been able to maintain the C/20 current level?

Thanks,

bi
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #4489  
Old 01-28-2019, 05:34 PM
Turion's Avatar
Turion Turion is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,915
Researchers

hi,
The kind of people I am interested in working with are those that are curious enough and dedicated enough to see something of interest and research it for themselves. Not those who demand to be spoon fed everything. Matt and I know what we know because we investigated and researched. NOT because we stood around with our hands in our pockets waiting for ANYONE to prove ANYTHING to us.

You canít even imagine the number if things I built that DIDNíT work before I found something that did. If you donít want to build and test this stuff, DONíT. But why do you continue to hang around here if youíre not going to build???
It only makes sense if you are a disinformation agent trying to keep people from exploring this avenue.
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda
Reply With Quote
  #4490  
Old 01-28-2019, 06:06 PM
bistander bistander is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,596
Spoon fed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
hi,
The kind of people I am interested in working with are those that are curious enough and dedicated enough to see something of interest and research it for themselves. Not those who demand to be spoon fed everything. Matt and I know what we know because we investigated and researched. NOT because we stood around with our hands in our pockets waiting for ANYONE to prove ANYTHING to us.

You canít even imagine the number if things I built that DIDNíT work before I found something that did. If you donít want to build and test this stuff, DONíT. But why do you continue to hang around here if youíre not going to build???
It only makes sense if you are a disinformation agent trying to keep people from exploring this avenue.
I still do not understand how requesting proof of your claim equates to "spoon fed".

But enough.

bi
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #4491  
Old 01-28-2019, 06:25 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 302
Empirical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
If you actually knew how batteries work, you can get an INCREASE in capacity with each charge cycle up to 10% above the manufacturers rated capacity and keep it there virtually indefinitely. And you can do this while discharging deep cycles down to 10.5 volts every single time as the chemistry is 100% reversible to like-new condition. You don't seem to understand how to deliver a true topping charge to a lead acid battery and what to look for in order to know when it is actually ready.
Just point me to the empirical and Iíll believe you.
Bedini sparked my interest and I wasted a shed load of time on that.
Nobody I know ever had success with Bedini motors.
Iíve ruined a good few batteries in my time.
Itís all to easy to make a claim but far more difficult to prove it!
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #4492  
Old 01-28-2019, 06:41 PM
Turion's Avatar
Turion Turion is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,915
Spoon Fed

If you want proof, build an accurate replication. Then you will have it. I will not provide it. Because what YOU know or don't know is up to YOU and YOUR research. It is not up to me or mine. If you don't want to do that, why hang around here? You cannot seem to answer THAT question.
__________________
"I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds
"Try Not! Do or do not. There is no 'Try' ". Yoda
Reply With Quote
  #4493  
Old 01-28-2019, 07:02 PM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 70
Just a quick update.
As I told you, my test now it's using a booster, set on 14,7 volts on the output.
Total time running, so far, is 6 hours, 43 min, and battery 3 seems to be charged faster, BUT, C20 rate are exceeded, because current draw on the input of the booster (which was in the beginning at 2 amps) now is on 2,62 Amp, and it's increasing (differential voltage on the input = 11,47 volts). On the output of the DC booster (going to the inverter), current draw is 1,74 amp.
Not sure what to do, though. I think I am going to let the system to work for 2 more hours, and I am going to measure the current draw before stop it. If it will exceed 4 Amp, I think I am going to shut down my test. I cannot afford to kill a good battery...
Now I am using a 150 watt, like the first image in the attachment, with no current limit.
I have also a bigger one (1200 watt - second image in the attachment) which have an option to limit current... this should be better?
Best regards,
Teodor
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20120618152314601(1).JPG (61.6 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg descărcare.jpg (13.9 KB, 6 views)
__________________
 

Last edited by axxelxavier; 01-28-2019 at 07:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4494  
Old 01-28-2019, 07:41 PM
bistander bistander is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,596
I'll tell you why

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
If you want proof, build an accurate replication. Then you will have it. I will not provide it. Because what YOU know or don't know is up to YOU and YOUR research. It is not up to me or mine. If you don't want to do that, why hang around here? You cannot seem to answer THAT question.
Looking for proof of claims of free energy and/or over unity made people like you. And in the process to expose falsehoods whether they be honest mistakes or deliberate fraud. I have learned a great deal not only about science but also about human nature. This is an open forum and as long as I don't rub Aaron too much, I am entitled to post reasonable questions and pertinent statements. The method to make me stop is to post truth, facts, evidence and proof.

Simple, right?

bi
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #4495  
Old 01-28-2019, 09:22 PM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,981
RTA irrelevant

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamnuts View Post
Just point me to the empirical and I’ll believe you.
Bedini sparked my interest and I wasted a shed load of time on that.
Nobody I know ever had success with Bedini motors.
I’ve ruined a good few batteries in my time.
It’s all to easy to make a claim but far more difficult to prove it!
Nearly $2 million in R & D went into proving just that showing the charging chart in the "battery bible" is correct. I don't need to prove anything to you. Thousands of customers around the world have benefited over the years with the EnergenX chargers that accomplish this topping charge.

I know people that have not gotten results and most have not paid attention to what has been said - sounds like you fit this category. Has been proven time and time again. There are countless charge and discharge graphs that have been posted for years showing an increase in capacity with each successive charge. This is indisputable. That is with old batteries that have been brought back. With new batteries, you can keep the full capacity almost indefinitely if topped properly.

The topping charge chart from the battery bible is in this free book and has been there for years Free Solar Secrets or you can download the battery bible. Anyone can put a CBA-IV or similar on a battery while charging it up for the charge graph, charge it until you see the voltage dip at the top around 15.1-15.3, then it is done.

Taking the S2A12 and putting it on a brand new battery such as a 100Ah lead acid will instantly push the capacity to about 110Ah on the very first charge. I've done that countless times and so many many others.

Losing 5% on each charge? That's beyond ridiculous - why don't you show a chart of losing 5% on each cycle and show all of us here when a deep cycle drops below 10.5 volts? You can do that in Excel - start with full capacity then reduce by 5%, then from that total reduce by 5% and so on. You will prove one thing - you are spreading nonsense that has no basis in reality because everyone's experience will show that their deep cycles last many more charge cycles than what you are claiming.

What you claim can only apply to those who do not charge their batteries properly by using conventional charges that only go to 13.8 to 14.8 if you're lucky. Too many are conditioned to believe you can charge a battery to those low voltages, then the voltage settles at 12.6 or above and they think that is evidence the battery is charged when it is not. So obviously with those low voltages, there will be sulfation left over, but this forum is full of members who know better who have followed the methods that provide better results for a long time.

With a 35Ah deep cycle, your bogus claim means after the 10th charge cycle, the battery's capacity is only 22Ah. Do you actually expect anyone to believe that? After 10 charge cycles a battery has lost 1/3 of it's capacity? Even with a conventional charger that chronically under charges a battery, you will have way more than 2/3 of the capacity left after 10 charges.

There are 225Ah deep cycle flooded cell lead acids that used to be at EnergenX that are 10-15 years old, which have had hundreds if not thousands of charge/discharge cycles and they are still almost like new. All the plug in and solar charge controllers were tested on the bench before getting shipped. The "load box" would drain the battery(s), then the charger would charge them back up. This was done countless times showing that obviously when giving the true topping charge, it throws out your belief system on the matter, which is irrelevant to those charging their batteries properly. And the forklift? Those batteries were dead and abused when they got that forklift many years ago. We still have that forklift and the batteries are still in excellent shape.

I would challenge you or anyone else who thinks like you to a simple test. Get a CBA-IV or anything that can graph the charging cycle on a laptop. Get a constant voltage constant current adjustable power supply and set it at 15.3 volts, short the output leads and adjust the current to about 2 amps - use a 35Ah deep cycle for example and un-short the leads. Turn power off and wait until the battery is drained. Make sure it is full charged as in like new charge. Drain with 20 hour load until it drops to 10.5 volts. Remove load and hook up the power supply. When you see the voltage get to about 15.1-15.3 volts, you will see a point when the voltage dips. That dip means the impedance of the battery dropped because the final layers of sulfation dissolved back to solution making it more conductive, therefore, there is less back pressure to the voltage so it drops. That is the even you need to look for, which means you reversed the chemistry 100% to like new condition. Repeat that 10 times and tell me if you have lost 5% on each cycle. According to you, on the 10th charge cycle, the battery will only have 22Ah remaining with a 5% loss of the remaining total on each cycle. You will become bored with this test because you will see you get the same capacity out of it every single time. The RTA concept is only necessary to explain the phenomena of losing capacity with crappy charging with crappy chargers but who wants crappy charging methods when batteries cost so much? Not me!
__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami


Last edited by Aaron; 01-28-2019 at 09:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4496  
Old 01-28-2019, 09:27 PM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,981
this thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Looking for proof of claims of free energy and/or over unity made people like you. And in the process to expose falsehoods whether they be honest mistakes or deliberate fraud. I have learned a great deal not only about science but also about human nature. This is an open forum and as long as I don't rub Aaron too much, I am entitled to post reasonable questions and pertinent statements. The method to make me stop is to post truth, facts, evidence and proof.

Simple, right?

bi

I already asked you to leave this thread due to your disruptions. You came back in and Turion continued the conversation with you so feel free to post until you are asked to leave by him.

I have seen you have not done what Turion has recommended. That's up to you, but if you don't replicate exactly without putting your own spin on things, then what do you expect? You don't have to answer - I'm just saying.



You're always free to start your own thread to critique the work here without getting in the way of progress of filling up the thread with a bunch of posts that people have to filter out in order to get to the message.
__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

Reply With Quote
  #4497  
Old 01-28-2019, 10:14 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 302
Sorry.

Sorry Aaron,but you donít even understand RTE.
John.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #4498  
Old 01-29-2019, 07:36 AM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,981
increase in capacity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamnuts View Post
Sorry Aaron,but you don’t even understand RTE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamnuts View Post
John.

I told you a battery can gain in capacity on each charge cycle until it gets to a plateau and you disputed that. My hands on experience proving that true is infinitely more valuable than your claims of failure. You've already disqualified yourself as knowing anything about the nature of batteries, especially if you've never experienced an increase in the batteries capacity with each successive discharge/charge cycle. This is the CONTEXT I am writing about. Saying a battery loses 5% every time it is charged is like saying a gas tank loses 5% every time it gets filled up - perhaps English is not your native language.

Charging a battery with spikes - you're lucky if you can measure 20% leaving the coil on a SG for example, yet what do you get out of the battery? 80-85% at minimum with a decent build or 90-95% with an excellent build - that is compared to what left the input battery and not compared to what is measured leaving the output of the SG. If I compared it to what is measured leaving the SG in spikes, I could claim the round trip efficiency is 400%. You would argue that without ever asking if it is a comparison to what left the input battery of the SG or what left the output of the SG.

"
I find it rather sad that quite a few guys are getting egged on to spend
their hard earned,and time, building inefficient,inappropriate systems
and ruining batteries to boot."

Is that your opinion of what has been shared and taught in this discussion thread?

This image shows REAL results that countless people have achieved with charging lead acid batteries - rejuvenating old batteries and having an increase in capacity on each charge cycle - same thing with new batteries to a lesser degree. Putting a 2A12 on a Harbor Freight 35Ah battery for one charge cycle will allow it to discharge about 39Ah on the very next cycle - increase in capacity whether you like it or not.


__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

Reply With Quote
  #4499  
Old 01-29-2019, 10:28 AM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 302
Graph.

chart_lead1.jpg
Attached Images
File Type: jpg chart_lead1.jpg (17.9 KB, 21 views)
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #4500  
Old 01-29-2019, 01:15 PM
hherby's Avatar
hherby hherby is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by axxelxavier View Post
Just a quick update.
As I told you, my test now it's using a booster, set on 14,7 volts on the output.
Total time running, so far, is 6 hours, 43 min, and battery 3 seems to be charged faster, BUT, C20 rate are exceeded, because current draw on the input of the booster (which was in the beginning at 2 amps) now is on 2,62 Amp, and it's increasing (differential voltage on the input = 11,47 volts). On the output of the DC booster (going to the inverter), current draw is 1,74 amp.
Not sure what to do, though. I think I am going to let the system to work for 2 more hours, and I am going to measure the current draw before stop it. If it will exceed 4 Amp, I think I am going to shut down my test. I cannot afford to kill a good battery...
Now I am using a 150 watt, like the first image in the attachment, with no current limit.
I have also a bigger one (1200 watt - second image in the attachment) which have an option to limit current... this should be better?
Best regards,
Teodor
Connect the second boost convertor to battery 3, Bat 3 pos to boost2 in pos, bat 3 neg to boost2 in neg, boost2 out pos to bat 2 pos (top positive of series connected batteries 1 and 2). Slowly adjust the boost2 output to slow down the drain on the series batteries by recirculating current going to bat 3. At one point you can come to a balance where the voltages stay very steady for a long time.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
save, system, generating, battery

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Please consider supporting Energetic Forum with a voluntary monthly subscription.

Choose your voluntary subscription

For one-time donations, please use the below button.


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v1.4.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.8 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2007-2015 Copyright - Energetic Forum - All Rights Reserved

Bedini RPX Sideband Generator

Tesla Chargers