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  #4351  
Old 11-28-2018, 11:04 PM
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How can the boost module block the charge impulse from the motor when the motor is running between the OUTPUT of the boost module and the battery. If you are running it any other way,no wonder you can’t get positive results.
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  #4352  
Old 11-29-2018, 12:39 AM
bistander bistander is online now
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Which battery

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How can the boost module block the charge impulse from the motor when the motor is running between the OUTPUT of the boost module and the battery. If you are running it any other way,no wonder you canít get positive results.
That battery is being charged by the motor running current. The magic pulse from the Matt modded motor is supposed to go to the source battery, isn't it?

A diagram would help.
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  #4353  
Old 11-29-2018, 01:01 AM
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Diagram?

SSUPPOSEDLY you already built this from previously (dozens of times) posted diagrams, yet you do not seem to know how it goes together. In BOTH the 3 battery circuit and the single battery circuit the output of the boost goes to the positive of the motor and the negative of the motor goes to battery 3 in the 3 battery setup or to the positive of the primary in the single battery setup. In ZERO diagrams have I shown the output of the motor going to the boost converter.

There are SONE diagrams that show a SECOND boost converter running directly off battery 3, but thatís s whole different story.
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  #4354  
Old 11-29-2018, 01:42 AM
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Email

Dave I sent you an email about the 3BGS diagram. Did you receive it?

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  #4355  
Old 11-29-2018, 02:17 AM
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E mail

No. I didnít get an email from you.
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  #4356  
Old 11-29-2018, 03:09 AM
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Resent

Sorry I resent the email. IPhone doesn't send email sometimes.
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  #4357  
Old 11-29-2018, 03:17 AM
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Circuits

Here are the two circuits I am working with.
Attached Images
File Type: png 2Advanced 3 Bttery system..png (119.0 KB, 153 views)
File Type: png Single Batery Circuit.png (18.2 KB, 80 views)
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  #4358  
Old 11-29-2018, 12:55 PM
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Circuits

Thanks Dave,
Now I see what you referred to in the first email.

Time to think over nuked cup of coffee.
wantomake
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  #4359  
Old 11-29-2018, 01:48 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Pulse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Here are the two circuits I am working with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
That battery is being charged by the motor running current. The magic pulse from the Matt modded motor is supposed to go to the source battery, isn't it?

A diagram would help.
Thanks.


3BGS with BOOST CONVERTER

So the current flows out of the converter output + into the motor +. Then it flows out of motor - into battery C +. Current will flow from battery C - into battery B -. Because current flows from + to - inside battery C, it charges battery C.

The magic pulse from the Matt modded motor flows the opposite way, out of the motor + into the + source terminal, which is usually a battery which will accept the pulse. However in this case, the motor + is connected to converter output +. There is a diode inside the converter which blocks current from flowing in this direction. The result is that this pulse never reaches the source battery (B) but instead increases the converter output capacitor charge, which is inconsequential.

bi
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  #4360  
Old 11-29-2018, 02:35 PM
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Charging

I'm so glad that you know everything about how this system works.
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  #4361  
Old 11-29-2018, 02:53 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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You're welcome

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I'm so glad that you know everything about how this system works.
It is just circuit analysis.
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  #4362  
Old 11-29-2018, 03:30 PM
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Analysis

Unfortunately, your analysis is incorrect. You have already stated that both current and voltage go from the motor to battery 3. Because this is a PULSE motor with a mechanically built in off and on time, the 3rd battery receives a PULSE of current and voltage from the motor. Since the boost module sets the voltage, what is hitting battery 3 is two volts higher than the battery standing voltage at whatever current comes out of the motor. THAT is the “magic pulse” the third battery gets, just like it would from a store bought battery charger.


The boost module does NOT eliminate this effect as you claim. If you don’t even understand how this system works, how can you “claim” that it doesn’t do what we say it does? Because SOME of the energy sent into the motor is NOT consumed by the motor, but passed right THRIUGH it to the 3rd battery, charging it, you can get extended run times from this setup by rotating the batteries. PERIOD

As for your statement that this is insignificant because you can’t run your house on this system. You are correct. You cannot. We never said you could. We gave this away to get people to think outside the box and understand some basic principles of operation. Those principles CAN be used to build a system that WILL run your house if you really understand what is going on with this basic system. We have talked about ALL the needed components for that system on this and the basic free energy device thread. And that’s all we are giving away.
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Last edited by Turion; 11-29-2018 at 04:19 PM.
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  #4363  
Old 11-29-2018, 04:24 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Matt modded motor pulse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Unfortunately, your analysis is incorrect. You have already stated that both current and voltage go from the motor to battery 3. Because this is a PULSE motor with a mechanically built in off and on time, the 3rd battery receives a PULSE of current and voltage from the motor. Since the boost module sets the voltage, what is hitting battery 3 is two volts higher than the battery standing voltage at whatever current cones out of the motor. THAT is the ďmagic pulseĒ the third battery gets, just like it would from a store bought battery charger.


The boost module does NOT eliminate this effect as you claim. If you donít even understand how this system works, how can you ďclaimĒ that it doesnít do what we say it does? Because SOME of the energy sent into the motor isNOT consumed by the motor, but passed right THRIUGH it to the 4rd battery, charging it, you can get extended run times from this setup by rotating the batteries. PERIOD
This is the pulse which Matt claims is responsible for increased energy.



Screenshot from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYcg...be&app=desktop

bi
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File Type: png MattModMagicPulse.png (767.0 KB, 297 views)
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  #4364  
Old 11-29-2018, 04:47 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Not really what I said

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
...
As for your statement that this is insignificant because you canít run your house on this system. ...
What I said was
Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
...
Back to the balance question, or answer, it looks like sizing the 3bgs system for the load is the only way. That doesn't seem practical for a home power system where the load is constantly changing.
...
Not really what you claim was my statement, unless you're referring to some other post.
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  #4365  
Old 11-29-2018, 05:24 PM
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Claims

You have repeatedly said what we are showing is either a mistake on our part or insignificant. You also stated that it doesn’t seem practical for a home power system. I just lumped that all together. Just to show how mistaken you are.

As to the screen shot and the video... is that Matt in the video the screen shot is from? Nah. It’s Luc. Where does Matt make the claim that the output of the boost module is charging the primary? OR the output directly from the motor? He doesn’t. Do we believe the primary gets a charge up the negative line? Yes we do, but NOT directly from the boost module OR the motor. It comes down the negative from battery 3.

The question WAS, does Matt’s motor provide a charging pulse to battery 3. The answer is, yes it does. MInSDIRECTION on YOUR part doesn’t change the FACTS. Is this a high voltage pulse? Yes, because the coils in the motor collapse and that charging spike hits battery 3. Is this a HIGHER voltage than what was put into the motor as I have tried to explain before. Yes it IS. Is it CONSTANT high voltage? Of course not. It is a high voltage spike. We were talking about whether or not Matt’s motor sends a charging pulse to battery 3, and your “analysis” was wrong. Since you can never admit you are WRING you are attempting to divert the discussion to something else, as you always do b
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Last edited by Turion; 11-29-2018 at 05:27 PM.
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  #4366  
Old 11-29-2018, 06:16 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Pulse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
... Where does Matt make the claim that the output of the boost module is charging the primary? OR the output directly from the motor? ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
...
That returned current is because of the HUGE spike of voltage returned to the battery. This huge spike slows the ions in the battery and allows the battery to take a charge. This has been proven over and over for at least the last decade looking a John Bedini's stuff.
You cannot return energy to a battery that is discharging in a format that is similar to what is discharging. It has to be high voltage. It has to be another flavor.
...
Matt
Here he is saying that the pulse from the modded motor goes into the source (discharging) battery. It was the whole purpose of the deal about rotation of the brush plate to get this pulse and the subject of the gotoluc vids even doing it over using a battery instead of the power supply. Matt says nothing of which I am aware about the modded motor benefitting the charge battery. But I haven't read everything he's written.

I don't suppose you have any evidence or test data showing improved performance of charging with the waveform from the Matt modded motor vs standard DC charging?

bi
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  #4367  
Old 11-29-2018, 06:31 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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The question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
...
The question WAS, does Mattís motor provide a charging pulse to battery 3. ...
No, this was the question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Hi citfta,
...BTW, do you find it odd that Turion insists on the Matt modded motor and a boost converter when the converter contains a diode which blocks any "charge" pulse going to the battery from the motor? ...
bi
I think it was clear from the start I was talking about the source battery, the only battery in the system which I built and A & B in the 3bgs diagram.

No misdirection from me.

bi
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  #4368  
Old 11-29-2018, 10:29 PM
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Repeat

Again, the boost module is NOT between the output of the motor and battery 3 in the 3 battery system or the single battery in the one battery circuit you built. The higher voltage from the boost module as well as current go to the positive of the motor, THROUGH the motor, and hit the battery on the other side just like a battery charger, which is what we have ALWAYS claimed. Do you dispute this or are you AGAIN going to try to divert the discussion. The boost moduke does NOT block THIS charge pulse as YOU claim, which is why it is so important. You still don’t get it. You continue to IGNORE what comes out of the motor, which is the whole point of this circuit AND the important contribution of Matt’s motor. Either you are really dense or are purposely trying to confuse people.
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Last edited by Turion; 11-29-2018 at 10:31 PM.
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  #4369  
Old 11-29-2018, 11:08 PM
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bistander, please
I am tired of reading the same things again and again. It does not matter whether Mat said this or that. Or if you said this or that. Please do the tests as instructed or go away. Many of us had positive results. That's why we keep on following this thread. The rest can leave us alone. Even if it is a dream let us dream please.
We like that. Ok? You are trying so much to prove something. Who asked you to. Your consciousness I expect. Ok we got your point. Let's move on now.
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  #4370  
Old 11-29-2018, 11:26 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Pictures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Again, the boost module is NOT between the output of the motor and battery 3 in the 3 battery system or the single battery in the one battery circuit you built. The higher voltage from the boost module as well as current go to the positive of the motor, THROUGH the motor, and hit the battery on the other side just like a battery charger, which is what we have ALWAYS claimed. Do you dispute this or are you AGAIN going to try to divert the discussion. The boost moduke does NOT block THIS charge pulse as YOU claim, which is why it is so important. You still donít get it. You continue to IGNORE what comes out of the motor, which is the whole point of this circuit AND the important contribution of Mattís motor. Either you are really dense or are purposely trying to confuse people.
This is exactly what I said in post #4359. Guess I need to draw a picture. And this is how Matt has described the charge pulse from his modded motor. The blue arrows represent the intended path of the charge pulse current from the Matt modded motor back to the source battery. However there is a diode inside the boost converter which blocks current in this direction.







Attached Images
File Type: png Turion1BGS.png (16.0 KB, 253 views)
File Type: png Turion3BGS.png (116.1 KB, 245 views)
File Type: png BoostConverter.png (182.3 KB, 253 views)
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  #4371  
Old 11-29-2018, 11:29 PM
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Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by liber63 View Post
bistander, please
I am tired of reading the same things again and again. It does not matter whether Mat said this or that. Or if you said this or that. Please do the tests as instructed or go away. Many of us had positive results. That's why we keep on following this thread. The rest can leave us alone. Even if it is a dream let us dream please.
We like that. Ok? You are trying so much to prove something. Who asked you to. Your consciousness I expect. Ok we got your point. Let's move on now.
I did the tests and posted my results. Please post your results. Thanks.

bi
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  #4372  
Old 11-29-2018, 11:31 PM
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Wrong

You refuse to listen and I am done arguing with you. Think what you want.
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  #4373  
Old 11-29-2018, 11:52 PM
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Bistander,


I am going to one last time try to get you to see where you are wrong. Dave has said at least twice today that the pulses from the NEGATIVE side of the motor are the ones that help charge the battery that is on the charge side. Your drawings with the blue marks are NOT correct. As the motor rotates so that the brushes make contact with the armature windings the cap in the boost module will discharge THROUGH the motor to the charging battery and then back to the ground connection. I believe Dave has the negative of the boost module in the wrong place on the 3BGS drawing you posted. It should go to ground.

On the 1GBS the almost same thing happens except the NEGATIVE side of the motor goes back to the same battery that is supplying power for the boost module. Since those pulses are going to the POSITIVE of that battery it helps to keep that battery charged. So your blue arrows are AGAIN on the wrong side of the motor.

If you still refuse to accept this explanation then I am sorry. But I don't have any more time to waste explaining the same thing over and over again.

Carroll
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  #4374  
Old 11-30-2018, 01:25 AM
bistander bistander is online now
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No dispute

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
... The higher voltage from the boost module as well as current go to the positive of the motor, THROUGH the motor, and hit the battery on the other side just like a battery charger, which is what we have ALWAYS claimed. Do you dispute this or are you AGAIN going to try to divert the discussion. ...
I said the exact same thing at the beginning of this go-around. In bold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
...
So the current flows out of the converter output + into the motor +. Then it flows out of motor - into battery C +. Current will flow from battery C - into battery B -. Because current flows from + to - inside battery C, it charges battery C. ...
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  #4375  
Old 11-30-2018, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citfta View Post
...
I believe Dave has the negative of the boost module in the wrong place on the 3BGS drawing you posted. It should go to ground.
...
Carrol,
The drawing is correct. The negative of the boost module goes to battery C positive, not to ground. The Boost module and motor are running between the positives of the 3BGS.

Alex
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  #4376  
Old 11-30-2018, 02:34 AM
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Thanks for trying

Quote:
Originally Posted by citfta View Post
Bistander,


I am going to one last time try to get you to see where you are wrong. Dave has said at least twice today that the pulses from the NEGATIVE side of the motor are the ones that help charge the battery that is on the charge side. Your drawings with the blue marks are NOT correct. As the motor rotates so that the brushes make contact with the armature windings the cap in the boost module will discharge THROUGH the motor to the charging battery and then back to the ground connection. I believe Dave has the negative of the boost module in the wrong place on the 3BGS drawing you posted. It should go to ground.

On the 1GBS the almost same thing happens except the NEGATIVE side of the motor goes back to the same battery that is supplying power for the boost module. Since those pulses are going to the POSITIVE of that battery it helps to keep that battery charged. So your blue arrows are AGAIN on the wrong side of the motor.

If you still refuse to accept this explanation then I am sorry. But I don't have any more time to waste explaining the same thing over and over again.

Carroll
citfta,

It is difficult talking with a guy who doesn't understand circuits and terminology. He calls the electric terminals on the motor input and output. By definition, the output of an electric motor is the mechanical power at the shaft. The input is the electric terminals. On the DC motor, current flows in the + terminal and out of the - terminal. It is the same current which flows in as flows out. Therefore a pulse on the + is also a pulse on the -.

By convention, motor current flows from + to - inside the motor. The current pulse which gotoluc tested on the moddified motor and was confirmed by Matt in the discussion following the test was a negative current pulse meaning for a short time current flowed from the motor + back to the source. This negative current would necessarily also flow into the motor - terminal. So this negative current pulse would be a charge pulse on the motor power source and a load pulse on battery C.

What Turion talks about is the normal motor current which does charge battery C in the 3bgs, as I've said from the start. I never argued this. He seems to think I have.

Now it appears he believes that the Matt modded motor pluses battery C with charge pulses. Maybe, maybe not. Somebody with a functional 3bgs with boost converter and Matt modded motor could easily find out with a scope. I'm curious about it. I'm not saying he's wrong. But having the boost converter there might actually prevent that from happening, not by means of the diode, but due to the converter's regulation attempting to maintain the set output voltage. The converter output is across the motor terminals in the 3bgs, so wouldn't it keep the voltage on the motor constant at the set point?

This is why I put the question to you instead of Turion. I didn't want this drama. I was just looking for a valid reason of using the Matt modded motor when there is a boost converter there. I guess it boils down to because Turion thinks it is doing something but has no evidence or data to substantiate it.

Regards,

bi
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  #4377  
Old 11-30-2018, 02:45 AM
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bi,

In the other thread you said you didn't want to discuss any of the battery systems.. yet here you are..

I'm not sure what you mean by "Pulse current" If its the inductive discharge from the magnetic field collapse, the direction should be the same to the current that created the magnetic field. not how you drawn it.
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  #4378  
Old 11-30-2018, 02:57 AM
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Motor

Because Mattís motor has times during its rotation when no completed electrical connection exists, you can think of it as a mechanical switch that is on more than it is off. Because of that, battery 3 is pulsed and charged. This is not rocket science. No boost module can cause a circuit to be completed that is MECHANICALLY open. Get it? How many times do I have to explain this. You nit picking terms my stroke your ego, but what you donít understand about this stuff would fill volumes.
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  #4379  
Old 11-30-2018, 03:19 AM
bistander bistander is online now
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Balance and negative pulse

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Originally Posted by ricards View Post
bi,

In the other thread you said you didn't want to discuss any of the battery systems.. yet here you are..

I'm not sure what you mean by "Pulse current" If its the inductive discharge from the magnetic field collapse, the direction should be the same to the current that created the magnetic field. not how you drawn it.
Hi ricards,

Yes, here I am. I built Turion's 1bgs and never got any decent answers. So when I saw some talk of balance, I was curious enough to ask. Then just wanted citfta's opinion on something.

Pulse current in this case is due the modification which Matt does in the motor. This mod shifts commutation to a point where the armature coils actually cross over to opposite polarity field magnets. For a short time (pulse duration) the motor operates as a generator with reverse current. Supposedly this reverse current pulse travels back to the source battery giving it a charge pulse, which I don't argue about. Gotoluc and I think tinman did video experiments with scopes to demonstrate this. I'll paste it below. My whole question here was about this negative pulse being blocked by the boost converter. Motivation stems from being skewered for not using a Matt modded motor in my 1bgs when I don't think it would have made any difference anyway.

Regards,

bi

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
This is the pulse which Matt claims is responsible for increased energy.



Screenshot from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYcg...be&app=desktop

bi
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  #4380  
Old 11-30-2018, 03:34 AM
bistander bistander is online now
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Good point

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Because Mattís motor has times during its rotation when no completed electrical connection exists, you can think of it as a mechanical switch that is on more than it is off. Because of that, battery 3 is pulsed and charged. This is not rocket science. No boost module can cause a circuit to be completed that is MECHANICALLY open. ...
Good point. Don't forget arcing can complete the circuit when breaking inductive circuits. Ever put a scope on it?
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