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  #4321  
Old 11-17-2018, 09:47 PM
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In a word...

Nah. Not gonna show you anything.

I take that back.

I will show anyone ANYTHING they want to know about how to build the generator the best way I know how based on having built like 13 different versions so far.
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Last edited by Turion; 11-18-2018 at 04:15 PM.
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  #4322  
Old 11-17-2018, 10:19 PM
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I don't know what you're talking about.
bi
Get off the thread man ; go harras in your own threat ; some people are building and sharing ; don't wanna keep reading through your garbage / constant disappointment and challenging of Turion.
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  #4323  
Old 11-18-2018, 10:56 AM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Oh!

In a word...
Nah. Not gonna show you anything.
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  #4324  
Old 11-18-2018, 11:04 AM
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Silly Season.

Problem thought : how to keep a potential difference and thus running the load when all batteries are topping up at 14.4 volts?
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Old 11-18-2018, 11:30 AM
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Jeepers now yous have got me wondering if there is enough energy stored in a generator coil, while on it's approach to tdc, that if released in a timely fashion, could neutralize the magnetic attraction that caused it. If so that looks like an imbalance of force that could play out favorably.
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  #4326  
Old 11-18-2018, 12:00 PM
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Problem thought : how to keep a potential difference and thus running the load when all batteries are topping up at 14.4 volts?
This is a very real issue ; when also impulse charging the batteries on the negative side ; seems that it all needs to be balancaed with the LOAD used.
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  #4327  
Old 11-18-2018, 03:46 PM
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Balance

You can always put a load on battery 3 to draw it down and maintain the potential difference.

If all 3 batteries are staying up, you should still have a potential difference. Not sure I understand the problem.
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  #4328  
Old 11-20-2018, 11:04 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Pinched.

I borrowed this from another thread.

The boundary must be clearly defined, so one can clearly say whether a given part of the world is in the system or in the surroundings. If matter is not able to pass across the boundary, then the system is said to be closed; otherwise, it is open. A closed system may still exchange energy with the surroundings unless the system is an isolated one, in which case neither matter nor energy can pass across the boundary.

https://courses.lumenlearning.com/in...hermodynamics/
====

John.
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  #4329  
Old 11-20-2018, 11:12 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Didnít work.

The link didnít work,anyone interested it does on this thread.post 21.

* * The Universe from Nothing: T=0K. / by*Israel Socratus /

Thanks to Socratus.

John.
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  #4330  
Old 11-21-2018, 03:02 AM
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Link

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Originally Posted by Iamnuts View Post
The link didnít work,anyone interested it does on this thread.post 21.

* * The Universe from Nothing: T=0K. / by*Israel Socratus /

Thanks to Socratus.

John.
Here ya go. Try this.

https://courses.lumenlearning.com/in...hermodynamics/
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  #4331  
Old 11-22-2018, 07:59 AM
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Hi Dave,

I sent you a pm.

cheers,
Mario
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  #4332  
Old 11-22-2018, 06:26 PM
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The new kilogram.

Look at this!!!!

There is a quantity that relates weight to electrical current, called Planck's constant - named after the German physicist Max Planck and denoted by the symbol h.

But h is an incredibly small number and to measure it, the research scientist Dr Bryan Kibble built a super-accurate set of scales. The Kibble balance, as it has become known, has an electromagnet that pulls down on one side of the scales and a weight - say, a kilogram - on the other.

The electrical current going through the electromagnet is increased until the two sides are perfectly balanced.

By measuring the current running through the electromagnet to incredible precision, the researchers are able to calculate h to an accuracy of 0.000001%.

This breakthrough has paved the way for Le Grand K to be deposed by "die kleine h".

I can't possibly see any scope for any design of generator to cheat nature
when the whole world (bar a certain few) agrees on something like this.

John.
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  #4333  
Old 11-22-2018, 07:30 PM
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John,
That was over 40 years ago as I recall. Nothing new. And just because you can measure electricity accurately doesnít mean you understand how it works. You donít. Anybody who dismisses the importance of what we have shown with the 3 battery setup has completely missed the boat. But it is under sale and gaining speed every single day. You guys are going to be left so far behind itís not even funny. Donít say I didnít warn you.
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Old 11-22-2018, 09:37 PM
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Incredible accuracy.

The Kibble balance avoids the problems of measuring B and L with a second calibration step. The same wire (in practice, a coil of wire) is moved through the same magnetic field at a known speed v. By Faraday's law of induction, a potential difference U is generated across the ends of the wire, which equals BLv. Thus

U=BLv.
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  #4335  
Old 11-23-2018, 09:47 AM
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Dave, I thought you'd be happy if someone else was building the generator?

cheers,
Mario
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  #4336  
Old 11-23-2018, 02:22 PM
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Building

I am happy you are building it. Anything I can do to help, let me know. Best of luck to you.
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  #4337  
Old 11-27-2018, 05:29 PM
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Single battery circuit

To all,
Will setup the 3BGS today while looking at the SBC single battery circuit Dave posted.

Will try something Dave said per email. Want to try something with 3BGS first before trying the SBC on my work bench.

Only have one boost module left over from this summer's testing. Smoked my other one during that time.

Not wanting to keep this thread alive or create any new interest here. Just thought to drop some lines and say I'm still having coffee mornings and thinking about this system.

wantomake
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  #4338  
Old 11-27-2018, 10:22 PM
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Wrong battery again

Update.
Did try the 3BGS setup as per Dave's email today. Tried my old lithium battery packs I built, but the packs sit too long and lost too much amperage. Therefore will move three marine batteries over to try.

Nothing new to post but still trying to get back to testing and such.

wantomake
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  #4339  
Old 11-28-2018, 01:24 AM
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hi all. just wanted to add something. just an opinion, but i think it's important to remember that a load and a charge battery in series is always a voltage splitting combination. motors with load/no load are pushing back on the current flow,proper bemf, with varying force and batteries have varying levels of resistance depending on degree of sulfation,state of charge etc. i've often wondered if this is why 3bgs and derivative systems are hard to keep in balance, because the voltage across the motor or battery will fluctuate due to each other.
hopefully i'm not being captain obvious and a goose, but it seems like a critical aspect to me.
cheers.
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  #4340  
Old 11-28-2018, 10:55 AM
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hi all. just wanted to add something. just an opinion, but i think it's important to remember that a load and a charge battery in series is always a voltage splitting combination. motors with load/no load are pushing back on the current flow,proper bemf, with varying force and batteries have varying levels of resistance depending on degree of sulfation,state of charge etc. i've often wondered if this is why 3bgs and derivative systems are hard to keep in balance, because the voltage across the motor or battery will fluctuate due to each other.
hopefully i'm not being captain obvious and a goose, but it seems like a critical aspect to me.
cheers.
Voltan,

You are very correct. Dave has said the same thing many times and my own experience backs that up. You can't just throw something together and expect to get the same results Dave and several of the rest of us have gotten. You have to take the time to study and learn the system and that will lead you to learning how to keep everything in balance. If you don't do that you will get poor results. And it doesn't hurt to be reminded of that from time to time. Thanks for your thoughts.

Carroll
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  #4341  
Old 11-28-2018, 02:08 PM
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Balance

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Voltan,

You are very correct. Dave has said the same thing many times and my own experience backs that up. You can't just throw something together and expect to get the same results Dave and several of the rest of us have gotten. You have to take the time to study and learn the system and that will lead you to learning how to keep everything in balance. If you don't do that you will get poor results. And it doesn't hurt to be reminded of that from time to time. Thanks for your thoughts.

Carroll
Hello citfta,

First. Just a simple question. No drama from others, if you know what I mean.

To me, balance means or implies adjusting or tuning. When I built the single battery, 2 boost converter circuit and tested it, it did require tuning. With it, I had the 2 boost modules, each with adjustment and the load resistance value which I could choose. Balance also infers a process of getting some parameters within a certain relationship. With the system which I built this was simply stability; that is to stop the hunting. It was a feedback system and exhibited classic feedback symptoms.

As I understand the basic 3bgs system, there is no tunable converters and the only way I can see to balance the system is to adjust the load. Is that correct? And then, because the load is not fedback to the input, stability should not be a big issue. So what parameters do you monitor to balance the system and how would that be done in practice where you have less control on the load?

Thanks,

bi
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  #4342  
Old 11-28-2018, 02:29 PM
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Load

bi,
No drama. You asked a reasonable question and I will give you a reasonable answer. This has all been posted before, but it never hurts to remind people.

First, you have to remember that loads cannot be more than the C-20 rating oh the batteries. So you begin with the motor as the load on the primaries, as it is running between the positives. Put a small load on battery 3. You will notice that the motor speeds up because more amps are being pulled THROUGH the motor. . Wait five minutes. If nothing happens, put another small load on battery 3 and wait five minutes. If nothing happens continue to do this until the desired effect takes place.

The desired effect you are looking for is this...the motor immediately speeds up when you put the load on battery three, but if you have the system in BALANCE, within five minutes it will suddenly, for no apparent reason, speed up again. Ten years ago when I talked about this I said when this happens you are in the zone and you will get longer run times. But resonance is what is happening.

Remember,without the Matt motor you have NO real charging of battery 3 because it is not being pulsed the way it should be, so you wonít get extended run times anyway.
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  #4343  
Old 11-28-2018, 02:37 PM
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Hello bi,

What I found was as you have stated the most important part of the system is the load on the motor. As Dave has said many times most of the replicators that failed tried to do too much for the size of the batteries they were using. As you well know batteries will only take a charge at a certain rate determined by the condition of the battery and the capacity of the battery. Trying to force too much charge into the battery that is being charged will only result in more losses.

And as we also proved to ourselves many times, pulse charging the battery is a more efficient way to get charge back into the battery. In fact I just recently bought a commercial charger that uses pulse charging to condition and recharge the battery. The modified Matt motor gives us the pulse charging going to battery 3.

By keeping your load low and pulse charging battery 3 you WILL get longer run times than if you only ran that same load on the 3 batteries connected in parallel. As battery 3 gets charged then you swap it with the lower charged battery of the other two. And you keep doing that, recycling the energy from the batteries by charging one while discharging two. Of course the system will eventually run down so you need some means of recharging the batteries when that time comes.

This is NOT an overunity system. It is just a much more efficient way to use the power in batteries. Dave and I have a friend that used to live in Tennessee. He was living totally off the grid. He was using solar power to keep his storage batteries charged. I visited him and saw his system and very small home. When he started using the 3BGS he was able to run his loads much longer by recycling some of the energy into recharging the battery in the 3rd position. He gave very high praises to Dave and the 3BGS because it allowed him to do more with the system he had. Most of the time his loads were not pulse charging battery 3 but he still got more run time from his batteries.

So the "secret" to the 3BGS is to keep your load small in comparison to the battery size. If possible pulse charge battery 3. And finally you have to learn when is the best time to swap the batteries. And all of this takes time to learn. Some extra batteries also help because then you can allow them to rest between charging and discharging. This also helps to make the system more efficient.

Respectfully,
Carroll

PS:I see Dave was posting the same time I was.
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  #4344  
Old 11-28-2018, 03:53 PM
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Balance

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Originally Posted by citfta View Post
... When he started using the 3BGS he was able to run his loads much longer by recycling some of the energy into recharging the battery in the 3rd position. He gave very high praises to Dave and the 3BGS because it allowed him to do more with the system he had. Most of the time his loads were not pulse charging battery 3 but he still got more run time from his batteries.
...
Thanks citfta and Turion,

citfta,

Did this guy ever measure or quantify his results? These successes always appear subjective to me. The restrictions like less than the 20 hour rate and battery swaps and rest periods mean a controlled test would require weeks with close attention. Otherwise, the fact that the 3bgs has significantly more batteries will yield longer run times not to mention the continual attention being a benefit to the 3bgs.

Back to the balance question, or answer, it looks like sizing the 3bgs system for the load is the only way. That doesn't seem practical for a home power system where the load is constantly changing. The primary purpose of batteries on home solar installations is to buffer or contend with varying loads, like night to day, or refrigerator or pumps cycling. So wouldn't the balanced 3gbs installation into an existing battery assisted home solar PV system double or triple the total battery count for the home owner?

citfta, are you using a 3bgs for anything useful? Is anybody here doing so?

You can take or leave it, but I've been involved with energy conversion and energy storage for 40 years. I've tested thousands of batteries and hundreds of motors and generators. I really like the modern Lithium based batteries and really hate the lead acid. I have no desire to increase the amount of lead acid on my property. In all of the testing on lead acid which I've done or studied, I've never seen more than a temporary improvement from pulse charging and never any indication of "running between positives" as beneficial. Just stating reasons that I'm not interested in building the 3bgs, as you always tell me to do. The only quantitative controlled test which I've seen does not support your 3bgs claims. Of course Turion objects to that test. All this time, has no one else instrumented and recorded data from a controlled 3bgs test?

Oh well, back to other stuff. Carry on.

bi
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  #4345  
Old 11-28-2018, 06:15 PM
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Tests

bi,
I have run literally HUNDREDS of tests over the last ten years, and have records of all of them in my notebooks. I havenít taken the time to do a video of that testing, because as YOU said, it would take DAYS to record the entire test, and then people are going to dispute my results anyway.

The test which showed no positive results that you are referring to was a joke. We told him several times that what he was doing was NOT going to elicit positive results. For the three battery system to show ANY extended run times with an off the shelf motor (which is what I was initially using) the system MUST be tuned. I said that at the VERY BEGINNING of the thread. Did he tune the system? No, he did not. Did he use large batteries? No, he did not. When I first started I was using smaller batteries and a stock motor. My results were hit and miss. And I was pretty experienced at tuning the system. It all came down to the specific batteries used.

With the addition of the Matt motor, the frequency of having successful runs went way up. But STILL there were times when I just couldnít get it. With the addition of the boost module the success rate became like 98%. There are STILL times it wonít work and I have to switch out one or more of the batteries to be successful.

So when some guy slaps together a stock motor with whatever batteries he has lying around, and has no boost module in the circuit, I can pretty much guarantee he is going to fail to see any positive results. And THAT is the ďdefinitiveĒ test of this system you are standing by? Is that REAL research? If you want to test whether something works or not you actually have to REPLICATE the original device.

I offered to send you a motor and wire to rewind it with FOR FREE so you could test the system with the correct components and you declined. To ME that speaks volumes about your desire to know the truth about this setup. You want everything handed to you and have NO desire to do any serious research on your own. So you will get the answers you deserve.
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Old 11-28-2018, 07:33 PM
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Changed mind

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Update.
Did try the 3BGS setup as per Dave's email today. Tried my old lithium battery packs I built, but the packs sit too long and lost too much amperage. Therefore will move three marine batteries over to try.

Nothing new to post but still trying to get back to testing and such.

wantomake
I changed my mind. No more moving marine batteries around.

I did build and test Dave and Matt's 3BGS with boosters and got the system balanced to retain same voltage during test runs. Saw it with my eyes and I know it works.

I did build somewhat of a version of Dave's upright generator and it did SUUL. That means it does indeed exist.

I only failed to join the two together in one unit. I know it would've been a wondrous thing to feel, see, and experience.

But my disease "if I take it all apart and build it bigger/better" took over. So all is dismantled and just collecting dust. What a shame.

No I'm not starting all over again. I followed directly the plan, took advice while driving Dave/Matt crazy, spent resources and put in the time.

Now I wonder what could have been with lots of time, knowledge, decent shop that doesn't leak rain water, monies, oh and just a little more love of the adventure of seeing Free Energy made real.

wantomake
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  #4347  
Old 11-28-2018, 07:43 PM
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Data

Wantomake,
The fact that you have built it and seen it work is not going to be enough for bi. He wants hard data, which you have not provided. Therefore, you do not know for sure whether it works or not. Because you haven't PROVED it to him.

But that's ok. Just keep on doing what you are doing and that will be your reward.
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  #4348  
Old 11-28-2018, 07:43 PM
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Thanks citfta and Turion,

citfta,

Did this guy ever measure or quantify his results? These successes always appear subjective to me. The restrictions like less than the 20 hour rate and battery swaps and rest periods mean a controlled test would require weeks with close attention. Otherwise, the fact that the 3bgs has significantly more batteries will yield longer run times not to mention the continual attention being a benefit to the 3bgs.

Back to the balance question, or answer, it looks like sizing the 3bgs system for the load is the only way. That doesn't seem practical for a home power system where the load is constantly changing. The primary purpose of batteries on home solar installations is to buffer or contend with varying loads, like night to day, or refrigerator or pumps cycling. So wouldn't the balanced 3gbs installation into an existing battery assisted home solar PV system double or triple the total battery count for the home owner?

citfta, are you using a 3bgs for anything useful? Is anybody here doing so?

You can take or leave it, but I've been involved with energy conversion and energy storage for 40 years. I've tested thousands of batteries and hundreds of motors and generators. I really like the modern Lithium based batteries and really hate the lead acid. I have no desire to increase the amount of lead acid on my property. In all of the testing on lead acid which I've done or studied, I've never seen more than a temporary improvement from pulse charging and never any indication of "running between positives" as beneficial. Just stating reasons that I'm not interested in building the 3bgs, as you always tell me to do. The only quantitative controlled test which I've seen does not support your 3bgs claims. Of course Turion objects to that test. All this time, has no one else instrumented and recorded data from a controlled 3bgs test?

Oh well, back to other stuff. Carry on.

bi
Hello again,

I have highlighted again some areas you asked about. The guy in Tennessee conducted many many tests on his system. He is a single guy who only worked as a truck driver when he wanted to. The rest of the time he spent doing research on alternative energy. Primarily the 3BGS and various kinds of generators to use with the 3BGS system. I don't have any of the results of his tests but I think some of them are buried in this thread somewhere. You would have to look back in probably the first half of this thread to find those results. But he was very convinced that he got longer run times using the 3BGS.

You are correct that this is not a practical system for most people to use to power their home. It just takes too much attention and time to keep everything in balance and working correctly. But there are very many things that are not practical. That doesn't mean they don't work! It is certainly possible to run your home by using steam power to turn a generator. And that of course will work. But for most people that is just not practical or worth the trouble. But as far as the loads constantly changing that can be dealt with. That is just a simple engineering problem that can be met several ways. But again all that is not practical.

For those reasons listed above, no I am not using the 3BGS for anything useful. But I have proven to myself that it does work. Saying something is not practical is not the same as saying it doesn't work. If nothing else the 3BGS is a great learning experiment. And if you were living off the grid it could very well mean the difference between success and failure at providing your own source of power.

I am surprised you did not see any benefit from pulse charging batteries. This method of charging lead acid batteries has been around a while. But the frequency of the pulses and the voltage and current of them all play a part in the success or failure of the charging process. The commercial charger I have uses a microprocessor to monitor the battery and adjust the pulses accordingly.

I have been very busy with family matters for several months now. I am hoping to get some time to work with the boost circuit here in the hopefully near future. IF I get time to work on that I will provide all the data I can about what I find. I know Matt and Dave personally. I know what they have told me that I have had time to verify has been true.

It is fine that you don't want to spend time on the 3BGS. But it is certainly NOT fine that you want to keep claiming it doesn't work when you haven't tried it.

I understand what you are saying about the newer Lithium base batteries. But they have their problems also. I use them regularly in my RC airplanes. The power to weight ratio is amazing. But, I have never had a lead acid battery catch fire while in operation. And I have personally had that happen with one of my Lithium batteries. The plane took off just fine and at about 100 feet in the air there was a sudden explosion and the plane came tumbling down. The battery was blown out to the plane and landed on the ground. And as you are probably aware the fire of a burning Lithium battery is very hard to put out as they burn so hot. Of course it eventually burned up. I only charge mine in a special fireproof bag made just for that purpose. Any source of stored energy has the potential to be dangerous.

Respectfully,
Carroll
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Old 11-28-2018, 08:37 PM
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Ignore list

The reason I don't care what anyone post here is simple. I deal with unbelief all the time. The "ignore list" is great to use. I get no benefit from reading anything from the ones that don't build or want to see a system work. As a seasoned and tried missionary, I see a great deal of unbelief because when people don't see it then it's not real. I've seen spiritual powers-that-be and know how they kill, steal, and destroy but I know the Name of Jesus does defeat them. So the powers-that-be in this FE world are easy to see and ignore.
Their words and methods never ever change.

Data and numbers are good if that helps someone. Then tptb will say you measured wrong or that's the incorrect raw data. Where does it stop? It never will.

Tptb from FE or spiritual, can't tell me what I've seen isn't real. Because I've seen both!!!

What a shame for them.
wantomake
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Old 11-28-2018, 10:58 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Don't think I said that

Quote:
Originally Posted by citfta View Post
I am surprised you did not see any benefit from pulse charging batteries. ... <snip>
...
It is fine that you don't want to spend time on the 3BGS. But it is certainly NOT fine that you want to keep claiming it doesn't work when you haven't tried it.
...
Hi citfta,

I said I saw some temporary improvement from pulsing. That was confined to batteries which likely suffered from sulfation. There may be some benefit to healthy batteries in longevity but in the lab we could find no performance improvement. Our test we're not comprehensive and happened about 20 years ago. I have not seen published scientific literature confirmation. And for years I received battery industry journals and periodicals. But not here to argue that. BTW, do you find it odd that Turion insists on the Matt modded motor and a boost converter when the converter contains a diode which blocks any "charge" pulse going to the battery from the motor?

And I don't think you find me saying that the 3bgs does not work. Maybe I slipped once and said that but I don't think so. What I have said is there is no valid proof that it is better than using batteries in the conventional manner. And that I have no interest in building a 3bgs. You'll notice the system I did build and test used a single battery. I thought it provided a clean demonstration.

Actually, I rarely claim something doesn't work. What I do is ask for data and proof of the claims made about the thing.

Been nice,

bi
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