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Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

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  #4261  
Old 10-22-2018, 03:00 PM
wrtner wrtner is offline
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Bi,
It is clear to everyone you arenít man enough to come out into the open and attack me man to man.
You shouldn't get so wound up, Turion. We all know your reputation. There is an old saying - Confucius may well have said it: - "Don't feed the trolls".
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  #4262  
Old 10-22-2018, 08:23 PM
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Fun times

Werner,
Donít worry about me. Iím fine. Not wound up at all. Just seeing how far olí bi was willing to go with his claims that I am a liar, and fraud, that I have led people on purposely for some supposed gain of some kind and that this is a scam.

He thinks heís anonymous, so maybe he doesnít realize that when I file a lawsuit for libel and defamation of character I can have the info he has provided to the forum subpoenaed. If no one knew my real identity, I would have no grounds, which is why Iíve taken the trouble to make it very clear that MY identity is known. . Iím pretty sure I know some folks with the tech skills to track him down. Even a frivolous lawsuit will cost him a pile of money to defend against. He canít afford that. He canít even afford the right sized batteries to experiment with according to him.

Of course I might have to wait until my other house sells before I can do that, and I might need advice from someone in the legal profession. Oh wait, Iím married to someone like that.

Anyway, thanks for your concern I know what Iím doing.
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  #4263  
Old 10-22-2018, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by bistander View Post
It's just an example. But here you have have a big name FE researcher making a presentation at a major FE conference and can't even get it to work. How pathetic is that? Oh, and then sell video books on how to do it. Like "send me money and I'll tell you how to fail". Sound familiar?
You're out of line with your mouth and your attitude.

Peter and RS (who had a battery bank over 1000 pounds) both showed their own variations of the 3 battery concept at the conference for all to see and more work was done than the net loss from the battery bank.

The Benitez presentation was to show the principle of the circuit with a super low budget and low tech method to operate that switching concept. Peter was using the cheap Walmart starter batteries, which are about as crappy as you can get and they still nearly kept themselves charged up.

Pointing out that Peter couldn't get it to self run and admitted those batteries won't cut it doesn't show a fault in the circuit or its concept, but in your own ignorance of knowing how to distinguish what is or isn't being said. All that shows is those particular batteries happen to be garbage, but it still showed the point.

What David and Matt has been showing here for a long time works whether it is their exact variation or not and again, RS and Peter showed this at the conference for all to see.

Where is all your documented work to show that you have applied exactly what they have taught? If you don't have that, you have no room to talk and need to get out of this thread permanently instead of disrupting it with your ignorance.

You're welcome to start your own thread and post why you think all this is nonsense. Harassing them here is not going to happen any more. It isn't what you are saying, but how you are saying it and it has to end.
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  #4264  
Old 10-23-2018, 01:22 AM
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i've seen it

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I apologise. Objectionable comments have been deleted from my post. I'll delete this post after you've had an opportunity to see it.

bi

I've seen it - thank you for understanding.
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  #4265  
Old 10-23-2018, 02:21 AM
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We showed what can be done with the 3 battery circuit and the reason for a PULSE motor. We also showed how a boost module can benefit you. We showed a single battery circuit. Your success depends following the basic rules, like BIG wires and BIG batteries and efficient boost modules and pulse motors. After that its up to you. Our hope was that people would see success and branch off into discovering things on their own and sharing their results. I get emails almost every day from people who are doing JUST THAT, and are NOT participating on this forum because of all the crap they would have to put up with here. I would never disclose someone's name without their permission, but here are two recent (within the last few DAYS) emails I have gotten.

__________________________________________

Speaking of charging, in the first setup where I ran the motor just using the left side of the one battery system, I put a pair of parallel 12v 9AH SLA batteries (bat 2) in place of the motor.
Before the test, the resting voltage of the primary battery (bat 1) was 12.52V and the second (bat 2) was 11.5V.

Connections:
Boost in pos to bat 1 pos.
Boost in neg to bat 1 neg
Boost out pos to bat 2 pos
Bat 2 neg to bat 1 pos

After running an hour or so and letting the bats rest for a while I measured the bats again.

Bat 1 resting 12.55V (.03V higher than before the test)
Bat 2 resting 13.47V (1.97V higher than before the test)

So from a resting voltage perspective, I charged bat 2 for free and even gained .03V on bat 1 in the process.
I am going to have to pick up a battery capacity analyzer to see what is happening with the batteries.

What would COP be of that? Infinity?



__________________________________________________ _____




Both boost converters are connected across pos and neg of their sources. The first one could be hooked up between the positives of the three battery system.

I am running just the left part of the diagram. The boost converter is hooked up to the battery, set to 26v with the out of the boost going to motor pos and motor neg going back to pos of battery. The battery was sitting at 12.5v before I started. When I turned on the boost and the motor started running, the battery dropped to 12.2v. After running for a while the battery climbed up to 12.29v and is just sitting there. There is 1.08A flowing from the bat pos to the boost in pos and 1.07A flowing from boost in neg to bat neg. The voltage across the motor is 13.71V and it is drawing 0.7A. What is blowing me away is the battery is just sitting at 12.29V and I just saw the meter bouncing back and forth between 12.29V and 12.3V. I am going to let it run like this for quite a while to see what it does. Oh, now the meter is reading steady 12.3V. The load on the battery by the boost converter is almost exactly the C20 rate of the battery. Wow, all I can say is wow.

__________________________________________________ __-

somebody should tell all these people who are sending me emails that this doesn't work. Of course THEY have a setup on the bench, built correctly, and can make their own decisions about what works and what doesn't.
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  #4266  
Old 10-26-2018, 08:05 AM
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Still looking in and hope all is well

Matthew, Dave and All,
Hello from Japan near Nara and Osaka.

Still checking in from time to time and see how the research goes. Sorry had to stop everything and focus thoughts and life toward our mission for Japan. As we travel here the rooftops of many homes are covered by solar. The government here installs solar free and sends you a decent check monthly for grid connections solar energy production. Imagine they had a super large 3BGS in each community or homes. Wife's sister operates large Day Care center spread over 1 acres plus 3 story residence. All completely solar powered and gets $400 check monthly from government.


Keep up the good fight my friends and will see you all back home around the first of November.

Take care,
wantomake
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  #4267  
Old 10-26-2018, 12:57 PM
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Matthew, Dave and All,
Hello from Japan near Nara and Osaka.

Still checking in from time to time and see how the research goes. Sorry had to stop everything and focus thoughts and life toward our mission for Japan. As we travel here the rooftops of many homes are covered by solar. The government here installs solar free and sends you a decent check monthly for grid connections solar energy production. Imagine they had a super large 3BGS in each community or homes. Wife's sister operates large Day Care center spread over 1 acres plus 3 story residence. All completely solar powered and gets $400 check monthly from government.


Keep up the good fight my friends and will see you all back home around the first of November.

Take care,
wantomake
We don't need Solar in the US, we can just open more coal mines and dig for oil on our conservation lands! We can drive our huge SUVs and crew cab trucks that get 9 miles to the gallon. That's what being "great" means.
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  #4268  
Old 10-26-2018, 11:01 PM
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Turion,



bi
Finally, goodbye!
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  #4269  
Old 11-02-2018, 07:20 PM
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Hi To ALL

My name is Geoffrey Miller I have a lab called Energybat Labs, see link below
I have followed you Dave & Matt from the being Great work !!!.

The people the don't understand the tec shown on this website have not built anything.

Energy Bat

I have a new product that you guys might like, it is a BATTERY SWITCHING BOARD.

This circuit board was designed by Energy Batlabs & Magnetic Impulse Tech Group LLC to allow for the switching of battery banks in your DIY energy project. This board provides the logic to be used with relays which will allow you to charge one battery bank while utilizing another during continuous operation.

Please go to my website for all the info. See pic below

Have fun

Geoffrey at EBL
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  #4270  
Old 11-03-2018, 08:38 PM
aljhoa aljhoa is offline
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CZH-LABS Electronics-Salon Low Voltage Disconnect Module LVD, 12V 30A, Protect/Prolong Battery Life

Cole Hersee 24200 Latching Solenoid


Al
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  #4271  
Old 11-06-2018, 06:38 PM
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Hi all. I don’t know if this is old news/common knowledge, but thought I should mention something new to me in case it isn’t. It turns out that the acid component is heavier than the water in LA battery electrolyte and precipitates to the bottom over time in stationary and infrequently charged battery systems. In a vehicle that sees regular use it gets sloshed around and stays relatively evenly mixed. Also the bubbles generated by charging help to mix the electrolyte and keeping these batteries charged helps as well.
Regarding Tesla switch and 3 bgs systems i was thinking it would be beneficial to sit a battery on something like a rolling pin or caulking gun tube lengthways and rock the battery back and forth with a bit of vigour periodically and before experimenting.
If it’s mostly water in the top half of the solution there’s reduced electrochemical activity,(power), and increased upper plate corrosion with the top half of the plates and increased risk of sulfation in the bottom half.
Apologies if you guys are fully aware of this already. And car manufacturers refer to it as acid stratification for reference.
Cheers.
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Last edited by voltan; 11-07-2018 at 04:07 AM. Reason: Dislexia.
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  #4272  
Old 11-07-2018, 06:03 PM
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Reminder

Voltan,
Thanks for the reminder. I knew the term, and had that info in my head, but REMEMBERING it and applying it are two different things.

I thought I might be back here in a month or so, but the world keeps throwing hardballs at me. By the time I can get back to show anyone anything, Matt will probably be done with his project and all of the controversy here will be moot. Such is life.
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Last edited by Turion; 11-07-2018 at 08:04 PM.
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  #4273  
Old 11-09-2018, 01:16 PM
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Looks interesting

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Originally Posted by energybat View Post
Hi To ALL

My name is Geoffrey Miller I have a lab called Energybat Labs, see link below
I have followed you Dave & Matt from the being Great work !!!.

The people the don't understand the tec shown on this website have not built anything.

Energy Bat

I have a new product that you guys might like, it is a BATTERY SWITCHING BOARD.

This circuit board was designed by Energy Batlabs & Magnetic Impulse Tech Group LLC to allow for the switching of battery banks in your DIY energy project. This board provides the logic to be used with relays which will allow you to charge one battery bank while utilizing another during continuous operation.

Please go to my website for all the info. See pic below

Have fun

Geoffrey at EBL
Geoffrey,
Looks very interesting and should be more interested in this it would seem.

Just drinking some hot coffee while reading your website. Many thoughts and questions indeed. Thanks for posting here.

I want to get restarted here but stopped to evaluate which way to proceed. I stopped building this pass summer on the upright generator. Want to learn more about battery switching technology and the benefits.

Anyhow time to refresh the coffee and get breakfast on the stove,
wantomake
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  #4274  
Old 11-09-2018, 02:49 PM
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Geoffrey,
Looks very interesting and should be more interested in this it would seem.

Just drinking some hot coffee while reading your website. Many thoughts and questions indeed. Thanks for posting here.

I want to get restarted here but stopped to evaluate which way to proceed. I stopped building this pass summer on the upright generator. Want to learn more about battery switching technology and the benefits.

Anyhow time to refresh the coffee and get breakfast on the stove,
wantomake
I've received the switching board and have a design for setting up the relay's in the 3 bgs configuration.

The unboxing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oyQt3uMv9k
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  #4275  
Old 11-11-2018, 01:29 PM
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Looks interesting

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Originally Posted by Majestic81 View Post
I've received the switching board and have a design for setting up the relay's in the 3 bgs configuration.

The unboxing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oyQt3uMv9k
Congratulations,
It's a good thing to get new tech in the mail. Can't wait to see your build and the switching by the relay board.

So you will be using the 3BGS configuration? Hope all testing goes well, keep us informed if possible.

wantomake
Coffee needs nuked.
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  #4276  
Old 11-13-2018, 06:22 AM
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Single battery circuit

Has ANYONE built the single battery circuit we posted and compared run times to just running the motor straight off the battery?
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Old 11-13-2018, 08:51 AM
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Hi Dave. I’d be keen to have a go at that. It’s multiple battery banks that make Tesla switch/3bgs systems impractical for electric cars, bikes, planes etc.
Can you post the page number or date or if it was fairly recent I’m happy to look for it. I was thinking about using caps with a brushless ac motor like in the pic recently. Switches 1 and 2 close, the motor coil is energised for one stroke, then 1and 2 open. 3 and 4 close, energising the motor coil for one stroke with the current reversed. 3 stays closed, 4 opens and 1 closes with a brief overlap to recharge the source battery. 3 opens, 1 stays closed, 2 closes and repeat. The diodes are the built in to most semiconductors ones or maybe add speedy diodes like fr302’s across the switches. They direct the switch off spikes to one cap at at a time provided the right switch opens first. maybe a booster could play a part as well. I haven’t checked it all over yet For flaws or conflicts. It’s a concept in its infancy. Okay, for a start it looks like the diodes on 1 and 3 would have to be blocked with additional diodes or some other way. And without a booster this still needs 24v to drive a12v motor, so no bulk weight saving over a 2bgs. For a mobile application a booster or 2 would be the big weight saver.
Cheers.
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  #4278  
Old 11-13-2018, 01:56 PM
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Single battery system

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If you have the stuff, give this a shot. It's as CHEAP as you will get.
Post #3883, 7/13/2018
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  #4279  
Old 11-13-2018, 01:58 PM
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Single battery system

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Has ANYONE built the single battery circuit we posted and compared run times to just running the motor straight off the battery?
I did. Posted data.

bi
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  #4280  
Old 11-13-2018, 04:11 PM
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Data

So bi,
What is your honest evaluation of the potential of that circuit from the data you collected and do you see a way to move forward to get more out of it or scale it up?

What we see on the bench, good or bad, should influence the direction we take, so I am curious what direction you would go with this, based on what YOU have seen, not what I have seen.

What, if anything was positive about it and what was negative?
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Old 11-13-2018, 04:39 PM
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Cheers Dave. Page 130.
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  #4282  
Old 11-13-2018, 04:51 PM
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Test results

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So bi,
What is your honest evaluation of the potential of that circuit from the data you collected and do you see a way to move forward to get more out of it or scale it up?

What we see on the bench, good or bad, should influence the direction we take, so I am curious what direction you would go with this, based on what YOU have seen, not what I have seen.

What, if anything was positive about it and what was negative?
Turion,

I was attempting to be objective and completely unbiased so I just presented the data. With that it is easy for anyone to calculate system efficiency and draw their own conclusions, or suggest further investigation, which I would have, could still do, although the set-up has been torn down. At the time I did inquire of you what your results were, what the objective of the system was and what to do further. But you know how that discussion went.

I still feel it is in the best interest if I keep my opinions to myself and let the data stand. What do you think of my results (system efficiency)?

bi
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  #4283  
Old 11-14-2018, 01:14 AM
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Thoughts

Your data
Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post

Boost module 1
Input 12.11V, 5.27A, 63.8W
Output 27.67V, 1.99A, 55.06W, 86.3% efficient.

Boost Module 2
Input 12.4V, 1.28A, 15.7W
Output 14.13V, 1.01A, 14.27W, 90.9% efficient.

bi
Just looking at the data that you collected doesn't tell you anything about what is possible, or even exactly what is GOING ON with this system. That's why I asked for your opinion. All you really did was measure what is coming out of the two boost modules. As to the data, I think it's probably pretty close to what I would expect. I am usually getting close to 93% with my boost modules. I have some expensive ones that push that number up several % points, but that isn't important. With the little ones I put a couple in parallel so I get a LITTLE bit better efficiency, but like I said, that's not critical.

The only way to tell if you really HAVE something with this system is to run your modified motor connected to a load directly off the battery until it is run down, and then charge the battery back up and run it on this system. See which one lasts longer.

When I run this setup, I have a second motor shaft connected to the first, rectify the output of the second motor (as a generator) and measure watts out to a load. That's how I calculate which system gives me MORE output from the run time of a single battery.

All this simple circuit was designed to do was prove, with A SINGLE BATTERY that the energy does not HAVE to be consumed by the load. It CAN be reused. Now this little system is just proof of concept.

You will notice that boost module 1 is running in a conventional manner, which WASTES energy, but it is necessary for the purposes of this demonstration. Normally, I would NEVER run anything this way as it is so wasteful. I will also say that if you do not use the modified motor, the setup will NOT work, because the modified motor pulses the battery like a battery charger does. There is a pulsed input going into the second boost module, so there is a pulsed output coming out of it, even though the boost module itself pulses, it is at the wrong frequency, so the correct motor is necessary.

That's all this system was designed to do, give you a longer run time. Other systems are designed to do much more than that, but ya gotta start somewhere.
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  #4284  
Old 11-14-2018, 03:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Your data


Just looking at the data that you collected doesn't tell you anything about what is possible, or even exactly what is GOING ON with this system. That's why I asked for your opinion. All you really did was measure what is coming out of the two boost modules. ...
You just looked at the converter efficiency test I did to show Matt. Go a bit further and see two system tests. Both using battery power as input and load resistor power as output.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Here are data from most recent test.

Wattmeter on battery:
12.05V, 3.4A, 40.97W, 9.09Ah, 111.21Wh

Wattmeter on 50Ω load resistor:
18.31V, 0.33A, 6.1W, 0.885Ah, 15.3Wh



Regards,

bi
I ran that system for 3 hours. That took 333 watt hours from the battery. If I would have run a 6.1 watt load directly from the battery, it would have run for 54.6 hours.

And with a converter between the battery and motor, those pulses are blocked.

What's your opinion of the real data?

bi
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  #4285  
Old 11-14-2018, 02:44 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Single battery circuit results

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Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Has ANYONE built the single battery circuit we posted and compared run times to just running the motor straight off the battery?
With system = 3 hours.

Straight from battery = 54.6 hours.

Just one test on one system. Not to be considered conclusive. Disappointed not to see anybody else running this test.

bi
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Old 11-14-2018, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by bistander View Post
I ran that system for 3 hours. That took 333 watt hours from the battery. If I would have run a 6.1 watt load directly from the battery, it would have run for 54.6 hours.

And with a converter between the battery and motor, those pulses are blocked.

What's your opinion of the real data?

bi
Hi Bi,
Just wondering if you remember the pre-test resting voltage of the battery and the resting voltage of the battery after the test?

Matt mentioned in a post somewhere that the pulses from the motor are being captured by the output capacitors of the boost converter thereby decreasing the load on the battery a certain amount.

My thoughts on your data.
First, thanks for sharing.
There will be a certain amount of overhead to run the motor-generator.
The 50 ohm load was not letting enough current through to help overcome the overhead. The system was not in balance. Example, a load with a resistance of 3.72 ohm would allow 4.88 amps to flow to the battery which would balance with the output to boost 1 (assuming the motor-generator does not draw more current under an increased load). At that point the voltage on the battery will remain constant as the system would be in balance. For a little more clarity, lets move the connection of the second boost converter negative from the battery negative pole to the negative input to boost converter 1. Now place an amp meter between the battery negative and boost converter 1 (and now 2) negative. When the system is in balance, you will be running the load for free (in conventional terms) and the reading on that amp meter between the battery negative and the boost converter negative should read zero.

From my tests that Dave mentioned in post #4265, the meters are not showing the whole picture. There is less load on the battery than what appears to be drawn by the boost converter when running the load between two positive potentials. When I ran my tests the battery resting voltage returned to the pre-test voltage level or higher.

In this one battery circuit, the output of the boost converter goes to the positive of the motor and the negative of the motor goes back to the battery positive. The motor is running between two positive potentials. It is not going back to the battery negative so it will not be contributing to destroying the dipole of the battery. So what is happening with the power that was run through the motor and back to the battery positive? Since it is not connected to ground, it is a separate dc loop is it not?

How do we measure exactly what is going into/coming out of the battery when we are running between positive potentials? I'm not sure which is why I am asking. I suspect when running the load between two positive potentials in this setup, the energy used by the boost converter is to simply create a higher potential than the battery.
Thoughts anyone?


Cheers,
Alex
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  #4287  
Old 11-14-2018, 05:03 PM
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Analysis

Hi hherby,

Thanks for chiming in. No, I don't have those battery resting (no-load or open circuit, I assume you mean) voltage readings.

Member dragon had a good take on it here:

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Originally Posted by dragon View Post
To me it looks like the battery is supplying 12.2 volts at 4.47 amps to the boost, 54.53 watts. The motor sees 20.6 volts at 2.18 amps or 44.9 watts. Around 83% efficiency. The 6.78 amp reading is deceptive because that is the combined current in that loop ( 4.47 + 2.18 = 6.65 amps ).

The output of the generator is 11.7 watts and the output of the 2nd boost is 10.57 watts, there we see around 90% efficiency. The battery is clamping the voltage at 12.2 with a .36 amp return or around 4.4 watts going back to the battery and 6.58 watts being dissipated by the load or 10.98 watts total.
He was using test 3 data, IIRC.

If you compare tests 3 and 4, you see input power of 54 and 41 watts for essentially the same output power to load resistor. Obviously everything was warmer when I took data readings in test 4 after running for three hours.

I recall attempting larger load (more output power) but input power increased substantially and some of the components were overloading or becoming unstable.

Regards,

bi
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Old 11-14-2018, 05:12 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Battery measurements

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Originally Posted by hherby View Post
...
How do we measure exactly what is going into/coming out of the battery when we are running between positive potentials?
...

Cheers,
Alex
Simple. Put the wattmeter directly on the battery terminals and all other connections on the other side of the wattmeter. You can verify that with a scope also probed on battery terminals.
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Old 11-14-2018, 06:42 PM
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hherby hherby is online now
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Re: Analysis

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Originally Posted by bistander View Post
I recall attempting larger load (more output power) but input power increased substantially and some of the components were overloading or becoming unstable.

Regards,

bi
Ok, so I take it your motor-generator draws more amps when you put a load on the output?

Cheers,
Alex
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Old 11-14-2018, 07:35 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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so it would seem

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Originally Posted by hherby View Post
Ok, so I take it your motor-generator draws more amps when you put a load on the output?

Cheers,
Alex
Yes, I would think so, but attempting to increase the load on the output only increased the input power and did not really increase measurable output power. I guess it just de-tuned the system (made it less efficient) and/or increased instability.

If you notice the photos, my motor and generator are identical conventional brush/commutator DC machines shaft coupled. When run from a conventional power supply, increasing the load power does increase the input power approximately proportionally.

Regards,

bi
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