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  #4171  
Old 08-10-2018, 04:49 PM
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Getting slick there buddy!
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  #4172  
Old 08-11-2018, 05:49 AM
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Hi there

Hello Turion and Matthew Jones,

I think this is the first time I am posting in this thread and would like to take the opportunity to thank you both for the research and work you have put into this project and your willingness to share it with us all here.
I am looking at doing some work on this as I have been quite interested in the things that have been researched and developed by yourselves.
Like usual I am limited with my time but will try to put some things together, I'll see how it goes.

I have been looking at the 1016, 1020 motor design and have purchased a 1020. It has 20 I-segments and commutator sections.
The 1016 commutator has 16 sections I have divide the 20 sections of the 1020 into 4-1, thats 4 connected together with 1 space then repeat at end connection of wind.
Also divide the windings into 4 sections instead of 3 to give the total of 100 winds giving that I have 20 I-sections. I believe this is what Turion has done.
I have wound the motor with 3 strands of .5mm diameter wire.
Section windings have ended up as - 31,23,23,23 = 100 turns total.

netica
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  #4173  
Old 08-11-2018, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Netica View Post
Hello Turion and Matthew Jones,

I think this is the first time I am posting in this thread and would like to take the opportunity to thank you both for the research and work you have put into this project and your willingness to share it with us all here.
I am looking at doing some work on this as I have been quite interested in the things that have been researched and developed by yourselves.
Like usual I am limited with my time but will try to put some things together, I'll see how it goes.

I have been looking at the 1016, 1020 motor design and have purchased a 1020. It has 20 I-segments and commutator sections.
The 1016 commutator has 16 sections I have divide the 20 sections of the 1020 into 4-1, thats 4 connected together with 1 space then repeat at end connection of wind.
Also divide the windings into 4 sections instead of 3 to give the total of 100 winds giving that I have 20 I-sections. I believe this is what Turion has done.
I have wound the motor with 3 strands of .5mm diameter wire.
Section windings have ended up as - 31,23,23,23 = 100 turns total.

netica
All though there is a lot about power recovery out there I would just tune the back plate for the highest speed and not the most power recovery. Speed is what you want.

The rest sounds real good.

What input voltage was the motor rated for?

Matt
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  #4174  
Old 08-11-2018, 02:20 PM
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Hi Matt,

The voltage when original was 36v but all that wiring has gone now.

I fired it up today and I was surprised how slow it went with 12V. I checked everything because I expected it to go alot faster after seeing the videos.

To get it going fast it needs much higher voltage at least 36v which wasn't bad, but probably 48v. So I'm not sure if thats how its supposed to be. And I did the timing as well as I have made it easily adjustable. Is this how it should be or is it supposed to be high speed at 12volts?
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  #4175  
Old 08-11-2018, 03:39 PM
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My1020

I wish I had known you were going to wind an MY1020. I would have given you better info on winding. I don’t have access to my notes because they are in boxes for the move, but I do remember that it has MORE wire than the MY1016.

I believe the first time I wound one I LOOKED at previous MY1016 motors that I had wound and tried to fill the slots just as full of wire. I kept track of the number of turns per slot so that they would all be roughly the same. But since there is one extra set of turns on the MY1020, that’s quite a bit more wire. And that will impact your speed. I run mine on 24 volts.
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  #4176  
Old 08-11-2018, 05:02 PM
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I have never wound one so I do not know.

Really what you gotta tell us is whats current draw and RPM, then I might be able to tell ya where to go.

Matt
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  #4177  
Old 08-12-2018, 03:36 AM
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Turion do you remember if it was 3 stranded or different?
Was it the same gauge wire you used as the 1016?
Anything you may remember would be helpful.

I can only fit around 31 turns in the first section, maybe a couple more but not enough to make any real difference I would say. The other sections I could bring up to 30 winds, but thats only another 20 to 25 or so winds in total.

Matt these are some figures of it running.
12v 1.3A 960rpm
24v 1.5A 1980rpm
36v 2.0A 2880rpm
48v 2.1A 3480rpm


Thanks
netica
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  #4178  
Old 08-12-2018, 11:19 AM
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Ya there is something wrong with that Your current should stay about the same all way across the board. I usually run:

12 v 2800 rpms about 1.2 amp
24 v 5200 rpms 1.3 amp
ect...

You may want to check for short to the stator, or you may need to adjust the back plate beyond where the magnets stop the bolts. So you have to use clamps for temporary.
Last check to make sure the commutator sections are not narrower than the brush's. If thats the case you'll have top use 2 for off period.
Dip you bearings in light weight oil, sometimes factory ones are sticky.

I am leaning towards the short because of the current behavior.

Keep me posted.

Matt
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  #4179  
Old 08-12-2018, 02:39 PM
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Info

I wound with 3 strands and it was AWG # 23 instead of 24. I have lots of spools of 23 for my generator coils, so I used that instead of ordering more wire.
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  #4180  
Old 08-12-2018, 03:40 PM
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Hi Guys,

I checked for a short after winding and all was ok, It is well insulated all around.
I checked the commutator sections as the brushes are quite wide and although all looked ok I still disconnected another commutator section and had 2 for the off period. It ran quite similar.
I also took the back spring out from behind the bearing just incase the rotor/bearings were tight, I may double check this though, and I made special clamping bolts on the outside so I can adjust for timing.

It runs quite strong and stable at each voltage level. It has some force behind it.

Turin what kind of current draw was your 1020 motor, with and without the generator attached. Did the current go up alot with the generator, If I remember correctly I think i read your set up had around an input of 400watts.
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  #4181  
Old 08-13-2018, 03:25 AM
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Infp

I have not run the generator with a modified motor in a really long time. Here’s why. When I first replicated the little two coil unit run with the modified motor that Matt built, it worked. So I tried to build a 12 coil machine run by the same motor. The amp draw burnt the motors up. So I got another one, rewound it, and burnt it up within a couple days. It made NO SENSE to me to go through all that work of rewinding the motor and then have it burn up, so I resolved to use STOCK motors until I was sure I had the magnetic cogging issue solved. I even went to a rewound MY1020 and burnt it up. I still have it, minus some chunks of the commutator that blew off when it arced. So the numbers of 24 volts at 12 amps are running a STICK MY1020 on my big 12 coil machine with magnetic cogging eliminated. If you build the generator I detailed in the video the amp draw will be LESS. I guarantee it!!
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  #4182  
Old 08-13-2018, 07:47 AM
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This is the whole reason I went straight to the 1020, because of your tests which showed that the smaller motor 1016 was not strong enough for a larger generator, so I thought I would go straight to the larger one and familierize myself with it. Also the cost is pretty much the same, and the time to build would be similar anyway.
So I'm thinking that if I can spin the generator up using around 36v I would have the speed, I would loose a little with the step up voltage but I can see the real current draw under load and that would be most important and if it ends up under what you were using I would be on a winner. At the moment its only around 80watts, that will obviously go up but would be worth seeing what results are like.
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  #4183  
Old 08-13-2018, 01:07 PM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
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@All,
Just another quick update on my Battery swapper project, HERE
The wiring & all setup was simplified, a relay initialization bug was solved (all relays was ON at Arduino Boot for about 2 sec!), and a simple stopwatch is showing on the OLED display time passed, for comparing working cycles.
Now it's time to focus on conditional voltage loops...
Best regards.
P.S. Now the link should work
Attached Images
File Type: jpg _ 20180810_135255.jpg (305.3 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg _ 20180810_135300.jpg (161.5 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg _ 20180810_135309.jpg (150.0 KB, 23 views)
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Last edited by axxelxavier; 08-14-2018 at 06:16 AM. Reason: video troubles
  #4184  
Old 08-13-2018, 03:13 PM
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Replication

Guys, I promised myself to only share results or help with concrete input in this thread. However, I must break that promise this one time. There are things at work here that are not conventional electrical theory. There is an interplay between the field components of electricity that is not fully understood. When you make changes in the slightest from what Matt and Dave are sharing all results go out the window. That is, unless you know something about the interplay of fields that are not common knowledge. Follow the direction given to the letter and treat this as a proof of concept. They have spent much time and money to get this far. Take advantage of that. When you have a working SYSTEM, then you can work on the concepts that will allow scale. Changing the device, changes the iron mass, the magnetic concentration/compression, the dielectric, the capacitance, etc. All factors and much more. Replicate, then study the WTF. Just saying.

Randy
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  #4185  
Old 08-13-2018, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axxelxavier View Post
@All,
Just another quick update on my Battery swapper project, HERE
The wiring & all setup was simplified, a relay initialization bug was solved (all relays was ON at Arduino Boot for about 2 sec!), and a simple stopwatch is showing on the OLED display time passed, for comparing working cycles.
Now it's time to focus on conditional voltage loops...
Best regards.
Youtube link above does not seem to be working - just get a black youtube screen with an "!"
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  #4186  
Old 08-14-2018, 06:17 AM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewizard View Post
Youtube link above does not seem to be working - just get a black youtube screen with an "!"
Sorry, my bad, now it should work.
Best regards,
Teo
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  #4187  
Old 08-14-2018, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axxelxavier View Post
@All,
Just another quick update on my Battery swapper project, HERE
The wiring & all setup was simplified, a relay initialization bug was solved (all relays was ON at Arduino Boot for about 2 sec!), and a simple stopwatch is showing on the OLED display time passed, for comparing working cycles.
Now it's time to focus on conditional voltage loops...
Best regards.
P.S. Now the link should work
Good initiative!
Why don't work on a 3BGS battery swapper in line with Dave and Matt first?
I can sponsor you for any parts you might need for this.
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  #4188  
Old 08-15-2018, 01:24 AM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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3 Battery problem.

The potential is the voltage differential between the power and destination battery. For example, the power of 12 volts sent to a receiver battery of 6 volts only has a power potential of 6 volts. The charged battery depletes and the receiver battery rises in power, so the potential difference drops at an accelerated rate, faster then the power would dissipate from a positive to negative ground. When the batteries draw close to each other in charge, there's hardly any relative power potential difference to run system.

I'd like to try the 3 battery system with my oscillator, but I can' imagine how I can get it to work for any considerable length of time.
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  #4189  
Old 08-15-2018, 09:00 AM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
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Good initiative!
Why don't work on a 3BGS battery swapper in line with Dave and Matt first?
I can sponsor you for any parts you might need for this.
Thank you for your encouragement! Actually, this will be the next step, because I have also 3 batteries, and using of a dc-dc booster in the 2 batts setup involve, inevitably, some loses. I have also, an MY1016 waiting to be winded.
Anyway, the battery swapper for 3BGS setup looks a little more complicated, but I think it can be done.
I send you, also, a PM.
Best regards,
Teodor
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  #4190  
Old 08-15-2018, 10:33 AM
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No problems whatsoever.

@Allen
I have seen that after having my batteries unused for few days, then the first round I start with the 3BGS setup, only then, the voltage rises relatively quick. But even that time, I get to use it, quite a long time before I have to switch. Every next round can last many hours before switching. So there is no problem of time whatsoever with this setup.
#4168 Randy made a very valid suggestion.
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  #4191  
Old 08-16-2018, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
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One of the biggest losses in the system you have to make up for is the boost modules, and they are MORE efficient at higher voltages. But high voltage DC is deadly, so there is always that risk when you get TOO carried away. And we were trying to show an inexpensive system that WORKS and proves what we have been saying. I’m not going to talk about something I have not run myself. Matt has done way more work running on potentials than I have, so maybe he will comment. All my time has been devoted to the generator side.
Hi Turion,
Would you be able to reshare a link to your post of the generator?

Thank you,
Ray
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  #4192  
Old 08-16-2018, 10:50 PM
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Hi Turion,
Would you be able to reshare a link to your post of the generator?

Thank you,
Ray
What do you want on the generator? I am very busy but I am also trying to put together a generator that is relatively cheap to build and can easily replicated.

What is it you need?

Matt
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  #4193  
Old 08-17-2018, 03:58 AM
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Generator Link

The link to the generator build is in post 3874
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  #4194  
Old 08-17-2018, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
What do you want on the generator? I am very busy but I am also trying to put together a generator that is relatively cheap to build and can easily replicated.

What is it you need?

Matt
My need is to completely replicate your system in a 1KW/2KW range and further learn from it and make it available to a greater public.

I don't have much time myself to build, but I like supporting other builders.
I am a great admirer of your work for the past years.
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  #4195  
Old 08-19-2018, 05:35 PM
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Also

I did a little back reading of this thread and remembered why I left. So much counterproductive conversation. So, to keep your thinking on point. The pulse motor is not the generator. It is a primary mover and exciter. It excites the dielectric of the BATTERY. The battery then also becomes a transducer. To do this with one battery is no small feat. The timing must be perfect or the load must be cancelled out. It is easier to do it with a “charging battery”. There is a reason JB’s setup was the way it was. He did say many times he has shown us all of it. He had, but one thing. The explanation of what was going on and what the different parts do. All these systems are using the excitation of the dielectric to convert certain field energies into bipolar electricity. This is a simplification, but true to most understanding. Work on that premise. To measure anything other than ALL the components listed by David and Matt and call it the same thing is a complete waste of everyone’s time. This is not electricity 101. It is something different, the graduation from particle mechanics theory into field mechanics. Knowledge is forever expanding. Move with it.
Randy
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  #4196  
Old 08-20-2018, 05:06 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Diminishing return

The action of the oscillator is very easy to gauge. The basic problem with the 3 battery system is that the voltage closes between the source and receiver batteries, so the power grows steadily weaker.

Let's say we have two 6 volt batteries in series to a third split positive 6 volt battery. Now, after running awhile, we measure the voltage and find 10 volts in the two source batteries and 8 volts in the receiver battery. That leaves a potential difference of only 2 volts. We stared with a potential difference of 6 volts.

This wearing of power strength is very noticeable in the oscillator, but would require torque measurements to factor in to an over all COP.

The 3 battery procedure lengthens run time but only at the expense of steadily decreasing power as the voltages loose their potential difference to each other.
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  #4197  
Old 08-20-2018, 06:22 PM
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A few options

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Burgess View Post
The action of the oscillator is very easy to gauge. The basic problem with the 3 battery system is that the voltage closes between the source and receiver batteries, so the power grows steadily weaker.

Let's say we have two 6 volt batteries in series to a third split positive 6 volt battery. Now, after running awhile, we measure the voltage and find 10 volts in the two source batteries and 8 volts in the receiver battery. That leaves a potential difference of only 2 volts. We stared with a potential difference of 6 volts.

This wearing of power strength is very noticeable in the oscillator, but would require torque measurements to factor in to an over all COP.

The 3 battery procedure lengthens run time but only at the expense of steadily decreasing power as the voltages loose their potential difference to each other.
There are a few ways to deal with this that have been mentioned
-Use big batteries
-Rotate batteries
-Use a boost convertor to output a steady voltage (see picture)

Alex
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  #4198  
Old 08-20-2018, 07:19 PM
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All 3

For BEST results you want to use ALL THREE of those options. People who don’t will never see the potential of this setup.
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  #4199  
Old 08-21-2018, 01:51 AM
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Boy I swear just when get rid of one idiot 2 more show up. Thanks Randy and Allen thats what we needed two more dip$hits who do nothing.

Matt
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  #4200  
Old 08-21-2018, 02:31 AM
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Your Welcome!

No worries buddy!
Have fun.

Randy
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