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  #4171  
Old 08-14-2018, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axxelxavier View Post
@All,
Just another quick update on my Battery swapper project, HERE
The wiring & all setup was simplified, a relay initialization bug was solved (all relays was ON at Arduino Boot for about 2 sec!), and a simple stopwatch is showing on the OLED display time passed, for comparing working cycles.
Now it's time to focus on conditional voltage loops...
Best regards.
P.S. Now the link should work
Good initiative!
Why don't work on a 3BGS battery swapper in line with Dave and Matt first?
I can sponsor you for any parts you might need for this.
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  #4172  
Old 08-15-2018, 01:24 AM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is online now
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3 Battery problem.

The potential is the voltage differential between the power and destination battery. For example, the power of 12 volts sent to a receiver battery of 6 volts only has a power potential of 6 volts. The charged battery depletes and the receiver battery rises in power, so the potential difference drops at an accelerated rate, faster then the power would dissipate from a positive to negative ground. When the batteries draw close to each other in charge, there's hardly any relative power potential difference to run system.

I'd like to try the 3 battery system with my oscillator, but I can' imagine how I can get it to work for any considerable length of time.
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  #4173  
Old 08-15-2018, 09:00 AM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
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Originally Posted by Majestic81 View Post
Good initiative!
Why don't work on a 3BGS battery swapper in line with Dave and Matt first?
I can sponsor you for any parts you might need for this.
Thank you for your encouragement! Actually, this will be the next step, because I have also 3 batteries, and using of a dc-dc booster in the 2 batts setup involve, inevitably, some loses. I have also, an MY1016 waiting to be winded.
Anyway, the battery swapper for 3BGS setup looks a little more complicated, but I think it can be done.
I send you, also, a PM.
Best regards,
Teodor
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  #4174  
Old 08-15-2018, 10:33 AM
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No problems whatsoever.

@Allen
I have seen that after having my batteries unused for few days, then the first round I start with the 3BGS setup, only then, the voltage rises relatively quick. But even that time, I get to use it, quite a long time before I have to switch. Every next round can last many hours before switching. So there is no problem of time whatsoever with this setup.
#4168 Randy made a very valid suggestion.
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  #4175  
Old 08-16-2018, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Turion View Post
One of the biggest losses in the system you have to make up for is the boost modules, and they are MORE efficient at higher voltages. But high voltage DC is deadly, so there is always that risk when you get TOO carried away. And we were trying to show an inexpensive system that WORKS and proves what we have been saying. I’m not going to talk about something I have not run myself. Matt has done way more work running on potentials than I have, so maybe he will comment. All my time has been devoted to the generator side.
Hi Turion,
Would you be able to reshare a link to your post of the generator?

Thank you,
Ray
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  #4176  
Old 08-16-2018, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Majestic81 View Post
Hi Turion,
Would you be able to reshare a link to your post of the generator?

Thank you,
Ray
What do you want on the generator? I am very busy but I am also trying to put together a generator that is relatively cheap to build and can easily replicated.

What is it you need?

Matt
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  #4177  
Old 08-17-2018, 03:58 AM
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Generator Link

The link to the generator build is in post 3874
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  #4178  
Old 08-17-2018, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
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What do you want on the generator? I am very busy but I am also trying to put together a generator that is relatively cheap to build and can easily replicated.

What is it you need?

Matt
My need is to completely replicate your system in a 1KW/2KW range and further learn from it and make it available to a greater public.

I don't have much time myself to build, but I like supporting other builders.
I am a great admirer of your work for the past years.
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  #4179  
Old 08-19-2018, 05:35 PM
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Also

I did a little back reading of this thread and remembered why I left. So much counterproductive conversation. So, to keep your thinking on point. The pulse motor is not the generator. It is a primary mover and exciter. It excites the dielectric of the BATTERY. The battery then also becomes a transducer. To do this with one battery is no small feat. The timing must be perfect or the load must be cancelled out. It is easier to do it with a “charging battery”. There is a reason JB’s setup was the way it was. He did say many times he has shown us all of it. He had, but one thing. The explanation of what was going on and what the different parts do. All these systems are using the excitation of the dielectric to convert certain field energies into bipolar electricity. This is a simplification, but true to most understanding. Work on that premise. To measure anything other than ALL the components listed by David and Matt and call it the same thing is a complete waste of everyone’s time. This is not electricity 101. It is something different, the graduation from particle mechanics theory into field mechanics. Knowledge is forever expanding. Move with it.
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  #4180  
Old 08-20-2018, 05:06 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is online now
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Diminishing return

The action of the oscillator is very easy to gauge. The basic problem with the 3 battery system is that the voltage closes between the source and receiver batteries, so the power grows steadily weaker.

Let's say we have two 6 volt batteries in series to a third split positive 6 volt battery. Now, after running awhile, we measure the voltage and find 10 volts in the two source batteries and 8 volts in the receiver battery. That leaves a potential difference of only 2 volts. We stared with a potential difference of 6 volts.

This wearing of power strength is very noticeable in the oscillator, but would require torque measurements to factor in to an over all COP.

The 3 battery procedure lengthens run time but only at the expense of steadily decreasing power as the voltages loose their potential difference to each other.
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  #4181  
Old 08-20-2018, 06:22 PM
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A few options

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Burgess View Post
The action of the oscillator is very easy to gauge. The basic problem with the 3 battery system is that the voltage closes between the source and receiver batteries, so the power grows steadily weaker.

Let's say we have two 6 volt batteries in series to a third split positive 6 volt battery. Now, after running awhile, we measure the voltage and find 10 volts in the two source batteries and 8 volts in the receiver battery. That leaves a potential difference of only 2 volts. We stared with a potential difference of 6 volts.

This wearing of power strength is very noticeable in the oscillator, but would require torque measurements to factor in to an over all COP.

The 3 battery procedure lengthens run time but only at the expense of steadily decreasing power as the voltages loose their potential difference to each other.
There are a few ways to deal with this that have been mentioned
-Use big batteries
-Rotate batteries
-Use a boost convertor to output a steady voltage (see picture)

Alex
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File Type: jpg boost.jpg (20.2 KB, 40 views)
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  #4182  
Old 08-20-2018, 07:19 PM
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All 3

For BEST results you want to use ALL THREE of those options. People who don’t will never see the potential of this setup.
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  #4183  
Old 08-21-2018, 01:51 AM
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Boy I swear just when get rid of one idiot 2 more show up. Thanks Randy and Allen thats what we needed two more dip$hits who do nothing.

Matt
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  #4184  
Old 08-21-2018, 02:31 AM
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Your Welcome!

No worries buddy!
Have fun.

Randy
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  #4185  
Old 08-21-2018, 06:09 PM
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Other Boost convertor test configurations

My Goal was to address the differential voltages and simplify the battery rotation scheme by only switching between 2 or 3 24v banks. Also to determine how much (if any) of the losses in the system could be made up for by the boost convertor + cap dumper arrangement.

The boost voltage to the load could be set to a constant 14.9v or higher. It could also be set lower but the load would start out at the max differential voltage minus the output diode voltage drop until battery A+B drops below the boost convertor set point.

The cap in series with the load maintained a steady 10.3v due to the fact the chipset of the boost convertor connected across the cap would cease to function when the source voltage drops to 10.3 volts. I took advantage of that operating characteristic to maintain a higher voltage differential.

I did this some time ago but can't find my test notes so this is from memory.

The comparator cap dumper peak voltage/dump frequency could be adjusted easily for maximum charging rate of battery (bank) C. I had best results by setting the comparator for only a few volts above battery C with several discharges/sec. That was what my batteries (in the shape they were in) seemed to like best.

In Peter Lindeman's SG Beyond presentation, for some reason he didn't include or forgot to mention battery charge/discharge efficiencies as part of the losses in the system. He only mentioned wire/coil resistances and voltage drops across transistors and diodes as the minimal electrical losses that needed to be overcome. He indirectly inferred the DC generator waveform of the constant current followed by a spike would address the charge efficiency of the battery in the charge position.

The boost convertor in concert with the comparator cap dumper boosts the charge efficiency of battery C on the basis of Teslas method of conversion in my opinion. IE, converting a low voltage low current source into high voltage high current impulses to produce a gain.

Recycling the inductor charging current from the negative leg of BC #1 in the second config extends the run time of batteries A and B.

If your load can tolerate the full differential range of 14.9v to 11.7v, you could omit BC #1. Using a cap in series with the load provides a higher voltage differential for the load/ boost convertor + load to work with.

I make no claims on the COP of this arrangement. It would need much more cycle testing than I had time to complete but the experiment looked promising. Your mileage may vary.

Alex
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  #4186  
Old 08-26-2018, 02:55 PM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
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My1016 Current draw

Greetings,
Finally, I had the time to finish my motor winding, epoxy and balancing included. Also, I`ve changed the original bearings with brand new quality bearings. Current draw of the motor, thought, is around 3,8-4 amp at 12 -24 volt.

Edit 1. I forgot to mention - each winding measure 0,4 Ohm, 40 turns+30 turns+30 turns, 24 AWG x 3 wires (actually 0,55 mm - between 23 and 24 AWG).
Edit 2. After sanding the copper contacts, and switching the metallic case of the magnets holder, the current draw dropped to 2,5-2,6 amp. Unfortunately, no tacho available, so no speed measurement.
I added, also, a movie with test nr. 2 of the motor, HERE
I think the current draw can be improved even more.
Edit 3. First test was for one hour, and current draw decrease from 1,8 amp (14 volt differential) to 1,7 amp (12,5 volt differential). VERY INTERESTING - Batt 1 and 2 was 12,7 volt and Batt 3 was 12,1 volt, and all setup run for at least 30 minutes very steady, ALL batts at 12,5 volt. Too bad I had to shut down the motor, IT WAS VERY HOT... I have to find a way to remove the heat from the motor.
Did anybody tried to make some ventilation holes in the plates? just asking...
Best regards,
Teo
Attached Images
File Type: jpg _ DSC_0004.jpg (237.8 KB, 32 views)
File Type: jpg _ DSC_0006.jpg (202.1 KB, 32 views)
File Type: jpg _ DSC_0008.jpg (224.6 KB, 33 views)
File Type: jpg _ DSC_0009.jpg (212.5 KB, 32 views)
File Type: jpg _ DSC_0010.jpg (153.2 KB, 33 views)
File Type: jpg 20180826_211959.jpg (236.2 KB, 27 views)
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Last edited by axxelxavier; 08-26-2018 at 07:26 PM. Reason: Adding some info - no reason for two postings....
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  #4187  
Old 08-26-2018, 10:40 PM
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overcoming the typical battery inefficiencies

Quote:
Originally Posted by hherby View Post
He indirectly inferred the DC generator waveform of the constant current followed by a spike would address the charge efficiency of the battery in the charge position.

Alex,


Benitez spells that same thing out almost word for word in one of his patents. It is one of the most blatant "free energy" claims I've ever seen in a patent. Our experience shows it is right on the money, in my opinion. Peter spells it out and shows it in the patent in his recent presentation on the Benitez subject.
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  #4188  
Old 08-26-2018, 10:42 PM
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Hook that current meter up and adjust the backplate. That current should go down and the speed should go up. All these motors vary slightly and the tuning point for best speed and low current is a little different in each one.

A tach is important most are 15 - 20 dollars
https://www.amazon.com/AGPtek®-Profe...eld+tachometer

They help alot.

Good work
Matt
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  #4189  
Old 08-27-2018, 05:19 AM
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re: overcoming the typical battery inefficiencies

Hi Aaron,
I sent you a PM.
Thanks,
Alex
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  #4190  
Old 08-27-2018, 05:44 AM
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Robert Alexander Patent US3913004

Hi,
I think I found this patent included in part of a collection of Robert Brandt documents. Is this something that could be incorporated into Matt's motor?
Alex
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  #4191  
Old 08-27-2018, 02:47 PM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
Hook that current meter up and adjust the backplate. That current should go down and the speed should go up.
Can you be more specific, please? What can I adjust on the backplate? There I have only contacts, brushes and bearing place...
Best regards,
Teodor
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  #4192  
Old 08-27-2018, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axxelxavier View Post
Can you be more specific, please? What can I adjust on the backplate? There I have only contacts, brushes and bearing place...
Best regards,
Teodor
axxelxavier,
Matt is talking about adjusting the timing of the motor to advance or retard the firing just like turning the distributor on an older car engine to adjust the spark plug timing. This is done by turning the back plate clockwise or counter clockwise on the motor casing. You make a small adjustment and lock it down. You may have to find a way to clamp the backplate since the bolt holes in the backplate will no longer line up with the bolts. Then run the motor and measure the amp draw and the rpm. Keep adjusting until you get the highest speed and lowest amp draw.
Hope this helps.

Alex
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  #4193  
Old 08-27-2018, 05:17 PM
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Timing

axel Xavier,
On Matt’s motor you rotate the entire back plate to change the timing. The bolts that hold it together limit this. Many of us have removed the bolts to give us more adjustment range, which makes keeping the motor together difficult.
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  #4194  
Old 08-27-2018, 05:20 PM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hherby View Post
axxelxavier, Matt is talking about adjusting the timing of the motor [...].This is done by turning the back plate clockwise or counter clockwise on the motor casing. [...]Hope this helps. Alex
Thank you, Alex. How about the heating of the motor, it's normal the motor to be hot after using only 15 min? Last night I had to shut down the motor after one hour of testing, I could make fried eggs on it
Best regards,
Teodor.
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Old 08-27-2018, 05:28 PM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
axel Xavier, On Matt’s motor you rotate the entire back plate to change the timing. The bolts that hold it together limit this. Many of us have removed the bolts to give us more adjustment range, which makes keeping the motor together difficult.
Thank you for your reply, I will find other way to hold together the motor. Also, not sure how to cool down the motor, it is frustrating to test only one hour... maybe I'm wrong, but because the motor it is so hot I have the impression that is it about to explode...
Edit 1. OK, thank you @Turion and @hherby - I did find a way to hold the motor, which allowed me to find quickly the „sweet spot” of the motor. More details in pictures. Now the motor it`s drawing around 1,3-1,4 amps, and it is time for a longer test, to see if the heating issue is gone or not. A short movie, HERE
Edit 2.After 30 min, the motor seems to heat up much less, and the setup is already in equilibrium - all batts are showing 12,5 volts. This test will continue another 30 min. Tomorrow, another test, this time much longer.
Best regards,
Teodor
Attached Images
File Type: jpg _ 20180827_223047.jpg (166.5 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg _ 20180827_223945.jpg (215.3 KB, 27 views)
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  #4196  
Old 08-28-2018, 05:07 PM
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Just a quick update: I thought it would be interesting to try to find a way to eliminate the heat, so in the pictures are the results... and a short movie, HERE
After a 15 minutes test with motor hooked up at 24 volts, MY1016 is quite hot, but still operational - before, it was very hot at only 12 volt, also, after 15 min.
Edit 1. After 30 min, it looks like the backplate it's going really hot, also, the both holes from sides generate warm air, so I think this may be the best quick solution to prevent overheating, or to prolong running time. Actually, the spacing between all 4 magnets allow to make 4 holes, even bigger than mine, and the magnets, including the plastic holder, can be removed to make the ventilation holes.
Edit 2. After running very hot one hour at 24 volt, I decided to test the motor at only 12 volts differential (no booster) on 3BGS.
So the motor is running for almost 2 hours, and the last hour is running cooler than previous tests on 12 volts - so I think this mod can be used on 12 volts. For 24 volts, I think the case need more holes between magnets. Some foto with temperatures added, this post in Fahrenheit degrees.

@all,
How long did you keep your MY1016 running?

Best regards,
Teodor
Attached Images
File Type: jpg _ 20180828_182916.jpg (213.5 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg _ 20180828_194530.jpg (164.9 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg _ 20180828_194543.jpg (61.8 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg _ 20180828_221107.jpg (171.4 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg _ 20180828_221117.jpg (191.5 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg _ 20180828_221143.jpg (196.3 KB, 14 views)
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Last edited by axxelxavier; 08-28-2018 at 07:18 PM.
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  #4197  
Old 08-28-2018, 07:25 PM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
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Other pictures, this time in Celsius degrees. The biggest temperatures can be observed in the 4-th picture, with sensor on side hole. Pictures taken at cca 2,4 running time hours.
Very quiet in here...
L.E. Anyway, the motor was running for 4 hours continuously, last 3 hours on 12 volts, and the temperature of the MY1016 is constant, the motor is only warm, as can be seen in pictures.
For 24 volts or for using on big loads, though, some suplimentar ventilation holes must be done on sides. I would make bigger holes, also, on the back plate, because this is warmer than frontplate.
Best regards,
Teodor
Attached Images
File Type: jpg _ 20180828_220551.jpg (215.3 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg _ 20180828_220704.jpg (237.8 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg _ 20180828_220832.jpg (192.6 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg _ 20180828_220949.jpg (201.9 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg _ 20180828_221014.jpg (210.6 KB, 20 views)
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Last edited by axxelxavier; 08-28-2018 at 08:58 PM.
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  #4198  
Old 08-29-2018, 09:27 AM
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I have run mine for hours on end maybe 8 at the most testing.

The only true way to make the thing cool is to use a ferrite material for the rotor. I have not had a chance to test it though. The material has to be a finer grain 200 mic and mixed and set with fiberglass reinforced epoxy. Maybe mixed at 80/20 epoxy and poured into a 3d printed shell to take shape. No alignment.

Turion started to test it but then had to move his house and thats still a ways out. Not sure when I'll get to it.

Hysteresis caused by the returned power is what causes the heat and no amount of venting is going to change that, just relive it a little.

If you pulling more than 1.3-1.5 amp at 24v while idling something is still wrong but I can't be sure what. Mine runs at 1.4 24v and heats up to 31c at +- 5200 rpms. Its tuned for speed not returned energy.

Matt
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  #4199  
Old 08-30-2018, 05:48 PM
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Hi Matt, Turion

As far as I understand the modified motor provides a pulse of power back to the positive from where the power comes from, now that has to go through the boost converter before it gets back to the battery, The boost converters have diodes in them because of how they work.
My question is how does the pulse get through the boost converter back to the battery positive, as I can't see how it gets past the boost converter.

netica
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Old 08-30-2018, 06:54 PM
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Build and test it to find out.....


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Originally Posted by Netica View Post
Hi Matt, Turion

As far as I understand the modified motor provides a pulse of power back to the positive from where the power comes from, now that has to go through the boost converter before it gets back to the battery, The boost converters have diodes in them because of how they work.
My question is how does the pulse get through the boost converter back to the battery positive, as I can't see how it gets past the boost converter.

netica
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