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  #4141  
Old 01-27-2019, 10:29 AM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Running an inverter between the positives you are hitting battery 3 with 12 volts to begin with, which is your potential difference, but as the primary batteries go down and battery 3 charges, your potential difference drops below the standing voltage of battery 3. That's an incredibly costly way to try and charge battery 3, and your results will reflect that. The purpose of the boost module is to maintain the input voltage hitting battery 3 at 14.5 volts or HIGHER so that it is ALWAYS getting hit with a higher voltage than its standing voltage. Your results will reflect THAT as well.
Problem is that differential voltage is @14,5 volt in the beginning, and it's dropping to almost 9 volt in the end, so I don't think a normal booster would work for my 12 volt load.
It should be easier if my load voltage is on 24 volts, but my inverter is working on 12 volts... I will try later the modified motor setup on 24 volts, but after I will find a way to cut the big noise.
So, any suggestion? I want to try again with the inverter and booster, but what setup to choose? 3BGS with booster (I am not quite sure, though, if it will work, because of the big voltage in the beginning, or the setup with 2 batteries, who need booster to work?
Which should be the most efficient?
Best regards,
Teodor
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  #4142  
Old 01-27-2019, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axxelxavier View Post
Problem is that differential voltage is @14,5 volt in the beginning, and it's dropping to almost 9 volt in the end, so I don't think a normal booster would work for my 12 volt load.
It should be easier if my load voltage is on 24 volts, but my inverter is working on 12 volts... I will try later the modified motor setup on 24 volts, but after I will find a way to cut the big noise.
So, any suggestion? I want to try again with the inverter and booster, but what setup to choose? 3BGS with booster (I am not quite sure, though, if it will work, because of the big voltage in the beginning, or the setup with 2 batteries, who need booster to work?
Which should be the most efficient?
Best regards,
Teodor
Not sure what kind of inverter you have, most of the ones I have used over the years can handle up 15-16 volts then automatically shuts off around 10-10.5 volts. Most of the boost modules allow you to adjust the voltage, so you could adjust it so ithe initial differential doesn't exceed your inverter's upper limit.
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  #4143  
Old 01-27-2019, 05:04 PM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawt2 View Post
Not sure what kind of inverter you have, most of the ones I have used over the years can handle up 15-16 volts then automatically shuts off around 10-10.5 volts. Most of the boost modules allow you to adjust the voltage, so you could adjust it so ithe initial differential doesn't exceed your inverter's upper limit.
About booster, I thought there must be a voltage difference between in and out, in order to work properly. Today I've learned I was wrong, so a new test began.
About my inverter, is is 300 watt inverter, nothing special, except it's working between 9,6 - 15 volts, so I hooked up to my setup the booster set to 14,7 volt on output.
I have the data from previous test, so the differences should be visible from the very first run.
Best regards,
Teodor
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  #4144  
Old 01-27-2019, 06:48 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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In for a shock!

Well,a shock is just what I got when I embarked on my first 24/7 project.
How those little losses add up to ruin the results.
When you think about it, that little remote with a coin cell locks your car
for years. My greedy Arduino Leonardo was responsible for a lot of the
grief, that would have to go. Itís possible to do away with the development
board and just use the chip.Nick Gammon on the Arduino forum has a
detailed post on how to minimise current draw, he knows every trick in the
book.
When it comes to lead acid batteries thereís a point most people donít seem
to take in to account, that is the RTE,or round trip efficiency, a common
figure quoted is somewhere between 90 and 95 per cent,this means that
every time you charge you lose at least 5 per cent.
To get a decent life out of lead acid itís good to go at least 50per cent more
capacity than you need.Sulphation rears itís ugly head when you get below
about 12.3v.
Switching has to be watched too, if you have half a dozen relays at 99.5%
and say the average consumption is 200 Watts that adds up to a fair
chunk over the 8000 odd hours a year.
I donít care if you think Iím an idiot, but as far as Iím concerned making
the most of your hard earned energy canít be bad.
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  #4145  
Old 01-27-2019, 08:50 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Youtube.

https://youtu.be/npc3uzEVvc0
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  #4146  
Old 01-27-2019, 11:05 PM
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topping charge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamnuts View Post
When it comes to lead acid batteries thereís a point most people donít seem
to take in to account, that is the RTE,or round trip efficiency, a common
figure quoted is somewhere between 90 and 95 per cent,this means that
every time you charge you lose at least 5 per cent.
To get a decent life out of lead acid itís good to go at least 50per cent more
capacity than you need.Sulphation rears itís ugly head when you get below
about 12.3v.

If you actually knew how batteries work, you can get an INCREASE in capacity with each charge cycle up to 10% above the manufacturers rated capacity and keep it there virtually indefinitely. And you can do this while discharging deep cycles down to 10.5 volts every single time as the chemistry is 100% reversible to like-new condition. You don't seem to understand how to deliver a true topping charge to a lead acid battery and what to look for in order to know when it is actually ready.
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Aaron Murakami

  #4147  
Old 01-28-2019, 02:13 AM
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Sawt2 Sawt2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axxelxavier View Post
About booster, I thought there must be a voltage difference between in and out, in order to work properly. Today I've learned I was wrong, so a new test began.
About my inverter, is is 300 watt inverter, nothing special, except it's working between 9,6 - 15 volts, so I hooked up to my setup the booster set to 14,7 volt on output.
I have the data from previous test, so the differences should be visible from the very first run.
Best regards,
Teodor
Great, I hope your experiments go well for you.
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  #4148  
Old 01-28-2019, 05:01 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Easy solution

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Here is the main reason you don't want to patent your invention

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invention_Secrecy_Act

They basically kill the patent, put a gag order on you so you can't even talk about your idea, and you are given NO compensation. Better to sell it to the highest bidder for whatever you can get than to try and patent it and end up with nothing. I WOULD say the best idea is to disclose it on a forum like THIS, but nobody will believe you, so that's a waste. Better to sell it for what you can get.
All you have to do is provide proof or, at least, provide supporting evidence of your claims. People don't believe you when you refuse to support your claims with the proof you say that you have.

Regards,

bi
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  #4149  
Old 01-28-2019, 05:15 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Battery charging

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Running an inverter between the positives you are hitting battery 3 with 12 volts to begin with, which is your potential difference, but as the primary batteries go down and battery 3 charges, your potential difference drops below the standing voltage of battery 3. That's an incredibly costly way to try and charge battery 3, and your results will reflect that. The purpose of the boost module is to maintain the input voltage hitting battery 3 at 14.5 volts or HIGHER so that it is ALWAYS getting hit with a higher voltage than its standing voltage. Your results will reflect THAT as well.
Hi Turion,

So what is inferred by your statement is that you do not subscribe to the universally accepted charge algorithm which starts with the bulk phase of constant current, often noted as CC/CV, constant current followed by constant voltage.

You also have said on numerous occasions to keep current at or below C/20. So it would appear that axxelxavier has properly controlled his experiment. Can you show us test data where you, or someone, has boosted voltage like you say and been able to maintain the C/20 current level?

Thanks,

bi
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  #4150  
Old 01-28-2019, 06:06 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Spoon fed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
hi,
The kind of people I am interested in working with are those that are curious enough and dedicated enough to see something of interest and research it for themselves. Not those who demand to be spoon fed everything. Matt and I know what we know because we investigated and researched. NOT because we stood around with our hands in our pockets waiting for ANYONE to prove ANYTHING to us.

You canít even imagine the number if things I built that DIDNíT work before I found something that did. If you donít want to build and test this stuff, DONíT. But why do you continue to hang around here if youíre not going to build???
It only makes sense if you are a disinformation agent trying to keep people from exploring this avenue.
I still do not understand how requesting proof of your claim equates to "spoon fed".

But enough.

bi
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  #4151  
Old 01-28-2019, 06:25 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Empirical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
If you actually knew how batteries work, you can get an INCREASE in capacity with each charge cycle up to 10% above the manufacturers rated capacity and keep it there virtually indefinitely. And you can do this while discharging deep cycles down to 10.5 volts every single time as the chemistry is 100% reversible to like-new condition. You don't seem to understand how to deliver a true topping charge to a lead acid battery and what to look for in order to know when it is actually ready.
Just point me to the empirical and Iíll believe you.
Bedini sparked my interest and I wasted a shed load of time on that.
Nobody I know ever had success with Bedini motors.
Iíve ruined a good few batteries in my time.
Itís all to easy to make a claim but far more difficult to prove it!
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  #4152  
Old 01-28-2019, 07:02 PM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
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Just a quick update.
As I told you, my test now it's using a booster, set on 14,7 volts on the output.
Total time running, so far, is 6 hours, 43 min, and battery 3 seems to be charged faster, BUT, C20 rate are exceeded, because current draw on the input of the booster (which was in the beginning at 2 amps) now is on 2,62 Amp, and it's increasing (differential voltage on the input = 11,47 volts). On the output of the DC booster (going to the inverter), current draw is 1,74 amp.
Not sure what to do, though. I think I am going to let the system to work for 2 more hours, and I am going to measure the current draw before stop it. If it will exceed 4 Amp, I think I am going to shut down my test. I cannot afford to kill a good battery...
Now I am using a 150 watt, like the first image in the attachment, with no current limit.
I have also a bigger one (1200 watt - second image in the attachment) which have an option to limit current... this should be better?
Best regards,
Teodor
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20120618152314601(1).JPG (61.6 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg descărcare.jpg (13.9 KB, 6 views)
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Last edited by axxelxavier; 01-28-2019 at 07:17 PM.
  #4153  
Old 01-28-2019, 07:41 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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I'll tell you why

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
If you want proof, build an accurate replication. Then you will have it. I will not provide it. Because what YOU know or don't know is up to YOU and YOUR research. It is not up to me or mine. If you don't want to do that, why hang around here? You cannot seem to answer THAT question.
Looking for proof of claims of free energy and/or over unity made people like you. And in the process to expose falsehoods whether they be honest mistakes or deliberate fraud. I have learned a great deal not only about science but also about human nature. This is an open forum and as long as I don't rub Aaron too much, I am entitled to post reasonable questions and pertinent statements. The method to make me stop is to post truth, facts, evidence and proof.

Simple, right?

bi
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  #4154  
Old 01-28-2019, 09:22 PM
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RTA irrelevant

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamnuts View Post
Just point me to the empirical and I’ll believe you.
Bedini sparked my interest and I wasted a shed load of time on that.
Nobody I know ever had success with Bedini motors.
I’ve ruined a good few batteries in my time.
It’s all to easy to make a claim but far more difficult to prove it!
Nearly $2 million in R & D went into proving just that showing the charging chart in the "battery bible" is correct. I don't need to prove anything to you. Thousands of customers around the world have benefited over the years with the EnergenX chargers that accomplish this topping charge.

I know people that have not gotten results and most have not paid attention to what has been said - sounds like you fit this category. Has been proven time and time again. There are countless charge and discharge graphs that have been posted for years showing an increase in capacity with each successive charge. This is indisputable. That is with old batteries that have been brought back. With new batteries, you can keep the full capacity almost indefinitely if topped properly.

The topping charge chart from the battery bible is in this free book and has been there for years Free Solar Secrets or you can download the battery bible. Anyone can put a CBA-IV or similar on a battery while charging it up for the charge graph, charge it until you see the voltage dip at the top around 15.1-15.3, then it is done.

Taking the S2A12 and putting it on a brand new battery such as a 100Ah lead acid will instantly push the capacity to about 110Ah on the very first charge. I've done that countless times and so many many others.

Losing 5% on each charge? That's beyond ridiculous - why don't you show a chart of losing 5% on each cycle and show all of us here when a deep cycle drops below 10.5 volts? You can do that in Excel - start with full capacity then reduce by 5%, then from that total reduce by 5% and so on. You will prove one thing - you are spreading nonsense that has no basis in reality because everyone's experience will show that their deep cycles last many more charge cycles than what you are claiming.

What you claim can only apply to those who do not charge their batteries properly by using conventional charges that only go to 13.8 to 14.8 if you're lucky. Too many are conditioned to believe you can charge a battery to those low voltages, then the voltage settles at 12.6 or above and they think that is evidence the battery is charged when it is not. So obviously with those low voltages, there will be sulfation left over, but this forum is full of members who know better who have followed the methods that provide better results for a long time.

With a 35Ah deep cycle, your bogus claim means after the 10th charge cycle, the battery's capacity is only 22Ah. Do you actually expect anyone to believe that? After 10 charge cycles a battery has lost 1/3 of it's capacity? Even with a conventional charger that chronically under charges a battery, you will have way more than 2/3 of the capacity left after 10 charges.

There are 225Ah deep cycle flooded cell lead acids that used to be at EnergenX that are 10-15 years old, which have had hundreds if not thousands of charge/discharge cycles and they are still almost like new. All the plug in and solar charge controllers were tested on the bench before getting shipped. The "load box" would drain the battery(s), then the charger would charge them back up. This was done countless times showing that obviously when giving the true topping charge, it throws out your belief system on the matter, which is irrelevant to those charging their batteries properly. And the forklift? Those batteries were dead and abused when they got that forklift many years ago. We still have that forklift and the batteries are still in excellent shape.

I would challenge you or anyone else who thinks like you to a simple test. Get a CBA-IV or anything that can graph the charging cycle on a laptop. Get a constant voltage constant current adjustable power supply and set it at 15.3 volts, short the output leads and adjust the current to about 2 amps - use a 35Ah deep cycle for example and un-short the leads. Turn power off and wait until the battery is drained. Make sure it is full charged as in like new charge. Drain with 20 hour load until it drops to 10.5 volts. Remove load and hook up the power supply. When you see the voltage get to about 15.1-15.3 volts, you will see a point when the voltage dips. That dip means the impedance of the battery dropped because the final layers of sulfation dissolved back to solution making it more conductive, therefore, there is less back pressure to the voltage so it drops. That is the even you need to look for, which means you reversed the chemistry 100% to like new condition. Repeat that 10 times and tell me if you have lost 5% on each cycle. According to you, on the 10th charge cycle, the battery will only have 22Ah remaining with a 5% loss of the remaining total on each cycle. You will become bored with this test because you will see you get the same capacity out of it every single time. The RTA concept is only necessary to explain the phenomena of losing capacity with crappy charging with crappy chargers but who wants crappy charging methods when batteries cost so much? Not me!
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Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami


Last edited by Aaron; 01-28-2019 at 09:38 PM.
  #4155  
Old 01-28-2019, 09:27 PM
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this thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Looking for proof of claims of free energy and/or over unity made people like you. And in the process to expose falsehoods whether they be honest mistakes or deliberate fraud. I have learned a great deal not only about science but also about human nature. This is an open forum and as long as I don't rub Aaron too much, I am entitled to post reasonable questions and pertinent statements. The method to make me stop is to post truth, facts, evidence and proof.

Simple, right?

bi

I already asked you to leave this thread due to your disruptions. You came back in and Turion continued the conversation with you so feel free to post until you are asked to leave by him.

I have seen you have not done what Turion has recommended. That's up to you, but if you don't replicate exactly without putting your own spin on things, then what do you expect? You don't have to answer - I'm just saying.



You're always free to start your own thread to critique the work here without getting in the way of progress of filling up the thread with a bunch of posts that people have to filter out in order to get to the message.
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Aaron Murakami

  #4156  
Old 01-28-2019, 10:14 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Sorry.

Sorry Aaron,but you donít even understand RTE.
John.
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  #4157  
Old 01-29-2019, 07:36 AM
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increase in capacity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamnuts View Post
Sorry Aaron,but you don’t even understand RTE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamnuts View Post
John.

I told you a battery can gain in capacity on each charge cycle until it gets to a plateau and you disputed that. My hands on experience proving that true is infinitely more valuable than your claims of failure. You've already disqualified yourself as knowing anything about the nature of batteries, especially if you've never experienced an increase in the batteries capacity with each successive discharge/charge cycle. This is the CONTEXT I am writing about. Saying a battery loses 5% every time it is charged is like saying a gas tank loses 5% every time it gets filled up - perhaps English is not your native language.

Charging a battery with spikes - you're lucky if you can measure 20% leaving the coil on a SG for example, yet what do you get out of the battery? 80-85% at minimum with a decent build or 90-95% with an excellent build - that is compared to what left the input battery and not compared to what is measured leaving the output of the SG. If I compared it to what is measured leaving the SG in spikes, I could claim the round trip efficiency is 400%. You would argue that without ever asking if it is a comparison to what left the input battery of the SG or what left the output of the SG.

"
I find it rather sad that quite a few guys are getting egged on to spend
their hard earned,and time, building inefficient,inappropriate systems
and ruining batteries to boot."

Is that your opinion of what has been shared and taught in this discussion thread?

This image shows REAL results that countless people have achieved with charging lead acid batteries - rejuvenating old batteries and having an increase in capacity on each charge cycle - same thing with new batteries to a lesser degree. Putting a 2A12 on a Harbor Freight 35Ah battery for one charge cycle will allow it to discharge about 39Ah on the very next cycle - increase in capacity whether you like it or not.


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  #4158  
Old 01-29-2019, 10:28 AM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Graph.

chart_lead1.jpg
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  #4159  
Old 01-29-2019, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axxelxavier View Post
Just a quick update.
As I told you, my test now it's using a booster, set on 14,7 volts on the output.
Total time running, so far, is 6 hours, 43 min, and battery 3 seems to be charged faster, BUT, C20 rate are exceeded, because current draw on the input of the booster (which was in the beginning at 2 amps) now is on 2,62 Amp, and it's increasing (differential voltage on the input = 11,47 volts). On the output of the DC booster (going to the inverter), current draw is 1,74 amp.
Not sure what to do, though. I think I am going to let the system to work for 2 more hours, and I am going to measure the current draw before stop it. If it will exceed 4 Amp, I think I am going to shut down my test. I cannot afford to kill a good battery...
Now I am using a 150 watt, like the first image in the attachment, with no current limit.
I have also a bigger one (1200 watt - second image in the attachment) which have an option to limit current... this should be better?
Best regards,
Teodor
Connect the second boost convertor to battery 3, Bat 3 pos to boost2 in pos, bat 3 neg to boost2 in neg, boost2 out pos to bat 2 pos (top positive of series connected batteries 1 and 2). Slowly adjust the boost2 output to slow down the drain on the series batteries by recirculating current going to bat 3. At one point you can come to a balance where the voltages stay very steady for a long time.
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  #4160  
Old 01-29-2019, 06:44 PM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hherby View Post
Connect the second boost convertor to battery 3, Bat 3 pos to boost2 in pos, bat 3 neg to boost2 in neg, boost2 out pos to bat 2 pos (top positive of series connected batteries 1 and 2). Slowly adjust the boost2 output to slow down the drain on the series batteries by recirculating current going to bat 3. At one point you can come to a balance where the voltages stay very steady for a long time.
@hherby, thank you for your reply. I've done the modification to my setup, and now I'm watching the numbers...
L.E. Booster 2 is quite hot... I hope it will resist to this treatment... :-)
Best regards,
Teodor
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File Type: jpg 20190129_203709.jpg (170.4 KB, 29 views)
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Last edited by axxelxavier; 01-29-2019 at 06:46 PM.
  #4161  
Old 01-29-2019, 08:30 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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In the light.

In the light of overwhelming evidence from Aaron Iíll admit defeat on my
take on LA battery performance.
John.
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  #4162  
Old 01-29-2019, 10:55 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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I'd like to replicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by axxelxavier View Post
Just a quick update.
As I told you, my test now it's using a booster, set on 14,7 volts on the output.
Total time running, so far, is 6 hours, 43 min, and battery 3 seems to be charged faster, BUT, C20 rate are exceeded, because current draw on the input of the booster (which was in the beginning at 2 amps) now is on 2,62 Amp, and it's increasing (differential voltage on the input = 11,47 volts). On the output of the DC booster (going to the inverter), current draw is 1,74 amp.
Not sure what to do, though. I think I am going to let the system to work for 2 more hours, and I am going to measure the current draw before stop it. If it will exceed 4 Amp, I think I am going to shut down my test. I cannot afford to kill a good battery...
Now I am using a 150 watt, like the first image in the attachment, with no current limit.
I have also a bigger one (1200 watt - second image in the attachment) which have an option to limit current... this should be better?
Best regards,
Teodor
Hi Teodor,

Did you get more data? Also, please post or refer to a circuit diagram. I am considering doing the test here.

Thanks,

bi
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  #4163  
Old 01-29-2019, 11:25 PM
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topping charge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamnuts View Post
chart_lead1.jpg
It's very simple - I agree that chart is accurate, but only shows what happens when a topping charge is not attained. Why limit your possibilities to only that, which has been thoroughly conditioned into the mass mindset? That doesn't apply to what I told you, however. Again, any conventional charger pushing batteries to 13.8-14.8 will have a decline in capacity over time because on each charge cycle, there is still sulfation left on the plates.

That is the entire point to what I was telling you.

Here is the pdf with the chart for anyone to see - there is a lot of good info in there on lead acid charging chemistry: http://freesolarsecrets.com/solarsecrets.pdf

This is the most important chart ever made for lead acid battery science, in my opinion.





You must charge the battery until you get the voltage dip transition from P to R. When you do, you have reversed the chemistry to like-new condition. The dip is a drop in impedance as I said, the final layers of sulfation dissolved into the solution. If you do this on every charge cycle, the battery life cycle is theoretically INFINITE. If you have a solar setup with battery backup, the batteries can outlast the solar panels, which are expected to last 20-25 years, if the batteries were able to get pushed to the topping charge.

That chart is 100 years old - that is how long this has been known but the lead acid battery industry has quietly ignored this because they're in the business of selling batteries.

About 1-2 years ago, I met with a Linear Technology rep and we were talking about batteries. He used to be in the nicad industry and he said that is very well known that if you charge nicads without experiencing the dip, you will wind up damaging the batteries - yet, nobody seems to know this is exactly what lead acid batteries need as well.

If the batteries are AMG or gel cells, then 14.6-14.8 is the limit or you will dry them out - they also display the same voltage drop when they are truly topped out.


John, it would behoove you to understand this because if you failed in achieving results experimenting with the methods Bedini made popular, then you weren't applying all the information. I like John Koorn's rule of thumb if I recall it correctly - with a Bedini type system, 1 watt per 1 Ah is about what you need to do it right. So a single coil SG with 7-8 power windings will be roughly a 20-25 watt machine so is only good for getting a battery that is 20-25 Ah pushed to 15.1-15.3 volts.



I've seen the results go up in a very non-linear fashion. With Bedini's 10-coiler, that would be around a 200 watt machine - however, it could fully charge a 1200 Ah cell phone tower battery bank being run on an identical 1200 Ah battery bank. Each battery in the string was 2 volts 1200 Ah as far as what I can recall. And, when the output bank was charged, Peter discharged that output bank and got 10 times more than what left the input battery. That is a COP of 10.0 - that is some serious "overunity", but most people can't afford those banks. I wouldn't want them because they're a pain to handle. The reason is because of the ultra-low impedance on a bank that big. With the radiant impulses, any resistance dissipates it so with a large battery bank like that, it sucks it up like a vacuum. The round trip efficiency is irrelevant with these methods because what you get out of the battery is related, but is absolutely NOT directly proportional to what went in into the battery. The chemistry converts that radiant into charge separation and the amount of charge separation is clearly INDEPENDENT of the amount of electricity that went into the battery because it is an open system. The coils on the SG are open and the battery is also part of the open system. I don't know if I agree exactly with all the subtle nuances of Bearden's Negative Resistor explanation of the batteries being charged in this method, but the output battery definitely is put into a negative resistor mode.



Every time you have an impulse (sharp gradient), you are polarizing the aether at the coordinates in space where the terminals are, dipole or each bit of chemical charge separation. The aether then polarizes and condenses and moves into the circuit at those points meaning with the impulses, you are causing those points to become locations where environmental source potential enters the system. That polarized aether is the emf (electromotive force), which moves from positive to neutral and that causes electrons from the circuit to start moving in the opposite direction, which is the source of current - the copper wire, not magical charge that people think is stored in the battery.



This is why it is important to use as big of batteries as you can and is why most people have never seen anything unusual with small batteries. Dave here has mentioned big batteries many times and this is one of the main reason why - the lower the impedance, the more the battery chemistry will convert radiant to charge separation. You don't need 1200 Ah batteries.


I use 35Ah AMGs all the time for just testing things out and getting a feel for what I'm doing in my experiments. 100Ah at minimum is more time-worthy if you're looking for something interesting but I like my T-105s the best - those are 6v 225Ah batteries.
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Last edited by Aaron; 01-29-2019 at 11:54 PM.
  #4164  
Old 01-30-2019, 07:28 AM
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Aaron Aaron is offline
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Bedini's chargers/rejuvenators

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Aaron,
With John's passing, is anyone manufacturing battery chargers based on his tech. I mean besides "you know who"?
Short answer: Tom & Eric are making some solar charge controllers available and I've been testing some prototypes based on John's circuits that I'm putting into production soon.

Long answer: see below...

Tom & Eric I think have a couple solar charge controllers. Those are straight linear current regulator chargers so are not the best for rejuvenating old batteries but are good for keeping good batteries in good condition.

Soon, I'll be putting a 5 amp 12 volt solar charge controller back into production - actually, John only made one of those for me for to test, but it will be produced instead of the 3 amp 12v one, which was very popular. It is also a linear current regulator circuit.

If you get a constant current constant voltage adjustable dc power supply - you can set it to charge up to 15.1-15.3 for flooded cell batteries - just short the leads and adjust how much current you want it to max out at and when hooking it to a battery, it will for the most part act just the same. Just with the solar charge controllers, they can always receive solar input easily.

I've been testing one of John's prototypes that is more efficient than the older charge controllers (Solar Trackers) - still linear current regulator circuit, but more efficient. He considered it to be the best one he ever designed but never had a chance to put it into production. I'm waiting for some of the components so I can build a few more prototypes for testing. This one will obsolete all linear current chargers that he produced in the past.

Any of these solar circuits can of course be operated with a power supply instead of panels - like the one described above to mimic a solar panel for testing.

For rejuvenation of older batteries, the only charger John came out with that did that with inductive discharges (spikes) was the original Generation 1 - 2A12 - 2 amp 12 volt. It was short lived because the batteries charged or rejuvenated that way long enough didn't like to get charged with normal straight current chargers anymore. All 2A12 models after that went to cap discharge.

The last model (5th generation) 2A12 that was released was the EX or Extreme version, which was the best. It was actually identical to the 3rd generation model. The 4th generation was less aggressive and discharged a cap about half as fast - still excellent but the 5th generation was a reintroduction of the 3rd generation because it was stronger. Magically, after John died, the pic chip source code for that model disappeared. I might just put the 4th generation one back into production - still an excellent unit and nothing else touched it for what it was compared to anything on the market.

I have also been experimenting with some of the old Tesla Switch Solar Amplifier circuits prototypes. I may put those back into production as well and they are also excellent rejuvenators. The charged the caps in parallel and discharged in series.

First one I'll put back into production will be the S5A12 solar charge controller. Second will be either the 2A12 Generation 4 model or the Tesla Switch Solar Amplifier or the linear current one that is the most efficient one that John never put into production. Anyway, the 2nd one to be put in production will be one of those 3 - haven't decided yet.

Other than these future plans, nobody is producing anything worth mentioning in my opinion.
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Aaron Murakami


Last edited by Aaron; 01-30-2019 at 07:34 AM.
  #4165  
Old 01-30-2019, 01:58 PM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Hi Teodor,
Did you get more data? Also, please post or refer to a circuit diagram. I am considering doing the test here. Thanks,
bi
@Bi,
I have data only for the first run of the 3BGS setup with booster, which last only 11,27 hours, until differential voltage drop below inverter low voltage limit (9,6 volt).
Second run is not complete, and I added also a second booster, for recovering some energy in the primaries. The results looks so far promising, but, I believe now the load it's too big for the system, so I may drop one led bulb, to see if I can balance the system.
In attachments, you will find also the schematics with one booster and with two boosters, I hope they are clear enough.
Best regards,
Teodor.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 01.jpg (187.4 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg 20190130_155446.jpg (301.7 KB, 45 views)
File Type: jpg 20190130_154618.jpg (288.4 KB, 46 views)
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  #4166  
Old 01-30-2019, 02:46 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Thanks

Thanks, I can work with those diagrams.

Was the 2.070 Amperes in the baseline (test without boost converter) measured at the input to the inverter?

Regards,

bi
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  #4167  
Old 01-30-2019, 03:29 PM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
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@Bi,
Yes, this value was on my first setup, at the input on the inverter, without booster, using only a 300 watt inverter (200 mA idle current draw) and 3 LED bulbs as load (two 7 watt Led bulb + one 8 watt led bulb).
With booster set on 14,7 volts on the output (inverter), current draw raised quite fast to almost 2,8 Amp, as you can see in my latest diagram.
Now, I've removed from load one led bulb (7 watt), so current draw now fit in C20 discharge rate, and I have also hooked the second booster back to primaries.
I am just curious to see how much will last this setup.
L.E. Just a quick update. I've notice something interesting: yesterday I was using for a time the second booster, and today, after almost 18 resting hours, batteries showed almost the same voltage as before rest...
In my previous setups, without the second booster, the voltages from all three batteries has changed significantly after a long resting - both bats from primaries gain some volts, and the charged batteries usually lose some volts....
Best regards,
Teodor
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Last edited by axxelxavier; 01-30-2019 at 05:28 PM.
  #4168  
Old 01-30-2019, 07:33 PM
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hherby hherby is offline
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Booster 2 connection

Quote:
Originally Posted by axxelxavier View Post
@Bi,
I have data only for the first run of the 3BGS setup with booster, which last only 11,27 hours, until differential voltage drop below inverter low voltage limit (9,6 volt).
Second run is not complete, and I added also a second booster, for recovering some energy in the primaries. The results looks so far promising, but, I believe now the load it's too big for the system, so I may drop one led bulb, to see if I can balance the system.
In attachments, you will find also the schematics with one booster and with two boosters, I hope they are clear enough.
Best regards,
Teodor.
Teodor,
The output of booster 2 should be connected to the + of battery 1 according to your diagram. You show it connected between battery 2 and battery 1
Cheers,
Alex
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  #4169  
Old 01-30-2019, 08:18 PM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hherby View Post
Teodor,
The output of booster 2 should be connected to the + of battery 1 according to your diagram. You show it connected between battery 2 and battery 1
Cheers,
Alex
@Alex, thank you for your reply.
You are right, I've notice a significant fall from battery 1, so I will make the modification tomorrow evening, when i will run again my setup.
This is for me the most obvious proof that booster 2 mod is working, because even now, batt 2 and 3 are in equilibrium, and batt 1 which is not helped by booster 2, drops slowly voltage.
Best regards,
Teodor.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 02.jpg (243.2 KB, 13 views)
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  #4170  
Old 01-31-2019, 11:55 AM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Point.

A point I was trying to get across was RTE.
I did this test with lithium ion because it is fairly accurate.
I used 1780 mah from my battery. I then charged my battery with
my IMAX B6. This showed me that it needed 2000 mah. to recharge.
This means that the efficiency was 89%.
100% was coming from the wall and I got back 89% of that from my
battery.
Aaron couldnít seem to grasp this.
From what I get from various sources is that, for lead acid, it is sort of
the 90% mark.
The IMAX manual says it is difficult to determine full charge with la, thatís
why I used li ion.
According to me this is a factor in 3BGS.
John.
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