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  #4081  
Old 07-30-2018, 12:28 AM
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altrez altrez is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Hi,

It's been years since I've looked. Back then there were numerous tutorials, white papers, etc which were very good. Not so today. This one isn't too bad.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...xVLfcnptIj07JJ

This one is a bit more advanced but looks good. Haven't read it yet. Maybe tonight. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...E6sCoXWgPm-i63

Regards,

bi

Thank you!

-Altrez
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  #4082  
Old 07-30-2018, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
https://www.amazon.com/Remington-Ind...ZB9AB1NMN0EG5V

This is 200 Deg C wire. This will hold up better under a work load.

Matt
Thanks Matt I will order some this week.

-Altrez
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  #4083  
Old 07-30-2018, 03:00 PM
liber63 liber63 is offline
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Hi Matt
I don't understand why people don't jump all over around you asking you questions on the last video you posted. I guess they wait until the end of the series or most are away for vacations. Anyway I am going to try the same you do now, as there is not enough space on the MY1016 to wire it as gen. Your version must be a lot easier than Dave's gen. I have 3.14x2.9 spool with 0.59inch core. Do you think it's ok? It's close to your spool. Actually I ve ordered around 30 from ebay and waited like 1 and a half month to arrive here. Also any link for your magnets or similar in Amazon, as ebay takes ages to arrive.
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  #4084  
Old 07-30-2018, 03:36 PM
thaelin thaelin is offline
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@Liber
I gave up on trying to get good spools so started making my own. A large hole cutter and thin wall PVC and epoxy it together. Much more rigid. The last group of them would warp and were brittle so very easy to break. Not one has survived to date.

@Matt
Many thanks for coming back and having another go of it. It's not in vain.

thay

Quote:
Originally Posted by liber63 View Post
Hi Matt
I don't understand why people don't jump all over around you asking you questions on the last video you posted. I guess they wait until the end of the series or most are away for vacations. Anyway I am going to try the same you do now, as there is not enough space on the MY1016 to wire it as gen. Your version must be a lot easier than Dave's gen. I have 3.14x2.9 spool with 0.59inch core. Do you think it's ok? It's close to your spool. Actually I ve ordered around 30 from ebay and waited like 1 and a half month to arrive here. Also any link for your magnets or similar in Amazon, as ebay takes ages to arrive.
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  #4085  
Old 07-30-2018, 04:23 PM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Originally Posted by liber63 View Post
Hi Matt
I don't understand why people don't jump all over around you asking you questions on the last video you posted. I guess they wait until the end of the series or most are away for vacations. Anyway I am going to try the same you do now, as there is not enough space on the MY1016 to wire it as gen. Your version must be a lot easier than Dave's gen. I have 3.14x2.9 spool with 0.59inch core. Do you think it's ok? It's close to your spool. Actually I ve ordered around 30 from ebay and waited like 1 and a half month to arrive here. Also any link for your magnets or similar in Amazon, as ebay takes ages to arrive.

Most people won't even start investing till they see results then they want and expect you to hang around holding there hand so they can run off and take credit for it.

I have already released the most important thing and thats how to tune the coils. The make of the rotor and coils is really unimportant as long as it can hold up. The smaller the rotor the faster the motor has to be.

Safety too. High voltage, High speeds are both ready to knock you down. JUst remember that.

You can probably make those coils work, just go back and find the instructions.

For cheap wire Google "BAE wire Ebay". They are in Florida and also have website. You can call them... they have what you need even if its not in the store. 11lbs spool of 24 awg magnetic wire. Minimum. They charge about $80 plus shipping. YOU HAVE TO CALL THEM..

Matt
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  #4086  
Old 07-30-2018, 05:42 PM
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Turion Turion is offline
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Information Super Highway??????

liber63,
My generator is based on the ORIGINAL two coil generator Matt built. What he is building right now very closely resembles the original. He still has a video of THAT machine running with the volts and amps in and out shown on the video. It is what got me all excited and started me working on the big generator. That was the original "proof" that this would work. It sped up under load as well.

Yes, what Matt is building is MUCH simpler than my generator. What you will discover is that you can build a two coil generator that will run EXTREMELY WELL with the MY1016 rewound like Matt showed and PROVE a COP>1. But if you want a BIGGER machine with MORE COILS that really generates POWER, the amp draw of the motor turning rotor magnets past all those iron cores will start to be too much for the little motor without SOME kind of special modification of either the circuit to run the thing or the physical machine. You MUST eliminate that magnetic cogging somehow, ESPECIALLY on start up, and there is more than ONE way to skin that cat. I know of three.

Matt designed a circuit for me to run my machine as a MOTOR until I got it up to speed. It had a big flywheel on it. Once it was up to speed, the magnetic cogging still existed, but it wasn't so bad, and the flywheel effect helped with a lot of it. Then I flipped a couple switches and suddenly it was a generator. The razor scooter motor was electrically disconnected during the phase when the generator was a motor. That's the SECOND way of dealing with the magnetic cogging. My generator video shows the first. There is also a third method that is electronic, but more complicated.

What Matt is building will demonstrate that everything we have said is true. And it will show a COP>1. If you want that "1" to be much higher, you are on your own. I've shown a generator that will get you there. I've just talked about a SECOND way to get a generator that will work to get you there, although I didn't show the circuit. Basically you run the generator like a Bedini energizer until you are up to speed, and THAT circuit is all over the place. You have all the info you need to make working systems that put out 2,000 watts. What hasn't been given is "proof" to satisfy the whiners. And Matt is about to provide that.

Like I said, what will be the excuse then?
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  #4087  
Old 07-30-2018, 05:44 PM
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Turion Turion is offline
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Info

liber63,
My generator is based on the ORIGINAL two coil generator Matt built. What he is building right now very closely resembles the original. He still has a video of THAT machine running with the volts and amps in and out shown on the video. It is what got me all excited and started me working on the big generator. That was the original "proof" that this would work. It sped up under load as well.

Yes, what Matt is building is MUCH simpler than my generator. What you will discover is that you can build a two coil generator that will run EXTREMELY WELL with the MY1016 rewound like Matt showed and PROVE a COP>1. But if you want a BIGGER machine with MORE COILS that really generates POWER, the amp draw of the motor turning rotor magnets past all those iron cores will start to be too much for the little motor without SOME kind of special modification of either the circuit to run the thing or the physical machine. You MUST eliminate that magnetic cogging somehow, ESPECIALLY on start up, and there is more than ONE way to skin that cat. I know of three.

Matt designed a circuit for me to run my machine as a MOTOR until I got it up to speed. It had a big flywheel on it. Once it was up to speed, the magnetic cogging still existed, but it wasn't so bad, and the flywheel effect helped with a lot of it. Then I flipped a couple switches and suddenly it was a generator. The razor scooter motor was electrically disconnected during the phase when the generator was a motor. That's the SECOND way of dealing with the magnetic cogging. My generator video shows the first. There is also a third method that is electronic, but more complicated.

What Matt is building will demonstrate that everything we have said is true. And it will show a COP>1. If you want that "1" to be much higher, you are on your own. I've shown a generator that will get you there. I've just talked about a SECOND way to get a generator that will work to get you there, although I didn't show the circuit. Basically you run the generator like a Bedini energizer until you are up to speed, and THAT circuit is all over the place. You have all the info you need to make working systems that put out 2,000 watts. What hasn't been given is "proof" to satisfy the whiners. And Matt is about to provide that.

Like I said, what will be the excuse then?
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  #4088  
Old 07-30-2018, 08:23 PM
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Is the bearing the RPM limiting factor?
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  #4089  
Old 07-30-2018, 09:15 PM
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Is the bearing the RPM limiting factor?
For what the Generator?
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  #4090  
Old 07-30-2018, 09:47 PM
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The motor or the generator.

I just wondered what limited the speed.

So is this a two phase generator?
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  #4091  
Old 07-30-2018, 11:55 PM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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I don't know exactly what would limit it, it just goes so fast thats it. The motor will go faster if you feed it a higher voltage, but the brushes will burn up unless you use 36 or 48 volt brush set from MY1020 brush set. I have 1016 that takes 36 volt.
The generators typically only go as fast as the motor until you start pulling current. Then the whole system speed up. This happens until the current is peaked and the voltage start to drop. Few times I have had them running I can't say I tried to go past that.
Now initially you have to short the coils to find how much they accelerate. So under dead short it speeds up to the maximum.
You can look up Thane Heinz work and see he runs coils that 100' of ohms of resistance on the windings and near doubles the speed of the mover.

I don't use his model per say I look at Bill Muller. His dynamo accelerated under load and there is really good movie although a copy of an old movie. He puts the coil to rotor and 300 watts show up but the machine does not slow down. His core material was not iron and because of that he had the opportunity to use lower ohms in his windings which allows for significant current to be produced, with moderate voltage.

The coils going on this generator will mostly produce voltage, but they will give a starting point. Doesn't take much current to stack up.

Matt
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  #4092  
Old 07-31-2018, 06:10 AM
ron48 ron48 is offline
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Hi matt and dave am not a builder but have great respect for you both. Thought you would like to know tinman just put a video on YouTube about a so called replication of your motor. Thank you both for what you have shared. If looking tinmanpower.
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Last edited by ron48; 07-31-2018 at 06:29 AM.
  #4093  
Old 07-31-2018, 07:24 AM
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Here is his build

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI2wxBBWPyY

He is adding another set of brushes. Magnets? Unless he figures out a way to reduce the size of the ones he has and add two more, it isn’t a real replication of Matt’s motor.
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Last edited by Turion; 07-31-2018 at 04:56 PM.
  #4094  
Old 07-31-2018, 08:06 AM
liber63 liber63 is offline
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Dave, it will be a starting point to learn and show the result to a friend much sooner than the bigger gen that follows. I am good enough with what you showed already about cogging and prefer the non electronic system. Cop>1 has been proved with your setups many times to me, all these years, that's one reason I trust you and stay around. Tomorrow I will post a video with the one to one battery setup. I also admire your perseverance and the fact that you share. Enough with the love talk for now.

Matt, thanks for warning me for the safety part. In my enthusiasm I tend to forget these things!! I certainly have made notes of the how to tune the coils.

Thay, thanks, most likely I will make my own spools.
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  #4095  
Old 07-31-2018, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ron48 View Post
Hi matt and dave am not a builder but have great respect for you both. Thought you would like to know tinman just put a video on YouTube about a so called replication of your motor. Thank you both for what you have shared. If looking tinmanpower.
I think he just wound it with 2 magnets and a normal stator. He is probably not correct on the induction but the rest works fine.

They are so hard to please, no mention of the fact the current is stable and the motor is fast as hell. No speed measurements at all, but you could here it when he had it tuned for the power supply to climb, the rpms went up. LOL. No mention though, that power is not worth anything. Just a little blip on the screen. LOL

And another 100 rpms...

Matt
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  #4096  
Old 07-31-2018, 06:23 PM
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altrez altrez is offline
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I am about to have a comeapart getting this motor screw off the shaft. I also can not get the plate off. Is a large hammer or cutting torch ok to use?



-Altrez
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  #4097  
Old 07-31-2018, 06:45 PM
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I had the same problem - I managed to remove just a single screw normally, because they are a kind a soft alloy made. For the rest, I just used a 4 mm drill, and a electric screwdriver, to remove gently only the head of the screw. But you have to be a little bit careful, try to perforate the head of the screw in center, so the plate of the motor remain intact.
Worked like a charm.
Tomorrow i will remove all the wire, and to prepare my motor for rewinding, but first, I will watch again all the videos.
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Last edited by axxelxavier; 07-31-2018 at 06:56 PM. Reason: add info
  #4098  
Old 07-31-2018, 06:45 PM
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Do you mean the nut on the shaft? Remember it is REVERSE threads. And what plate? Can you post a picture?
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  #4099  
Old 07-31-2018, 07:19 PM
axxelxavier axxelxavier is offline
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@Everybody,
I am trying to make a battery swapper for 2 batts setup with arduino, did anybody find a way to solve the voltage threshold issue? So, when the first battery reach the lower level voltage, arduino should switch to second battery, and stay there until he reach also the low voltage, and so on.
I am a complete beginner in programming, but even so, I have learned a lot in past 2 weeks, and after some experiments with N channel Mosfet as switch (VERY INTERESTING, low current draw, but unfortunately, with a BIG issue - non-isolation), now I'm working with relays.
For my setup, I'm using 2 custom voltage divisors, an Arduino Nano, 4 relays board with optocoupler isolation, all powered by 4 x 18650 Li-Ion and a buck converter, to step down voltage to 5 volts. All setup will be soon wired up on a single board.
So far I manage to switch battery at low voltage, but when the load is removed and the battery regain voltage, very quick the setup stay in a kind of perpetual loop On-Off.
Can anybody help me on this?
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  #4100  
Old 07-31-2018, 07:26 PM
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altrez altrez is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Do you mean the nut on the shaft? Remember it is REVERSE threads. And what plate? Can you post a picture?
I did not know that it was a reverse thread. The four screws on the front cover.

Thank you,

-Altrez
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  #4101  
Old 07-31-2018, 07:50 PM
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Iíve taken apart over 30 of those motors and never had a problem with the screws, so thatís a new one on me. Iíd say spray them with WD-40 and let them sit a while. If that doesnít work you will have to drill them out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by altrez View Post
I did not know that it was a reverse thread. The four screws on the front cover.

Thank you,

-Altrez
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  #4102  
Old 07-31-2018, 08:26 PM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Originally Posted by axxelxavier View Post
@Everybody,
I am trying to make a battery swapper for 2 batts setup with arduino, did anybody find a way to solve the voltage threshold issue? So, when the first battery reach the lower level voltage, arduino should switch to second battery, and stay there until he reach also the low voltage, and so on.
I am a complete beginner in programming, but even so, I have learned a lot in past 2 weeks, and after some experiments with N channel Mosfet as switch (VERY INTERESTING, low current draw, but unfortunately, with a BIG issue - non-isolation), now I'm working with relays.
For my setup, I'm using 2 custom voltage divisors, an Arduino Nano, 4 relays board with optocoupler isolation, all powered by 4 x 18650 Li-Ion and a buck converter, to step down voltage to 5 volts. All setup will be soon wired up on a single board.
So far I manage to switch battery at low voltage, but when the load is removed and the battery regain voltage, very quick the setup stay in a kind of perpetual loop On-Off.
Can anybody help me on this?
Post the schematic and code, I'll see what I can.

Matt
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  #4103  
Old 07-31-2018, 09:47 PM
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citfta citfta is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axxelxavier View Post
@Everybody,
I am trying to make a battery swapper for 2 batts setup with arduino, did anybody find a way to solve the voltage threshold issue? So, when the first battery reach the lower level voltage, arduino should switch to second battery, and stay there until he reach also the low voltage, and so on.
I am a complete beginner in programming, but even so, I have learned a lot in past 2 weeks, and after some experiments with N channel Mosfet as switch (VERY INTERESTING, low current draw, but unfortunately, with a BIG issue - non-isolation), now I'm working with relays.
For my setup, I'm using 2 custom voltage divisors, an Arduino Nano, 4 relays board with optocoupler isolation, all powered by 4 x 18650 Li-Ion and a buck converter, to step down voltage to 5 volts. All setup will be soon wired up on a single board.
So far I manage to switch battery at low voltage, but when the load is removed and the battery regain voltage, very quick the setup stay in a kind of perpetual loop On-Off.
Can anybody help me on this?
Matt is probably a better programmer than I am on arduino but I do have a suggestion while you are waiting for his input.

What you basically need to do is have two loops. One for each battery. Only one loop should be running at any one time. As a loop runs it needs to read the battery voltage like you apparently have it doing correctly. When the battery reaches the low voltage you have set you need that to signal the program to jump to the loop for the other battery. Then it should stay there until that battery reaches it's low voltage target which will then trigger the program to jump back to the first loop and first battery.

I hope this gives you enough info to get it working. I am much more familiar with programming the picaxe chips.

Good luck,
Carroll
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  #4104  
Old 07-31-2018, 09:47 PM
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THis is the test's by tinman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRhVpAIxgEc&t=2s

Not sure why but he likes to leave things out and at the same time deem it a failure, or not at all any improvement. But thats how he is, he does do good testing for the most part.
One thing to notice is as his power supply rises the motor speed up, so even if the power useless it seems to have effect on the motor.

Cheers
Matt
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  #4105  
Old 07-31-2018, 11:58 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Same conclusions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
THis is the test's by tinman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRhVpAIxgEc&t=2s

Not sure why but he likes to leave things out and at the same time deem it a failure, or not at all any improvement. But thats how he is, he does do good testing for the most part.
One thing to notice is as his power supply rises the motor speed up, so even if the power useless it seems to have effect on the motor.

Cheers
Matt
Thanks for posting link to the video. Tinman's conclusions were the same as what I stated after watching gotuluc's video. Once the brushes were rotated, the traces looked remarkably similar between the two tests. No over-unity as wantomake and Turion claim it shows.

The noticed speed increase as he rotates the brushes is due to what is commonly called field weakening or the reduction of net flux being cut by the armature coils. This also reduces the torque per amp factor which translates into the noticeable increase in current from the supply.

Regards,

bi
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  #4106  
Old 08-01-2018, 12:30 AM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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I can only see responses from people on the ignore list prior to login.

No one has claimed overunity to my knowledge. I have not seen this please point it out. The motor at the right tuning point discharges current back to source. You can call it what ever you want the current at this point in time.

You have no experience with this motor. You have no experience with anything that slightly different from conventional. You did not model this motor in FEM nor did you put it on a dyno at look at real results.

When you build it and you get your hands on it and prove what your saying is the truth then I will take it into account. Until then you are not right and you have nothing and no credentials to base what your saying on. And I am not going to recind anything I have had to say.

So here is an example, What is the returned voltage based on either scope shot? You say there is small amount of currents what is the return voltage?
If you don't want to invest and build a project then go ask Tinman ask anybody, but don't come in here and say you know whats happening when you don't have a motor to look at. When you probably don't have the tools to look at it.

Even Tinman had to leave results out, he always does. He has to do that because is ashamed of failed research. You have to make up things you call fact. You have to do this to sound like you know what your talking about. But any idiot can figure out you lying to everyone. "A boost converter provides the pulse", "Chinese cheap as PWM is very efficient and integrates a buck converters ", Matt's a liar for stating the obvious.

Just go away, or try. Its pretty simple. You wanna prove anything wrong just prove it.

Thats the last answer you get from me.

Matt
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  #4107  
Old 08-01-2018, 01:22 AM
bistander bistander is online now
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Reply to Matt

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I can only see responses from people on the ignore list prior to login.

No one has claimed overunity to my knowledge. I have not seen this please point it out.
See post #4022 where I quoted both wantomake and Turion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
The motor at the right tuning point discharges current back to source. You can call it what ever you want the current at this point in time.

You have no experience with this motor. You have no experience with anything that slightly different from conventional. You did not model this motor in FEM nor did you put it on a dyno at look at real results.
I have had years of experience with motors and generators including many hours in the dynamometer lab likely adding up much more than you. I've witnessed first hand the effects shown on these tests of your modified motor. No, never with the exact machine you refer to, but with similar machines exhibiting similar behavior, mostly in failure mode. Normal motors aren't built with open-circuit armatures for good reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
When you build it and you get your hands on it and prove what your saying is the truth then I will take it into account. Until then you are not right and you have nothing and no credentials to base what your saying on. And I am not going to recind anything I have had to say.
The facts and the truth are there regardless of what I build or test. I am right. It is your right not to believe, but your opinion of me and insults and cursing don't change the facts or the truth. I don't expect you to recind anything. Your language towards me reflects much more on your character than mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
So here is an example, What is the returned voltage based on either scope shot? You say there is small amount of currents what is the return voltage?
The product of the negative current and the voltage above the power supply voltage is generated by the motor during that period. The machine is running as a generator for this short time converting mechanical energy in the rotating mass of the rotor into electrical energy directed back to what was the source. On the videos, that source was a power supply and was unable to handle returned power very well. If that source was a battery, it would charge a small amount with the returned power. But the net result is a drain from the source into the motor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post

If you don't want to invest and build a project then go ask Tinman ask anybody, but don't come in here and say you know whats happening when you don't have a motor to look at. When you probably don't have the tools to look at it.

Even Tinman had to leave results out, he always does. He has to do that because is ashamed of failed research. You have to make up things you call fact. You have to do this to sound like you know what your talking about. But any idiot can figure out you lying to everyone. "A boost converter provides the pulse", "Chinese cheap as PWM is very efficient and integrates a buck converters ", Matt's a liar for stating the obvious.
I don't know what you're talking about. What did Tinman leave out? Aside from the time you tricked me with a question, I've told no lies here. And I have said you are mistaken or wrong on a number of occasions, but don't call you a liar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
Just go away, or try. Its pretty simple. You wanna prove anything wrong just prove it.

Thats the last answer you get from me.

Matt
Regards,

bi
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  #4108  
Old 08-01-2018, 02:04 AM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Yep all talk, no proof....No physical proof, no text book reference no credentials, no film, no nothing. Just made up lies to clutter the thread. Your dime a dozen, and everyone see's it.

Post# 4047 clearly said MATT is lying, but has since been changed. This is typical and I just got telling David, "Next he'll play the victim". My insulting language...LOL All of you must have one game plan. I know its shameful but your gonna have to go back to BRO MIKEY and get some advice, he's the best disruptor there ever was.

Soon you'll realize how bad you failed.
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ADD BROMIKEY TO YOUR IGNORE LIST He is a saboteur bent on the systematic distraction of every good topic on this forum and since he has been here most working threads have shut down. He is the enemy. If you have blocked him already add this to your signature and encourage others to block him as well. His onslaught of rambling in large text and his constant attempts to misinform at the excuse of being stupid should no longer be tolerated.

USER CP/Ignore list.

Last edited by Matthew Jones; 08-01-2018 at 02:34 AM.
  #4109  
Old 08-01-2018, 02:26 AM
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altrez altrez is offline
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Posts: 555
I cant speak on using a power supply to run theses tests however I can say that I am going to run theses tests to a battery and will post the results.

I do not like videos that use a power supply because battery's behave differently. My tests are coming soon using the Matt motor and a battery. Lets see what happens in that setup!



-Altrez
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  #4110  
Old 08-01-2018, 02:47 AM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Posts: 2,741
I burned my power supply up running them, LOL.

The important thing to learn from seeing this, is the effect. If the effect can be modified then its real. And sure doesn't hurt anything in my ballpark that when the voltage went up in the power supply the motor went faster, even though Tinman and Gotoluc didn't include that in there video's and the Bisexual wants to come up with some excuse. Regardless of what anyone wants to call it its a good thing. If it can be modified to work better its starts to get into what we want, a little bit more for a little bit less. I never said everything was perfect but it leaves room to get better.

I am really grateful for those are trying, I apologize I am continuously targeted by these people who pretend to know it all and want you to ignore what we find. I am going to do my best to get all out this time. 3 years we have been trying when we have time and 3 years we've been asked not to. Not this time. Stay Tuned!!

Matt
__________________
ADD BROMIKEY TO YOUR IGNORE LIST He is a saboteur bent on the systematic distraction of every good topic on this forum and since he has been here most working threads have shut down. He is the enemy. If you have blocked him already add this to your signature and encourage others to block him as well. His onslaught of rambling in large text and his constant attempts to misinform at the excuse of being stupid should no longer be tolerated.

USER CP/Ignore list.

Last edited by Matthew Jones; 08-01-2018 at 09:18 PM.
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