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  #4021  
Old 07-26-2018, 10:36 AM
ricards ricards is offline
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here they go again...

@ altrez

It is natural for a battery to lose voltage when drawing a lot of amperage.. it is natural for a battery to recover voltage by itself.. when disconnected to a heavy load..
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  #4022  
Old 07-26-2018, 10:41 AM
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altrez altrez is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricards View Post
here they go again...

@ altrez

It is natural for a battery to lose voltage when drawing a lot of amperage.. it is natural for a battery to recover voltage by itself.. when disconnected to a heavy load..

Hello ricards,

Yes I agree that is normal battery behavior the energy returned to the positive of the battery from the circuit is what I was more interested in. I just wanted to give as much info as possible about every part of the test

Do you think that 0.800 amp's was truly put back into the battery or am I not understanding this at all lol



-Altrez
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  #4023  
Old 07-26-2018, 10:49 AM
bistander bistander is offline
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Voltage difference

Quote:
Originally Posted by altrez View Post
...
I used a 7.2 ah battery that started around 13.1 volts. with the motor and boost converter hooked up I documented 10.83 volts and 1.2 amps going into the boost. The boost was running at 26 volts.
...
Thanks for the reply. My understanding is that the input of the boost converter is connected directly to the battery. Then how is there a voltage difference? 13.1-12.5V on battery vs 10.83V on converter input?

Regards,

bi
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  #4024  
Old 07-26-2018, 10:59 AM
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altrez altrez is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Thanks for the reply. My understanding is that the input of the boost converter is connected directly to the battery. Then how is there a voltage difference? 13.1-12.5V on battery vs 10.83V on converter input?

Regards,

bi
Hello,

I do not understand that either. It only shows that drop when running the motor. Battery voltage while running tested with a fluke is 12.5v. The voltage between the battery and the boost converter drops to 10.83v when running the motor. The voltage on the output of the boost stays solid at 26.0v

-Altrez
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  #4025  
Old 07-26-2018, 11:14 AM
bistander bistander is offline
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Need to fix that

Quote:
Originally Posted by altrez View Post
Hello,

I do not understand that either. It only shows that drop when running the motor. Battery voltage while running tested with a fluke is 12.5v. The voltage between the battery and the boost converter drops to 10.83v when running the motor. The voltage on the output of the boost stays solid at 26.0v

-Altrez
Something is wrong there. Cheap test lead? Your camera work is very nice on the meters. Please show photos of the circuit and perhaps someone can identify the problem.

bi
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  #4026  
Old 07-26-2018, 11:33 AM
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altrez altrez is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Something is wrong there. Cheap test lead? Your camera work is very nice on the meters. Please show photos of the circuit and perhaps someone can identify the problem.

bi
Hello bistander,

I still have everything setup so I will try the test again this evening. I did use a cheap test lead for one quick connection I will fix that as well and post some pics.

Thank you for the help!

-Altrez
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  #4027  
Old 07-26-2018, 02:52 PM
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Turion Turion is offline
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Iternet

bi,
This system has been proved plenty of times by plenty of people. It just hasn't been proved to YOU. It is all about YOU.
Gotuluc, DUBUNKING our setup, didn't post on this forum. Instead, he posted it on a private forum that we happened to have access to, so here it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYcg...ature=youtu.be

As to The Burden of Proof. Just because you read it on the internet, doesn't make it true. I have no proof that this Burden of Proof you speak of is true. No one has proved it to ME, therefore, it has not been proven.
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  #4028  
Old 07-26-2018, 09:08 PM
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link

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
bi,
This system has been proved plenty of times by plenty of people. It just hasn't been proved to YOU. It is all about YOU.
Gotuluc, DUBUNKING our setup, didn't post on this forum. Instead, he posted it on a private forum that we happened to have access to, so here it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYcg...ature=youtu.be

As to The Burden of Proof. Just because you read it on the internet, doesn't make it true. I have no proof that this Burden of Proof you speak of is true. No one has proved it to ME, therefore, it has not been proven.
Hey Dave,
Can't get that link to work.

Maybe it's me?
wantomake
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  #4029  
Old 07-26-2018, 09:14 PM
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Didn’t work for me just now either, although I went there yesterday to make sure it was still active. It was from the “continued testing of the 3 Battery system” thread about 3 pages from the end of the thread. Will go there when I get home and try it again. Sorry about that. It was Luc testing Matt’s motorshowing more out than in
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  #4030  
Old 07-26-2018, 09:22 PM
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Too bad and typical

Maybe they don't like us investigating the investigators. And this is all so typical of some here that don't want this to be real.

Too bad!!

Hoping your moving and renovations are going ok. We finally have a start date this Saturday!!!!

wantomake
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  #4031  
Old 07-26-2018, 10:44 PM
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Turion Turion is offline
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Correct link

https://youtu.be/hYcghCtlG-4

Hope this link works.
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  #4032  
Old 07-27-2018, 02:39 AM
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wantomake wantomake is offline
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Video

Yes it does. And this is clear "proof" that the Matt modified motor does indeed have greater output than input.

And is there a conspiracy afoot to hide this video?
Why we wonder.....

wantomake
Thanks Dave
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  #4033  
Old 07-27-2018, 03:51 AM
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Turion Turion is offline
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No conspiracy

Actually, when Luc was contacted he was gracious enough to share the link so it could be published here. It had already been posted on the Basic Free Energy Device thread months back. He could have locked the YouTube video if he wanted to keep it hidden.

I have said for a long time that Matt’s motor put out more than goes in, which is why Matt designed molds to pour a ferrite core for the razor scooter motor. We believe that with ferrite cores it will be even MORE obvious. Just another project on my list of things to get done. I printed one of the molds but it has disappeared in the confusion of moving.
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  #4034  
Old 07-27-2018, 10:43 AM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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The ferrite core will resolve the problem of hysteresis, because the Silicon steel Core of the motor cannot handle 20 khz AC (Push Pull) without heating up.

In a perfect world the motor charges the coil which has a high induction, shuts the coil off, the voltage in coil rises, the wire is physically turned around on its connection. The coil reconnects to the positive source at a higher voltage, then dumps on the battery a large spike and amount of current that equals the back emf in the motor.
With ferrite the value of the return energy should be higher as it will not be burned off in heat and eddy currents. And of course the thing should run cooler.

Mind you this was early in the dev of the motor. Things have imroved:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl62ro6M3VE


Matt
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Last edited by Matthew Jones; 07-27-2018 at 10:57 AM.
  #4035  
Old 07-27-2018, 12:57 PM
dragon dragon is offline
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Don't read to much into the picture and diagram below, it was late last night and it had already been a long day. I still have some measuring to do... this is another busy day and I'll try to get to it - no promises.

I've already verified what Matt said about the motor in the past posting diagrams and building a circuit that would mimic the action. However, I have not built the modified motor.

The circuit shown below using a non modified motor... more later...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg one battery0.jpg (267.4 KB, 39 views)
File Type: png one battery.PNG (7.8 KB, 52 views)
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Last edited by dragon; 07-27-2018 at 01:02 PM.
  #4036  
Old 07-27-2018, 02:19 PM
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Turion Turion is offline
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Proof

Both of the videos above have been around for a while showing that what we are saying about the motor and how this system works is true. The video Matt just posted is YEARS old. Because someone hasn’t seen it doesn’t make it any less true. There is plenary of proof out there for those who look.

The line between success and failure on this system is very thin. The right motor, a BIG deep cycle battery, large wires and the right generator. A more efficient boost module really gets you over the line, but the $3.00 one will work to show you what is possible and THEN you can improve your system.

The big enemy in getting this to work perfectly is the impedance in the battery you are trying to charge. Bigger, higher quality batteries have LESS impedance and are more forgiving. I keep saying this over and over, but it is not ONE big thing that makes this work, it is a lot of little things. The wrong motor kills it. The wrong battery kills it. Clip leads instead of large wires kills it. You MIGHT get it to work with one or two of those things wrong, but we make NO promises.

Build it correctly and you will get the correct result. You get out of it what YOU put into it. With everything else correct and in place, when you add the correct generator, which speeds up under load casing a reduced amp draw on the motor, and has NO magnetic cogging to cause any increase in amp draw on the motor, you get the COP numbers you have only dreamed about. It is that simple

We gave you the circuit for free. We gave you Matt’s motor for free. We have given you the generator design for free. And what did we get in return? Researchers eager to explore a new idea, build something new and take a concept as far as they can take it? No. We got people insisting this doesn’t work and we don’t know what we’re doing. People insisting we prove every step over and over. Where is the drive and curiosity that keeps Matt and I looking at this stuff from every possible angle? We’ve got a bunch of people that spend all their time spouting theory and a bunch who have to be spoon fed everything because they are incapable of taking a risk in order to see anything outside the box they live in. There are those who have built this and know it works. Those who haven’t or won’t have exactly what they deserve, and no amount of intimidation or coercion will change my mind about THAT. I’ve spent thousands of dollars on this, and somebody who won’t spend $40 to rewind the motor is not deserving of my respect or consideration. Period. You have no idea how many times I have mailed off stuff to people who were committed to this but just could not afford it. I paid the $30 for the motor and the $20 for shipping. Unless it was to someone in Africa where it cost me almost $150 for shipping. But in that case it was motors and boost modules and wire to rewind. So I PUT my money where my mouth is and have no respect for those who won’t. None. You claim to be researchers. Get off your ass and research. The whole premise behind research is you build something HOPING it will work. Do you think I KNEW my generator would work before I built it? Get real! If you’re not here to do RESEARCH, go join a cooking forum where they give you and exact recipe. Or maybe a knitting circle.
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Last edited by Turion; 07-27-2018 at 02:27 PM.
  #4037  
Old 07-27-2018, 04:38 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Power

Quote:
Originally Posted by wantomake View Post
... And this is clear "proof" that the Matt modified motor does indeed have greater output than input.
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
...
I have said for a long time that Matt’s motor put out more than goes in, ...
Guys,

This is so very wrong. The power output from the motor is zero. There is no load on the shaft. By definition output power = zero.

On the video, we see some discrepancy between the meters and scope. But either way, 35.75W(rms) on the scope or 16.84W on the PS/Fluke, there is power going into the motor.

Power in. Zero power out. There is more power into than out of the motor.

True there is a short period where current reverses as indicated on the scope trace. So for that short time there is power from the motor to the PS. But it is a small fraction of the total power from the PS into the motor and is accounted for in the rms value indicated on the scope.

The peak of the current waveform is like 6 amps. This is well above the PS limit of 3A so the PS cuts back. This and the spikes occurring when the motor coil disconnects cause some odd behavior and meter readings.

Turion can preach all he wants, but he is misinterpreting data causing him to believe he has free energy.

I for one would like to carry on with the experiments. Maybe we can learn something.

Regards,

bi
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  #4038  
Old 07-27-2018, 04:47 PM
dragon dragon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
, and somebody who won’t spend $40 to rewind the motor is not deserving of my respect or consideration..
Personally I don't believe it's necessary... I'm sure both you and Matt can agree that there are other ways to accomplish the same or a similar outcome...

On another note... I tend to compare the cost of building an unknown device to a system I know works and will deliver. So I like to do a lot of homework before wasting money chasing rainbow's... I'm sure you and many others can relate to that. I know for a fact I can spend $120.00 and get a return of 15 kwh per month with that investment - month after month year after year... so to spend the same money or more to show I can light an LED bulb for free doesn't seem very practical.

Respectfully...
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  #4039  
Old 07-27-2018, 06:13 PM
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Turion Turion is offline
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Cost effectiveness

Dragon,
I agree with everything you said. That’s one of the reasons we’re not pushing the Benitez system. It absolutely works. Does everything it claims. But when you look at cost/kwh, solar is cheaper.

What Matt and I wanted to do with this and ALL we wanted to do is start people down the correct path. I don’t KNOW how much energy you can produce turning a generator with a rewound MY1016. I am using a rewound MY1020 on my System. I know THAT setup will put out 2000 watts. That’s more than a neon bulb. But it IS a big investment. All we wanted to show was that withMatt’s motor, the correct circuit and a no cogging lenz delayed generator you can get out way more than you put in.

It was to be a small setup to get people to follow this line of thinking about hou to use energy without using it up. Beyond that they are on their own as we have our own fish to fry.

As for other ways to achieve the same outcome. We can’t even get folks to replicate THIS way.
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  #4040  
Old 07-27-2018, 06:16 PM
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altrez altrez is offline
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Hello All,

I have been working on my test setup and tonight will do a side by side test of the one battery circuit that was posted with an unmodified motor running and also an unmodified motor running just off a 12 volt battery side by side.

I will document everything with photos.

-Altrez
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  #4041  
Old 07-27-2018, 06:46 PM
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wantomake wantomake is offline
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Sorry over thinking again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Actually, when Luc was contacted he was gracious enough to share the link so it could be published here. It had already been posted on the Basic Free Energy Device thread months back. He could have locked the YouTube video if he wanted to keep it hidden.

I have said for a long time that Matt’s motor put out more than goes in, which is why Matt designed molds to pour a ferrite core for the razor scooter motor. We believe that with ferrite cores it will be even MORE obvious. Just another project on my list of things to get done. I printed one of the molds but it has disappeared in the confusion of moving.
My mistake. I misunderstood something that I read on a pm.

wantomake
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  #4042  
Old 07-27-2018, 08:59 PM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
True there is a short period where current reverses as indicated on the scope trace. So for that short time there is power from the motor to the PS. But it is a small fraction of the total power from the PS into the motor and is accounted for in the rms value indicated on the scope.

The peak of the current waveform is like 6 amps. This is well above the PS limit of 3A so the PS cuts back. This and the spikes occurring when the motor coil disconnects cause some odd behavior and meter readings.
Again you just don't listen and you have no practical experience in any of this stuff we talk about. Your an expert without any back ground material or credential. You just choose to say whatever you think is practical, without ever looking at anything else as a model. Just your benign little experience.

That returned current is because of the HUGE spike of voltage returned to the battery. This huge spike slows the ions in the battery and allows the battery to take a charge. This has been proven over and over for at least the last decade looking a John Bedini's stuff.
You cannot return energy to a battery that is discharging in a format that is similar to what is discharging. It has to be high voltage. It has to be another flavor.
BUT!!! You missed the AC reading. Why does the AC meter almost double when under any other circumstance it would drop in half or worse with one of your efficient motors?

I'll tell ya, the scope does not show it all, and you know a whole lot less than you think.

I get so tired of this..For over a decade I have been working on this stuff, replicating all kinds of known working principles. Yet every time I try to help everyone some f*ck*n DICK like you has to show and spout everything he doesn't know. Shut your f*ck*n mouth and watch. Thats the best advice I can give you. Your not going to build anything that doesn't purposely fail and you'll never have have a good thing to say. Your just like so many before you. Your a dime a dozen. Worthless!

I for one am blocking him so I don't have to deal with this. Right on the BroMikey list.

Matt
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Last edited by Matthew Jones; 07-27-2018 at 09:30 PM.
  #4043  
Old 07-27-2018, 09:03 PM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Ahhh thats better! Removed the puke stain...
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  #4044  
Old 07-27-2018, 09:52 PM
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altrez altrez is offline
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Hello everyone,

I have got everything together for my test and wanted to show the small setup and beginning test's.

Here is everything:



Here is the tests that I did for the 12 volt 7.2 ah battery that I will be using for the one battery circuit run:






Here is the same tests for the basic run of just the motor and battery:






I cant think of anymore preflight tests to do so if anyone has some sugjestions please let me know.

The experiment plan is this. I am going to run these test with the standard stock motor and post the results. Then I am going to configure two new motors the way Matt set up his motor or as close as I can and then run the same tests.

After that I am going to add the next loop with a generator and another boost converter to each. The generators will all be the same.

Am I missing anything here?

Thanks!!!!!



-Altrez
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  #4045  
Old 07-27-2018, 10:10 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Reply

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
...
That returned current is because of the HUGE spike of voltage returned to the battery. ...
So Matt may have me blocked but to the other readers; I was talking about the video by luc using a power supply, or PS. There is no battery there. Matt cannot address the subject I'm talking about. He drags in a straw man, insults me and cusses me out.

Another thing is the "returned current" is not as he says "because of the huge spike of voltage." The scope plainly shows the reverse current prior to the spike. We might have had a discussion about the motor data. Oh well. I don't know why he gets bent out of shape.

bi
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  #4046  
Old 07-27-2018, 10:21 PM
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altrez altrez is offline
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After thinking about this a bit. I have decided to add a PWM to the basic test to control the power going to the motor. I want the power going into the motor to be as close to the same on each test.

If I just hook it straight up to the battery it will run wide open. I will sync up the basic test to the one battery circuit test in regards to power going into the motor to keep things fair.

Any thoughts?

-Altrez
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  #4047  
Old 07-27-2018, 11:29 PM
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Test Away!

39 people watching this thread. LOL
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  #4048  
Old 07-27-2018, 11:34 PM
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altrez altrez is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
Test Away!

39 people watching this thread. LOL
I know that is awesome now if we can get 39 people working on this at the same time we can change the world!

-Altrez
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  #4049  
Old 07-27-2018, 11:35 PM
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altrez altrez is offline
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To All,

I started my tests at 6:30 PM and will let them run for a few hours. After that there will be a resting period for the battery's to level out and I will retest them.

-Altrez
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  #4050  
Old 07-27-2018, 11:47 PM
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altrez altrez is offline
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To all,

Here is a few pics from each battery's perspective on power draw. I tried to get them in balance so the test would be as fair as possible.

Here is a pic of the basic battery running with a PWM amp draw:



And here is a pic of the one battery circuit amp draw:



These are coming directly from the battery.

-Altrez
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