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Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

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  #3901  
Old 07-14-2018, 11:57 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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My other DC boost converter

I have two DC boost converters. I call the one from the previous post the digital because it is adjusted digitally. The other boost is similar except it is adjusted by trim pots for output current limit and output voltage, hence I refer to it as analog. They both operate on PWM (digital control). Anyway I just tested it. Turion's circuit needs two boost converters.



From left to right. First boost converter (digital adjustable), second boost converter (analog adjustable), and my watt meter.

I used a 13.3 ohm load resistor.

Input 12.11V, 5.27A, 63.8W
Output 27.67V, 1.99A, 55.06W, 86.3% efficient.

Input 12.4V, 1.28A, 15.7W
Output 14.13V, 1.01A, 14.27W, 90.9% efficient.

bi
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  #3902  
Old 07-15-2018, 08:40 AM
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ilandtan ilandtan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Dave,

Thank you for finding this patent application. It is interesting to note it's not a granted patent, so again nobody can capitalize. If you look for the guy or the company no surprise that there is the big goose egg to that concept or company. I see some similarities to the 3B idea, however. The WO is stating an existence of a source of power, that has been discussed on other threads, and I believe it is a clear description of a D.S. AEG.

jm2c

John
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  #3903  
Old 07-15-2018, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by bistander View Post
I have two DC boost converters.....
Thats what I was telling you is the analog's are better. More than likely if you raise the input voltage you'll gain a couple of points on either one. They tend to run more efficient. With these simple little systems I tend to run a 24v and bring it up 36v. The returned energy ends up being less strain on the batteries and the overall efficiency of everything goes up especially in the batteries.

Also make sure to use big wires for the same reason. Test leads don't do the job.

Matt
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  #3904  
Old 07-15-2018, 02:52 PM
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Dave,

Thank you for finding this patent application.
It's priority date is 1990.
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  #3905  
Old 07-15-2018, 03:38 PM
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Patents

When you are looking at a patent on line, most of the patent sites have a listing entitled “similar patents” it is a giant rabbit hole with lots of branches and tunnels, but I find some really interesting stuff from time to time.

As to boost modules......the efficiency at which they work will determine how successful your system is. They have boost modules that are in the very high 90’s for efficiency according to their specs. It’s a matter of how much you want to pay for the efficiency.
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  #3906  
Old 07-19-2018, 11:36 AM
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Checking in

Just quick post.

Not had any shop time last week or this. Trying to get our home renovated is real pain. Working with contractors takes patience and good negotiations skills.

I'm still trying to learn a CAD program so a member can cnc parts for me. Trying to make the opposing magnets holders/adjustable parts. Who lied saying retirement was fishing, drinking beer, laid back with nothing to do?

Is anyone trying the latest setup with the boosters Matthew outlined?

Well coffee has cooled and must move toward microwave to heat it up.
wantomake
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  #3907  
Old 07-19-2018, 02:17 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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One Battery Set-Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by wantomake View Post
...
Is anyone trying the latest setup with the boosters Matthew outlined?
...
Hi wanto,

Do you mean this?


Diagram was attachment to his 7/13/2018 post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
If you have the stuff, give this a shot. It's as CHEAP as you will get.
I am unsure, but it might be the circuit which Matthew promised to "film" and post but has yet to do so. I was curious about it and since I had all the needed components on hand, I have been "building" it. Got life to deal with so going slower than I wished. I did get it all together and it did "run", but was unstable and appeared to be overloading some components, so I shut down and pre-tuned my converters and got a second wattmeter working. I have yet to test again. Here's a photo of the first system test.



Regards,

bi
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  #3908  
Old 07-19-2018, 02:32 PM
liber63 liber63 is offline
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Hi James!
I have tried the two batteries setup with boost converter and Matt's motor running in between. 20 minutes run then rest for 30 minutes, then run opposite direction for 20 minutes again. Done few rounds, total run 1 hour and a half.
After 30 hours or more both batteries showed gains, total 0,12 volt. Had motor running alone, not with generator.
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  #3909  
Old 07-19-2018, 04:21 PM
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Looks good

Bi,
I just tried to post here and lost all that one finger typing. It wouldn't post to Energeticforum website.
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  #3910  
Old 07-19-2018, 07:09 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Originally Posted by wantomake View Post
Bi,
I just tried to post here and lost all that one finger typing. It wouldn't post to Energeticforum website.
You gotta watch out for that. I preview my posts often. If you have a bum character (even hidden or invisible) it will cause it not to post. Usually it won't preview ether. Just go back in browser and delete most recent lines until it will preview then retype those deleted lines. Just happened to me the other day.

bi

I used to copy and paste all my composed posts into msword before hitting the send button. Another way to safeguard long posts.
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  #3911  
Old 07-20-2018, 01:20 AM
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Amps and other things

Liber63,
With a generator attached you will get better charging because the motor is pulling MORE amps, and batteries do like to be hit with some amps to pulse charge. But that is where MOST people run into failure. They donít have big enough batteries, so suddenly they are exceeding the C-20 discharge rate of their primaries and wondering why nothing works. So you either have to have bigger batteries for the load, or more batteries in parallel. If you go with more batteries in parallel, remember you CANNOT just hook the batteries all in parallel and connect the load to ONE of them. The line from the load must be the same length to EACH battery in parallel. We have said this a million times but I still see people posting pictures of setups I KNOW wonít work.
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  #3912  
Old 07-20-2018, 01:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Hi wanto,

Do you mean this?


Diagram was attachment to his 7/13/2018 post:


I am unsure, but it might be the circuit which Matthew promised to "film" and post but has yet to do so. I was curious about it and since I had all the needed components on hand, I have been "building" it. Got life to deal with so going slower than I wished. I did get it all together and it did "run", but was unstable and appeared to be overloading some components, so I shut down and pre-tuned my converters and got a second wattmeter working. I have yet to test again. Here's a photo of the first system test.



Regards,

bi
Has the motor in your circuit been modified? If its not modified as I outlined in a series of movies on you tube it won't work. And since its not the Razor scooter motor and it might not be modified how are you expecting it to work? And who are you going to blame when it does not work?
Don't you dare say it doesn't work when you are deviating from the plan, no matter how much you insist on measuring everything.

I don't know about anybody else but I see it coming now, cause it will not work the way the David outlined it without the modified motor.

Matt
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  #3913  
Old 07-20-2018, 02:52 AM
bistander bistander is online now
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Motor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
Has the motor in your circuit been modified? If its not modified as I outlined in a series of movies on you tube it won't work. And since its not the Razor scooter motor and it might not be modified how are you expecting it to work? And who are you going to blame when it does not work?
Don't you dare say it doesn't work when you are deviating from the plan, no matter how much you insist on measuring everything.

I don't know about anybody else but I see it coming now, cause it will not work the way the David outlined it without the modified motor.

Matt
Turion did not say anything about specifications concerning the motor. Just a "motor". It has a commutator, brushes and coils spinning in a magnetic field. Why does everybody have to use your motor?

Was this in fact the system you told us that you would film and post for us to see? When are you going to do that?

Regards,

bi
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  #3914  
Old 07-20-2018, 03:02 AM
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Lol

If you donít have a modified motor to deliver the required PULSE to charge the battery, you can substitute a boat anchor. It will work just as well as anything else. There is absolutely NO HARM in trying different things, as long as it is with the understanding that they are probably NOT going to work. If they DO, it is a nice surprise. We just donít want the blame when they DONíT work.

BIG batteries
Pulse motor
Large wires not clip leads
I just explained about batteries in parallel.

We WANT people to be successful. When enough people ARE, Matt and I can go away. I could use a vacation! Good luck!
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  #3915  
Old 07-20-2018, 03:12 AM
bistander bistander is online now
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Pulse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
If you donít have a modified motor to deliver the required PULSE to charge the battery, ...
Doesn't the boost converter between the battery and motor pulse?
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  #3916  
Old 07-20-2018, 03:48 AM
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Ststem

Bi,
We’ve explained EXACTLY how to build a working system. There are reasons for every part of it and we have explained WHY many, many, MANY times. Do whatever you want. We have said over and over and over and over and over that "THE MOTOR" is the Matt modified motor. I don't know how much clearer we can be about that. It will not work without it. If you want to know WHY, build both systems and put a scope on it. WE have DONE that. Many times over the last ten years. It's called research. That is why we posted specific details. That is why Matt modified the motor in the FIRST PLACE. Do you think we would spend all the time modifying the motor if an off the shelf one would accomplish EXACTLY the same goal?? REALLY???

Then people think they can come along and change things and get the same results, which they CANNOT. And then they blame us because the system they put together doesn't work. Like I said. Use a boat anchor. You will get the same result. If you want to know WHY, it has ALL been posted here many many many times. I don't owe it to ANYBODY to keep explaining the same crap over and over again. Yes, it IS more convenient for YOU, not to have to read through 131 pages of postings to figure out "why." But I really don't care what is convenient for you. So either do the research yourself, or follow the directions.

The people who have FOLLOWED DIRECTIONS have working systems. That doesn't mean they are going to last forever. They may still run down over time. But at least they will get to see the principles we are talking about in action. If they want MORE than that, they will have to do the research, because we are not giving away any more than we already have. The goal was to get a whole bunch of folks working together using the simple rewound motor and a $3.00 boost module to SEE the principles, and then experiment TOGETHER to see how far we could take this. What happens when you use a boost module that is 99.7% efficient instead of the $3.00 one that is 85-93% efficient? What happens when you add the lenz free, -0- magnetic cogging generator run by the motor to the mix. Even one with just ONE or TWO coils? Instead we have to fight with people to follow simple directions and argue with people who refuse to build it the way we explained it and then claim it doesn't work. We're really tired of that, and our tempers are short. We know this works. We know why it works. We are a long way down the road from what is shown here, but this is the correct path to get there. If people want to follow it, they may end up in the same place. If not, that's their choice. I can tell you that both Matt and I have gone behind the scenes to help people who are actually BUILDING to make sure they get the help they need to see what we wanted them to see. Many of them are no longer even posting here because they see this as a waste of time they could be spending on research. Some, like Wantomake, have continued to post here and try to help others. He has WAY more patience than I have at this point. We have GIVEN AWAY stuff that is worth a lot of money here, and STILL they are no builders. It just hurts my brain.
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  #3917  
Old 07-20-2018, 10:05 AM
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Hello Bi,

You are correct that a boost module does switch on and off. But there is a big difference between it and the modified Matt motor. The boost module switches internally at a rate in the kilohertz range. The Matt motor switches in the hertz range. Also the boost module has a cap on the output to smooth the on and off pulses. And the boost module is supplying power to the motor not to the battery. There have been many studies that show that lead acid batteries charge best when hit with strong pulses in the hertz range. I recently bought a commercial battery charger that charges with pulses.

I have not tried the circuit you posted. But I have spent many hours working with the original 3 battery system and some time with the 2 battery system. Using a pulse motor modified like Matt has shown will greatly increase your chances for success.

Respectfully,
Carroll
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  #3918  
Old 07-20-2018, 05:49 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Nice to hear from you

Quote:
Originally Posted by citfta View Post
Hello Bi,

You are correct that a boost module does switch on and off. But there is a big difference between it and the modified Matt motor. The boost module switches internally at a rate in the kilohertz range. The Matt motor switches in the hertz range. Also the boost module has a cap on the output to smooth the on and off pulses. And the boost module is supplying power to the motor not to the battery. There have been many studies that show that lead acid batteries charge best when hit with strong pulses in the hertz range. I recently bought a commercial battery charger that charges with pulses.

I have not tried the circuit you posted. But I have spent many hours working with the original 3 battery system and some time with the 2 battery system. Using a pulse motor modified like Matt has shown will greatly increase your chances for success.

Respectfully,
Carroll
Hi citfta,

In the circuit we're discussing, the boost converter between the battery and motor has a diode blocking any charge current from developing in the motor going to the battery.

I am not sure of what specific claim was made by Turion for this circuit. He did not specify anything other than a motor, which I have. I was simply going to assemble the circuit and see what happens. Still will, maybe today.

It all boils down to people making remarkable claims and then being unwilling to provide evidence or proof. It is unacceptable for them to insist those who question the value of their claim to build and prove/disprove the claim. The burden of proof lies on the one making the claim, not the guy questioning it.

You said "greatly increase your chances for success". So even if I used a modded motor, there is only a chance for success. It has been said everything for this system has been publicly disclosed. Then why don't they show us a working system? They're the experts. They have the best chance for success.

Regards,

bi
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  #3919  
Old 07-20-2018, 06:27 PM
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Hello Bi,

I am not sure what you mean by being unwilling to show evidence or proof. Several other people including myself have put together the 3 battery system and seen it work. Dave has posted many videos showing his work as Matt has also. Do you really want to watch a video for several hours to see that the batteries are able to stay charged when rotated according to the guidelines suggested by Matt and Dave. As I said I have not tried the circuit you posted but if they say it works I believe them because the other things they have shared I DO know work.

Yes there is a chance you could use a pulse motor and your system might not work. There are many variables that only you can control. The condition of the batteries, the size of the wire, the size of the motor and many other things could cause your system to not work as advertised. But several of us have seen that with some patience a system can be put together that WILL work. As Dave and Matt have said many times the most common problem is trying to draw too much power for the size of the batteries.

I know some of your background from what you and I have shared over the past few years. I know you are highly trained in electronics and therefore this is all a little hard for you to believe. But this idea of reusing power CAN and DOES work.

Respectfully,
Carroll
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  #3920  
Old 07-20-2018, 07:11 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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One battery

citfta,

That's why I jumped on this circuit. One battery. No need to rotate it. Right? No special parts, or so I was led to believe by Turion's diagram.

So what is the one battery system supposed to do? Why does he not just show us?

My expertise actually is in the field of energy conversion and storage systems primarily electrical in nature. Not so much electronics.

You say: "But this idea of reusing power CAN and DOES work".

Show me what you mean by this. I think this is where there is a basic misconception.

bi
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  #3921  
Old 07-20-2018, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post

You say: "But this idea of reusing power CAN and DOES work".

Show me what you mean by this. I think this is where there is a basic misconception.

bi
If there is a misconception its yours. Haven't you even hooked 3 batteries together and put a load in the middle between the positives?

Are you under the assumption that the load consumes the energy past entropy?

What is and who has a misconception?

Matt
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  #3922  
Old 07-20-2018, 09:38 PM
bistander bistander is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
...
Haven't you even hooked 3 batteries together and put a load in the middle between the positives?
...
I've done that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
...
Are you under the assumption that the load consumes the energy past entropy?
...
I have no assumptions. What is called the "load" is energy or work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
...
What is and who has a misconception?
That is what I am attempting to clarify. It is difficult because you won't show the details of how you determine this over-unity which you claim. Here is a recent example which leads me to believe the misconception is in the method you use to account for energy and work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
...
The amount of work done by the motor in watts plus the amount of watts of power produced by the generator is the TOTAL amount of work DONE by the system.
...
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bi
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  #3923  
Old 07-20-2018, 10:06 PM
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I don't recall making claims of overunity, in fact that not word I use. All we are claiming is that you can do more work out of your battery this way than you would if you wired conventionally.

If you send what power you have left to ground after your load that power is gone.
If you step your power up off your battery with boost converter it works the same as the 3 battery setup except you are sending the power back to the source positive. This will allow you to work X amount longer before the battery is dead.
If your load is a motor turning a generator you not only recover X amount but you can also recover the generated electricity after it does some work.

The combination of this and some small tuning can end up running much longer than actual capacity of the battery (Not the rated capacity). How much is entirely up to you. Whether it works at all is entirely up to you.

We are just trying simple examples for you to learn from.

Just because David does not speak the language you expect does not make the overall experiment wrong. Buts it up to you to put it together and report what you find, good or bad. But do not change the recipe or you are out on your own. You are no longer valid.
David didn't put the use of the modified motor in this because to him its a given. To most of us by now.

You can still use your stuff but this does not determine the outcome as true or false, this is your experiment, which you still may find good results.

Again in less detail The point of the setup is to prove you can do work without sending power to ground, just like the 3 battery system and hopefully you get a gain in the amount of work you are able to do hence raising the COP of the work done. We have no promises or claims after that.


Matt
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  #3924  
Old 07-20-2018, 10:18 PM
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Language

I was raised by apes. We measure everything in bananas. All this talk of amps and volts and watts is useless. How many bananas do you have to eat before you have the energy to do the work. That is the only question that matters. There are rumors of a tree where bananas can be gotten for ďfree.Ē Free bananas is all we dream about.
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  #3925  
Old 07-20-2018, 11:26 PM
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Over-unity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
I don't recall making claims of overunity, in fact that not word I use. ...
Turion has told me specifically that the generator output was 2000 watts while the motor input was 300 watts.

If that is not over-unity, what is it?

There have also been fantastic COP claims. There is no heat pump here so isn't a COP > 1 over-unity?

Difficult talking to three guys at once.

I realize some guys talk bananas. That is why I ask to see what you claim. Show the equipment in operation with the meters visible so there are no hidden bananas.

The simple way is to loop that motor generator so it powers itself. Only 300 watts of the 2000 generator output watts are needed to power the motor. You'll have 1700 watts left over. No battery needed. Should run 24/7 until the motor brushes wear out, right?

Regards,

bi
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  #3926  
Old 07-21-2018, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Turion has told me specifically that the generator output was 2000 watts while the motor input was 300 watts.

If that is not over-unity, what is it?

There have also been fantastic COP claims. There is no heat pump here so isn't a COP > 1 over-unity?

Difficult talking to three guys at once.

I realize some guys talk bananas. That is why I ask to see what you claim. Show the equipment in operation with the meters visible so there are no hidden bananas.

The simple way is to loop that motor generator so it powers itself. Only 300 watts of the 2000 generator output watts are needed to power the motor. You'll have 1700 watts left over. No battery needed. Should run 24/7 until the motor brushes wear out, right?

Regards,

bi
Thats a completely different thing. Once you make up your mind as to what project you wanna work on and you can settle your results I would be happy to help you with your direction . If your not happy with the fact we trying to share and give people a start then thats your problem. The stuff works YOU have to make it.

COP is applicable to any energy based system not just thermal, sorry you were misinformed.

You have already nit picked peoples choice of language, made claims of expertise when you do not even know the basic's of a boost converter, and now you as you did earlier, are demanding that we put a show on to prove to you this works. If you do not like what we hand out, go away. But stop distrubting everything with your whiny little rants.

Prove it to yourself or go be a dime a dozen expert who knows all and never has to try, I could care less. I am just offering help to those who work, which is basically no one anymore.

Matt
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ADD BROMIKEY TO YOUR IGNORE LIST He is a saboteur bent on the systematic distraction of every good topic on this forum and since he has been here most working threads have shut down. He is the enemy. If you have blocked him already add this to your signature and encourage others to block him as well. His onslaught of rambling in large text and his constant attempts to misinform at the excuse of being stupid should no longer be tolerated.

USER CP/Ignore list.
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  #3927  
Old 07-21-2018, 03:10 AM
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Turion Turion is offline
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Bi,
You got me. I spent thousands of dollars researching and developing the three versions of the generator I just disclosed in the video all so I could con people into spending $30.00 to buy a used razor scooter motor and convince them to waste their time rewinding it. By all means, do NOT build any of the things we have disclosed. Do not waste your time. You have a good day now.
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  #3928  
Old 07-21-2018, 10:21 AM
bistander bistander is online now
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Cop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
...
There have also been fantastic COP claims. There is no heat pump here so isn't a COP > 1 over-unity? ...
...
COP is applicable to any energy based system not just thermal, sorry you were misinformed.
...
I am not misinformed and did not say COP was not applicable. Although COP is typically used for thermal systems, I realize people on this board use it for other systems. So what I said that you missed was that when COP is used in a non-thermal energy transfer system, the figure (ratio) is the same as efficiency. And by definition of efficiency, a ratio of greater than one equates to over-unity. I put it in the form of a question to you. Care to answer?

Quote:
There are two types of devices, energy conver-ters and energy transfer devices. The efficiency of a heat (energy) transfering devices is called the coefficient of performance (COP) unlike the energy conversion devices. COP is also the ratio of Energy Output to the Energy Input like the energy efficiency.

In an energy converter, the output will be a portion of the energy input and it may be less than the energy input. Therefore, the efficiency will be less than 100% by the laws of thermodynamics. In an energy transfer device, the energy output is the amount of heat extracted from the heat source (Space to be cooled-in case of refrigeration). The extracted energy is not a portion of the input energy. The extracted energy can exceed the input energy. Therefore, the efficiency of an energy transfering devices can be higher than 100% without violating the first law of thermodynamics. Therefore, the name coefficient of performance.
From: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-di...ciency-and-COP

Quote:
coefficient of performance (COP)
Ratio of work or useful output to the amount of work or energy input, used generally as a measure of the energy-efficiency of air conditioners, space heaters and other cooling and heating devices. COP equals heat delivered (output) in British thermal units (Btu) per hour divided by the heat equivalent of the electric energy input (one watt = 3.413 Btu/hour) or, alternatively, energy efficiency ratio divided by 3.413. Higher the COP, higher the efficiency of the equipment.
From: What is coefficient of performance (COP)? definition and meaning - BusinessDictionary.com
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  #3929  
Old 07-21-2018, 10:27 AM
bistander bistander is online now
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Boost converters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
... when you do not even know the basic's of a boost converter, ...
I am familiar with the basics of a boost converter. What is it that leads you to state that I don't know the basics of a boost converter?
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  #3930  
Old 07-21-2018, 10:38 AM
bistander bistander is online now
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Builds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Bi,
You got me. I spent thousands of dollars researching and developing the three versions of the generator I just disclosed in the video all so I could con people into spending $30.00 to buy a used razor scooter motor and convince them to waste their time rewinding it. By all means, do NOT build any of the things we have disclosed. Do not waste your time. You have a good day now.
Turion,

I am building this which you disclosed recently.



You posted very little information about it. Like what is its purpose? And BTW, I did see where you told a member that any DC motor would work but Matt's modded motor was better.

Why are you guys jumping all over me? I am doing what you wanted. Building your system. Have you built this particular circuit? What were your results?

Regards,

bi
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