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  #3631  
Old 04-10-2018, 08:36 AM
kryszal05 kryszal05 is offline
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Coils

Hello wantomake,

I don't know if I can join your club as I don't drink coffee

Could you tell me what size of coils you plan to wind? What is the size of this plastic spool (I'm sorry if it has different name, my English is limited)?

Thank you
Lukasz
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  #3632  
Old 04-10-2018, 11:40 AM
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Non-coffee drinkers welcome

Quote:
Originally Posted by kryszal05 View Post
Hello wantomake,

I don't know if I can join your club as I don't drink coffee

Could you tell me what size of coils you plan to wind? What is the size of this plastic spool (I'm sorry if it has different name, my English is limited)?

Thank you
Lukasz
Lukasz,
Any one can join this club. I'll teach you the art of sippin coffee.Lol.

My spools are 3 1/4" long and 3" in diameter with a 3/4" core. I plan to wind 12 parallel series connected 23 awg magnetic wire. The length is not yet determined. I'll check with Turion on the length.

English is my first language but still can't use it correctly.

Back to my bad drinking habbit-coffee.
wantomake
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  #3633  
Old 04-10-2018, 01:45 PM
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Hi wantomake,

The easiest way to measure your wire is the method Dave (Turion) showed me. Go to Harbor Freight and get one of those wheels that you roll along the ground to measure distance. Take the handle off and mount the wheel and measuring counter on a suitable fixture. Make some guides for guiding the wire on to and off of the wheel. I used some small plastic tubing about 1/4" on the outside. This will give you enough room on the inside of the tubing for several strands of wire to go through all at the same time. With the wire or wires wrapped around the wheel you can then measure in feet the amount of wire you put on your coil.

Good luck on your build.

Carroll
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  #3634  
Old 04-10-2018, 02:11 PM
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Good wisdom

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Originally Posted by citfta View Post
Hi wantomake,

The easiest way to measure your wire is the method Dave (Turion) showed me. Go to Harbor Freight and get one of those wheels that you roll along the ground to measure distance. Take the handle off and mount the wheel and measuring counter on a suitable fixture. Make some guides for guiding the wire on to and off of the wheel. I used some small plastic tubing about 1/4" on the outside. This will give you enough room on the inside of the tubing for several strands of wire to go through all at the same time. With the wire or wires wrapped around the wheel you can then measure in feet the amount of wire you put on your coil.

Good luck on your build.

Carroll
Thanks so much,
Good teaching and wisdom is very valuable to me.

Will head to the Harbor Freight tomorrow cause I know what you’re talking about. Trying to build the generator and get parts for winding machine at same time. I did ask Temco magnet wire company if they would customize wind a spool of wire. Of course they said no.

But I will get more done if done by hand. DIY is my middle name.
wantomake
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Last edited by wantomake; 04-10-2018 at 02:13 PM.
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  #3635  
Old 04-10-2018, 06:33 PM
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https://youtu.be/LeTD5hGprsw
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  #3636  
Old 04-11-2018, 11:49 AM
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Video

Thanks Matthew,
Good video and idea there.

Always appreciate the thoughts and help.

wantomake
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  #3637  
Old 04-11-2018, 07:40 PM
kryszal05 kryszal05 is offline
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Sppol size

Quote:
Originally Posted by wantomake View Post

My spools are 3 1/4" long and 3" in diameter with a 3/4" core. I plan to wind 12 parallel series connected 23 awg magnetic wire. The length is not yet determined. I'll check with Turion on the length.

wantomake
Hi wantomake,

Thank you for spool size. I use metric units, so my wire is a little bit smaller (0.55mm, wikipedia says that 23 AWG wire is 0.57). What about magnets? I have 12 neo magnets, N42 20mm in diameter if I remember correctly.

I also rewound razor motor with Matt's suggestions in his vidoes, but you and Turion mentioned earlier that this motor could be to small for this size generator. Maybe later I will try to buy something bigger for prime mover. In few days I will be back home (I am on holiday right now) and I will try to start my construction. I hope to share my results here

Thanks to Matt and Turion for this great project and to you, wantomake, for inspiration and sharing your fantastic work.

Greetings,
Lukasz
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  #3638  
Old 04-11-2018, 11:50 PM
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Info

If you can spin your rotor by hand to get things going, the MY1016 razor scooter motor will work for you. If you have so many magnets and coils that YOU can’t turn the rotor by hand, don’t expect your motor to do it without drawing so many amps it burns up.

On my big machine my motor (MY1020) was pulling over 100 amps at start up and still could barely break the magnetic lock. The motor, designed to max at 27 amps was pulling more like 35 during run conditions. So I had to come up with solutions.
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  #3639  
Old 04-13-2018, 05:32 AM
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Trip

I will be in San Juan, Puerto Rico around noon tomorrow and staying for a week. Anybody from that corner of the world that wants to meet up, give me a shout. Doing the tourist thing with my two boys and a few friends.
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  #3640  
Old 04-13-2018, 11:49 AM
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Have a safe trip.

Will be finishing the big machine build by next week maybe. I have many variables to get right and working together.
Correct coil size/winding.
Coil core material.
Rpm of rotor.
Any mechanical issues.

I'm sure these variables can be adjusted and understood more as I run and test this idea. The goal of anybody trying to see overunity in this lifetime must be driven by a desire, a deep hunger to be free. Greed, fame, selfishness, human faults that block creativity doesn't bring freedom.

Right now I'm following a blueprint to build. But soon must think on my own to get all these variables working together. But there are those here to help out if needed and that encourages me to finish.

wantomake
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  #3641  
Old 04-13-2018, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citfta View Post
Go to Harbor Freight and get one of those wheels that you roll along the ground to measure distance.
The trouble with measuring wheels is that they come in a VERY wide range of prices. how crucial is hte result? Will a cheap one do?
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  #3642  
Old 04-13-2018, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrtner View Post
The trouble with measuring wheels is that they come in a VERY wide range of prices. how crucial is hte result? Will a cheap one do?
Since my primary concern is to make all my coils with the same length of wire I am not really too concerned if the measurement is not exact. As far as I can tell my coils do come out with a consistent amount of wire on each of them.
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  #3643  
Old 04-15-2018, 12:26 AM
kryszal05 kryszal05 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
If you can spin your rotor by hand to get things going, the MY1016 razor scooter motor will work for you. If you have so many magnets and coils that YOU can’t turn the rotor by hand, don’t expect your motor to do it without drawing so many amps it burns up.

On my big machine my motor (MY1020) was pulling over 100 amps at start up and still could barely break the magnetic lock. The motor, designed to max at 27 amps was pulling more like 35 during run conditions. So I had to come up with solutions.
Hi Turion,

Thank you for the info.

I have just read old posts in Basic Free Energy Device thread and you mentioned over there that you wound colis with 12 strands. Is this litz wire setup? Is it possible to use some of these wires to connect them in series to speed up under load or wires should be wound as bifilar to achive this?

Thanks
Lukasz
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  #3644  
Old 04-15-2018, 12:32 AM
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Measuring wheel

I used the cheapest one Lowe’s sells and all my coils work under load to speed the motor up. There is enough margin of error to cover you. Take a look at the chart to see how many ohms the correct length of wire should have and then measure the strands on your coil. That will keep you in the ball park.

Those of you who build these things are going to see that every single thing we have said is absolutely true if you build it correctly with the correct batteries. One day in the not too distant future we hope to have a whole bunch more stuff to share with you all. How much of what gets shared depends on a bunch of different things, but the basis for everything is this basic three battery circuit and changing your understanding of how electricity works and how YOU should be using it. Everything else is just using it more efficiently. We are in the process of testing some ferrite cores for the razor scooter motor as both motor coils and generator coils. Will let you all know the results. I have yet to build a razor scooter generator that speeds up under load, so putting together the specs for THAT is a big project I want to complete. Of course if somebody out there wants to give that a shot I wouldn’t mind at all.
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  #3645  
Old 04-15-2018, 12:48 AM
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Response

Lukasz,

No, not litz. 12 strands in parallel. I said to wind the generator coils with 12 strands about 200-250 feet long of #23 for a very simple reason. It gives you MORE options. You are probably going to have to connect at least 4 strands in series to get the speed up under load effect. MAYBE MORE. It depends on the size of your rotor, number of rotor magnets, core material and rpm you are turning the rotor at. I have no way of telling you absolutely that what YOU have will work unless it is exactly the same as what I have.

I can absolutely tell you what works with MY rotor with the number, size, and strength of the magnets I am using and with my core material running at the rpm I am running at. But then you will build something completely different and wonder why it doesn’t work.

That’s the problem with this stuff. The “so called” replicators use whatever crap they have to replicate with, and when it doesn’t work they look every place but the mirror for someone to blame. Sorry, I am ranting. I know you are trying and are just after a little help, and I WANT you to be successful, so will answer any questions I can. Don’t mean to lump a guy who is trying to build with guys who “claim” to have replicated our stuff.
:-)
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  #3646  
Old 04-15-2018, 01:01 AM
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Forward then

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
I used the cheapest one Lowe’s sells and all my coils work under load to speed the motor up. There is enough margin of error to cover you. Take a look at the chart to see how many ohms the correct length of wire should have and then measure the strands on your coil. That will keep you in the ball park.

Those of you who build these things are going to see that every single thing we have said is absolutely true if you build it correctly with the correct batteries. One day in the not too distant future we hope to have a whole bunch more stuff to share with you all. How much of what gets shared depends on a bunch of different things, but the basis for everything is this basic three battery circuit and changing your understanding of how electricity works and how YOU should be using it. Everything else is just using it more efficiently. We are in the process of testing some ferrite cores for the razor scooter motor as both motor coils and generator coils. Will let you all know the results. I have yet to build a razor scooter generator that speeds up under load, so putting together the specs for THAT is a big project I want to complete. Of course if somebody out there wants to give that a shot I wouldn’t mind at all.
I'm not moving very fast on my build but still moving ahead. I may be mounting the motor tomorrow. Got all the pvc spacers on the dowels. Will post more pics also.

I have much to learn here but, will be happy to see all you and Matt are doing. I envision a prototype coming from this upright generator that is like the Muller build but shaped as a electric motor with housing to make a powerful compact unit.

Looking forward to what this can become.
wantomake
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  #3647  
Old 04-15-2018, 09:04 PM
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A little more progress

Got a little more work done on the generator today. Even with all the rain and stormy weather. Hope these are clear enough and helpful to anyone that may be trying to build this Turion style generator. The PVC pipe works good for the spacers on the dowels. I did a couple test runs with the smaller MY1016 motor. There is some off balance with the rotor. Not sure why. Maybe the 1/16" plexiglas in the middle of the two circular rotors is out of alignment some.

More brass screws will be used in the top later on. I've used brass screws in the rotor area.

I've built this unit in my shop with basic shop tools. The rotor and magnets were donated by a member.
wantomake
30232690_1890691590961670_650689090_o.jpg30546893_1890690937628402_1332309020_o.jpg30825541_1890691257628370_814448383_o.jpg
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  #3648  
Old 04-18-2018, 12:17 PM
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Coffee and a good morning

Good morning Energeticforum !!!

I'm drinking coffee while enjoying the morning sun as it breaks over the trees.

The generator is at a stand still as I want to try different coils with cores. This is one of those variables discussed earlier. The correct or best core material is yet to be disclosed. But until that time I'll be using 1/16" welding rods. I saw John Bedini and Dave (Turion) use some type. Not sure the exact metal "softness" or whatever the term used there. Muller used ferrite cores on his machine.

According to Turion the variables must be adjusted, matched, or set to get results. One thing the rpms of my rotor must be adjustable. So I'm shopping for a DC power supply.

Any comments or ideas are welcome. My goal is to witness a self running machine that can be scaled to fit on a vehicle or scooter. Then the hope and dreams of my heart will become a reality.

wantomake
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Last edited by wantomake; 04-18-2018 at 12:20 PM.
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  #3649  
Old 04-19-2018, 08:45 PM
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Look at it this way....
When the coil is not connected to a load, it doesn't matter what kind of setup you have. As long as the motor is capable of turning the rotor with magnets on it past the coil, the wheel will go round and round with no change in speed except that which is caused by the attraction of the magnets on the rotor to the coil cores.

The instant you connect that coil to a load, you have a complete electrical circuit that includes a coil wrapped around some kind of a core. Magnetic flux is going to be captured by that core from the passing magnet, which creates electrical current in the (now completed) wire circuit The wire wrapped around the core turns the core into a powerful electromagnet of the SAME polarity as the magnet that created the flux. Let's call that "the event".

At the moment the event takes place, WHERE is that rotor magnet in relation to the core? THAT"s the entire key to success here. If it is approaching the core, the rotor will slow because you have to FORCE the two opposing magnetic fields to align. Now your motor cries out in pain. If it is at TDC (top dead center), you will push the rotor away with explosive force. This makes your motor cheer. If it is PAST TDC you will STILL push the magnet away, but not as forcefully. This only makes your motor smile.

How do you CONTROL the relationship between the magnet and the coil core. If the rotor is turning FAST enough, the magnet is at TDC when the event happens. If it is NOT at TDC, speed up the rotor and it WILL BE. This is why I have CONTINUALLY said that ANY coil will speed up under load AT THE RIGHT RPM. Using proper gearing or more voltage input to the motor, you can MAKE the event happen when you want it to. Timing is EVERYTHING

But there are OTHER ways to do it too.

Changing the core material so that it absorbs the magnetic flux FASTER or SLOWER changes when the wire becomes "electrified", which controls when the event happens.

Changing the capacity of the coil so that it requires MORE magnetic flux to "electrify" all that wire and induce the event also works. You can do this by HOW you wind and connect the wire as Tesla showed us and I have shown here MANY TIMES, or you can just put lots and lots of wire on the coil as Thaine Heinz did at first, OR.... you can put a small capacitor in parallel with the coil that absorbs SOME of the electricity generated by the flux in the core and slows down the timing of the event. THAT is what they did in Tesla's day. Tesla's winding solution was designed to REPLACE the capacitor which was expensive and hard to work with back then. Now they are CHEAP and easy to use. You would need to do some research to determine the RIGHT SIZE capacitor, because you NEED the event to happen, but it wouldn't take MUCH to change WHEN it happens. How much electrical energy will your coil hold as compared to a small cap? This will allow you to run at MUCH SLOWER SPEEDS by the way.

As you may notice, the NUMBER of magnets on the rotor has NO effect on the event, because EACH magnet creates its OWN event. So your only real variables are RPM and coil capacity (As determined by winding pattern, length of wire and the possible addition of a capacitor). I know I have probably said otherwise at times, but I was full of crap. I probably just wanted to sound like I know what I'm talking about. Sometimes I do, and sometimes I just make **** up for fun. Actually it is because there are SO MANY variables associated with building a generator and I just lump them all together even though some only affect the output or the ability of the motor to turn the rotor and have NOTHING to do with the delayed Lenz effect.

This is the sum total of knowledge I have gained about how to get a generator to speed up under load. It is not "Lenz Free" as many people would like to believe, and I know I have used that term at times myself when referring to what I have built. Lenz is going to happen. This just controls WHEN the event happens so that YOU can use it to your advantage. Or not. Your choice.

Hopefully this helps a little.
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Last edited by Turion; 04-19-2018 at 09:18 PM.
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  #3650  
Old 04-20-2018, 02:57 AM
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The event

Sorry Dave I just saw this and copied it to my other collected pages on a note book app.

But all I'm able to do is read through it a bunch of times but have nothing to post about. Cutting grass all day at my age has my brains locked down. I'll study through this with a clear head and hot coffee in the morning. Waiting for wielding rods now for the core material.

May need to take the rotor off and have a local shop balance it for me. The machine vibrates itself almost off the bench at times.

wantomake
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  #3651  
Old 04-20-2018, 04:16 AM
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AC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
...
The instant you connect that coil to a load, you have a complete electrical circuit that includes a coil wrapped around some kind of a core. Magnetic flux is going to be captured by that core from the passing magnet, which creates electrical current in the (now completed) wire circuit The wire wrapped around the core turns the core into a powerful electromagnet of the SAME polarity as the magnet that created the flux. Let's call that "the event".

...
Hi Turion,

As the rotor mounted magnet sweeps past the coil it induces one cycle of AC. So when a North magnet approaches the center of the pole (which is the core in the center of the coil), it induces current in the coil causing a N pole on the face towards the rotor. The N pole opposes the N magnet. At TDC (the moment the magnet is centered relative to the pole), there is zero voltage generated in the coil and no current, so the pole face actually becomes a consequent S pole. As the rotor magnet moves away from the pole, it generates opposite polarity so the current is in the other direction in the coil making the pole face S. This S pole then attracts the N magnet on the rotor causing a torque opposing rotation. The coil current always causes a polarity which will result in torque opposing rotation when generating current in that coil. This is the mechanism taking mechanical power from the prime mover.

What I have just described is easily verifiable by connecting a scope across the coil/load resistor. The scope will display voltage. Coil current will have the same profile (waveform) but scaled by Ohm's Law to the ohmic value of the load resistor. Give it a look.

Regards,

bi
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Old 04-20-2018, 05:07 AM
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Bi,
You are absolutely correct. Up to a point. It happens with a normal coil. The coil under load repels the approaching magnet and then switches polarity and attracts it as it is trying to leave. On a NORMAL coil. I didn’t bother to talk about the second event (the attraction part of that process) that takes place because what we want to do by delaying Lenz it to have the “like” polarity in the Coil core that will repel the magnet occur at the right time so that what you describe does not get the chance to happen. If that makes any sense.
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  #3653  
Old 04-20-2018, 03:34 PM
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Unusual coils

So I plan to wind my coils at 253 feet length x 12 using 23 awg and connecting three sets series parallel. Then this will aid in the delayed lenz event. Therefore the capacitance of the coil makes this possible?

I dare not engage in this discussion. My magnetism knowledge concerning generators and motors is lacking. But I'm learning. When the core material gets here next Wednesday I'll have something to get hands on experience with.

Dave I've only enough mag wire to build one coil at a time. Sorry to ask stupid question if this is one. But can I get any testing done with just one, two or even three coils?

Thanks for your post. I guess it will make more sense to me as this machine teaches my hard head.

wantomake
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Old 04-20-2018, 03:56 PM
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One coil

One coil wound the way you plan will give you what you need to test with.
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Old 04-20-2018, 04:43 PM
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Good to hear

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
One coil wound the way you plan will give you what you need to test with.
Thanks Dave,
Good. I plan to connect the modified Matt my1016 to the 3BGS setup from my videos later on for more power.

At 13 Volts straight connected to the battery bank the rpms are high. I'll try that first before connecting through the booster setup.

Got to get the coil wound and get the core material in before any testing. Just thinking ahead.

wantomake
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Old 04-21-2018, 11:58 AM
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Thank you Dave. It's all much clearer now. It only remains to be put into test and determine the right parameters.

Wantomake, I can not use my left hand for another 5 weeks but thought i could buy from ebay some stuff, like welding rods, as it takes 3-4 weeks to deliver. So I searched and find lots of different kinds. Which ones will you use, and how many for each coil. I see the prices very a lot. When I am ready I will use your setup parameters as guidance. For wire I already bought 23 quite a lot.
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Old 04-21-2018, 04:12 PM
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Later answer

Quote:
Originally Posted by liber63 View Post
Thank you Dave. It's all much clearer now. It only remains to be put into test and determine the right parameters.

Wantomake, I can not use my left hand for another 5 weeks but thought i could buy from ebay some stuff, like welding rods, as it takes 3-4 weeks to deliver. So I searched and find lots of different kinds. Which ones will you use, and how many for each coil. I see the prices very a lot. When I am ready I will use your setup parameters as guidance. For wire I already bought 23 quite a lot.
I’m away from home and my links to eBay where I bought the rods. I’ll post the link here for you.
As Dave said the parameters or variables are different for each build. Just build and adjust until they work together. Sounds like bad advice I know. But that’s my plan. When the unit sits in front of you on the bench then you learn and adjust it. There may be better way than mine. Sorry.

Will be home later today then I’ll post the links.
wantomake
Hope the hand gets better. Good time to study and plan.
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  #3658  
Old 04-21-2018, 05:36 PM
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Link

Here's the link for the rods:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Welding-Rod...72.m2749.l2649

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Old 04-24-2018, 02:49 AM
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Core material

Got the welding rods in today.

Want to get into the shop to wrap the 12 single strands onto empty spools, then onto the main larger coil. Bought the necessary parts to measure out the feet needed. Will assemble winding machine now that I've all the parts.

Will take a few pics as I wind just in case it will be any help to someone.

wantomake
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Last edited by wantomake; 04-24-2018 at 02:56 AM.
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Old 04-26-2018, 11:34 AM
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wantomake wantomake is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post
I have more pieces to the puzzle as of today. I have been watching this
forum and seeing all entries. Turion is out. Soon we will rule the board.

I sure hope so, it is time.

The Chinese sent me 2 hubs 1mm bigger than the package says.
So I get my hubs (1 of 3 separate deals I made) look at the label
and it says 10mm shaft size but the calipers show 11mm

I have 2 more and they work (to smart to buy just one) just fine, 1
is from USA much larger. More coming. This is for Jordan's proof of
the concept. Going iron laminates first then to rods in black sand
later to compare.

Stand strong, fight til the end, never give in.
Bro,
Hope you're just posting an LOL moment. Turion isn't out. As people wake up and build/post more I'm sure he will notice and join in.

I worked most of the day on the winding machine yesterday. My Chinese made(no offense please) hand winding apparatus got bumped off the desk and broke the cast iron hand crank. Had to build one from scratch real iron piece. But still got a good idea on how to build a low tech coil winder.

Oh I'm past stopping now. Got too much time, resources, and thought in this setup to give up. When a self runner, self charging, motor/generator is on a bench, EV car or scooter, then I will set back and enjoy watching this thread explode with "Oh it does work and could you help us build one!!!!!!"

Dave and Matthew will say no, I'll laugh but answer READ THIS THREAD.
wantomake
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Last edited by wantomake; 04-26-2018 at 11:36 AM.
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