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Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

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  #3541  
Old 01-16-2018, 09:52 PM
liber63 liber63 is offline
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Hi Dave!
Pulse is the answer!
And deep cycle!
Still trying to find my way after your last email. I have to do my homework first and then ask for the right questions. An effort not to look a complete idiot. People are watching.
Wantomake with his project also helps alot!!!
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  #3542  
Old 01-16-2018, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liber63 View Post
Hi Dave!
Pulse is the answer!
And deep cycle!
Still trying to find my way after your last email. I have to do my homework first and then ask for the right questions. An effort not to look a complete idiot. People are watching.
Wantomake with his project also helps alot!!!
Darn it, I had to work all day so no shop time. Now a snow storm may be coming.

No if you are building you are smart and not an idiot. Glad the project is helping someone. Welcome to all builders.

wantomake
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  #3543  
Old 01-17-2018, 02:32 AM
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Just an update. Got my 90ah deep cycle batteries and wired them up! Just waiting for the motor now.

IMG_4346.jpg
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  #3544  
Old 01-17-2018, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by john00287 View Post
Just an update. Got my 90ah deep cycle batteries and wired them up! Just waiting for the motor now.

Attachment 20363
Just curious to why you got four batteries instead of just three.

wantomake
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  #3545  
Old 01-17-2018, 11:18 PM
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Matt motor build

In the end cap that has the brush plate, drill the hole that the bolt threads into all the way through the end cap. Now flip it over and drill holes on both sides of it, creating s “slot” that the bolt will go through. Replace the bolts with LONGER all-thread. Put the cap back on and rotate it to where the timing is correct. If your slots are not long enough, drill more holes. When the timing is correct, put nuts on the all thread that is sticking up out of the slots, and tighten the cap down from the outside. If you want a really finished look, cut the all-thread the right length and you can use acorn nuts with a washer and a lock washer. That is the simplest way I know to give you all the adjustment you want. You can get a tiny bit more by removing the tabs on the bottom end cap so it can rotate freely also, but it will only rotate until the bolt going through the motor hits the magnet. Very LITTLE rotation, but SOME. The way I just described gives you the most adjustment, and you control it.
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Last edited by Turion; 01-18-2018 at 02:12 AM.
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  #3546  
Old 01-17-2018, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Majestic81 View Post
That was initially my question ; I've removed the document as it will only misslead myself and other people.

That is not the goal here.
Thanks!!

Matt
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  #3547  
Old 01-18-2018, 02:26 AM
john00287 john00287 is offline
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Wantomake, my third battery is two in parallel. If that doesn't work well, then I can rest one and rotate the other.
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  #3548  
Old 01-18-2018, 02:56 AM
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System

The most efficient way to USE what this system gives you is to rotate the batteries (so you want at least one resting) and USE the free mechanical power of the motor. You CAN pull loads offbattery 3 while charging the primaries, but the MOST efficient way is to just rotate the batteries. The more load you put on the motor, thefaster battery 3 charges and the sooner you have to rotate the batteries.
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  #3549  
Old 01-18-2018, 04:07 AM
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Parallel

That's the best way by switching the batteries around. I want to learn Arduino and get the circuits to do electronic switching. But not there yet.

So right now just using same batteries in same positions. That's why I spent so much time balancing the system.

I have 4 batteries in parallel in #3 position. My reason is for solar power to run my shop. I also have two in #2 and #1 positions in parallel. At night I turn on the 3BGS to keep the battery bank charged so I can get more shop time. But to my surprise with the balancing, the battery bank doesn't lose any voltage.

As I'm over curious about anything that is beyond my abilities, I started building the larger generator. But that's only because I understand the basics from building and using, testing, learning from this simple setup first.

wantomake
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  #3550  
Old 01-19-2018, 02:56 AM
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Laptop down

My laptop is only 1 1/2 month old but has a problem. It was bought for me to do FE stuff like downloads and studying. It started turning off randomly for some reason. Hopefully the Geek squad can repair it and will get it back Saturday.

So can't do any updates of videos or pictures for couple days.

Finally getting above freezing here in SC so will try to get busy tomorrow. If life or other things doesn't pull me away from the shop.

wantomake
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  #3551  
Old 01-19-2018, 03:50 AM
john00287 john00287 is offline
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Got my motor, time to play!

https://youtu.be/AtGv8gDCmBU
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  #3552  
Old 01-19-2018, 01:19 PM
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Video

Good video John.

Look forward to your progress.

wantomake
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  #3553  
Old 01-21-2018, 02:46 AM
john00287 john00287 is offline
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Update: removed wires from rotor. More work than I thought!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_4359.jpg (161.8 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_4360.jpg (134.8 KB, 26 views)
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  #3554  
Old 01-21-2018, 03:07 AM
2600 2600 is offline
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Motors Arrived!

I received the 2 MY1016 motors I ordered off eBay. This evening I removed the wire from one of the motors. I used dikes to cut the coils and then slid the wire from the sleeves. I ordered 1lb of 24 AWG magnet wire so I'll be winding the coils 40-30-30 as recommended. Since the magnet wire is enameled, am I correct that I should melt the coating off the ends of the coils that attach to the motor? Thanks!

Jameson

2018-01-20 17.34.57.jpg

2018-01-20 18.15.33.jpg
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  #3555  
Old 01-21-2018, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2600 View Post
I received the 2 MY1016 motors I ordered off eBay. This evening I removed the wire from one of the motors. I used dikes to cut the coils and then slid the wire from the sleeves. I ordered 1lb of 24 AWG magnet wire so I'll be winding the coils 40-30-30 as recommended. Since the magnet wire is enameled, am I correct that I should melt the coating off the ends of the coils that attach to the motor? Thanks!

Jameson

Attachment 20367

Attachment 20368
J,
Best way I found was to sand it off with fine grain sandpaper. Or can use utility knife. But to each what works best.

wantomake
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  #3556  
Old 01-21-2018, 06:37 PM
2600 2600 is offline
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Thanks!

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Originally Posted by wantomake View Post
J,
Best way I found was to sand it off with fine grain sandpaper. Or can use utility knife. But to each what works best.

wantomake
Thanks Wantomake! It looks like Iím at the same stage as several others with these motors. Iíll post updates and look forward to reading updates from others.
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  #3557  
Old 01-21-2018, 11:22 PM
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Fastest way is to burn it off, then sand what remains. I use a little flick lighter called ďWind ResistantĒ That has a glass piece in handle which lets you see how much fluid is left. Burns with forced flame like a cutting torch. Then #60 sandpaper, which is way course. But do it that way from habit. Donít know if itís the best.
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  #3558  
Old 01-22-2018, 01:01 PM
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Testing while waiting

Still slow go with the modified Dave generator. In the mean time been assembling lithium ion 18650 size battery packs. Each one has 14+- volts each bundle. One bundle is 16 batteries each. 4 batteries in series as each row has 4 in parallel. One bundle powers the modified Matt motor fairly well. With the warm thaw it allows time to get some crazy tests out of my head.

Not sure how the lithium ions will react to the 3BGS setup with one bundle wired backwards. As these type batteries are fire hazards, don't try this unless you are knowledgeable of their dangers.

I plan to replace my solar bank with all lithium batteries. The life cycles is much longer with higher amp hours.

Just trying to keep up with modern tech while trying to improve the 3BGS setup.

wantomake
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  #3559  
Old 01-22-2018, 02:56 PM
kenssurplus kenssurplus is offline
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batteries

Wantomake, if you are interested in keeping up with modern tech batteries, have a look at what Robert Murray-Smith is doing with batteries running motors here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcK9JSxVNUc

Here he compares a hemp battery with a lithium one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7K4eIOmiJL4

p.s. sorry if the vids don't show up, I cant remember how to do it right, and am out of time for now.
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  #3560  
Old 01-22-2018, 04:51 PM
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over my pay grade

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenssurplus View Post
Wantomake, if you are interested in keeping up with modern tech batteries, have a look at what Robert Murray-Smith is doing with batteries running motors here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcK9JSxVNUc

Here he compares a hemp battery with a lithium one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7K4eIOmiJL4

p.s. sorry if the vids don't show up, I cant remember how to do it right, and am out of time for now.
Ken,
Very interesting as this is proof that our technology is changing so fast. Hemp- who would have thought it?
But that's a bit over my knowledge level and shop ability. I was able to watch both videos. Have seen many of his tests but my chemistry training was only two weeks in Tech College which I cancelled because my brains almost exploded. But strange enough I made the Dean's List that year for HVAC dept highest GPA. Haha.

wantomake
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  #3561  
Old 01-23-2018, 07:02 AM
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lithium batts

Quote:
Originally Posted by wantomake View Post
Still slow go with the modified Dave generator. In the mean time been assembling lithium ion 18650 size battery packs. Each one has 14+- volts each bundle. One bundle is 16 batteries each. 4 batteries in series as each row has 4 in parallel. One bundle powers the modified Matt motor fairly well. With the warm thaw it allows time to get some crazy tests out of my head.

Not sure how the lithium ions will react to the 3BGS setup with one bundle wired backwards. As these type batteries are fire hazards, don't try this unless you are knowledgeable of their dangers.

I plan to replace my solar bank with all lithium batteries. The life cycles is much longer with higher amp hours.

Just trying to keep up with modern tech while trying to improve the 3BGS setup.

wantomake
Very much looking forward to data on the lithiums. They are fire hazards or at can be but those are the lithium cobalt and other variations.

They're expensive, but LiFePO4 - Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries are not fire hazards, safer, more environmentally friendly, etc.

In either case, the advantage lithium batts have over lead acids besides being constant voltage batteries (lead acid are constant current) is that the ions are a fraction of the mass of lead acids - their internal impedance is a fraction of lead acids so theoretically, they should charge faster, a battery being put in "rest" mode shouldn't have to be in rest mode as long since there is less momentum of the charging mode to absorb fully by the battery, etc.

I've seen mixed results with LiFePo4 used in Bedini SG setups for example - it would be very interesting and important if you are able to exploit their advantages in the 3 battery setup. Supposedly, lithiums do not like to be pulsed with spikes or cap dumps and are more suited for steady current, but I have also seen situations where that didn't seem to be an issue.

Btw, I did rewind a scooter motor and will post something on that later. Still doing a few mods on the Kromrey but as soon as I can, I want to run the Kromrey on that motor.

Thanks for all your posts and glad to see some others starting to take part in this project and thanks to Matt and Dave for their continued support.
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  #3562  
Old 01-23-2018, 01:31 PM
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More information

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
Very much looking forward to data on the lithiums. They are fire hazards or at can be but those are the lithium cobalt and other variations.

They're expensive, but LiFePO4 - Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries are not fire hazards, safer, more environmentally friendly, etc.

In either case, the advantage lithium batts have over lead acids besides being constant voltage batteries (lead acid are constant current) is that the ions are a fraction of the mass of lead acids - their internal impedance is a fraction of lead acids so theoretically, they should charge faster, a battery being put in "rest" mode shouldn't have to be in rest mode as long since there is less momentum of the charging mode to absorb fully by the battery, etc.

I've seen mixed results with LiFePo4 used in Bedini SG setups for example - it would be very interesting and important if you are able to exploit their advantages in the 3 battery setup. Supposedly, lithiums do not like to be pulsed with spikes or cap dumps and are more suited for steady current, but I have also seen situations where that didn't seem to be an issue.

Btw, I did rewind a scooter motor and will post something on that later. Still doing a few mods on the Kromrey but as soon as I can, I want to run the Kromrey on that motor.

Thanks for all your posts and glad to see some others starting to take part in this project and thanks to Matt and Dave for their continued support.
Thanks Aaron,
It has been hard to build the little lithium ion packs. Don't like soldering ends of batteries. But after doing a few got the hang of it. Reading/studying the methodology, there is much quicker and effective spot welding setups. They use the thin silver strips and tack them on each battery. I will use that method as I progress to larger Tesla wall units. Jehu Garcia has very good channel if anyone needs to know.

For testing purposes just smaller 12-14 volt bundles will be safer and easy as a starting point.

I only paid $1 each for 50 of these last year plus the few I had already from old laptop battery packs.

Looking forward to the Kromrey generator, would like to learn more about it. When days increase to 26 hours and my shop doubles in size, I plan to try the ZPM and Kromrey.

Yes thanks Matt and Dave for your patience and help. To all builders "gan ba tte" (you can do it!!!) as my Japanese wife encourages me and all of us together.

wantomake
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  #3563  
Old 01-24-2018, 04:58 AM
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pictures Lithium Ion packs

Here is the three lithium ion packs to be used with the 3BGS in three battery positions.

27330255_1794536640577166_953555160_o.jpg27398559_1794536583910505_41484595_o.jpg

Will post any results when time allows me.
wantomake
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  #3564  
Old 01-24-2018, 10:08 PM
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Lithium packs

The lithium-ion packs didn't do well.

After looking at them I understand why those that use them have so many in one block. Just not enough amp hours in mine to hold up. But did take my crazy testing ideas. If I can afford hundreds then will use them in solar setup with 3BGS as backup.

Not a total waste of time.
wantomake
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  #3565  
Old 01-25-2018, 01:46 AM
2600 2600 is offline
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Coil Winding...

Tonight I wound the coils. I havenít cut off the excess and soldered yet. Currently I have 3 coil ends together under 3 lugs, then I skip a lug and the other 3 ends are together under 3 lugs. From an electrical standpoint, are the 3 ends of the 3 coils supposed to be tied together under 3 lugs? This part was baffling me as I would assume each coil wire would get itís own lug. Thank you in advance!

56F4BF33-0513-4707-8600-898BD5D883EE.jpg

BC822CF0-FFFA-49B9-93C0-89EFF95D79DE.jpg

Jameson (just like the whiskey)
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  #3566  
Old 01-25-2018, 03:51 AM
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Correction if I may

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2600 View Post
Tonight I wound the coils. I haven’t cut off the excess and soldered yet. Currently I have 3 coil ends together under 3 lugs, then I skip a lug and the other 3 ends are together under 3 lugs. From an electrical standpoint, are the 3 ends of the 3 coils supposed to be tied together under 3 lugs? This part was baffling me as I would assume each coil wire would get it’s own lug. Thank you in advance!

Attachment 20386

Attachment 20387

Jameson (just like the whiskey)
It looks like you have (1) single wire wound around each coil. No. You keep the three wires together at all times. Parallel to each other. Side by side they make one wire with three strands in it. Look at Matthew's video again, the first one.

I don't know how wide the (3) segments are on the commutator is. Open or bend back the three tabs carefully. Clean the lacquer from ends of three wires same length as the width of the 3 segments. Place that end with three wires together into the three segments. Gently bend the tabs down over the three wires. Three tabs hold the three wire ends. I used a small flat head screw driver and my hand to push it down.

Now go up to middle first rotor iron to start winding(refer to the video) the coil. As you look at it you should wind clock-wise. 40,30,30 wind all the coils with the three wires together as one trifilar wire.

Hope this helps. Matts videos really explains it in good detail.
wantomake
https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=LLG...&v=faZIszrlllI

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eFR-d_oaYsY
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Last edited by wantomake; 01-25-2018 at 04:13 AM.
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  #3567  
Old 01-29-2018, 02:35 PM
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no new info

To All,
No new building or improvements over the weekend. Hope all is well with new builds here.

Will try to get to re-wiring the MY1016 generator I'm using at present. Still trying to get back to building larger Daves generator. Things always slow to dead stop in winter time for me.

Keep at it and we'll get there,
wantomake
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  #3568  
Old 01-29-2018, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2600 View Post
Tonight I wound the coils. I havenít cut off the excess and soldered yet. Currently I have 3 coil ends together under 3 lugs, then I skip a lug and the other 3 ends are together under 3 lugs. From an electrical standpoint, are the 3 ends of the 3 coils supposed to be tied together under 3 lugs? This part was baffling me as I would assume each coil wire would get itís own lug. Thank you in advance!

Attachment 20386

Attachment 20387

Jameson (just like the whiskey)
Check the correct diagram here
http://www.energeticforum.com/307553-post3532.html
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  #3569  
Old 01-30-2018, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majestic81 View Post
2600,
I thought you got the winding part as far as the diagram shows. But you asked about each coil getting it's own tab or lug. I'm sure I answered your question correctly. You've got correct winding pattern just had the tab connections question.

Hope my answers helped,
wantomake
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  #3570  
Old 01-30-2018, 01:06 AM
2600 2600 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wantomake View Post
2600,
I thought you got the winding part as far as the diagram shows. But you asked about each coil getting it's own tab or lug. I'm sure I answered your question correctly. You've got correct winding pattern just had the tab connections question.

Hope my answers helped,
wantomake
Majestic81, thanks for the diagram!

Wantomake, yes you answered my questions about winding the coil properly. I ended up buying 3 spools of wire and pulling the 3 strands of wire off the spools as I wound the coils. All of the 100 total turns on each side of the rotor are continuous trifilar wound.

Jameson
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