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  #3541  
Old 01-21-2018, 11:22 PM
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Turion Turion is offline
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Fastest way is to burn it off, then sand what remains. I use a little flick lighter called ďWind ResistantĒ That has a glass piece in handle which lets you see how much fluid is left. Burns with forced flame like a cutting torch. Then #60 sandpaper, which is way course. But do it that way from habit. Donít know if itís the best.
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  #3542  
Old 01-22-2018, 01:01 PM
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Testing while waiting

Still slow go with the modified Dave generator. In the mean time been assembling lithium ion 18650 size battery packs. Each one has 14+- volts each bundle. One bundle is 16 batteries each. 4 batteries in series as each row has 4 in parallel. One bundle powers the modified Matt motor fairly well. With the warm thaw it allows time to get some crazy tests out of my head.

Not sure how the lithium ions will react to the 3BGS setup with one bundle wired backwards. As these type batteries are fire hazards, don't try this unless you are knowledgeable of their dangers.

I plan to replace my solar bank with all lithium batteries. The life cycles is much longer with higher amp hours.

Just trying to keep up with modern tech while trying to improve the 3BGS setup.

wantomake
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  #3543  
Old 01-22-2018, 02:56 PM
kenssurplus kenssurplus is offline
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batteries

Wantomake, if you are interested in keeping up with modern tech batteries, have a look at what Robert Murray-Smith is doing with batteries running motors here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcK9JSxVNUc

Here he compares a hemp battery with a lithium one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7K4eIOmiJL4

p.s. sorry if the vids don't show up, I cant remember how to do it right, and am out of time for now.
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  #3544  
Old 01-22-2018, 04:51 PM
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over my pay grade

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenssurplus View Post
Wantomake, if you are interested in keeping up with modern tech batteries, have a look at what Robert Murray-Smith is doing with batteries running motors here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcK9JSxVNUc

Here he compares a hemp battery with a lithium one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7K4eIOmiJL4

p.s. sorry if the vids don't show up, I cant remember how to do it right, and am out of time for now.
Ken,
Very interesting as this is proof that our technology is changing so fast. Hemp- who would have thought it?
But that's a bit over my knowledge level and shop ability. I was able to watch both videos. Have seen many of his tests but my chemistry training was only two weeks in Tech College which I cancelled because my brains almost exploded. But strange enough I made the Dean's List that year for HVAC dept highest GPA. Haha.

wantomake
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  #3545  
Old 01-23-2018, 07:02 AM
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lithium batts

Quote:
Originally Posted by wantomake View Post
Still slow go with the modified Dave generator. In the mean time been assembling lithium ion 18650 size battery packs. Each one has 14+- volts each bundle. One bundle is 16 batteries each. 4 batteries in series as each row has 4 in parallel. One bundle powers the modified Matt motor fairly well. With the warm thaw it allows time to get some crazy tests out of my head.

Not sure how the lithium ions will react to the 3BGS setup with one bundle wired backwards. As these type batteries are fire hazards, don't try this unless you are knowledgeable of their dangers.

I plan to replace my solar bank with all lithium batteries. The life cycles is much longer with higher amp hours.

Just trying to keep up with modern tech while trying to improve the 3BGS setup.

wantomake
Very much looking forward to data on the lithiums. They are fire hazards or at can be but those are the lithium cobalt and other variations.

They're expensive, but LiFePO4 - Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries are not fire hazards, safer, more environmentally friendly, etc.

In either case, the advantage lithium batts have over lead acids besides being constant voltage batteries (lead acid are constant current) is that the ions are a fraction of the mass of lead acids - their internal impedance is a fraction of lead acids so theoretically, they should charge faster, a battery being put in "rest" mode shouldn't have to be in rest mode as long since there is less momentum of the charging mode to absorb fully by the battery, etc.

I've seen mixed results with LiFePo4 used in Bedini SG setups for example - it would be very interesting and important if you are able to exploit their advantages in the 3 battery setup. Supposedly, lithiums do not like to be pulsed with spikes or cap dumps and are more suited for steady current, but I have also seen situations where that didn't seem to be an issue.

Btw, I did rewind a scooter motor and will post something on that later. Still doing a few mods on the Kromrey but as soon as I can, I want to run the Kromrey on that motor.

Thanks for all your posts and glad to see some others starting to take part in this project and thanks to Matt and Dave for their continued support.
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  #3546  
Old 01-23-2018, 01:31 PM
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More information

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
Very much looking forward to data on the lithiums. They are fire hazards or at can be but those are the lithium cobalt and other variations.

They're expensive, but LiFePO4 - Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries are not fire hazards, safer, more environmentally friendly, etc.

In either case, the advantage lithium batts have over lead acids besides being constant voltage batteries (lead acid are constant current) is that the ions are a fraction of the mass of lead acids - their internal impedance is a fraction of lead acids so theoretically, they should charge faster, a battery being put in "rest" mode shouldn't have to be in rest mode as long since there is less momentum of the charging mode to absorb fully by the battery, etc.

I've seen mixed results with LiFePo4 used in Bedini SG setups for example - it would be very interesting and important if you are able to exploit their advantages in the 3 battery setup. Supposedly, lithiums do not like to be pulsed with spikes or cap dumps and are more suited for steady current, but I have also seen situations where that didn't seem to be an issue.

Btw, I did rewind a scooter motor and will post something on that later. Still doing a few mods on the Kromrey but as soon as I can, I want to run the Kromrey on that motor.

Thanks for all your posts and glad to see some others starting to take part in this project and thanks to Matt and Dave for their continued support.
Thanks Aaron,
It has been hard to build the little lithium ion packs. Don't like soldering ends of batteries. But after doing a few got the hang of it. Reading/studying the methodology, there is much quicker and effective spot welding setups. They use the thin silver strips and tack them on each battery. I will use that method as I progress to larger Tesla wall units. Jehu Garcia has very good channel if anyone needs to know.

For testing purposes just smaller 12-14 volt bundles will be safer and easy as a starting point.

I only paid $1 each for 50 of these last year plus the few I had already from old laptop battery packs.

Looking forward to the Kromrey generator, would like to learn more about it. When days increase to 26 hours and my shop doubles in size, I plan to try the ZPM and Kromrey.

Yes thanks Matt and Dave for your patience and help. To all builders "gan ba tte" (you can do it!!!) as my Japanese wife encourages me and all of us together.

wantomake
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  #3547  
Old 01-24-2018, 04:58 AM
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pictures Lithium Ion packs

Here is the three lithium ion packs to be used with the 3BGS in three battery positions.

27330255_1794536640577166_953555160_o.jpg27398559_1794536583910505_41484595_o.jpg

Will post any results when time allows me.
wantomake
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  #3548  
Old 01-24-2018, 10:08 PM
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Lithium packs

The lithium-ion packs didn't do well.

After looking at them I understand why those that use them have so many in one block. Just not enough amp hours in mine to hold up. But did take my crazy testing ideas. If I can afford hundreds then will use them in solar setup with 3BGS as backup.

Not a total waste of time.
wantomake
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  #3549  
Old 01-25-2018, 01:46 AM
2600 2600 is offline
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Coil Winding...

Tonight I wound the coils. I havenít cut off the excess and soldered yet. Currently I have 3 coil ends together under 3 lugs, then I skip a lug and the other 3 ends are together under 3 lugs. From an electrical standpoint, are the 3 ends of the 3 coils supposed to be tied together under 3 lugs? This part was baffling me as I would assume each coil wire would get itís own lug. Thank you in advance!

56F4BF33-0513-4707-8600-898BD5D883EE.jpg

BC822CF0-FFFA-49B9-93C0-89EFF95D79DE.jpg

Jameson (just like the whiskey)
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  #3550  
Old 01-25-2018, 03:51 AM
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Correction if I may

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2600 View Post
Tonight I wound the coils. I haven’t cut off the excess and soldered yet. Currently I have 3 coil ends together under 3 lugs, then I skip a lug and the other 3 ends are together under 3 lugs. From an electrical standpoint, are the 3 ends of the 3 coils supposed to be tied together under 3 lugs? This part was baffling me as I would assume each coil wire would get it’s own lug. Thank you in advance!

Attachment 20386

Attachment 20387

Jameson (just like the whiskey)
It looks like you have (1) single wire wound around each coil. No. You keep the three wires together at all times. Parallel to each other. Side by side they make one wire with three strands in it. Look at Matthew's video again, the first one.

I don't know how wide the (3) segments are on the commutator is. Open or bend back the three tabs carefully. Clean the lacquer from ends of three wires same length as the width of the 3 segments. Place that end with three wires together into the three segments. Gently bend the tabs down over the three wires. Three tabs hold the three wire ends. I used a small flat head screw driver and my hand to push it down.

Now go up to middle first rotor iron to start winding(refer to the video) the coil. As you look at it you should wind clock-wise. 40,30,30 wind all the coils with the three wires together as one trifilar wire.

Hope this helps. Matts videos really explains it in good detail.
wantomake
https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=LLG...&v=faZIszrlllI

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eFR-d_oaYsY
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Last edited by wantomake; 01-25-2018 at 04:13 AM.
  #3551  
Old 01-29-2018, 02:35 PM
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no new info

To All,
No new building or improvements over the weekend. Hope all is well with new builds here.

Will try to get to re-wiring the MY1016 generator I'm using at present. Still trying to get back to building larger Daves generator. Things always slow to dead stop in winter time for me.

Keep at it and we'll get there,
wantomake
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  #3552  
Old 01-29-2018, 06:17 PM
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Majestic81 Majestic81 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2600 View Post
Tonight I wound the coils. I havenít cut off the excess and soldered yet. Currently I have 3 coil ends together under 3 lugs, then I skip a lug and the other 3 ends are together under 3 lugs. From an electrical standpoint, are the 3 ends of the 3 coils supposed to be tied together under 3 lugs? This part was baffling me as I would assume each coil wire would get itís own lug. Thank you in advance!

Attachment 20386

Attachment 20387

Jameson (just like the whiskey)
Check the correct diagram here
http://www.energeticforum.com/307553-post3532.html
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  #3553  
Old 01-30-2018, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majestic81 View Post
2600,
I thought you got the winding part as far as the diagram shows. But you asked about each coil getting it's own tab or lug. I'm sure I answered your question correctly. You've got correct winding pattern just had the tab connections question.

Hope my answers helped,
wantomake
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  #3554  
Old 01-30-2018, 01:06 AM
2600 2600 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wantomake View Post
2600,
I thought you got the winding part as far as the diagram shows. But you asked about each coil getting it's own tab or lug. I'm sure I answered your question correctly. You've got correct winding pattern just had the tab connections question.

Hope my answers helped,
wantomake
Majestic81, thanks for the diagram!

Wantomake, yes you answered my questions about winding the coil properly. I ended up buying 3 spools of wire and pulling the 3 strands of wire off the spools as I wound the coils. All of the 100 total turns on each side of the rotor are continuous trifilar wound.

Jameson
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  #3555  
Old 01-31-2018, 12:30 PM
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Hi all
it took me and a friend something like 5 hours of work but we finally made it. I was trying to avoid it so many months now but I run out of excuses. Three strands parallel of 24 Awg. Let's see what comes next!
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File Type: jpg image(1).jpg (204.7 KB, 61 views)
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  #3556  
Old 01-31-2018, 03:22 PM
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Looks good

Quote:
Originally Posted by liber63 View Post
Hi all
it took me and a friend something like 5 hours of work but we finally made it. I was trying to avoid it so many months now but I run out of excuses. Three strands parallel of 24 Awg. Let's see what comes next!
Looks as if you are about to see the wonders this project can teach and present to you. It always amazes me to just sit and watch this setup run and run without using and decreasing battery bank voltage.

Each step taken is a challenge but always good to see results that encourages toward the next steps.

wantomake
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  #3557  
Old 02-04-2018, 03:03 PM
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Progress

Still at it. Trying to get generator rewound. Testing a multi-filar parallel series connected wire. Not sure if heat will be an issue as was with the prime mover that was wound with many strands multi-filar winding. But finally wound it the correct way.

No big news just checking in.
wantomake
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  #3558  
Old 02-06-2018, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post
Can't wait to see the look on your face when you engage that big
multi-strand series connected generator coil that speeds up the whole
system, drops power consumption while putting out 30-50watts.

I made it back from the dead. Finally. 3 weeks of hell with the flu
but I am back at it this week.

PS I have been running my 3 battery system now for 6 weeks even while
I was sick. The last test revealed that the Alum got below 50 degrees
and all I was able to get out of my 4 pack of batteries was 480watt/hrs
or 120watt/hrs per 16ah 12v battery.

This is the first time I ran it all of the way down to 10.7vdc from a full
charge. I was not running the mod mtr, I was using an inverter powering
a light bulb at 20watts. It is a bright LED bulb. Over a 24hr test.

Not very significant but I am running it.

Stats for this 16ah 12v battery go like this.

12v is the running average from 13v to 11v and using the C/20 rate
I can safely draw 800ma at 12v for 20 hours. This is

.800 X 12 = 9.6w X 20hr = 192w/h theoretical but in reality the true
amount should not be more than a 70 percent usage or 192w/h in
theory times .7 or

192 X .7 = 134w/h true watt hrs that leaves a safety margin.

Remember this is the rating for a single battery and I have 4 of them
ganged up in parallel.





Hey Bro.
Sorry to hear you were sick. I got a stomach virus last night and stayed up all night with pains.

I only got one side of the larger My1016 genny done last week. It's a tough going soldering those wires back to the beginning of other wires and arranging them so they don't short on each other. Used a hot glue gun to insulate them from each other. But if the generator heats up that glue will melt also. May re-do that side and get a bottle of liquid tape that withstands high temps.

I'm very anxious to finish this generator to have a poor man's version of Dave's larger generator upright build.

Good test results. I hope to have some results this week to share.

wantomake
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  #3559  
Old 02-07-2018, 12:11 PM
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Hi all.
Last days i was trying to put together a flywheel (like Chas Cambell) and 3BGS with modified motor and MY1020 as gen. I 've not concluded yet but with the setup i have mod motor has not enough power to accelerate the large flywheel to high rate. I managed around 500 cycles per minute for the flywhell, around 1100 for motor, with 12volt battery. I am afraid to put 24 volt because my setup is not very strong as you can see at the pictures. I think i will rebuilt a new one.

Wantomake, a lot of people get sick this time of the year, myself also, but getting better. Do you mean you rewound MY1016 motor, or you are referring to the new gen you are making.
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File Type: jpg IMG_20180207_132541_c.jpg (75.6 KB, 46 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20180207_132629_c.jpg (87.3 KB, 45 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20180207_132507_c.jpg (69.6 KB, 42 views)
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  #3560  
Old 02-07-2018, 04:34 PM
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350 watt size

Quote:
Originally Posted by liber63 View Post
Hi all.
Last days i was trying to put together a flywheel (like Chas Cambell) and 3BGS with modified motor and MY1020 as gen. I 've not concluded yet but with the setup i have mod motor has not enough power to accelerate the large flywheel to high rate. I managed around 500 cycles per minute for the flywhell, around 1100 for motor, with 12volt battery. I am afraid to put 24 volt because my setup is not very strong as you can see at the pictures. I think i will rebuilt a new one.

Wantomake, a lot of people get sick this time of the year, myself also, but getting better. Do you mean you rewound MY1016 motor, or you are referring to the new gen you are making.
Hello liber63,
Good looking setup. Flywheel is understandable.

I have the my1016 250 watt motor as prime mover. Matt motor modified. The my1016 350 watt motor is my generator that I'm rewiring. It's a little longer than the 250 watt size.
I stopped building the larger Dave's upright generator until get more finances and time permits. So far it's all wood, even the rotor will be hardwood I'm thinking. My shop is simple and small so no lathe to turn a rotor out of hard plastic material.

Thanks for your update. Good to see others building here.

wantomake
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  #3561  
Old 02-10-2018, 12:12 PM
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Testing wiring

To All,
The coffee is hot, the rain is here, and Saturday morning rules.

The my1016 generator rewind wasn't a success. The power output was very low. The prime mover pulled 6 amps that is doubled from before the rewinding.

But I never stop with just one try. I think if the motor was a slip ring setup to produce AC there would be more continuous output. But pulsing with a commutator to dc slows the energy output.

Back to rethink this wiring. But the coffee was a success.
wantomake
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  #3562  
Old 02-11-2018, 10:50 PM
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Without the proper sleeves to protect the enamel, razor sharps is
the microscopic pierce thru.

I rewound one 4 times. On another note concerning the lathe needed
to make circles. here is what I did one time. You can cut the shape out
with a jigsaw then secure the main center shaft so it can be freely
turned then by hand you may grind.

This is from the magnet motor revelation thread. Keep it turned on,
turned up and never roll over, think.

My perfect circle is here, I said lathe but I ground it instead.
Around 15" Dia 1" thick hard plastic. Lexan is best

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=W9DL9g1z3t0



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Last edited by BroMikey; 03-24-2018 at 12:46 PM.
  #3563  
Old 02-11-2018, 11:07 PM
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Another way is to use a bench grinder and mount the disc on a drill. Ease it into the grinder slowly and it will grind down until it is almost round. Then use sandpaper lying on a flat surface to finish it. Good luck. rockhound
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  #3564  
Old 02-12-2018, 01:30 AM
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For ten years I rough cut my rotors with a Sabre saw or a ban saw ( depending on size of rotor. My bench grinder is mounted in the bench with one grinding wheel hanging over space. I remove this grinding wheel and mount my rotor. Now I can spin it at high speed using my bench grinder. I have lots of different tools that can be used to give me a perfect circle at that point. I simple wood rasp will get it very close, or there is something that looks like a cheese grater that works GREAT on plastic or wood, and then different grades of sand paper. There are a couple of wedge shaped things I made to put sand paper on that I could slide in to a specific distance to give me the exact diameter of rotor I want. I’ve talked about this before, and even posted videos, but those are gone now.

Dave
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Last edited by Turion; 02-12-2018 at 04:44 PM.
  #3565  
Old 02-12-2018, 07:10 AM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpOCWrKrkYI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyhjdC1-vHw
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Last edited by BroMikey; 07-14-2018 at 08:32 AM.
  #3566  
Old 02-12-2018, 12:25 PM
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Good advice

Thanks to All,
That's good advice/ideas to cut the rotor and get perfect diameter.

Can't post much this morning, taken wife to dentist.

Hope to get rotor diameter and thickness resolved today.

wantomake
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  #3567  
Old 02-20-2018, 03:55 PM
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Correct

Bm,
Exactly correct on a perfect center hole. Turion stated the rotor disc will be pulled by the coil cores as each magnet passes. Therefore wabble in the rotor will happen. The center hole must fit tight and I plan to place a smaller disc in front and back of rotor to hold it more securely. At least that's what I noticed Dave had done with his generator build.

The plan is to use hard wood for a good solid build.
wantomake
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  #3568  
Old 03-05-2018, 01:06 PM
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Too busy

To All,
I post over on the Newman motor finally explained thread about my busy life trying to sell and buy a home.

But I'm still (when my wife let's me) studying and building Arduino to catch up to a possible switching battery banks of the 3BGS. Learning C or C++ isn't a walk in the park but will try.

Nothing to post about now or for a while. Just an update.
wantomake
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  #3569  
Old 03-05-2018, 07:52 PM
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It is good to lock one's self in by his own words. I too am waiting for
parts from Gyina oops China such as the hub flange. For a year or more
all I could find is a hub for $70- $200 and that seemed to high. Knowing
now how to talk Chinese I found what I knew was there for my build yet
was not finding these parts.

$3 for a small hub and bigger ones a whopping $5 - $10. The CNC and
robot type machinery have what is needed to spin a simple rotor without
selling off your gold bullion.

It takes time to order from half way around the globe to get that poor
boy deal. Ain't nothin goin on but the rent. As many of you know the winder
I built last year sits outside so now that the weather is in the 60's I can
be thinking about winding my coils again the easy way.

I have looked at wood rotors and went the other way using tablesaw
blades. I want to run 3000rpms to 4000rpms. The saw blades are hard
to drill but once you have it done you can't change the shape of that
true form. Saw blades when hit ring like a bell because the metal has
a very precise mix. It is way harder to change the shape than stainless.

The rotors are tempered. I know this is way different than Turions
build but you know what they say? "Variety is the spice of life"

This may only be of interest to those who want to stay at the very low
price range. Another point is that the hubs cylindrical projection has
a measurement (the ones I am buying) of 16mm. This is important
if you tool up say a fine tooth paneling saw blade because she fits
right on the hubs.

No machine shops and all of the big prices. Only for the poor boys club.

How are you doing over there Dave?
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Last edited by BroMikey; 03-05-2018 at 08:00 PM.
  #3570  
Old 03-15-2018, 06:11 PM
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Arduino and houses

Arduino and buying and selling a home have nothing in common.

Been trying to sell and buy a different home at same time. Painful. Therefore no time to build or test.

But still I'm studying/ buying Arduino to use to switch battery positions. Started out with basic setup to learn and grow with. The C++ language is a challenge. But the Arduino website is very helpful for beginners like me.

It only takes a small table area to setup and run different setups. Got the 8-channel 12v relay module yesterday. But its not as hugh or what I thought it to be. Not sure the relays can handle the marine size batteries I use on the 3BGS. I may need to connect them to larger more heavy duty relays for switching the batteries around.

Will see as I'm able(?) to do any real testing,
wantomake
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