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Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

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  #3031  
Old 10-25-2013, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a.king21 View Post
The self charging phenomenon of a conditioned battery has some "rules".
1 "Use it or lose it".
The phenomenon unfortunately goes away if the battery is left alone for several days. Missing this point could explain some wide discrepancies in testing.
ie you go away for 2 weeks, put the same circuit on and it performs badly.
2 Once conditioned a battery charges up with conventional charging much quicker. So there's a double wammy effect. I personally have charged a battery bank of 4 heavy duty batteries with nothing more than a 12 volt power supply.
3 To condition a battery requires cold electricity. The terminals feel icy to the touch.

Bearing these points in mind could be the difference between a massive success in testing or just a marginal success.

Turion: You once had a huge effect when charging your father's battery array. Can you remember the circuit you used. ie what was the configuration of your father's battery bank? The info may give us some clues. If you have already posted the circuit diagram could you point me in the correct direction please?
how odd aking your bullet point 2 is actually at variance with Bedini who seems to think a conditioned battery charges up slightly less efficently on conventional chargers .. still its uncharted on the map isnt it ... "There be dragons"
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  #3032  
Old 10-25-2013, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by a.king21 View Post
Turion: You once had a huge effect when charging your father's battery array. Can you remember the circuit you used. ie what was the configuration of your father's battery bank? The info may give us some clues. If you have already posted the circuit diagram could you point me in the correct direction please?
Not to speak for David but I am sure it was just the simple 3bgs with the output to the charging battery bank.

Matt
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  #3033  
Old 10-25-2013, 04:55 PM
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Duncan, I don't want anyone to do homework for me, I'm doing that myself don't worry about that. I was trying to understand where you are getting at. Apparently there is resonance in batteries, and according to Bearden and others it's in the Mhz range. I have been sweeping frequencies up and down too a while back, by pulsing the batts with a mosfet up to the Mhz range. I don't know how you connected things together in that vid but I couldn't find a resonant point back then.

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  #3034  
Old 10-25-2013, 05:02 PM
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you are correct Matt David told me the same thing at the conference .. it was the original set up with the original motor that he took to his Dads place.
seems he had a couple of really good "bad batteries" that kept going for a long long time ... in fact he thought they were pretty much indestructable.
you can imagine then his dissapointment when eventually it all stopped happening. I dont remember what motor it was .. certainly not a razor
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  #3035  
Old 10-25-2013, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Mario View Post
Duncan, I don't want anyone to do homework for me, I'm doing that myself don't worry about that. I was trying to understand where you are getting at. Apparently there is resonance in batteries, and according to Bearden and others it's in the Mhz range. I have been sweeping frequencies up and down too a while back, by pulsing the batts with a mosfet up to the Mhz range. I don't know how you connected things together in that vid but I couldn't find a resonant point back then.

Mario
home work only joking Mario and to be quite honest I cant get on firm ground with the battery resonance theory either .. except that it is there and I would suggest an extreamly high transfer impedance is the deciding factor as to if you can see it .. or not. In that particular case the battery was simply showing parellel resonance ... scope ... functon gen ... all in parellel . on that ocasion I just wanted to demostrate that a lead acid battery did have resonant conditions . I then went on to build this circuit of ozzies
The Callanan's Infinite Power Supply (IPS) : Full tests report by JL Naudin
The only reason being I wanted to put the battery in the middle leg of that transformer so I could adjust frequency in a series condition . I then did pretty much what I have just described to Matt .. I discoved that there is a cascade of resonant points ... you can see the trouble I had to hold resonance in the first video ... series resonance was much harder to find and hold so I had no chance of getting that on video .. I did post a picture of the circuit cobbled together in a lunch box somewhere however.
I'm not saying with 100% certainty I have everything covered here .. but you need to be aware of the possibility
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  #3036  
Old 10-25-2013, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post
Duncan, I don't want anyone to do homework for me, I'm doing that myself don't worry about that. I was trying to understand where you are getting at. Apparently there is resonance in batteries, and according to Bearden and others it's in the Mhz range. I have been sweeping frequencies up and down too a while back, by pulsing the batts with a mosfet up to the Mhz range. I don't know how you connected things together in that vid but I couldn't find a resonant point back then.

Mario
Mhz range … perhaps ? Its very hard to keep on one track you see there are two types of resonance to wit harmonic resonance and stochastic resonance each has two Aetheric components at 90deg and 180deg one predominately electromagnetic and the other predominately electrostatic . The only one we are taught about is the electromagnetic wave .. It is predominately a sky wave whilst the electrostatic content is predominately ground creating magnetic current (tulleric). So you see there are now two resonant states and four quadrants in play .. it gets very quickly out of hand and folks tend to try and force resonant harmonics or some such standard dogma on an unknown situation. So given that there is a cascade
there is then this to consider … if the resonant state is in the MHz range ...and I concur I was finding resonant markers at 3.5 MHz + which was the limit of my function generator .. (although I have built a 25Mhz one now). Then a simple DC motor can't get anyway near that. The only conclusion I could then come to is a lead acid battery rings … like a bell up through the frequencies.
Which brings this to the forefront
Marcus Reid Crystal Converter Battery - Casimir Effect - Part 1 - YouTube
except we know it isn't electromagnetic .. rather electrostatic (because its a ground wave) however It still doesn't tell us what quadrant we are receiving from . And doesn't really help anyone to hold that sweet spot (if you don't want to call it resonance) also I suggest if you listen to this carefully you'll also hear the battery changing polarity ,, which of course everyone is making much ado about
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Last edited by Duncan; 10-25-2013 at 06:31 PM.
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  #3037  
Old 10-25-2013, 06:33 PM
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My dad's battery bank setup was entirely "home made" He had two long copper coated grounding rods secured to an 8 foot piece of plywood. (one was + and the other was -) The plywood was attached to the metal wall of his shop. In front of it was his row of 6 volt batteries. Two batteries were connected in series, and then each of his battery pairs was connected to each of the two grounding rods. (There were nine pairs, or 18 batteries. I do not know the amp hours of those batteries, but they were not small. I just called my dad to find out and he doesn't know and is too tired to go out and look. Power from his solar system on the roof was fed into one end of the copper rods through a voltage regulator. We disconnected the regulator from the rods and hooked up the 3BGS directly to the rods off battery 3. So all the battery pairs in his setup were in parallel with battery 3. It was the standard 3BGS circuit with a whole lot of batteries in parallel with battery 3. That's it. At the other end of his two rods he had an inverter connected, but we also disconnected that for our test.

Dave
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  #3038  
Old 10-25-2013, 07:11 PM
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Please forgive me for saying this Duncan, but I must. When dealing with multiple resonant harmonic frequencies, at resonance the wave isn't sine, its square. Technically it could be any shape, I see square waves even at resonance in my systems, I again point out the fact that I am dealing with "multiple harmonic frequencies" I restate that to make it clear that there is a huge difference between single frequency resonance, and multiple resonant harmonics operating at a common resonant frequency. I personally think the latter has more to do with whats going on in the 3BGS, this owing to the connections between batteries and motor.

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Ding! Ding! Ding!
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  #3039  
Old 10-25-2013, 07:20 PM
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Skeptic and all,
Here are two short videos from my setup of the water pump test. The first is the voltage readings on my batteries. The second is the pump running and pumping water with all batteries connected in parallel so that any voltage in all of the batteries can be used to keep the pump going.

Water Pump Test 1 - YouTube

Water Pump Test 2 - YouTube
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  #3040  
Old 10-25-2013, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Duncan View Post
how odd aking your bullet point 2 is actually at variance with Bedini who seems to think a conditioned battery charges up slightly less efficently on conventional chargers .. still its uncharted on the map isnt it ... "There be dragons"
Yes, but Bedini uses a massive cap dump. I'm talking about pure radiant energy without the cap dump.
I've just built a mechanical Tesla switch type cap dump charger and it messes my ou batteries up! So remember there are two Bedini ways to charge batts.
1 Pure radiant aka 3 battery setup aka school girl motor-gen and
2 The "Tesla charger" way where he charges a cap and dumps 180 degrees later.
Incidentally the resonant point is........ 2 SECONDS!!! (with the Tesla charger).
ie one massive cap dump every 2 seconds.
And the best batteries are.... Gel cells! (Now where have we heard that before lol)
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  #3041  
Old 10-25-2013, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
he uses this charging method fed through a KW/H meter and switched capacitor bank
thought you guys might like this info ( althought i posted it on another thread )

Team uses forest waste to develop cheaper, greener supercapacitors

Quote:
"The performance of our biochar materials is comparable to the performance of today's advanced carbon materials, including carbon nanotubes and graphenes," Jiang said. "We can achieve comparable performance with much less cost and probably much lower environmental costs."




Quote:
This corncob-biochar supercapacitor generates enough energy to power an LED bulb. Wood biochar is easier to use in large-scale applications and has more energy potential.

Read more at:
don't have to worry too much about capacitor failure
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Last edited by MonsieurM; 10-25-2013 at 09:45 PM.
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  #3042  
Old 10-25-2013, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by tachyoncatcher View Post
Ding! Ding! Ding!
I repeat IMHO we are not dealing with resonance but stochastic resonance .. we are not dealing with harmonics .. at all , anything to do with harmonics does not apply ! Nor does anything to do with normal transverse electricity. And even if and I say IF we were ..
just as Fourier used an infinite sum of Sine waves to recreate a square wave, you can also use an infinite sum of square waves to make a sine wave. .. you cannot however do both simultaneously
unless you have discovered a whole new concept for Fourier transforms … and that I really would be interested in. So if you think the sum of an infinite number of square (and it is infinite because its resonant) waves can produce anything other than a sine wave (never mind a wave of any shape) especially if your going to show me “technically” bring it on that really would be ding ding ding in fact I wait with baited breath . It seems to have rung your bell Randy perhaps you can point me to where this shining enlightenment is that erfinder has discovered ?
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  #3043  
Old 10-25-2013, 09:47 PM
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thought you guys might like this info ( althought i posted it on another thread )

Team uses forest waste to develop cheaper, greener supercapacitors









don't have to worry too much about capacitor failure
Wow I am making biochar from cherry wood as we speak. LOL imagine that I am going to have to give it try.

Matt
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  #3044  
Old 10-25-2013, 09:50 PM
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just out of curiosity ( and ignorance ) can't Square Wave and Stochastic Resonance work together

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...55123115,d.bGE

Quote:
Square-wave-driven stochastic resonance.

---------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
Wow I am making biochar from cherry wood as we speak. LOL imagine that I am going to have to give it try.

Matt
glad you like
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  #3045  
Old 10-25-2013, 10:09 PM
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thought you guys might like this info ( althought i posted it on another thread )

Team uses forest waste to develop cheaper, greener supercapacitors









don't have to worry too much about capacitor failure
Bad news Gordon ... we'll probably get this thing sorted just in time to see the end of the lead acid battery !
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  #3046  
Old 10-25-2013, 10:11 PM
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just out of curiosity ( and ignorance ) can't Square Wave and Stochastic Resonance work together

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...55123115,d.bGE

forgot to add :

Quote:
In bistable systems subjected to both periodic and random forcing, the output signal-to-noise ratio may be improved by an increase in the input noise

... For the square-wave periodic forcing we extend Kramers’s escape-rate theory to analyze this so-called stochastic phenomenon
.
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  #3047  
Old 10-25-2013, 10:59 PM
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forgot to add :



By my understanding yes Gordon and I don't say otherwise , however if you have (as we do) exclusively square waves (sharp pulse actually) because the armature has been made so … then the only composition that can be made at resonance is a sine wave . Infinite number of square waves in = sine wave out, Unless some ones going to upend that basic law ?
What the composition of that wave is (the modulation if you like) is a very different question.
Which isn't in the text books I've read .. so far . Mind you ,Neither is the linear wave, electrostatics , or tulleric current . so on those subjects I simply have to experiment and wing it like everybody else! I have some Ideas but they are only half baked
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  #3048  
Old 10-25-2013, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Duncan View Post
By my understanding yes Gordon and I don't say otherwise , however if you have (as we do) exclusively square waves (sharp pulse actually) because the armature has been made so … then the only composition that can be made at resonance is a sine wave . Infinite number of square waves in = sine wave out, Unless some ones going to upend that basic law ?
What the composition of that wave (the modulation) if you like is a very different question.
Which isn't in the text books I've read .. so far . Mind you ,Neither is the linear wave, electrostatics , or telluric current . so on those subjects I simply have to experiment and wing it like everybody else! I have some Ideas but they are only half baked
thank you for making it simple to understand .... not as acknowledgeable as most of you

just to recap from what i read from one of the successful experiments :

Quote:
He had two long copper coated grounding rods


Turion
how deep were they .... and does he have a water line close by .... just wondering

Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_(electricity)

In some telegraph and power transmission circuits, the earth itself can be used as one conductor of the circuit, saving the cost of installing a separate return conductor (see single-wire earth return).
also :

Quote:
Later, when telephony began to replace telegraphy, it was found that the currents in the earth induced by power systems, electrical railways, other telephone and telegraph circuits, and natural sources including lightning caused unacceptable interference to the audio signals, and the two-wire or 'metallic circuit' system was reintroduced around 1883.[2]
what is unacceptable in some instances can be very acceptable in others

ps: we know now that biochar can be a supercapacitor ..... earth what an amazing circuit
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  #3049  
Old 10-26-2013, 12:25 AM
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MonsieurM,

Sorry if my post was unclear. My dad had two copper coated grounding rods mounted to the plywood as if they were buss bars, and batteries connected to them. Neither were grounded to the earth.

Still pumping water, so not done with phase one of testing.

Dave
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  #3050  
Old 10-26-2013, 10:21 AM
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Scalar charger

Matt, I sent a you a pm, but there was no option for an attachment? How can I send you the schematic?

Mario
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  #3051  
Old 10-26-2013, 11:02 AM
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The use of copper rods as a bus bar is quite significant in my opinion because it lessens the resistance in the circuit and therefore minimizes circuit losses.
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  #3052  
Old 10-26-2013, 11:10 AM
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I agree about stochastic resonance. Benitez introduced "spark gap energy" pulsed through a hv low pf fast capacitor into a battery charging circuit. In my opinion the 3bgs system has the same effect using the razor scooter motor as the stochastic frequency generator. The dc charging system therefore has radiant energy superimposed on it. Has anyone taken a scope shot of the output? I know when I tried the 3 bgs my gel cell batteries supercharged on conventional charging the next time round. (Just as Turion's dad found.)(Still waiting for my couplings from China).
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  #3053  
Old 10-26-2013, 01:59 PM
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HOW MANY people here are experimenting with flipping the MAGNETIC polarity on a battery? We need to see what happens when we do that, and we need a system for doing it consistently as well as a means of knowing it has happened.
THAT would seem to me to be a clear objective and an important next step. I know it is what Matt, Luther and I have been working on. I know Randy is in there too, but has been under the weather. We can DO this guys. We are so close and now is NOT the time to get sidetracked. We KNOW magic happens when battery 3 flips polarity. Let's isolate that part of the circuit and see if we can control it.

Dave
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  #3054  
Old 10-26-2013, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
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MonsieurM,

Sorry if my post was unclear. My dad had two copper coated grounding rods mounted to the plywood as if they were buss bars, and batteries connected to them. Neither were grounded to the earth.

Still pumping water, so not done with phase one of testing.

Dave
Thank you Turion for clarifying my "misdirection" ....

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Originally Posted by a.king21 View Post
The use of copper rods as a bus bar is quite significant in my opinion because it lessens the resistance in the circuit and therefore minimizes circuit losses.
i went and checked a bit on busbars : ( most of you already know that )


Quote:
Design and placement[edit]

Earth (safety grounding) busbars are typically bare and bolted directly onto any metal chassis of their enclosure. Busbars may be enclosed in a metal housing, in the form of bus duct or busway, segregated-phase bus, or isolated-phase bus.


Busbar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
... What is the difference between a neutral busbar and an earth busbar

Quote:
The neutral wire was grounded as a safety measure. The thinking was, if someone touched an electrical appliance and at the same time touched some metal in the house, a kitchen faucet for example, they would not get a shock. In the past, those two wires were all that was used.
Unfortunately it turned out that in real life, relying on the grounded neutral wasn't really preventing dangerous shocks. As more and more things were turned on in the house (Lights, Radios, TVs, etc.), the neutral wire was really carrying current and so the voltage at the neutral wire was often above the earth ground. People were getting shocks if they touched something that was really grounded (plumbing is always grounded because the incoming water pipe is buried in the ground) while handling electrical appliances (filling an electric kettle for example).
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  #3055  
Old 10-26-2013, 07:16 PM
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Post 5BGS running

Dear all

I got the system ready to run.

.....................installing conditions........................running 20'......after rest 20'

Source Batt 1: new AMG 12V/20Ah...12,66V............12.04V...........12.33V
Source Batt 2: new AMG 12V/20Ah...12.62V............12.00V...........12.37V
Transd Batt 3: old car FLA 12V/50Ah flat, -1V..........-7.7V............-2.2V
Transd Batt 4: old car FLA 12V/50AH flat, +5V.........+5.5V............+5.2V
Buffer Batt 5: new AMG 12V/20Ah 12.64V..............13.10V...........12.84V

Motor: of the shelf MY1016, 24V, 250V...................10.3V
Generator: of the shelf MY1016, 24V, 300W, driven with chain
Light Bulb: 7W / 12V............................................9.3 V (0.9A?)

Inverter: 12VDC / 230VAC 300W
Light Bulb: 25W / 230V

Several runs without the chain and balancing brought the Source Batt 1 and 2 down to 12.4V.

The chain drive ist quite loud, but with input 10.3V not at full rating speed of 2450 rpm at 24V.

I tried to balance the system with the 2 light bulbs, resulting 25W load on inverter, 7W on generator to get the volt changes on Batts 1,2 and 5 minimized.

Results:
The Source Batts 1 and 2 are going down slowly, from 12.10 V to 12.04V during 20minutes.
The buffer Batt 5 is going up slowly, from 12.90V to 13.10 V
The changes of the readings were faster at the beginning, then slowlier.

The Transducer Batt 3 rest stable in minus Voltage. Voltage measured over Transducer 3 and 4 together is 13.2V.

Turning the inverter on with the switch together with the 25W bulb just after starting results still in a slightly higher motor speed.

Regards and
cubalibre
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 131026 5BGS running.JPG (206.3 KB, 33 views)
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  #3056  
Old 10-26-2013, 11:37 PM
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Watch only the buffer battery. If it is going up, add loads to the buffer battery until you get it to level off. If it is going down, decrease loads on the buffer battery. This is how you balance the loads. The buffer MUST stay level or you will lose voltage in the primaries. You should also start with around 12.2 in the buffer.

Dave
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Last edited by Turion; 10-27-2013 at 01:40 AM.
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  #3057  
Old 10-27-2013, 04:28 PM
cubalibre cubalibre is offline
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Thumbs up

@Dave
Thank you. I will try this during next week or so.
Cheers, cubalibre
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  #3058  
Old 10-27-2013, 08:36 PM
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Battery Pump Test part 3

Here are the results of my battery pump test using the five batteries wired in parallel and drawing the primaries down to 12.07 volts.

Water Pump 3 - YouTube

Dave
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  #3059  
Old 10-28-2013, 01:39 PM
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Dave,

Looks good! Can't wait to see how much is pumped using 3BGS.
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  #3060  
Old 10-29-2013, 07:52 AM
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HOW MANY people here are experimenting with flipping the MAGNETIC polarity on a battery?
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