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  #601  
Old 11-05-2014, 08:31 AM
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Waveforms and Error

This should help with puzzling error. This is nothing like a BITT. It is a wave shape that we all have become accustom to for 100 years.



I don't like that one as well as this one. This one is the wave in a Bi-Toroidal transformer.



I will be posting wave forms so I can get an idea what others are seeing with the BITT.




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  #602  
Old 11-06-2014, 02:16 AM
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Waveforms

Transformer wave phasing








This is the Bi-Toroid wave phasing

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  #603  
Old 11-06-2014, 04:31 AM
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Interpretation of wave forms on the scope

If you understand this already, Mike, then I apologize in advance. But, I think this comment may be helpful since you asked the question, "Is this a normal transformer?" I took that to mean a normal wave form on the scope for a standard transformer.

If you hook up one lead on the scope to monitor the voltage across a load and a second lead to monitor the current through a load AND apply an arbitrary varying voltage to the load what you observe will fall into one of several categories. So, to better understand what you would observe, let's further and temporarily add one more restriction or factor to the setup. Let's say that we are applying a "PURE SINE WAVE" voltage to the load.

Now we turn to the actual possibilities. Let's use the phase relationship to break down the possibilities. From where the VOLTAGE crosses the midline, going from negative to positive to the point where the VOLTAGE again crosses the zero point going from negative to positive represents 360 degrees. It will have crossed going from positive to negative ONE time in between those two points and being a PURE sine wave that point will be at the 180 degree mark. What we are looking for is the point where the CURRENT trace goes from negative to positive and we will express that in degrees, 0, 0 to 90, 90 to 180, 180 to 270, 270 to 360 as a LAGGING current or we can go BACK and say the current is LEADING the voltage. 270 to 360 LAGGING would be 90 to 0 degrees LEADING, etc.

Now one more simplification. IF this lag or lead is between 90 and 270 we will SAY the polarity of leads on the scope must be somehow reversed and we will physically reverse the leads or use the features of the scope to invert the signal so everything is in the range of 90 to 0 current LEADING voltage, 0 degrees - the voltage and current are in phase, or thirdly 0 to 90 degrees current LAGGING voltage.

It is hard to explain all this in words without a diagram, but this is the way I think and the way I process information. So, if you follow me, there are really, at this simple level ONLY 3 possibilities and each one has specific meanings.

First and easiest: "0 degrees" Current neither leads nor lags voltage. The LOAD is functioning as a pure resistor. If there are any capacitors or inductors in the load they are somehow in balance. This is called "resonance" and we don't usually or really care whether or not that is or is not TRUE resonance, we just call it resonance. In the case of "theory" and "science" it accepted on faith that it IS true. Blah blah blah.

Next: "current lagging voltage 0 to 90 degrees" Inductance is dominant in the load. If you want "resonance" you need to add more capacitance.

Third: "current leading voltage 0 to 90 (or 90 to 0) degrees. Capacitance is dominant in the load. If you want "resonance" you need to reduce capacitance or "add" inductance.

That's all there is to it. It doesn't matter what kind of transformer or coil or combination of them that you have. There may be a few "niceties" that could be added to the explanation, but I think they are minor.

I hope that helps.
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  #604  
Old 11-06-2014, 06:48 AM
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Explanation

Yes Wayne I follow you completely.

0-90-180-270-360 and how current may or may not lead or lag in an inductor capacitive tank Good to hear someone take the time to put this out there.

When we veer from the simplistic review of pure AC in a coil we should look at radio frequency circuitry.

Like you pointed out. For over a hundred years men have tuned coils using capacitors forming a tank or a relationship of current to voltage to get the desired effect.

So any inductor can be made to have leading or lagging voltage or current.

However as we continue to magnify the differences between the regular transformer and the bi-toroid I think we will find that using similar test procedures for both types of transformers, very different results are produced.

Whatever the difference is we must apply the same rules to each unit to compare results because like you pointed out anyone can tune any inductor to show almost anything they want, within reason.

Good point, it has been going around in the attic and I just didn't think to put this all into words.

Still there is much left unsaid.

Mike





Quote:
Originally Posted by wayne.ct View Post
If you understand this already, Mike, then I apologize in advance. But, I think this comment may be helpful since you asked the question, "Is this a normal transformer?" I took that to mean a normal wave form on the scope for a standard transformer.

If you hook up one lead on the scope to monitor the voltage across a load and a second lead to monitor the current through a load AND apply an arbitrary varying voltage to the load what you observe will fall into one of several categories. So, to better understand what you would observe, let's further and temporarily add one more restriction or factor to the setup. Let's say that we are applying a "PURE SINE WAVE" voltage to the load.

Now we turn to the actual possibilities. Let's use the phase relationship to break down the possibilities. From where the VOLTAGE crosses the midline, going from negative to positive to the point where the VOLTAGE again crosses the zero point going from negative to positive represents 360 degrees. It will have crossed going from positive to negative ONE time in between those two points and being a PURE sine wave that point will be at the 180 degree mark. What we are looking for is the point where the CURRENT trace goes from negative to positive and we will express that in degrees, 0, 0 to 90, 90 to 180, 180 to 270, 270 to 360 as a LAGGING current or we can go BACK and say the current is LEADING the voltage. 270 to 360 LAGGING would be 90 to 0 degrees LEADING, etc.

Now one more simplification. IF this lag or lead is between 90 and 270 we will SAY the polarity of leads on the scope must be somehow reversed and we will physically reverse the leads or use the features of the scope to invert the signal so everything is in the range of 90 to 0 current LEADING voltage, 0 degrees - the voltage and current are in phase, or thirdly 0 to 90 degrees current LAGGING voltage.

It is hard to explain all this in words without a diagram, but this is the way I think and the way I process information. So, if you follow me, there are really, at this simple level ONLY 3 possibilities and each one has specific meanings.

First and easiest: "0 degrees" Current neither leads nor lags voltage. The LOAD is functioning as a pure resistor. If there are any capacitors or inductors in the load they are somehow in balance. This is called "resonance" and we don't usually or really care whether or not that is or is not TRUE resonance, we just call it resonance. In the case of "theory" and "science" it accepted on faith that it IS true. Blah blah blah.

Next: "current lagging voltage 0 to 90 degrees" Inductance is dominant in the load. If you want "resonance" you need to add more capacitance.

Third: "current leading voltage 0 to 90 (or 90 to 0) degrees. Capacitance is dominant in the load. If you want "resonance" you need to reduce capacitance or "add" inductance.

That's all there is to it. It doesn't matter what kind of transformer or coil or combination of them that you have. There may be a few "niceties" that could be added to the explanation, but I think they are minor.

I hope that helps.
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  #605  
Old 11-06-2014, 08:32 AM
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Phase Shift

This first wave I got tonight is with no load and no tuning caps.




This next wave is fuzzy because I can't get the scope to settle down but this is a loaded wave with 4 large tuning caps. 3 on the primary and 1 on the two secondaries. Pretty crappy AAA? DOG?

Of course the input wave is on the bottom.

Strange wave on the output.




Mike
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  #606  
Old 11-06-2014, 10:12 AM
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Question

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This next wave is fuzzy because I can't get the scope to settle down but this is a loaded wave with 4 large tuning caps. 3 on the primary and 1 on the two secondaries. Pretty crappy AAA? DOG?
Not sure what I'm looking at there Mike.

As Dave mentioned, your input signal seems a little distorted. Are you still using a Variac at 60Hz for your source signal?
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  #607  
Old 11-07-2014, 02:08 AM
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Looping

Hey Dave

Here is the video you requested of Cleans Looping experiments.

If you did your homework on Clean you would have already watched 39a,39b,39c,39d,39e I did post them here on this page.

He starts with fast saturating dc pulses and changes to the zero crossing circuit. Enjoy the ride. It is very real. Laser Saber has done this with smaller circuits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzE-p0GJb_Q







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  #608  
Old 11-07-2014, 02:28 AM
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Diagrams





Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.clean View Post
Hi everyone thankyou, but i just hope to live up to the expectations now

one thing i know for sure, anytime i have ever taken the positive off the battery, the system totally stops, and here with this unique setup, it kept going, so im optimistic.

it is very hard to replicate the effect, but im trying to systematize the process, there is a VERY fine setting on signal gen, and to tell you the truth im having difficulty replicating it, but bottom line is its all there, just have to understand it.

i still am trying to figure out why it would rise up and down, then always back up tho if i manipulated a few small, seemingly insignificant things, but made it come back for whatever the reason.

even the last radiant circuit i was using with the 2 transistors couldnt keep itself going like this,

anyway in trying to figure out any possibilities i thought maybe its the 9 volt in the signal gen driving the base of transistor..... but its not, the signal gen is isolated from the "supply" current, so im still stumped on what was making the meter rise as the bulb was lit



Mike Enjoy these posts
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  #609  
Old 11-07-2014, 05:03 AM
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Interesting circuit Mike, but where's the output?

Does the transformer some how push back to the 12 volt power bus?
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Old 11-07-2014, 07:55 PM
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Wave broken

Okay I checked it again today. The upper wave is current, the lower wave is voltage. The thing is when I connect caps to the primary for tuning I get a broken up wave. The caps were changed out for the same caps just different ones but still the same broken wave for current.

This is a job for superscope man. This wave reminded me of the SERPS.

Its kind of all broken up. Pretty Kool one of a kind wave.

If I just run the BiTT with no caps the sine wave is pure. I have been confusing the second wave which is current with the output in previous post,Sorry!!

I am a beginner and a pretty bad reporter

The main thing is I don't know what this means for the primary current.

It is a chopped up wave with some ups and downs, spikes.

During this test the loaded to NO LOAD change in phase is 5 degrees but to be sure I said 10 degrees.

With the scope shot and tuning like this here are the latest figures.

Input 6.85v X .182a = 1.25watts X COS 80 degrees = .21 watts real power

output 4.25v X .097a = .41 watts real power

COP over 100 percent mission accomplished.

Mike











Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post
This first wave I got tonight is with no load and no tuning caps.




This next wave is fuzzy because I can't get the scope to settle down but this is a loaded wave with 4 large tuning caps. 3 on the primary and 1 on the two secondaries. Pretty crappy AAA? DOG?

Of course the input wave is on the bottom.

Strange wave on the output.




Mike
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  #611  
Old 11-07-2014, 08:24 PM
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Lightbulb Time for DC Pulse Testing

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Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post
The signal must be produced using a DC source. (A battery in this case)
Ah Hah!

Yes, that's the next thing I need to try, pulsed DC.

I have run the gamut using an audio amp with an AC sine wave and have a pretty good feel for how the SFT responds. It truly is an odd device. With no load it will free-wheel like any inductor or unloaded transformer. Also at a full dead short it will do the same thing. But when you have a normal load, like a filament lamp, it starts to draw power much like a conventional transformer.

It also appears the windings aren't nearly as critical as I first imagined. My current setup is using large gauge insulated wire, with nearly identical results.

Here's a pic running a lamp at about an 80% power factor.
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  #612  
Old 11-08-2014, 02:25 AM
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You Dog You, holdin out on me weren't ya?
No, mostly just trying to fully understand what we are dealing with here before I go post a bunch of stuff I have to eat.

To me the SFT can be best described as a wattage regulator. This is when run with a true sine wave AC input. With just the right load, you can get it to 100% PF. Anything higher or lower than this resistance, the PF drops. So far I have seen no sign of any negative PFs. So running it in this manner is pretty much unproductive. Why would anyone want a transformer that only transfers full power with an exact impedance match. And when I say full power, I mean input equals output.

So next I need to setup for pulsed DC. I think to start I'm going to dead short the secondaries and try a tank circuit on the primary with pulsing to match the natural resonance and see what gives. I highly doubt to see any sort of runaway condition, but that sure would be nice. If that reveals nothing, next I'll try replacing the shorted secondaries with caps and see where that leads.

Anyway, I can concur with Dave's findings at this point. There doesn't appear to be anything special here so far. Still a lot of testing yet to do though.
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  #613  
Old 11-08-2014, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
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Dude don't you think that there is quite a difference in Thanes 1000feet of professionally wound transformer and your few feet of house wire?

You have great cores. Bad wire and I guess you have not got you litz wire yet and will be going another direction.

I can start a new thread. I can stand it here. You said it right in the beginning that we could split up. I don't see us working together.

Dave is out and you don't think it works so there you have it.

Discussing. BYE I am pulling out boys.

I used a $100 roll of Litz wire already; it works slightly better on these Amorphous cores and quite a bit better on the toroid cores like Dave's at high frequencies. Trouble is, my amp can't go high enough to really see something. So "better" means slightly less losses in the wire, but nothing special. But it's a bearcat to wind carefully without tearing it all up. There has to be a better way.

There probably is something to the windings, but I have a hunch it's proprietary--my guess an annealed MuMetal. This would explain why Bill's wire is much higher resistance than you can get with copper.

Anyway, until I hit upon something, you are more than welcome to keep going on this thread. I'll keep my thoughts to myself I reckon.
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  #614  
Old 11-08-2014, 09:01 PM
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Nice info

Good progress fore sure. Can't wait to see what this might work into after several months of rigorous tests. Seems like there must be a secret not shown that only hard work will uncover. 101 percent efficient is kool but not practical.

I started another thread that is more for the beginning stages of this work by using Thanes page to simulate this process of finding the keyhole to unlock a big door.

We all know it can be done. Especially with battery chargers being sold without an AC cord to plug into the wall

Mike




Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog-One View Post
I used a $100 roll of Litz wire already; it works slightly better on these Amorphous cores and quite a bit better on the toroid cores like Dave's at high frequencies. Trouble is, my amp can't go high enough to really see something. So "better" means slightly less losses in the wire, but nothing special. But it's a bearcat to wind carefully without tearing it all up. There has to be a better way.

There probably is something to the windings, but I have a hunch it's proprietary--my guess an annealed MuMetal. This would explain why Bill's wire is much higher resistance than you can get with copper.

Anyway, until I hit upon something, you are more than welcome to keep going on this thread. I'll keep my thoughts to myself I reckon.
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Old 11-08-2014, 11:04 PM
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Laser Hacker diagrams

These two diagrams were interesting and deciding what is the load is a good question. My observation is the two adjustments of frequency and duty factor allow for some tuning. It bears some consideration.

Regarding your recent results, Mike, do the .21 watts in/ .41 watts out figures go with the clear scope shot or the "choppy" scope shot?

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Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post



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  #616  
Old 11-08-2014, 11:27 PM
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Late Night testing

I am not sure what the precise phase angle is other than it shifts over a tiny bit from 90 degrees. The choppy wave? I get a choppy wave as soon as I use tuning caps but it looks like a big shift in phase angle so I am guessing a 55-60 degree COS multiplication. But again it was late and I got confused on every reading. I had too many results.

I will continue and do videos. This is a long drawn out process if done right. Mr Clean is the only serious experimenter out here and he is you example of how to find answers. Years of research is the right way.

What I am starting to see is that no one really knows the answer to all of the questions that arise. Everyone has a big title in the engineering dept but this stuff does not apply to the old box.

Mike



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Originally Posted by wayne.ct View Post
These two diagrams were interesting and deciding what is the load is a good question. My observation is the two adjustments of frequency and duty factor allow for some tuning. It bears some consideration.

Regarding your recent results, Mike, do the .21 watts in/ .41 watts out figures go with the clear scope shot or the "choppy" scope shot?
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  #617  
Old 11-09-2014, 12:38 AM
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Thanks and so on

Yes, I understand.

Thanks for the quick reply.

I don't mean to set myself up as an expert. I am only trying to offer up what I hope will help. I would like to replicate what others are doing, but that is not always possible. I find that there are always differences between what I build and what I see. If my results were to happen to be better, I would gladly try and share because that would be constructive. Negative results don't prove anything. There are too many things that don't work and plenty of people out there and on this forum that take pleasure in being negative.

I am learning, too. And, I have plenty still to learn.
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  #618  
Old 11-09-2014, 01:42 AM
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You Are Awesome

As far as I am concern, you are one of the most conscientious well spoken individuals I have encountered. You will do great things. The reason I brought up EE attitudes is that it can be an obstacle. In EE there are many branches of DEEEEEEEEP understanding that to me is all about sales of more school time.

Just look at the junk with the atom smasher that never quite reaches Fusion after billions and billions. The big money does not want us to learn the simple truth so they plant stumbling blocks in the minds of their school boy cronies.

As far as I am concerned the high brow college professor is endoctrinated in arrogance. They only know what they are told to know. Blind Dogs.

Thanks for hearing me rant wayne, you make a great sounding board

mike



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Originally Posted by wayne.ct View Post
Yes, I understand.

Thanks for the quick reply.

I don't mean to set myself up as an expert. I am only trying to offer up what I hope will help. I would like to replicate what others are doing, but that is not always possible. I find that there are always differences between what I build and what I see. If my results were to happen to be better, I would gladly try and share because that would be constructive. Negative results don't prove anything. There are too many things that don't work and plenty of people out there and on this forum that take pleasure in being negative.

I am learning, too. And, I have plenty still to learn.
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Old 08-01-2015, 09:38 PM
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Lightbulb Us20140253271

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Posted drawing by Vidbid
Heah, look. Doesn't the drawing in Thane's patent look like my drawing?

https://www.google.com/patents/US20140253271



https://patentimages.storage.googlea...911-D00000.png
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Old 08-18-2015, 02:01 AM
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Lightbulb Reporting on "Energy CAN be CREATED" Video



Energy CAN be CREATED Bi-Toroid Transformer Operating at Infinite Eficiency with Zero PF Dec 7, 2014 - YouTube

Code:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2H5BerC9Go
INTRODUCTION to Potential Difference Inc. Bi-Toroid Transformer (BiTT)

DasVIDaniya

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  #621  
Old 12-06-2017, 01:10 AM
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Lightbulb Energy CAN be CREATED Bi-Toroid Transformer Operating at Infinite Eficiency with Zero



Code:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2H5BerC9Go
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2H5BerC9Go

Very Good.
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  #622  
Old 12-07-2017, 07:17 PM
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Over Unity 120 - 150 %

Hello All

I have just done a new quick test of the bi-toroid concept with a successfull result.

I have made several such tests before without good final results (<1 ).

It should be fine if someone else here could make a similar test to confirm (my)/ the test result.

I took two fat ferrite U-cores and four smaller television fly back cores. One of the fat core and two of the FBC:s only acts as an "I" !!
I have TWO input coils in parallell and the output coils in series , right now.

The Input coils have 2x200 turns and output 2x100 turns(unsure). Load resistor = 4249 Ohm (sertainly not optimum, quick test) and phase & current resistor at input = 2 Ohm.

Results: Input; 5 kHz, 1.7545 Volt, 1.785 mA, phase 88.3 degrees cos=0.02966. . .Input power: V x A x cos
Output ; 0.7523 Volt over 4249 Ohm . . . Output power: V sqr / R

This gives: Input =1 Output =1.433 , i.e 143 %

But my scope is a simple USB Welleman-type so some tenth part of a degree can be inaccurate. The Volts and mAmps are measured with a Fluke DMM and checked on the scope to see if the figures seem to be relevant.

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Old 12-07-2017, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by vidbid View Post


Code:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2H5BerC9Go
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2H5BerC9Go

Very Good.
Thanks so much Vid!!

I enjoyed that video all the way!!

It helps a lot to observe the Architecture of that Full Core in detail...as well as we all could see the Steel Lamination's Tape behind on the shelf...

If we notice, when making that core, the secondaries take exactly DOUBLE the amount of laminations compared to the primary cross section...Thanks also for posting that nice and big pic of it from patent and from your desk.

All this "small data" pieces by pieces...put together will bring Us all the light very soon...

Thanks friend!!


Regards


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Old 12-07-2017, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seaad View Post
Hello All

I have just done a new quick test of the bi-toroid concept with a successfull result. Successfull until I find whats wrong. .

I have made several such tests before without good final results (<1 ).

It should be fine if someone else here could make a similar test to confirm (my)/ the test result.

I took two fat ferrite U-cores and four smaller television fly back cores, SEE PICs. One of the fat core and two of the FBC:s only acts as an "I" !! SEE drawing.
I have TWO input coils in parallell and the output coiil in series , right now.

The Input coils have 2x200 turns and output 2x100 turns(unsure). Load resistor = 4249 Ohm (sertainly not optimum, quick test) and phase & current resistor at input = 2 Ohm.

Results: Input; 5 kHz, 1.7545 Volt, 1.785 mA, phase 88.3 degrees cos=0.02966. . .Input power: V x A x cos
Output ; 0.7523 Volt over 4249 Ohm . . . Output power: V sqr / R

This gives: Input =1 Output =1.433 , i.e 143 %

But my scope is a simple USB Welleman-type so some tenth part of a degree can be inaccurate. The Volts and mAmps are measured with a Fluke DMM and checked on the scope to see if the figures seem to be relevant.

Regards
Arne
Hello Seaad,

Sorry, but I believe you can not have good results with that set up...

You have "divided" the ONLY ONE primary on Patent... into TWO Coils PLUS TWO separated Cores...that's just part 1.

Second, the Primaries cores are NOT at least HALF of Secondaries Cores...maybe like one third or one fourth.

Third, the Field Geometries for Primaries-Secondaries are not set within same plane, but seating at 90 apart.

Anyways, just what I think...not much..

Regards


Ufopolitics
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Old 12-07-2017, 08:08 PM
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seaad seaad is offline
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UFO

Sorry I have my test result! Faulty or not.
PLEASE! Build and prove me Wrong.
I dont care how the contraption looks like. For me It only have to work as is.

Regards
Arne
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Old 12-07-2017, 08:24 PM
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Ufopolitics Ufopolitics is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seaad View Post
UFO

Sorry I have my test result! Faulty or not.
PLEASE! Build and prove me Wrong.
I dont care how the contraption looks like. For me It only have to work as is.

Regards
Arne
Wow!! Seaad, relax man!!...take a chill pill...

It don't work...so what good is it for?...EXCEPT for trying to REPAIR WHATEVER IS WRONG?

I was just trying to express my point of view...In order to help you...so take it easy


Ufopolitics
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Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

Last edited by Ufopolitics; 12-07-2017 at 08:26 PM.
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  #627  
Old 12-07-2017, 08:26 PM
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seaad seaad is offline
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==> UFO

Y
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Old 12-07-2017, 09:36 PM
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BroMikey BroMikey is online now
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Originally Posted by seaad View Post
==> UFO

Y
This is the one i ran at 60hz off a variac at 10v and now i want to
use an amplifier like Bill Alek does.

The result on mine was good, I ran cos .2 also on the scope, it works.


http://flyer.thenetteam.net/1BiTT3.jpg
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Old 12-07-2017, 10:10 PM
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seaad seaad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post
This is the one i ran at 60hz off a variac at 10v and now i want to
use an amplifier like Bill Alek does.

The result on mine was good, I ran cos .2 also on the scope, it works.

http://flyer.thenetteam.net/1BiTT3.jpg
Bro
Yours Have 3 coils, Mine 4 !!
se pic

(cos 0.2= 78 degrees )

Regards /Arne
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Old 12-07-2017, 10:11 PM
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Ufopolitics Ufopolitics is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroMikey View Post
This is the one i ran at 60hz off a variac at 10v and now i want to
use an amplifier like Bill Alek does.

The result on mine was good, I ran cos .2 also on the scope, it works.


http://flyer.thenetteam.net/1BiTT3.jpg
Hey Mikey,

WTF was that???!!!

Geez Bro, well...I know, it means you are working on it...

The heck...it works right?

One thing that gives strength to any of electromagnetic coupling...is the CORE FLUX TRANSFER...considering -on this particular case- that Prinmary do NOT get the "Back Flux" from secondaries, hence, keeping zero at primary WHEN LOADED.

To me, the above is the most important data of all...

Anyways, I see your flux is communicating by "Space-Transfer"...


Good to see you working Miley!!!...


Ufopolitics
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