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#1
12-25-2011, 10:51 AM
 replaced Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 34
Why perpetual motion machines do not exist

I'll explain in a simple way why perpetual motion machines do not exist and why you should stop wasting your time on these machines.

The (useful) energy output of any machine is due to an imbalance. This imbalance may be electricity (which is positive and negative ions), imbalance in temperature (random movement of atoms), imbalance in kinetic energy (relative to other stationary objects), imbalance of mass (pivots etc), imbalance of pressure (gasoline car),etc...

When ANY work is done, such as generating electricity or moving a car, what is being done can only be the result of entropy. Work is done because something is moving from a state of imbalance to balance. The reason why things move from a state of imbalance to balance is because there are more possible states of balance than imbalance.

If you were to fill a box with a thousand red and green pieces of sand and shook the box randomly, you would eventually get a mixture of red and green sand randomly scattered in the box. This is because the probability of red and green sand pieces arranging themselves in an imbalanced way is much much smaller than a balanced way.

Now replace those red and green pieces of sand with electricity. Once the imbalance between positive and negative ions is complete, no work can be done until there is imbalance again.

Replace those red and green pieces of sand with hot steaming water and cool air. Once equilibrium takes effect, the turbine stops moving.

Basically, all "perpetual motion" machines fail because they operate on converting imbalance to balance. Not a single machine has ever made as a net result more imbalance than balance.
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Last edited by replaced; 12-25-2011 at 11:28 AM.
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#2
12-25-2011, 12:10 PM
 soundiceuk Gold Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 1,072
Your theory is based on a closed system and some very heavy indoctrination. I can show you a system and explain it, even provide instructions on how to make a very simple \$20-\$30 apparatus to make you understand the workings of the device.

The problem is, if it was realized by certain people the potential of what it can do, more than likely neodymium magnets would disappear very quickly or become unreasonably expensive.

I heard something very similar happened to Boron magnets.

Because of this solid state devices are the way to go.
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#3
12-25-2011, 01:55 PM
 mbrownn Gold Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,643
Perpetual motion does not exist unless you are talking about electrons spinning around atoms and then its maybe.

I don't doubt that the sum of all inputs equals the sum of all outputs but overunity devices or should I say devices with a COP of greater than 1 are a fact, not disputed by science except when an output is electricity. If you don't believe it just look up how an aircon unit works.
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#4
12-25-2011, 02:04 PM
 willy96 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 379
joke

you guys suck totally loosers

i have proven it years ago ...

your **** will wash away ...

hahahaha

mine never will !

you guys are looking extreamilly STUPID NOW !!!!!

W
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#5
12-25-2011, 02:35 PM
 dragon Silver Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 922
Nature is already in a constant state of imbalance, by your own definition we live in a perpetual world of chaotic balancing and unbalancing. A continuous exchange of energy in various forms everywhere, all the time, Perpetual.

Remove your nose from the books of propaganda and look out the window now and then, see for yourself the truth.
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#6
12-25-2011, 04:16 PM
 Dave45 Platinum Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,501
I agree there is no such thing as perpetual motion everything is being fed by the aether, every atom every planet all the same thing all magnets.
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Half of the Answer is knowing the right Question
#7
12-25-2011, 04:59 PM
 quantumuppercut Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 406
Perpetual motion doesn't exist because people don't support it.
People don't support it because it does not make sense.
It does not make sense because they can't find it logical.
They need a logical reason either in math or philosophy.
They need a logical reason to support it while they say science is not a belief system.
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#8
12-25-2011, 05:02 PM
 willy96 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 379
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Dave45 I agree there is no such thing as perpetual motion everything is being fed by the aether, every atom every planet all the same thing all magnets.
IS THAT SO ?

beleave as you may just know your quite WRONG !

W

so whats the aether? but only a medium ...
just as you may have a glass of water

i have a glass of aether

as i place my stones upon my body davy thinks .... it comes from the aether lol .... the energy boost i have ... but the rest of the world knows already .. that the spinning mass of the planet ... creates a force feild sheilding us from the cosmic rays ... witch happins to create a feed back saclar driven loop from the earths energy already in perpetual motion .. ringging my stones via harmonics .. upon my body... with my staff i can dirrect the energy as i become myself a part of a much bigger well designed system of order and control!

W. Filsinger
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Last edited by willy96; 12-25-2011 at 05:16 PM.
#9
12-25-2011, 05:38 PM
 Dave45 Platinum Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,501
We live in the electric field of our galaxy that electric field (aether) moves towards the center of our galaxy coupling with the magnetic field that surrounds the galaxy, it is drawn into our planets core heating it, it is the same energy that fires our sun and all stars.
The same energy energizes every atom, planet, galaxy it is the power that powers the universe and everything in it, your stones (semiconductors) may or may not channel energy(aether) but it is still the aether that powers everything.
__________________
Half of the Answer is knowing the right Question
#10
12-25-2011, 05:48 PM
 nueview Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Alaska,USA Posts: 300
@ Replaced
i think you did a very good job of showing your state of mind and it would be best if you keep it in my opinion.
it is clear that you have defined the destination of your existance as well.
"everything will be consumed to a point of balance and END!"

The only thing that needs balance is the mind to know when there is enough creation and when there has been enough destruction.
What creation or destruction is good and what is detrimental!

I hope you grow to a better understanding,
Martin
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#11
12-25-2011, 06:52 PM
 LetsReplicate Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Canada Posts: 120
@Replaced

The primary problem with "perpetual motion" is that the term itself has too many meanings. People have different interpretations of the word in mind when it's said.

In the classical sense of "running in a closed system", "perpetual motion" does not exist, but neither do "closed systems". That issue has been known about since Netwon so the classical definition now gets ignored. The "new definition" includes use of energy harvesting in order to maintain imbalance. This harvested energy can be anything from solar, to static electricity, to stray magnetic fields.

Look at it this way: a battery is an imbalance that becomes balanced as it supplies power to a small motor. If you attach a soar cell to recharge the battery so that it never reaches "balanced", is that "perpetual motion"? Some say no, some say yes, that will never change.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by nueview i think you did a very good job of showing your state of mind and it would be best if you keep it in my opinion. it is clear that you have defined the destination of your existance as well. "everything will be consumed to a point of balance and END!"
His statement is a true one regardless of whether your beliefs allow you to accept it. The universe will come to an end someday, but long before that the Earth will lose its rotational energy and fall into the sun.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Dave45 We live in the electric field of our galaxy that electric field (aether) moves towards the center of our galaxy coupling with the magnetic field that surrounds the galaxy, it is drawn into our planets core heating it, it is the same energy that fires our sun and all stars. The same energy energizes every atom, planet, galaxy it is the power that powers the universe and everything in it, your stones (semiconductors) may or may not channel energy(aether) but it is still the aether that powers everything.
Agreed, but aether is not an "electric field", it is the substance that gives rise gravity and magnetism which acts as a medium for light waves. A "electric field" is "pressure on electrons" that is the "grandchild" of aether, so it can't be attributed to the aether itself.

Aether is also a term that has several definitions which commonly get confused.
Quote:
 Originally Posted by dragon Nature is already in a constant state of imbalance, by your own definition we live in a perpetual world of chaotic balancing and unbalancing. A continuous exchange of energy in various forms everywhere, all the time, Perpetual.
Technically yes, but that is only true because the universe also contains both ends of "time" and "time" is the product acquiring balance on a universal level, the imbalance will exist for as long as time does. By definition then, it would be perpetual. The classical definition of "perpetual motion" only exists on a universal level because the universe is the only truly closed system.
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Last edited by LetsReplicate; 12-25-2011 at 07:14 PM.
#12
12-25-2011, 10:43 PM
 replaced Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 34
I'm still waiting for someone to explain why their "perpetual motion" machine doesn't operate on converting the imbalance to balance of something.
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#13
12-25-2011, 11:23 PM
 shawnnweed Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: LA Posts: 323
Quote:
 Originally Posted by replaced I'm still waiting for someone to explain why their "perpetual motion" machine doesn't operate on converting the imbalance to balance of something.
Your thoughts are illogical. Everything in the universe has a different atomic weight. Therefore the universe was created in 'inbalance'. Therefore energy will never exchange on a 'balance'; unless we have it exchange on a balance. Which is heavier a pound of feathers or a pound of bricks? Now do you get it. We are the only thing; sientient, thinking beings that can cause a balanced exchange. A balancd exchange happen naturally is unnatural; not impossible just improbable. Hence the oxymoron. The key to figuring out a perpetual energy device is in "US, WE, OURSELVES" figuring out the conversion rate of exchange between different forms of energy. In knowing the conversion rates it is possible to make a cascading effect of exchange of energy using balance AND imbalance to acheive the objective. Notice that the first law of thermodynamics as stated above does not hold true when it comes to electricity. Notice that RF cooling can negate the second law of thermodynamics by cooling an object even as it is heated; as long as you know the heating range and can balance it with the proper ammount of cooling. But this will take ingenous and coloborative thought. Apart it is improbable; together anything is possible. No one person has all the answers. This is why a perpetual motion device, thatactually does work, has never been completed; because they tried it alone. But what really agitates me more than anything is naysayers like you coming in and stating the obvious; but from a tainted and brainwashed persepective. What will you tell us next, the sky is blue?
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#14
12-25-2011, 11:41 PM
 soundiceuk Gold Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 1,072
This is an less efficient design to the version that a precision engineering company in the UK offered to finish for me when I showed them my designs and apparatus to demonstrate where the energy is coming from.

I can tell you exactly what to buy for \$20-\$30 that will show you exactly where the energy is coming from.

When I showed their designers, they got extremely exited and started coming out with multiple modifications to improve the efficiency.

I still haven't told them about Thane Hein's work which could be coupled with this device. This device can be scaled downwards, sidewards, upwards to power a caravan, house, unit, city, whatever.

Neodymium loses 1% of its power every 100 years.

There are 32 diametrically magnetized neodymium magnets within the 32 deflecting elements.

32 is the minimum frequency the device will work at.

There are 9 diametrically magnetized neodymium magnets in the deflector of equal length.

The strength of the 9 must be more powerful than the stength of the 32 for the device to work.

The device will self start when the deflector is in the correct position.

The deflecting elements will deflect until they hit the magnetic mechanical stop once they have reached the 5 o'clock position. For a moment the weight is levitated.

The magnets in the deflector are trying to rotate the deflecting elements to align poles but as it cannot the wheel is given a kick instead. Just like a swingball when you keep batting the ball round. If you hit it at the right time is goes faster and faster.

The deflecting elements will then swing from this position in the 12 o'clock to 2 o'clock position.

The weight of the lead cylinders on the deflecting elements and the distance from the center spindle will determine the amount of torque produced.

When the wheel spins to a point when the centrifugal force is too great, an equilibrium point is found, so the wheel slows down and speeds up, but so gradually it cannot bee seen by the human eye.

Think of how a torque wrench works. This uses gravity, centrifugal force and magnetism in a very clever way to produce usable torque. It is constantly like a set of weighing scales that gets tipped constantly.

If anybody wants to build this I will open source the latest design once it is finished. I can provide dimension and CAD drawings for this version and tell you how to modify the design to make it a hell of a lot more efficient.

I believe in this project that much I self taught myself to use Solidworks since Feb 2011 because I want to free the people of this world.

It will happen, we will come together, we will make our own electricity, we will grow our own food!

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#15
12-25-2011, 11:44 PM
 replaced Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 34
Quote:
 Originally Posted by shawnnweed Your thoughts are illogical. Everything in the universe has a different atomic weight. Therefore the universe was created in 'inbalance'.
Nothing in the universe has weight. Gravity is not a force. Gravity is the result of the curvature of the space-time continuum.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by shawnnweed Therefore energy will never exchange on a 'balance'; unless we have it exchange on a balance. Which is heavier a pound of feathers or a pound of bricks? Now do you get it. We are the only thing; sientient, thinking beings that can cause a balanced exchange. A balancd exchange happen naturally is unnatural; not impossible just improbable. Hence the oxymoron. The key to figuring out a perpetual energy device is in "US, WE, OURSELVES" figuring out the conversion rate of exchange between different forms of energy.
There is no different conversion rate of different forms of energy.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by shawnnweed In knowing the conversion rates it is possible to make a cascading effect of exchange of energy using balance AND imbalance to acheive the objective. Notice that the first law of thermodynamics as stated above does not hold true when it comes to electricity. Notice that RF cooling can negate the second law of thermodynamics by cooling an object even as it is heated; as long as you know the heating range and can balance it with the proper ammount of cooling.
RF cooling does not negate the second law of thermodynamics, not at all.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by shawnnweed But this will take ingenous and coloborative thought. Apart it is improbable; together anything is possible. No one person has all the answers. This is why a perpetual motion device, thatactually does work, has never been completed; because they tried it alone. But what really agitates me more than anything is naysayers like you coming in and stating the obvious; but from a tainted and brainwashed persepective. What will you tell us next, the sky is blue?
A perpetual motion device that actually works hasn't been completed because it's mathematically impossible. The real truth is that the 2nd law of thermodynamics isn't an absolute law such as 2+2=4, but is more of a law based on the probability of the outcome of things. The probability of something going toward equilibrium is much greater than the probability of something going toward slightly more imbalance.

The 2nd law of thermodynamics simply says that the potential energy of the universe (which is the true closed system) is decreasing as time passes. But of course this also holds true of almost closed systems like a machine.

Virtual particles show that particles can come to existence without net energy being created. A virtual particle can't come into existence unless the opposite of that particle comes into existence with the opposite velocity of the other particle.

We know the conversion rate of kinetic energy. The momentum simply transfers to other particles. Is that too hard to understand?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by soundiceuk This is an less efficient design to the version that a precision engineering company in the UK offered to finish for me when I showed them my designs and apparatus to demonstrate where the energy is coming from.
Your machine will never be perpetual. Do you think you're the first person who put magnets on a wheel?
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Last edited by replaced; 12-26-2011 at 12:01 AM.
#16
12-26-2011, 12:17 AM
 willy96 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 379
wrong!

i can prove you wrong wrong wrong!

that aint my job to prove anything to a fool ! tho!

W

if you can not build it and understand it yourself im just guessing you aint never gonna have it

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#17
12-26-2011, 01:27 AM
 replaced Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 34
Quote:
 Originally Posted by willy96 i can prove you wrong wrong wrong! that aint my job to prove anything to a fool ! tho! W if you can not build it and understand it yourself im just guessing you aint never gonna have it
If you think something works, build it, and it turns out to not work, then you miscalculated.

Please prove me wrong by producing a perpetual motion machine running in real life. It may look like something is perpetual on paper but when you actually go ahead and build it, it turns out that you didn't account for something causing it to not be perpetual.

I'm just trying to help people not waste their unemployment checks on trying to build machines that won't work.
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#18
12-26-2011, 02:01 AM
 shawnnweed Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: LA Posts: 323
Quote:
 Originally Posted by replaced Nothing in the universe has weight. Gravity is not a force. Gravity is the result of the curvature of the space-time continuum. There is no different conversion rate of different forms of energy. RF cooling does not negate the second law of thermodynamics, not at all. A perpetual motion device that actually works hasn't been completed because it's mathematically impossible. The real truth is that the 2nd law of thermodynamics isn't an absolute law such as 2+2=4, but is more of a law based on the probability of the outcome of things. The probability of something going toward equilibrium is much greater than the probability of something going toward slightly more imbalance. The 2nd law of thermodynamics simply says that the potential energy of the universe (which is the true closed system) is decreasing as time passes. But of course this also holds true of almost closed systems like a machine. Virtual particles show that particles can come to existence without net energy being created. A virtual particle can't come into existence unless the opposite of that particle comes into existence with the opposite velocity of the other particle. We know the conversion rate of kinetic energy. The momentum simply transfers to other particles. Is that too hard to understand? Your machine will never be perpetual. Do you think you're the first person who put magnets on a wheel?
were you bon in a cave? Atomic wieght has nothing to do with actuall weight it has to do with structure.

DUH, there is no conversion rates for different formes of energy because we have not created them yet. It is much the same as time. Time is not an actual person place or thing. It is a concept. You have to imagine it before you can build it. And if you are silly enough to beleive that energy doesn't exchange on different levels when it is coming from different forms then all batteries, regardless of composition should put out comesurate energy but it doesn't.

And you just swallowed a camel but chocked on the fly. OK 'negate' was a bad and insufficent word to have chosen but you missed the point, the big point; if you know how much heat is generated and you provide a proper amount of cooling then the metal will never break down. You can not place the second law of thermodynamics in check; but you can place it in stalemate for a very long time. A prime example is this individual solar system. If you give a scientist a rock and tell him to give you an estimed tim frame you might get millions, billions or trillions of years and if that is so then this planet has been in rotation around our sun for that long. So do not try to convince me that perpetual motion is not possible. Even with things like solar winds, gravitational wells, etc trying to slow this mudball down it still has not stopped so chew on that for the next trillion or so years.
And how about this...I have come to the conclusion that amorphous silicon solar cells give an 'exchange rate of 42 mAh per 1,000 lumen. So usingthis knowledge would you say that it is probable or improbable that you could create perpetaul energy if you could create that necessary 1,000 lumen at 22 Mah. And if that were possible, could you not create an engine that could run sustained if you placed the core of the engine in a suspended state with zero friction, such as a rodin coil does with a neodymium ball suspended in water to vortex it. Then could you not use that vortex energy to create work. And then use RF cooling to place any heat, caused by motion, into check? You see you do not know everything and what you have been taught was not meaded out with common sense of alternative trains of thought. You were taught what has already been learned and for the most part that knowledge does hold true. I personally believe in the laws of thermodynamics and will say only a fool would disregard them however they do not hold true in all cases. If you have not learned that yet then you have a long way to go. Because the Laws of thermodynamics are nothing more than a foundation to build on; it is not the whole house.
And kinetics is just one way to 'transfer' energy; ONE of many. Do you not understand that?
Now as far as trading quips with you I am done. This arguement like your brainwashed rhetoric is not perpetual and I will not waste any more time with you because you are a lost cause. You will never amount to anything simply because you will never take what you have learned and build something new. All lapdogs, like you, can only replicate becuase you have no imagination; which in indeed IS the driving force behind all 'new' discoveries. So please take your idealogical / one tracked learning and get back in the assembly line where you belong. And leave the discovering up to the crazy people like us. After all; almost all great inventions were made while trying to complete another. Lead, follow; i don't care, but get the Hell out of my way.
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#19
12-26-2011, 02:08 AM
 LetsReplicate Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Canada Posts: 120
Quote:
 Originally Posted by replaced A perpetual motion device that actually works hasn't been completed because it's mathematically impossible. The real truth is that the 2nd law of thermodynamics isn't an absolute law such as 2+2=4, but is more of a law based on the probability of the outcome of things. The probability of something going toward equilibrium is much greater than the probability of something going toward slightly more imbalance. The 2nd law of thermodynamics simply says that the potential energy of the universe (which is the true closed system) is decreasing as time passes. But of course this also holds true of almost closed systems like a machine. Virtual particles show that particles can come to existence without net energy being created. A virtual particle can't come into existence unless the opposite of that particle comes into existence with the opposite velocity of the other particle. We know the conversion rate of kinetic energy. The momentum simply transfers to other particles. Is that too hard to understand?
The second law of thermodynamics IS a law, not a probability, but it's poorly understood by many people. Like many aspects of physics.

A "machine" is no more a closed system than you are.

Have you ever stopped to consider how stupid the idea of a "virtual particle" is? The "particles" are just placeholders for energy quanta, which are actually waves and vortices. "Particles" only act like particles when the when the outermost current is striped off by "observation".

...I really did think you might want a serious discussion, but from your responses in this thread it looks like you are just be here to troll... That's a pity.
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#20
12-26-2011, 02:09 AM
 willy96 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 379
Quote:
 Originally Posted by replaced If you think something works, build it, and it turns out to not work, then you miscalculated. Please prove me wrong by producing a perpetual motion machine running in real life. It may look like something is perpetual on paper but when you actually go ahead and build it, it turns out that you didn't account for something causing it to not be perpetual. I'm just trying to help people not waste their unemployment checks on trying to build machines that won't work.
ok

makes sence
it does work
its hard to make it work ..
i have made this a year or 2 ago ...

i can remove all batteries .. and it will run with out put .. i have closed looped it, it charges its self while powering

as well i built the g6 it recharges its source and puts out 30vdc x 6 as well as rechargeing itsself ..

its fully automatic ..

i have several toys ...

W

need videos ?
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#21
12-26-2011, 02:34 AM
 replaced Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 34
Quote:
 Originally Posted by shawnnweed were you bon in a cave? Atomic wieght has nothing to do with actuall weight it has to do with structure. DUH, there is no conversion rates for different formes of energy because we have not created them yet.
E=MC2

Quote:
 Originally Posted by shawnnweed It is much the same as time. Time is not an actual person place or thing. It is a concept.
Time is not a concept, it is the 4th dimension described in general relativity. You have yet to understand the physics from a century ago.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by shawnnweed You have to imagine it before you can build it. And if you are silly enough to beleive that energy doesn't exchange on different levels when it is coming from different forms then all batteries, regardless of composition should put out comesurate energy but it doesn't.
When you run a battery, you are not actually converting subatomic particles to anything, you are just converting an imbalance of atoms holding lots of electrons with atoms lacking an electron.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by shawnnweed And you just swallowed a camel but chocked on the fly. OK 'negate' was a bad and insufficent word to have chosen but you missed the point, the big point; if you know how much heat is generated and you provide a proper amount of cooling then the metal will never break down. You can not place the second law of thermodynamics in check; but you can place it in stalemate for a very long time. A prime example is this individual solar system. If you give a scientist a rock and tell him to give you an estimed tim frame you might get millions, billions or trillions of years and if that is so then this planet has been in rotation around our sun for that long. So do not try to convince me that perpetual motion is not possible.
The moon is constantly going further away from the Earth, it has been measured. The Earth is also going further away from the Sun. There is no perpetual motion. The Earth's rotation is also slowing.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by shawnnweed Even with things like solar winds, gravitational wells, etc trying to slow this mudball down it still has not stopped so chew on that for the next trillion or so years.
The Earth is slowing down and moving away from the Sun.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by shawnnweed And how about this...I have come to the conclusion that amorphous silicon solar cells give an 'exchange rate of 42 mAh per 1,000 lumen. So usingthis knowledge would you say that it is probable or improbable that you could create perpetaul energy if you could create that necessary 1,000 lumen at 22 Mah.
This is false. Amorphous silicon solar cells at best have 25% efficiency.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by shawnnweed And if that were possible, could you not create an engine that could run sustained if you placed the core of the engine in a suspended state with zero friction, such as a rodin coil does with a neodymium ball suspended in water to vortex it.
Zero friction does not exist.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by shawnnweed Then could you not use that vortex energy to create work. And then use RF cooling to place any heat, caused by motion, into check? You see you do not know everything and what you have been taught was not meaded out with common sense of alternative trains of thought. You were taught what has already been learned and for the most part that knowledge does hold true. I personally believe in the laws of thermodynamics and will say only a fool would disregard them however they do not hold true in all cases. If you have not learned that yet then you have a long way to go. Because the Laws of thermodynamics are nothing more than a foundation to build on; it is not the whole house. And kinetics is just one way to 'transfer' energy; ONE of many. Do you not understand that?
The 2nd law of thermodynamics holds true for ALL cases.
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Last edited by replaced; 12-26-2011 at 02:51 AM.
#22
12-26-2011, 02:44 AM
 replaced Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 34
Quote:
 Originally Posted by LetsReplicate The second law of thermodynamics IS a law, not a probability, but it's poorly understood by many people. Like many aspects of physics.
Just as newton's law of motion only give a great approximation of where an object is headed, the 2nd law of thermodynamics gives an even greater approximation of a system losing potential energy. Newton's law of motion is not 100% accurate because of time dilation, wave-particle duality, and entanglement. The second law of thermodynamics doesn't hold absolutely true to a small box holding 20 helium and 20 neon atoms. Given enough time, maybe billions of years, by chance, the helium and neon atoms will both separate themselves and work could be done as a result of this separation.

It is not even possible to create an atomic machine with zero friction because there is a probability function that determines where atoms ago. Wave-particle duality has been observed in carbon 60 buckyballs. So even molecules can be in multiple places at once.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by LetsReplicate A "machine" is no more a closed system than you are. Have you ever stopped to consider how stupid the idea of a "virtual particle" is? The "particles" are just placeholders for energy quanta, which are actually waves and vortices. "Particles" only act like particles when the when the outermost current is striped off by "observation". ...I really did think you might want a serious discussion, but from your responses in this thread it looks like you are just be here to troll... That's a pity.
Virtual particles have been observed and proven. There are particles that spontaneously come out of existence and cease existing when they go back together. The particles interact just like regular particles. The Casimir effect is just one of the things that proven virtual particles exist.
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Last edited by replaced; 12-26-2011 at 02:54 AM.
#23
12-26-2011, 03:43 AM
 shawnnweed Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: LA Posts: 323
Quote:
 Originally Posted by replaced E=MC2 Time is not a concept, it is the 4th dimension described in general relativity. You have yet to understand the physics from a century ago. When you run a battery, you are not actually converting subatomic particles to anything, you are just converting an imbalance of atoms holding lots of electrons with atoms lacking an electron. The moon is constantly going further away from the Earth, it has been measured. The Earth is also going further away from the Sun. There is no perpetual motion. The Earth's rotation is also slowing. The Earth is slowing down and moving away from the Sun. This is false. Amorphous silicon solar cells at best have 25% efficiency. Zero friction does not exist. The 2nd law of thermodynamics holds true for ALL cases.
Time is not a dimension unless you have the ability to travel back and forth in it...so do you have a time machine? Noob. Why don't you take time to think before consulting wikipedia.

I know the inner workings of a battery. But once again you failed to see what I was saying. Big surprise.

Yes the earth's roataion is slowing but will you be around to see it end? LOL. NOOB. How about this why don't you take out your big calclator and perform the calculations to tell me when it will stop. Once again you have missed the point. Big surprise.

It is true that zero friction does not exist. Yet suspended objects ARE as close to zero friction as one can get. So what if it is 0.000001. I round to the nearest 0. NOOB. Big surprise that you still just don't get it. All things do have an end but if you know how to delay that end then doesn't it make sense to do so. And tell me. If I leave a neodymium ball suspended in the center of a rodin coil then how many millions of years will it take for that ball, when coming in contact with air, the only friction it will have, to overheat and break down. NOOB. Tell you what why don't you make that your next project. You can have your greatgrandson to the billionth power give us the the result...I demand actual measurements and not calcualtions this time.

Wow...it is true that you have a calcualtor but can not think for yourself. No amorphous silicon does not have that exchange rate but monocrystalline does. Now answer the question and stop chocking on flies.

And I did not say that the second law of thermodynamics doesn not apply in all cases I said it can be placed in stalemate as all things can. If I placed a match, that burned for eternity, under a six feet thick metal vat filled with 100 million gallons of water at what point would the match make the water boil. It will not because the metal and water will disperse the heat generated faster than it can cause a breakdown of the fundamental elements presented. Ok one more time...NOOB.
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#24
12-26-2011, 03:44 AM
 LetsReplicate Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Canada Posts: 120
Quote:
 Originally Posted by replaced Just as newton's law of motion only give a great approximation of where an object is headed, the 2nd law of thermodynamics gives an even greater approximation of a system losing potential energy. Newton's law of motion is not 100% accurate because of time dilation, wave-particle duality, and entanglement. The second law of thermodynamics doesn't hold absolutely true to a small box holding 20 helium and 20 neon atoms. Given enough time, maybe billions of years, by chance, the helium and neon atoms will both separate themselves and work could be done as a result of this separation. It is not even possible to create an atomic machine with zero friction because there is a probability function that determines where atoms ago. Wave-particle duality has been observed in carbon 60 buckyballs. So even molecules can be in multiple places at once.
Quote:
 Originally Posted by replaced The 2nd law of thermodynamics holds true for ALL cases.
*facepalm* Is your box of 40 atoms somewhere in this universe? If so it's still gaining energy from "quantum fluctuations" (aether), which is where the energy comes from. If this theoretical was intended to be a "bottle universe" (closed system) then the energy of the system is of no importance because the energy could not exist outside of it. To make this whole thing more problematic, you'd need an observer inside the box as well, otherwise there would be no result to the experiment (Schrodinger's cat).

The second law of thermodynamics is: entropy exists. You can never escape entropy, but you can "overpower" it by adding energy. Example being: battery + solar + motor = "perpetual motion".

Objects that appear to being in multiple places at the same time are acting as a wave.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by replaced Virtual particles have been observed and proven. There are particles that spontaneously come out of existence and cease existing when they go back together. The particles interact just like regular particles. The Casimir effect is just one of the things that proven virtual particles exist.
Did you know that electricity used to be defined backward until electrical engineers NEEDED to flip it around to understand semi-conductors? That's what has happened here: the standard is defined backward.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect Vibrations in this field propagate and are governed by the appropriate wave equation for the particular field in question.
Quote:
 Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_artifact A virtual artifact (VA) is an immaterial object that exists in the human mind or in a digital environment, for example the Internet, intranet, virtual reality, cyberspace, etc. Purposes and uses of virtual artifacts: * Virtual artifacts are a crucial part of digital, imaginary game worlds. * Artwork (e.g. paintings, interactive installations, music videos) that is presented/archived in a virtual environment can be considered as a virtual artifact. * Virtual artifacts (e.g. parts of simulated experiments, models) are used in many areas of scientific research (e.g. medical science, chemistry, astronomy). * Designers (such as fashion designers, industrial designers, architects) use virtual artifacts (e.g. prototypes, testing environments) in their work process.
We call them "virtual particles" in physics because we're not supposed to talk about the aether, even though it unifies the theory. Particles are an approximation due to observing the quantum level, so it's regarded as probability. The Casimir Effect is caused by aether, not "virtual particles". Aether could also be used to describe how the virtual particles are actually created, something that is completely ignored in quantum mechanics.
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#25
12-26-2011, 04:18 AM
 replaced Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 34
Quote:
 Originally Posted by LetsReplicate *facepalm* Is your box of 40 atoms somewhere in this universe? If so it's still gaining energy from "quantum fluctuations" (aether), which is where the energy comes from. If this theoretical was intended to be a "bottle universe" (closed system) then the energy of the system is of no importance because the energy could not exist outside of it. To make this whole thing more problematic, you'd need an observer inside the box as well, otherwise there would be no result to the experiment (Schrodinger's cat).
Looks like we are talking about 2 different kinds of energies. One is energy that can be strategically used to move an object at a certain velocity, while moving something the opposite velocity. Another energy is matter itself and momentum which is unchanged and what the 2nd law of thermodynamics doesn't necessarily cover. If you move mass in one direction, you have to either move mass the opposite direction or convert energy into momentum such as a nuclear bomb (which also moves mass in opposite directions).

Quote:
 Originally Posted by LetsReplicate The second law of thermodynamics is: entropy exists. You can never escape entropy, but you can "overpower" it by adding energy. Example being: battery + solar + motor = "perpetual motion".
A motor powered by solar panels is not perpetual motion because the reaction in the Sun will cease.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by LetsReplicate Objects that appear to being in multiple places at the same time are acting as a wave.
No, molecules can/are really in multiple places at once. The interference pattern caused when a molecule goes through a double slit means that the molecule interacted with itself. Covering one slit destroys the interference pattern.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by LetsReplicate We call them "virtual particles" in physics because we're not supposed to talk about the aether, even though it unifies the theory. Particles are an approximation due to observing the quantum level, so it's regarded as probability. The Casimir Effect is caused by aether, not "virtual particles". Aether could also be used to describe how the virtual particles are actually created, something that is completely ignored in quantum mechanics.
Aether does not exist. Virtual particles do exist and the math and many experiments prove it. Particles AND atoms are in approximation because they can be in multiple places at once.
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Last edited by replaced; 12-26-2011 at 04:32 AM.
#26
12-26-2011, 05:05 AM
 LetsReplicate Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Canada Posts: 120
Quote:
 Originally Posted by replaced Looks like we are talking about 2 different kinds of energies. One is energy that can be strategically used to move an object at a certain velocity, while moving something the opposite velocity. Another energy is matter itself which is unchanged and what the 2nd law of thermodynamics doesn't necessarily cover.
"Matter" is congealed aether. You know that "curvature in space-time" thing? That's the aetheric density gradient. Aether is the "graviton" and disproves the Higgs boson which have not been observed experimentally because THEY ARE "free space". Aether also cleanly explains both dark matter, dark energy, and red shift without the need for the Big Bang. The LetsReplicate.com article on that hasn't been written yet as I am currently writing about irrational fear of HAARP, I do plan to cover that topic soon and use visuals so that it's easier for people to understand. The theory doesn't dispute quantum theory, only makes it implicitly simple and logical as to WHY it occurs.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by replaced Solar is not perpetual motion because the reaction in the Sun will cease.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by replaced No, molecules can/are really in multiple places at once. The interference pattern caused when a molecule goes through a double slit means that the molecule interacted with itself. Covering one slit destroys the interference pattern.
Only waves have interference patterns because they are not a discreet object. The quantum slit proves that all objects can act as either waves or particles, you also seem to fail to understand how the quantum slit works, you don't "cover one slit".

Note the key words "becomes a wave of potentials".

Quote:
 Originally Posted by replaced Aether does not exist. Virtual particles do exist and the math and many experiments prove it. Particles are in approximation because they are in multiple places at once.
Okay, if you think so, then explain to me why aether is wrong. The "virtual particles" do "exist" (kind of), but the system is defined in a way that is far more complicated than necessary. They've thrown the baby out with the bathwater and now they are trudging through the garbage trying to find it again.

Only a wave can be in multiple places at once.
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#27
12-26-2011, 05:17 AM
 willy96 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 379
would it not make sence that .. if infact the earth is slowing down and some how moveing away from the sun ... that the sun is in fact slowing down or speeding up changeing the orbital the earth rides in .... what do ya think or do ya ?
now something tells me that if 1 is changing as you imply that all must follow suit as they ride in the harmonic rings the sun produces... :P

hummmmm

eh!

W

Originally Posted by replaced i must say you are a peice of work ...
if the aether does not exisit .. what par tell are you liveing in ... ?
whats in a vaccume tube ... ?

we all live in a vaccume tube ... a vaccumme tube ....

replaced is nothing more than a negitive charged electron in my vaccumme tube ....
quick we better harvest him he is ripe ...

carefull ill pull the soul right of you !

hahahaha..... so funny! just for you replaced !
The Other IBM - Giant Problem - Medival - Business man - YouTube

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Last edited by willy96; 12-26-2011 at 05:47 AM.
#28
12-26-2011, 05:59 AM
 Kokomoj0 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 426
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#29
12-26-2011, 06:05 AM
 tagor Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 47
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Dave45 I agree there is no such thing as perpetual motion everything is being fed by the aether, every atom every planet all the same thing all magnets.
have you seen this boat

ASTROMAN - Consulting, Executive Search
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#30
12-26-2011, 06:30 AM
 Aaron Co-Founder & Moderator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Washington State Posts: 10,749
fradulent use of pepetual motion skepticism

Quote:
 Originally Posted by replaced Aether does not exist. Virtual particles do exist and the math and many experiments prove it. Particles AND atoms are in approximation because they can be in multiple places at once.
Aether exists and what is called virtual particles is the aether.

Your claim about not being perpetual motion is ridiculous - on a solar panel?

No it is not but to say it isn't perpetual motion means you think it is a perpetual motion
claim, which is ridiculous.

Perpetual motion is an object in perpetual motion because it overcomes
or has no resistance to its movement. Perpetual motion has nothing to do with
electricity, heat or any other system. It is a myth that these "laws of
motion" carry over to other systems - you need to keep things in context.

Keep in mind that perpetual motion is actually a requirement according to Newton’s First Law of Motion.

First law: The velocity of a body remains constant unless the body is acted upon by an external force.

It says the body remains in perpetual motion unless an external force acts upon the body. Unless is not a requirement; it is a condition. It does not say that a body must have external force acted up on; it says unless there is. It is irrelevant whether or not the probability is extremely high that an external force will act up on the body. So although that perpetual motion is a

requirement that precedes any possible resistance, perpetual motion has
NOTHING to do with an "overunity" electrical, heat or other system that
doesn't involve a mass moving in some mechanical motion without resistance. And claiming that anyone that believes that a heat, electrical,
or other system can output more than is input is perpetual motion, well,
you only show that you have no idea about any of the differences or

distinctions that separate these systems from each other.

It is as ridiculous to claim these are perpetual motion claims as it is to
claim these systems are perpetual motion. Both are ignorant.

And furthermore, Newton believed in the aether too so don't quote someone that believes in the aether to disprove something when you are only selectively taking
parts of his argument to benefit your belief while discarding the others. You have
to take everything in context.

1. And first I suppose that there is diffused through all places an aethereal substance capable of contraction & dilatation, strongly elastick, & in a word, much like air in all respects, but far more subtile.
2. I suppose this aether pervades all gross bodies, but yet so as to stand rarer in their pores then in free spaces, & so much ye rarer as their pores are less ...
3. I suppose ye rarer aether within bodies & ye denser without them, not to be terminated in a mathematical superficies, but to grow gradually into one another.

- Sir Isaac Newton

__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

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