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-   -   Big Joule Theif (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3609-big-joule-theif.html)

slayer007 01-18-2009 02:52 AM

Big Joule Theif
 
1 Attachment(s)
I got this idea after watching Lidmotors latest video.:thumbsup:

This is a basic joule theif circuit done with a big coil.
The coil I used is a trifilar coil.
It has a 23ga. bifilar winding 750 turns.
Then a 21ga. 450 turns wound on the out side of the two 23ga. windings.
With an iron core.
The + is the start of the coil and the - is the coil ending.

The interesting thing is when its running to place a magnet on the front of the coil.
Then it really takes off and you can hear the coil screeching.:cheers:

Inquorate 01-18-2009 03:14 AM

Big joule thief
 
Any idea what frequency it's running at? My self oscillating relay driving transistor switching for coil is beginning to drive me a touch loopy with all the noise, and I'm wondering if your system would be a good 'signal generator' - maybe vary the frequency with a few pots thrown into the mix, and charge a battery at the same time..

:thinking:

slayer007 01-18-2009 03:20 AM

@Inquorate

Sorry I really couldnt tell you what frequency its running at.

I know you could control it with a pot and moving the magnets around on the front of it do a lot to.

Inquorate 01-18-2009 03:28 AM

Frequency
 
Tnx anyway, I'll start winding a coil tonight, will post video of frequency etc, as usual you've made what seems a great circuit out of very little!

Lidmotor 01-18-2009 04:16 AM

New project
 
@ Slayer---Looks like I may be trying this tomorrow. The coil that I have used for your other circuits should work for this one. If we can get this to run a CFL and charge like the little joule thief -----WOW!!!:dance:


Lidmotor

slayer007 01-18-2009 04:25 AM

Here is a video I just upladed on you tube.

Notice the differance in voltage after a magnet is stuck to the front of the coil.
the back EMF was around 800 to a 1000 volts and the other winding was around 550 volts.
Then after the magnets were attached the voltage went off the board.

YouTube - Big Jouel Theif Slayer007

ApEkV2 01-18-2009 04:35 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Here are a few joule thief circuits I found on youtube.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Here is one that lights a cfl and two 90v neon bulbs
Attachment 1899

Here is the circuit to the above photo
Attachment 1900

These are not mine, I can't seem to get mine to work. I think I have my emitter-collector leads wrong. I am trying to use a B237 npn transistor T0126 package.

The photos are from overunity.com in one of the biggest threads I've ever seen. (141 pages!! I'm only on page 30)

Inquorate 01-18-2009 04:35 AM

Voltage divider
 
For how to measure voltage that's higher than a meter will go, see my post on 'capacitor Electret other' thread. It's really quite useful for hv

peper10 01-18-2009 05:34 PM

Draw vs output
 
Hi to everyone!!
I wonder what`s the draw on the primary??
If you hook the output trough the hv side of the car coil trough a sparkgap
is it possible to get it back to the primary on the lv side of the car coil???
As i can imagine,the output of the secondary is maybe 4000 volts..
Maybe Slayer can clarify this????
Anyway. Just knowing the draw on this system is a start!!!!!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :blowout:
Congradulation to Slayer for is succes.

Alain D

ApEkV2 01-18-2009 06:21 PM

I can't get my joule thief to work. Spent 6 hours on it and 4 different coil, transistor and resistor arrangements and got nothing. Tried the 2n2222, 2n3904, and bd237 to126 transistors.

What's wrong with these?

Removed the photo (upload space is filling up)

I'm using cat5 cable for two of the coils

EDIT - I only have one LED I could find, so I am using jumpers for it instead of soldering all the time

Vortex 01-18-2009 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApEkV2 (Post 42108)
I can't get my joule thief to work. Spent 6 hours on it and 4 different coil, transistor and resistor arrangements and got nothing. Tried the 2n2222, 2n3904, and bd237 to126 transistors.

What's wrong with these?
Attachment 1908

I'm using cat5 cable for two of the coils

EDIT - I only have one LED I could find, so I am using jumpers for it instead of soldering all the time

I had watched this video which said you must use one wire from each pair, opposite wires
off the toroid and solder those together.
For example: If you used a blue and red wire then solder together the blue from one pair and the red from the other pair.
You have soldered together a pair of wires, not one wire from each pair.

That's All I know about it not working.

slayer007 01-18-2009 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApEkV2 (Post 42108)
I can't get my joule thief to work. Spent 6 hours on it and 4 different coil, transistor and resistor arrangements and got nothing. Tried the 2n2222, 2n3904, and bd237 to126 transistors.

What's wrong with these?
Attachment 1908

I'm using cat5 cable for two of the coils

EDIT - I only have one LED I could find, so I am using jumpers for it instead of soldering all the time


@ApEkV2


It looks like you have your coil wired wrong.
According to the circuit I posted anyway.

Instead of wiring the coil ends togeather, wire them togeather from the start of the coil wire with the end one.

So the white and the orange wire would be togeather but one from one end of the coil and the other from the other end of the coil.

I hope that helps if you look at my circuit you can see I have the + of one coil and the - of the other going to the positive of the source.

ApEkV2 01-18-2009 09:14 PM

Fixed
 
1 Attachment(s)
That was the problem. Thanks for clearing that up for me Vortex and slayer007.
Here it is now the correct way. The sound they make are really cool.
I found the one circuit with the to126 package transistor worked the best out of the three.

Attachment 1913

That picture came out bad. But mainly the one in the middle with blue wire is easy to see the change. Thanks again.

theremart 01-18-2009 10:48 PM

How to make a jewel theif.
 
Guys,

You may find this video helpful

YouTube - Joule Thief (How to Make a) 005

He has a history of doing good videos and here he shows you step by step...

FYI. :thumbsup:

amigo 01-19-2009 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slayer007 (Post 42036)
Here is a video I just upladed on you tube.

Notice the differance in voltage after a magnet is stuck to the front of the coil.
the back EMF was around 800 to a 1000 volts and the other winding was around 550 volts.
Then after the magnets were attached the voltage went off the board.

YouTube - Big Jouel Theif Slayer007

Hi,

It sounds to me that you have dropped the operating frequency of your JT down to audible levels when you attached the magnets. At least that's what used to happen to me when I was playing with the JT circuits months ago.

Because the frequency is lower voltage went up and the coil is producing audible oscillations instead of ultrasonic. Maybe you should scope this out and see the waveforms, without and with the magnets...

Of course, use a x100 probe or the scope will squeak too, it's final breath :D

slayer007 01-19-2009 12:30 AM

Today I tried my small joule theif running off a 1.5v AA.
And hooked a big trifilar coil to it negative going to the transistor and positive
back to the positive on the AA battery.
Then the other two winding both had recifiers attached.
The voltage on one recifier was 4.4v and the other was 5.3v.

I then dumped both of them into a capacitor then hooked it up to a big 12v 80AH battery.
Its only been running for a little while I'll let you know if the voltage goes up in the big battery at all.
And the AA battery only had 1.17v to start.

Edit.
After about 40 min of running the voltage did go up a little well very little like only 100th of a volt.
But the voltage in the AA battery is still the same.
The voltage going to the cap was only from the second coil not the BEMF from the joul theif that is around 2 volts.

sucahyo 01-19-2009 01:42 AM

At 12 Volts, you can easily light up neon.
YouTube - Max BEMF at resonance neon with sound

I use 12V CT transformer, but surely this can be replaced with any winding.

At resonance I can get 100mA BEMF for charging or other thing from 260mA input.
YouTube - BEMF and current measurement

I use 100 ohm resistance for base of 2N3055. The frequency change according to charged battery condition but mostly the max BEMF happen when base resistance is low, I use 10K variable resistor.

The BEMF current reduced when the neon light up. I think there is little point of charging battery and lighting up neon at the same time. It is better to choose one of them. If we want to light up neon we should reduce input current as much as possible by using coil which has high resistance (high number of wound).

Lidmotor 01-19-2009 02:18 AM

Slayer's Big Joule Thief---My replication
 
Well I made the "BIG ONE" today. I hope that other people do this one. Its a really good one. I changed a few things ---added a CFL where the bridge rectifier was and rewired the coils a bit. It is a little different than the little joule thief but maybe even better.:thinking:
Here is the video of it with scope shots and sounds::blowout:

YouTube - Slayer's Big Joule Thief --My Replication

Lidmotor

slayer007 01-19-2009 03:12 AM

@Lidmotor

Very Nice video:thumbsup:

Did you try puting a magnet by the coil and see what happens on the scope?

sucahyo 01-19-2009 03:32 AM

1 Attachment(s)
One week ago I discover that Joule Thief work for me when Multivibrator failed. Both charging and neon lighting capability is much better than relay.

I hope with a famous person like Lidmotor making the video, there will be more people see the potential of joule thief and improve it.

For battery charging ability it outperform relay. Charging is very rapid, 4.4V to 8.4V in 3 hour if we remove the neon. mbrownn from imhotepforum advise me that I ruin my battery because of this. Since its broken already, I currently charging it with 150mA BEMF.

@Lidmotor, I think you can still light up the neon even without car coil attached to the third coil.

Lidmotor 01-19-2009 05:58 PM

Rewiring the trifilar coil
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sucahyo (Post 42167)
One week ago I discover that Joule Thief work for me when Multivibrator failed. Both charging and neon lighting capability is much better than relay.

I hope with a famous person like Lidmotor making the video, there will be more people see the potential of joule thief and improve it.

For battery charging ability it outperform relay. Charging is very rapid, 4.4V to 8.4V in 3 hour if we remove the neon. mbrownn from imhotepforum advise me that I ruin my battery because of this. Since its broken already, I currently charging it with 150mA BEMF.

@Lidmotor, I think you can still light up the neon even without car coil attached to the third coil.

@sucahyo---The way my trifilar is built I am using the CFL driver third coil like a step down transformer. This gave me LESS voltage but more current to drive the ignition coil. I tried all the different combinations of the three coils before I came up with this way of doing it. I was surprised to see the trifilar go into self- oscillation with different coil combinations. This trifilar could be "engineered" into a specific efficient design for this device using math formulas. Why oh why didn't I pay more attention to that boring EE instructor when I was in school.:rofl:

sucahyo 01-20-2009 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lidmotor (Post 42211)
@sucahyo---The way my trifilar is built I am using the CFL driver third coil like a step down transformer. This gave me LESS voltage but more current to drive the ignition coil.

I see. How about using the car coil directly?

If you modify your car coil by adding center tap, you can make it compatible with joule thief circuit and use it directly without additional coil. I think with car coil high voltage amplification, when you get resonance frequency by changing the base resistance, you can light up several CFL at once and also charging a battery.

I don't know if it would be easy though. Opening the case, finding the primary center, scratch it and solder a cable to it, checking the similarity of the resistance to primary negative and positive, add additional terminal, close it again. The we connect the positive to base resistor, the negative to collector and BEMF load, the center tap to source positive.

Inquorate 01-20-2009 02:17 AM

Orange neon flashing purple with big julie circuit
 
Just thought I'd share this, effect hard but not impossible to reproduce, all the contacts have to be clean and gotta move the clip where it is on the neon.

But in effect, this system behaves differently at switch on than when running.

I'd love to see the waveform of purple flash moment on an Oscilloscope.. :-)

Setup
YouTube - Inquorate 24 - slayer's big joule thief

Effect
YouTube - Inquorate 25

Mutten 01-20-2009 02:20 AM

After I get settled in I am going to build a mini JT and see if I can get it to trigger a 2n3055 to pulse my ignition coil backed by a 12v SLA. I'm still messing around with my tesla coil and I want bigger sparks:eek:

After I saw Lidmotors scop shots last night, it might work.

Also picked up some disposable camera housings from CVS. They gave me a handful of them for free. Was reading on OU forum people were modifying them to get the same effect. Made it to page 98 last night with some heavy skimming.

Inquorate 01-20-2009 02:22 AM

Video doesn't really capture the brilliance
 
In the video you can only see the light reflecting on the carpet, but in real life the globe goes super purple. Worth fiddling with till you see it :-)

Inquorate 01-20-2009 02:25 AM

Video doesn't really capture the brilliance
 
In the video you can only see the light reflecting on the carpet, but in real life the globe goes super purple. Worth fiddling with till you see it :-)

Oh and I believe it happens when switch on off is super quick, once orange glow shows up contact is too long.

Inquorate 01-20-2009 04:12 AM

Can't edit my posts, sorry
 
Reposted videos to youtube, here's updated links

YouTube - Inquorate 24 - slayer's big joule thief

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=NGGd9tJGx0c

YouTube - brighter purple flashes

sucahyo 01-20-2009 04:52 AM

@Inquorate, I also got purple light on my cfl. That is the sign of high BEMF. When the BEMF is high, the CFL show some slight purple color.

Here is the video:
YouTube - Purple ligth shown when BEMF is high


@Mutten, I think you can use your tesla coil too. My circuit with tesla bifilar flat spiral coil produce more bemf than the one with tubular air core coil.

slayer007 01-20-2009 02:22 PM

Here is a video of a little joule theif with a transformer attached to it.
You can allso add more coils or transformers to it.

This can allso be done with the big joule theif.:)

YouTube - Joule Theif & Transformer

Mutten 01-20-2009 06:03 PM

Shamelessly borrowed from OU.com but I went with the disposable camera circuit for a quick and dirty method of playing around with the JT.

I wanted to see if I could get the circuit to trigger the base of a 2n3055 backed by a 12v SLA to power my tesla coil.

Either the duty cycle is too short or the frequency is too high but I can' get any kind of useful spark even though the 3055 is getting pretty hot.

just FYI if anyone tries this, check your transistor on the camera board. Mine was a D2470 and the pin outs are E C B. I've got a 100ohm resistor at the Base of the 2n3055 triggered by the collector (center pin) from the D2470.


Ignore the top half of the breadboard, that's just my 555 driver circuit I've been playing with, its disconnected in this pic.

stack of pennys are just a heatsink. I've found they help and they sit nicely on the top of the 3055.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...groo/tesla.jpg


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