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  • Tesla's wireless electricity transmission

    Hi all.
    Yesterday I started to read Tesla's patents (thanks slayer007) especially those about one wire/wireless enegry transmission.This is very interesting stuff to read, but still, there are some things that I don't understand entirely So lets start with the one wire transmission patent (593,138).



    Tesla used a one layer pancake coil as the secondary of the transmitter and as the primary of the reciever. He used the pancake coil because of its geometry. A coil wound in such manner has high inductance and low resistance. Such a coil can develop very high voltages on the center wire end. Tesla stated that he could make the secondary voltage up to 1000 times greater than the primary voltage. The primary should be wound using a wire of certain length depending on the oscillation frequency that you will be using. He suggests that the wire length should be 1/4 of the wavelength. That means that if eceltricity flows through a wire at the speed of light, that is about 300 000 kilometers per second and you want to use an oscillation frequency of 300KHz, the wavelength will be 1km thus 250m of wire should be used for both the recieving and transmitting pancake coils. Tesla statet that you can use a core in the center of the pancake coil if you want. The primary coil of the transmitter has only few turns of heavier gauge wire wound around the outer perimeter of the pancake coil. The low tension wire end of the pancake coil is connected to the primary coil and then grounded, this is only for safety reasons. The reciever coils are exactly the same in proportions and wire lengths. But here instead the primary coil is the pancake coil and the secondary coil is the low voltage coil. And you can attach the load to the low voltage secondary coil. Also here the primary and secondary coils are grounded. Tesla does not talk much about the power source of the transmitter, it is just said, that it operates at high frequency and high voltage, probably just enough for a spark to jump across the spark gap. He said that he charged up a capacitor and then just discharged it into the primary coil on each impulse. There are also nothing said about the primary and secondary coil ratio. We know that the secondary should be wound from a wire that is 1/4 wavelength, but nothing is said about the turn count of the primary. Why? Is ist not important? Or should it only be mass matched?
    Anyway, now to the next patent (645,576):



    In this patent Tesla says, that if natural mediums, such as air, is subjected to disturbances of high potential and high frequency, the medium becomes a conductor and you can use that to transmit energy through it. This time there are no wires, the basic setup is the same, but now there is a capacity attached to the high tension wire of the secondary of the transmitter. Telsa states that the capacity, preferably in a spherical form, should be elevated in air as much as possible for best results. Also the reciever coils are the mirror image of the transmitter coils. And the heavy gauge coils are not grounded. The high frequency high voltage oscillations excite the air around the elevated capacity and this makes some stratas or chanells of rarified (or ionized?) air to appear through which electricity can flow at great distances almost without any losses.

    There are much more info in the patent and I encourage everyone to read it.
    So I guess that if you want to experiment with these things, you will need a variable high voltage capacitor, a high voltage power supply and of course the coils. One could simply use a neon sign HV power supply as the power source, but the problem is its frequency, because they usually operate at 50/60Hz, that means that the the coil wire length should be 1/4 of the wavelength, then at 50Hz you would need 1500km of wire Obviously that is not very practical. The higher the frequency the shorter wire is needed for the secondary coil. So I guess that 200-300KHz could be a good operation frequency, but how to achieve this? I suppose that this could be achieved if the output of the NST is rectified and filtered with a high value cap. Then the power from this HV filter cap could charge up a smaller value HV cap through an inductor and blocking diode.

    This is called resonant charging and you can read more about that here:
    DC Tesla Coil design

    This way we can charge up the smaller capacity cap to a breakdown voltage that is required for the spark to jump across the spark gap. The spark will jump the gap and discharge the cap and then the cap starts to charge up again. So the discharge frequency here would be limited only by the cap value. And you would be able to adjust the discharge frequency by varying the spark gap length and capacitor capacity. Here's where the variable HV cap becomes useful. Could this work? What else could you suggest for a person who wants to play around with these things? I thought that maybe some magnets for quenching the spark would be advisable or submersing the spark in oil to achieve better results. Any ideas? suggestions?
    Thank you
    Last edited by Jetijs; 01-10-2009, 12:23 PM.
    It's better to wear off by working than to rust by doing nothing.

  • #2
    Re wireless

    Haven't read all of your post, missus saying it's bed time... And I'm way under the thumb :-(

    But touch should check out Boxa888's videos on youtube if you're interested in tesla wireless transmission of power.
    Atoms move for free. It's all about resonance and phase. Make the circuit open and build a generator.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Jet

      Good to see you diving into the good ole stuff!

      I have been building a basic Tesla coil lately for some HV experiments, I am considering using a Neon Sign transformer to make things easy to start with.

      Also check out British Patent 8575 along with others regarding the use of HV for lighting purposes (sometimes reffered to as 1 wire)

      Best page for his patents IMO is this one KeelyNet Patents.

      The matching of coil geometry is new ground for me too. Id imagine that one would try to match the mass from the primary to the secondary, I remember All-Canadian talking about one of his experiments regarding this once. He has the secondary pancake surrounded by a single turn of copper strip I think for the primary.

      Didnt you build a Tesla coil a while ago Jet? Care to offer any info?
      "Once you've come to the conclusion that what what you know already is all you need to know, then you have a degree in disinterest." - John Dobson

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks Inquorate and ren
        In one of his lectures about light effect of high voltage and high frequency electricity, Tesla stated that you can use either AC or DC as the primary power source. If you use an AC generator, then the frequency limit is the frequency that the AC generator puts out and that depends on the RPM's. But with pure HV DC the thing that determines the discharge frequency is the cap size, the smaller the capacity, the faster it charges up till the voltage that is enough to jump the spark gap. Yesterday I spend much time reading Tesla's patents, when I was done, I realized that it is already 5:00AM

        ren, I have built a Tesla coil a while ago, but then I didn't know nothing about this stuff it was just like "monkey see, monkey do" thing. I had a secondary of 1000 turns of 0.5mm wire wrapped around 40mm diameter plastic tube. And the primary was a heavy wire of about 5 turns. The power supply was a NST at 12kV 30mA and I adjusted the HV caps in parallel of the HV AC output till I got the longest sparks. Depending on the ground quality (on different locations the results were different) the best result I was able to achieve was about 18cm long sparks. But that was just for fun
        It's better to wear off by working than to rust by doing nothing.

        Comment


        • #5
          I glad more people are experimenting in this field.

          I also started experimenting in this area.

          YouTube - Tesla Wireless Power Trasmitter

          Comment


          • #6
            Output Resistor?

            @Jetijs:

            The speed of light, and hence electricity, varies with the density of the medium. In copper, it's around 100,000 miles per second. This might be useful for your calculations.

            Also, I find it interesting that the motors in Tesla's reciever are wired in parallel with the lights. PT Farnsworth, who invented the TV and the Multipactor, always took his output across a heavy resistor.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by cabetcl View Post
              I glad more people are experimenting in this field.

              I also started experimenting in this area.

              YouTube - Tesla Wireless Power Trasmitter
              I liked that video, it shows how easy it is to be fooled into thinking something known is happening when it is really unknown.

              @all,
              Eric Dollard and Konstantin Meyl has reproduced Tesla's wireless electricity transmission
              PowerPedia:Eric Dollard - PESWiki
              Dollard shows how they built the transmitter and receiver they used.

              Randy
              Remember to be kind to your mind ...
              Tesla quoting Buddha: "Ignorance is the greatest evil in the world."

              Comment


              • #8
                Dollard states Tesla actually made a mistake. The surface area of the primary and secondary should be equal. And Dollard knows. Remember first came Tesla, then Steinmetz, then Dollard and now Meyl. All of them should be studied carefully.

                Look at the conjugate geometry of The Tesla system, maybe the transformer is not optimal, surely the ground part is more complicated than a simple cube... I guess the patent leaves many things out to discover for oneself. If anybody has the drawing of the underground chambers of Wardenclyffe I would be the first one to have a look....

                Comment


                • #9
                  Another interesting feature is the dielectric sphere that turns into a conductor over time..... What was it they called it, cold fusion?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Jetijs et al.,

                    Like others here I have been contemplating the "mysteries" of wireless electricity for a while now. I agree that Tesla is at times pretty ambigous about certain aspects of his sytems. Either he presumes anyone reading already knows and it's common knowledge, or it's one of those patent langauge catch-alls where the ambigous language is done on purpose.

                    I wouldn't say Tesla made mistakes because things he done had a purpose and we really don't know what was going on through his mind. What I could gather from reading materials on the subject is that he was not necessarely going after resonance in his setups.

                    Mass matching, impedance matching etc. were all important factors for some setups but not the others. He later discovered that geometry played a very important role in the capture, distrubution and release of the RE, it being a surface effect. That's why we see the original pancake coils stretched into the third dimension becoming cones, for example.

                    Anyways I don't want to preach to the quire here...

                    What I find most fascinating is not Dollard or Meyl, although they have their own successful theories and work based on Tesla, that's where they stop.

                    Gerry Vassilatos's writings on Tesla I have found to be of an immense help in figuring out what was going on. Time and time again I go back to thinking what I have read in the "Secrets of Cold War Technology" and "The Lost Science" and ever slightly deeper understanding of the subject occurs, as if a new light is shed yet from another angle.

                    I speak from my personal experience and purely based on an instinct (a huntch if you wish, or a gut feeling) but I believe there are more "answers" to be found in Vassilatos's books than in Dollard's or Meyl's works combined.

                    But you have to read the books cover to cover, don't skip the parts that are not about Tesla. I say this because it appears to me that Vassilatos, intentionally or not, had put together seemingly dis-similar subjects into a collage that creates a new picture of our environment combining quantitative and qualitative sciences (you all do know Tesla was a "sensitive" as well and I dare to say he might had been able to see these subtle forces at work when performing his experiments?).

                    What I'm trying to say is that it seems (to me) to be all one and the same "thing" they all talk about, whether it's Mesmer, Reichenbach, Meucci, Stubblefield, Tesla, Rife, Moray, Brown or Farnsworth. The "thing" I refer to being the Aether, Od, Orgone, or whatever other name it was given to it over the ages.

                    To finish this long winding post with something practical, I have considered making pancake coils using litz magnet wire. The one I bought has 13 strands of 30 AWG twisted together, from this seller on eBay: LITZ WIRE 13-30AWG 24 TPF 300FT - eBay (item 370140887826 end time Jan-13-09 07:47:42 PST)

                    At 400 ft length I bought, if I use the whole spool that would give me in actuality 13x200 ft or 2,600 ft (each coil of receiver and transmitter). Full wave makes that 10,400 ft or 94.57 KHz at the speed of light, or 50.77 KHz at 100,000 miles/sec through copper (as per Electrotek above).

                    This sounds much more managable and "doable" than 300KHz+ HV sources needed to drive it for the straight non-litz wire.

                    Of course I could be all wrong in thinking this can be done and I'd appreciate feedback on my idea/calculations...
                    Last edited by amigo; 01-11-2009, 03:20 PM.
                    Are the ravings of a lunatic signs of a genius?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Vector Inversion

                      @Amigo:

                      If you're thinking about making a pancake coil with multistrand wire, you might consider incorporating an effect known as vector inversion. This would be similar to using Tesla's bifilar pancake coil as the transformer secondary, in this situation, rather than the single wire coil he specifies in these patents. When one wire is brought out from the center and connected to another wire going back inwards, the two wires of the spiral become a capacitor. In fact Tesla shows how much energy can be stored between the two wires, capacitively, using this arrangement.

                      Vector inversion is an effect which uses a spiral wound capacitor itself as a transformer. When it is charged, then one end is shorted, a pulse travels around the spiral. Each time the pulse makes one complete turn, its voltage is increased by the original amount on the capacitor. The voltage step-up is limited to around a hundred times. Efficiency is usually around 60%, but that relys on building the cap so that each wind has about the same length. Without leaving a large opening in the center, with the wires going all the way in, the efficiency would drop quite a bit. This would be made up for, transformer wise, by the increasing number of turns, per unit area, near the center.

                      Tesla's wireless power transmission relied on producing a high enough voltage for the effect to be practical. Using a multi winding pancake coil as the secondary might maximize the voltage.

                      Patent #4608521 shows the basic effect.

                      Patent #5567995 shows an extreme example, using multiple windings.

                      Patent #4507567 shows a High Voltage version.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Dollard also mentions using the outer coaxial cable layer for the high voltage windings. Because of the extreme high voltages the skin effect will be very prominant and thus area is more important than density.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Meyl used only 2 volts at the source and transmited at 7.2 Mkz
                          Remember to be kind to your mind ...
                          Tesla quoting Buddha: "Ignorance is the greatest evil in the world."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I am thinking about a new pancake idea. Imagine a HV, HF transformer secondary with Litz wire. One wire goes straight into the pancake, the other one you ground before the pancake. Then run them in parallell all through the pancake into the center and out again 2 times getting a quadfilar. At the center you get a spark gap between the 2 wires. Put the whole pancake in the Gray tube grids with an inductive receiver connected to a load. Any thoughts? I feel like the pancake apps leaves somethins very important out, it is merely used as a transformer and I believe it is a mistake, why not use it as cold wave generator in one piece? Simpler version would be to use 2 pancakes and collide the waves from both.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi Electrotek,

                              Thanks for the suggestion though I am not clear would I use the litz wire to form the capacitance or would it be some spiral wound metal ribbon (looking at some of the illustrations of the patents)?

                              I will have to read up more on the Vector Inversion effect from these patents and then some (and hopefully get some grasp of it)

                              My idea with the pancake coil and litz wire was to simply go back to back and feed one end into another's beginning, ten times to achieve sufficient length. How to achieve this Vector Inversion effect in that configuration is beyond me at the moment...
                              Are the ravings of a lunatic signs of a genius?

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