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-   -   Magnet switch torque amplifier. (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20649-magnet-switch-torque-amplifier.html)

Allen Burgess 12-01-2016 05:21 AM

Magnet switch torque amplifier.
New permanent magnet video from Gotoluc:


Clear magnet shear OU proof. Let's review the "Magnet switch" once again:

We should measure a difference between the force it takes to engage the magnet switch lever, and the repulsive force imparted to a magnet set against the switch in opposition. The repulsion magnet can easily act as a piston plunger to pressurize a hydraulic tank to store power. The ratio of switch force to holding strength is non linear.

Gotoluc presents hard evidence for gain. Overunity is a reality! It would be that simple to harness the principle, and very easy to measure the gain percentage from the shear advantage with the magnet switch and repulsive piston. Way to go Luc!

Allen Burgess 12-01-2016 01:34 PM

Magnetic chuck.
I was educated about the "Magnetic chuck" by user Pirate88179 over at the Overunity site. They work the same way as the switch. The one pictured below can exert 60, 000 pounds of force. Imagine two, one over the other in opposition. Gotoluc proves at least a 20% gain. 20% of 120,000 lbs would come out to 2,400 pounds of free force per power stroke! 4 lbs in delivers 5 lbs back!

A fulcrum lever can operate a flywheel. Some of these "Chucks" operate electrically.

SlickDick 12-01-2016 02:00 PM

There is too much error in measurement to call this proof.

RAMSET 12-01-2016 02:32 PM

the purpose of Floor's Twist drive [TD] presentations ,which Luc is replicating.
are to engage critique , not to run from it.

any contributions towards a proper vetting of this claim are surely welcomed !

Here is floor's original topic "Work from 2 magnets > 19%" which should be used for general discussions:
Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2

and another topic called "Magnets, motion and measurement" was created for beginners to discuss basic physics:
Magnets, motion and measurement

And the thread started by Floor for TWIST DRIVE {TD} replications , where Luc's build is presently under discussion .
TD replications

I am not certain if there is a topic here for this Yet [dedicated topic]
but I will be sure to run your suggestions [or any others] past Floor and this replicator Luc

with sincerity and respect
Chet K
I must add
this work is and always has been open sourced by Floor
with many many hours of investigation over many years , a truly wonderful fellow with the best of intentions for this world !

Allen Burgess 12-01-2016 06:05 PM

(with many many hours of investigation over many years)

Thanks to Floor, but he's still re-inventing the "Wheel"! Shear advantage over pry force has been a central principle driving the entire "Magnet Switch Industry", since before Stonehenge. What's been missing from the sector engineers is the kind of strict disciplined scientic approach to these measurements that both Floor and Gotoluc excel at. The corporate engineers conspire to conceal the OU, while promoting the advantage of the switch simultaneously.

One engineer explained to me that it takes the same force to turn the switch on a 10 lb force unit as it does a 100 lb pull force unit. The pressure of alignment is exceeded by the pressure of the married forces in a logrythemic fashion.

Allen Burgess 12-02-2016 10:01 AM

Twin opposing "Chucks".
Two magnet blocks, as pictured below, reversed and placed face to face would act as a complete test bed. One block will act like a piston from the repulsion when switched on. We can measure the force required to turn the switch with a sping scale, and then measure the magnetic repulsion between the two chucks the same way, with sping scales..

The non-linear relationship between the throw force of the switch and amount of magnetic repulsion force between the Chucks demands an OU output at some range.

citfta 12-02-2016 11:31 AM

[QUOTE=Allen Burgess;295559
One engineer explained to me that it takes the same force to turn the switch on a 10 lb force unit as it does a 100 lb pull force unit. The pressure of alignment is exceeded by the pressure of the married forces in a logrythemic fashion.[/QUOTE]

The engineer that told you that was totally full of crap. I have worked on many of those units and the larger units take many times the force of the smaller units to turn them on and off. That is why the handle on the larger units is longer than the handle on the smaller units.

Allen Burgess 12-02-2016 02:43 PM

Answers to your question "Is the switch harder to turn on and off then the model with less holding force?" from 3 NOGA engineers:

Kevin answered:

"No the switch turns on off the same as the smaller size"

Selecio Gonzalez answered:

"all the same"

Kevin Wilshire answered:

"Not in my opinion, I have two different models."

lota 12-02-2016 07:26 PM

This is the same principle. I think.


Allen Burgess 12-03-2016 10:19 AM

This is really simple to understand: Take one small magnet switch and place it over permenent magnets in opposition and equal to it in strength. We can measure the repulsion force when we turn the switch holder to "on".

Now, we can increase the repulsion force by adding permanent magnets to the base, without effecting the pressure required to throw the switch on the holder.

In this case; The force on the holder switch lever has nothing to do with the level of magnetic force released through the stators. Just like a transistor base and power source.

Placing any one of those magnet switches over a strong enough permanent horseshoe magnet would produce an Overunity torque amplifier.

Allen Burgess 12-03-2016 03:00 PM

Luc's flux gate pump.

Two of these Flux gate units, end to end, turned so the fields are in opposition would make a simple over unity motor. Luc says it just takes 2.3 Joules to switch the flux gate. The repulsive force from the opposition of the fields with a tiny piston throw, could be millions of times Overunity!

The moving piston can pump a wide circumference pancake diaphragm and store the huge amount of hydrolyic pressure.

Allen Burgess 12-03-2016 04:29 PM

Double stroke pump.
Wireing one flux gate coil to reverse current would give the motor an attraction event to power a double stroke pump. May fail to work, just a quick idea.

jim glinski 12-04-2016 04:09 AM

switching problem
The bug in the soup is that the system of rotating mass has to collect the energy then release it fast to switch it at the best point to not brake the energy of the wheel then switch it back on again .load and release and the mag switch needs to be real close to the wheel . if you stack many magnets up the field extension is greater put two thick pieces of steel on them parrell to the one on each side extending out to the wheel and out behind the pair cutting the ends at a 45 % angles inwardly and put some tape on the steel pieces between the mag's and the steel how many ?? Test test test then put a small piece of steel cut on 45 again on the rear end making a flux controlling switch can need a some tape on the small steel piece if it locks up to much this is controlling the flux and will shut it down and give reach to the wheel . flux intensity and steel thickness is tricky . good hunting .

jim glinski 12-04-2016 04:26 AM

Have read about the magnetic Wankel from Japan many years ago the magnet would track in a circular path next to a steel or magnetic track getting closer all the time till back at top dead center a electro mag would fire and send it on its way .why not use a toriotial coil and pulse it dead to flux like Stearns . they say they were OU.

Allen Burgess 12-04-2016 01:34 PM

Scotch yoke.
Gotoluc proposed an attraction rotary motor concept for his flux gate. I simplified that into a repulsion reciprocator.

Four flux gate switch's could run a reciprocating motor with a "Scotch Yoke" for circular output.

Two flux gate switches on a linear glide tracks, end to end, could be powered by two stationary ones at each end. The repulsion throw can be controlled by increasing tthe magnet strength in the flux gate stators. Tthe "Scotch Yoke" can convert the linear to rotary motion. This motor could scale up to generate any amount of free power due to "Switch cost non-linearity".

Allen Burgess 12-06-2016 10:15 AM

Wiring simplicity.
"U" Coils facing like so: [ ][ ] The two center on a gliding rail.

A contact at each end of the throw can energize all four of the coils simultaneously. The push switch's stay magnetized untill they're shut off by the opposite power surge. One pulse would turn both push coils off and magnetize the two idle coils at the same time. So the motor would have two power pulses in, to all four coils at the end of each transit. Perfect self regulated timing. Just load and fire the same value capacitor through the two contacts serially.

Just imagine two disk capacitor electrodes, one on each end , contacting the four wire coil electrodes. One capacitor and the coil wire contact points on each end.

Allen Burgess 12-07-2016 09:08 AM

Glide track electrodes.
It occured to me that all we need to do is connect the four coil leads to the "Glide Track". Then all we need to do is shock the glide track with a capacitor pulse when the carriage is at the high and low points. This will flip the polarity of all four Alnico magnets simultaneously. The glide rails would need to be wired in series with the capacitor, and it can be contact triggered by the mechanisem.

Allen Burgess 12-07-2016 01:43 PM

The stationary flux gates on the ends can connect their coil wires permenently to the bases of the glide rails. The twin "Gate Traveler" coils can connect in series and make contact with the glide rails through two copper brushes.

One capacitor can power the motor with two Reed switches, shorting the capacitor to the glide rails at the closed ends. We need a battery to keep the capacitor charged.

Allen Burgess 12-07-2016 03:08 PM

DPDT Reed switch.
One current reversing DPDT Reed switch would be needed between the capacitor and glide rails. A better way would be to just add a capacitor: One capacitor reverse polarity and two Reed switches.

Allen Burgess 12-09-2016 03:55 PM

limit switchs.
Two of these rugged Glide Rail "Limit Switches" could deliver an inverted power spike directly from two D.C. batteries of reversed polarity:

Allen Burgess 12-11-2016 02:51 PM

Latching relay.
Luc designed his version of the circuit. We need to test the four flux gate variety.


Allen Burgess 12-18-2016 02:26 PM

Current reversing glide rails.
Gotoluc has a current reversing circuit triggered at the ends of the stroke that slides an electro magnetic coil between two magnet stators.

The same "Mostly Permanent Magnet" circuit can power the overunity version too: It would need to have eight flux gate coil wires going; Four to each glide rail by contacts. The Alnico polarities would be reversed on each end pair of the flux gate units; So the same actuator reversal pulse would shut one side off and the other on at the rail ends.. We just need to gang the "Flux Gates" up and re-direct the wiring. Motor layout: [ ][ ]

This motor would be powered by the permanent magnets, not an electro-magnetic coil field. The measure of Overunity would be measurable in watts to gauss comparisons.

Allen Burgess 12-18-2016 03:00 PM

Flux Gate MEG.
What would happen if we wrapped a ferrite stator a with an output coil and fixed it accross the flux gate stators so the flux entered and left the output coil? We would gain the amount of flux from the permanent neo magnet field transiting the stator output windings, independent of the miniscule alnico trigger pulse to direct the larger field.

The "Flux Gate" turns into an MEG limited by core saturation levels and BH curve. The gain in output would be equivilent to the electrical power that it would requie to generate an equal amount of magnetic field in the wire coil as in the neo magnet.

There's two ways to measure and cross check the output. One involves running current backwards through the output coil and measuring the magnetic field.

Allen Burgess 12-19-2016 05:35 PM

metglass u core
Wrap each side with copper windings and position the neo and alnico coil magnets, one at the top the other at the bottom. Voila!

Allen Burgess 12-21-2016 01:15 PM

Polarity reversal.
"Electrical induction occurs when there is a sudden change in magnetic field".

The "Alnico Magnet Pole Reversal" must generate a charge in the trigger coil. There's a strong chance that the charge from the sudden Pole Shift in the "Alnico Magnet" is an overunity effect in itself.

I bet the trigger coil around the "Alnico magnet" generates a strong charge from the magnetic pole reversal alone. A diode and capacitor on the coil electrodes may generate enough power to "Spark Shift" the field again by itself! It only needs to generate 2 or 3 Joules! We need a power comparison.

Look at the flux agitation below:

Allen Burgess 12-22-2016 01:16 PM

Flux Gate Output Ratio.
A pulse triggered magnet polarity flip should equal the output one strong half turn of the alnico magnet would generate inside the output coil. The miniscule amount of electrical power to flip the field is way too small to physically rotate the magnet and fight "Lenz Drag". There's gain in the transaction.

The difference in force between the two reversal approaches is the % of OU COP.

Allen Burgess 12-23-2016 12:13 PM

Nested Flux Gates.
We can magnify the force by using an entire flux gate in place of an alnico trigger in a scaled up neo stator a hundred times the size. We can control tons of permanent magnet force with a few joules of input. The input may itself be generated from pole reversal trigger output. This engine could power a freight train and run for free!

Allen Burgess 12-23-2016 02:05 PM

Nested flux gates same input..
Three flux gates sized so two interlace on a perpendicular "T", each larger stator with a new neo magnet equal in strength to the combined neo and alnico of the trigger. The third would quadruple the magnet force from the largest set of stators, zig zagging dovetail. The "Quadrupling" of controllable magnet force, would involve no additional input to the first alnico trigger coil.

Allen Burgess 12-23-2016 03:14 PM

Flux gate MEG.
The force to open and close the hinge is equaled by the 2 Joule pole reversal pulse in the alnico coil:


A fourth tier in the flux gate chain can have output coils accross the final stator like the hinge video; The trick is; It takes the same 2 Joules to pull our "Hinge" from magnets 4 times as strong!

The gain of the pole reversal pulse should be equal to the increase in decoupling force of the hinge as the magnet strength grows. That's the gain in magnet force.

The output from the collapsing field, illuminating an LED in the "hinge" video, has to exceed the input Joules to the alnico coil from an escalated flux gate stator output coil of some magnitude. The power from the shifting magnet field would remain available for the major work.

Allen Burgess 12-25-2016 02:34 PM

1st Flux ladder rung.
Here's a drawing of the first 4X dovetailing flux rung for the spiral cube. You can visualize a third one; Etcetera ad infinitum. At some tier juncture, the "Hinge MEG" generated type output power should grow larger then the "Alnico Coil " trigger pulse: Look at the double diameter of the Neo base magnet on the 2nd tier in the sketch below: Same cost for the alnico pole flip, and 4X the magnet force: 6 tiers equals 64 times the magnet force, for the same switch power!

Many tons of gated permanent magnet force could do major work on a pump diaphram, pendulum, Scotch Yoke, hydrolysis etc after we loop the self generated trigger pulse. Major utility potential: Power a Freight Train, Submarine or Space Station with zero input.

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