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**gmeat** · 06-01-2008, 09:39 PM

hi Bob,

I dont believe that would work because the electric pump would just be a circulating system whatever you pump out will cause all of the containers to want to collapse.

-Gary

**ANTIQUER** · 06-01-2008, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by bobo36us View Post

You must click on all three. Short and easy reads.

http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/free1.htm
http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/free2.htm
http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/free3.htm

Thoughts?????

Don't know how much energy you can get from those 3 waterwheels, but you are dealing more with atmospheric pressure & the weight of the water than with gravity. However, that is an interesting concept. You might want to hook a mechanical pump in somewhere that the waterwheels powered without an electric motor. I saw one years ago that you initially spun the wheel by hand & it then ran on it's own from the weight of the water hitting it & the inertia of the wheel(acted like a big flywheel). This was a wheel approx. 6' in diam. which I saw run for years on it's own. You could probably use a hand crank on the exposed end of the 1st shaft to get it started.

**Chip Shorter** · 06-02-2008, 12:37 AM

I think Dr. Lindemann is doing research on Johann Bessler who in 1712 had a self running gravity wheel. It ran for 54 days.
Also Nebojsa Simin has a pendulum that is claimed highly efficient/OU. Gravity like magnets is always on.
Seems to me if we couple these with devices that we know of on this board to be highly efficient we could go OU very easily.

**selamatg** · 06-02-2008, 01:47 AM

This other Idea.....

Hi All,

Here is the other idea without using any pump...this will continue flow and you can built as scale as you want...

Sorry this only quick drawing...

Step one as pic 1.jpg

Fill up the tank with 80% of the capacity (left 20% for air) all must be sealed..
close all valve (1-4 valve) all pipe use same size ..for 55 gallon drum size your maximum pipe size should be 5/8"

step two as pic 2.jpg

open valve #1, fill up the pipe as picture shown then close the valve back.

Step three as pic. 3.jpg

Open valve #2 full then open valve #3 slowly..wait for a few second till decrease the flow from valve #3 ( I recommend between 5-10 second for 55 gallon drum size) to create vacuum condition.

Step four as pic.4.jpg

Open valve #4....then you will have water flowing from inlet pipe to the thank and the output flow from the thank increasing by slowly....

the flow is depend of how long the inlet pipe..I'll recommend no more than 10 mtr below the tank.

Hope you all understand with the explanation because English is not my first language.

Regards,

Selamatg

Attached Files

**Jan H** · 06-03-2008, 05:53 PM

how about the energy needed for the pump to fight the air trying to get in?

this sounds too good to be true guys.
Is there an actual movie of this machine? Because drawing with paint is one thing. Making something actually work is another.

**selamatg** · 06-05-2008, 03:30 AM

That really work

Hi,

I have seen that system work about 15 years ago....
There is in small village in East Java.

I hope not any miss with my drawing.

Also I have made the small replication 1 year after and work too..
Using 6 liter water tank and 4mm water hose

Regards,

Selamatg

**Jetijs** · 06-05-2008, 01:24 PM

So, if I understand correctly, the gravity pulls the water out form the big tank, creating vacuum in the same time. The vacuum then pulls the water up form the other pipe and refills the tank and so on. In other words we have a water pump, that works forever? Did I understand right?

**selamatg** · 06-05-2008, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by Jetijs View Post

So, if I understand correctly, the gravity pulls the water out form the big tank, creating vacuum in the same time. The vacuum then pulls the water up form the other pipe and refills the tank and so on. In other words we have a water pump, that works forever? Did I understand right?

Hi Jetijs,

You are right, that how the work...continue as the vacuum stay there, in other word no leaking in the system. but the important thing is do not open valve #4 before you sure vacuum create in the tank by looking the low flow from valve #3 or you can put vacuum gauge on top of the tank.

regards,
Selamatg

**Jan H** · 06-05-2008, 05:24 PM

how can the vacuum created by the water be strong enough to lift up water that is positioned lower than the main tank?
I'm sorry if i sound skeptical, but I still find it hard to believe that a bottle and a hose can win the one watt challenge.
Because if it does what you say it does. Than hooking up a water wheel-generator on the flow would be a piece of cake.

**selamatg** · 06-05-2008, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by Jan H View Post

how can the vacuum created by the water be strong enough to lift up water that is positioned lower than the main tank?
I'm sorry if i sound skeptical, but I still find it hard to believe that a bottle and a hose can win the one watt challenge.
Because if it does what you say it does. Than hooking up a water wheel-generator on the flow would be a piece of cake.

Because the vacuum happen in larger diameter and water on the pipe just maintenance the vacuum (to keep water output from valve #3 flowing). that in my understanding.

very important you should create high vacuum condition first before open valve #4.

regards,
selamatg

**Jetijs** · 06-05-2008, 06:06 PM

I just did a small scale test, nothing special, just two tubes in a plastic 1l bottle. Does not work, because it is easier for the vacuum to suck air from the outlet tube than to suck up water from the inlet tube. So far I do not see how this can work without a water pump on the outlet that does not allow the air to get in the tank.

**selamatg** · 06-06-2008, 03:32 AM

Originally posted by Jetijs View Post

I just did a small scale test, nothing special, just two tubes in a plastic 1l bottle. Does not work, because it is easier for the vacuum to suck air from the outlet tube than to suck up water from the inlet tube. So far I do not see how this can work without a water pump on the outlet that does not allow the air to get in the tank.

Thanks Jet for your info,

But, I really did 14 years ago in small setup and work good. maybe your pipe / hose output to short because that happen with me before.

Also, we cannot expect for big flow with this system...

the other info I don't think any electricity in the village where I saw that device working. I will try again when have spare of time later. Seem very interest to try again.

selamatg

**Jan H** · 06-06-2008, 08:19 AM

Originally posted by selamatg View Post

Thanks Jet for your info,

But, I really did 14 years ago in small setup and work good. maybe your pipe / hose output to short because that happen with me before.

Also, we cannot expect for big flow with this system...

the other info I don't think any electricity in the village where I saw that device working. I will try again when have spare of time later. Seem very interest to try again.

selamatg

Why would there be no scalability in this system? the amount of vacuum created is not due to the amount of water in the tank but only the height of the water. So it is not so that a big tank can pump up water from a small tank that is in a lower position. Think about water pressure increasing as you go deeper into the sea. The amount of water in the sea has nothing to do with that.

Yes if you make the hose so long it goes to the same level of the small water container it will actually flow. But since there is no height diffrence all your potential is lost. And all you will have built is a siphon.

Think about it if this would have worked the romans (skilled with water and waterflow) would have powered the world 3000 years ago.

I would say... don't waste your time... but.... make me a liar, and prove me wrong.

**selamatg** · 06-06-2008, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by Jan H View Post

Why would there be no scalability in this system? the amount of vacuum created is not due to the amount of water in the tank but only the height of the water. So it is not so that a big tank can pump up water from a small tank that is in a lower position. Think about water pressure increasing as you go deeper into the sea. The amount of water in the sea has nothing to do with that.

Yes if you make the hose so long it goes to the same level of the small water container it will actually flow. But since there is no height diffrence all your potential is lost. And all you will have built is a siphon.

Think about it if this would have worked the romans (skilled with water and waterflow) would have powered the world 3000 years ago.

I would say... don't waste your time... but.... make me a liar, and prove me wrong.

Jan,
Thanks for your comment.

I do believe that gravity / vacuum pump will work, maybe I forget something. I just try using plastic bottle and didn't work because the bottle cannot handle the vacuum.

I will try again sometime with proper setup....Understood what you say this "maybe"

waste of my time, but I will try again sometime. and will post the result.

btw...below is link for other alternative

http://ewb.students.mtu.edu/guatemal..._ram_pumps.pdf

regards,
selamatg

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