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-   -   Bucking Coil Inverter (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/19931-bucking-coil-inverter.html)

SkyWatcher 01-03-2015 06:34 PM

Bucking Coil Inverter
 
Hi folks, just thought I'd start a fresh thread, as this bucking method may have value.

I have found that when the partnered coil wire ends, at the center, are connected and the outside wire ends connected, for a parallel wiring configuration, a reduction of input occurs when loaded with the 6 watt non-modified led bulb.
Unloaded self oscillator input is 3.5 volts @ .7 amps or 2.45 watts.
When partnered secondary coils are loaded with led bulb, input is .52 amps or 1.82 watts, with nice light output.
With a 220 nanofarad non-polarized capacitor is shunted directly across secondary coil output, input is then .4 amps or 1.4 watts.

Here is the inverter powering a 6 watt non-modified led bulb.

http://i.imgur.com/YVwrdvd.jpg

This pic shows the parallel wiring configuration of the 30awg. secondary partnered output coils.

http://i.imgur.com/dKQlcGB.jpg

I'll post a schematic of this setup when i get time.
peace love light:peaceflag:

vidbid 01-03-2015 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyWatcher (Post 269301)
Hi folks, just thought I'd start a fresh thread, as this bucking method may have value.

I have found that when the partnered coil wire ends, at the center, are connected and the outside wire ends connected, for a parallel wiring configuration, a reduction of input occurs when loaded with the 6 watt non-modified led bulb.
Unloaded self oscillator input is 3.5 volts @ .7 amps or 2.45 watts.
When partnered secondary coils are loaded with led bulb, input is .52 amps or 1.82 watts, with nice light output.
With a 220 nanofarad non-polarized capacitor is shunted directly across secondary coil output, input is then .4 amps or 1.4 watts.

Here is the inverter powering a 6 watt non-modified led bulb.

http://i.imgur.com/YVwrdvd.jpg

This pic shows the parallel wiring configuration of the 30awg. secondary partnered output coils.

http://i.imgur.com/dKQlcGB.jpg

I'll post a schematic of this setup when i get time.
peace love light:peaceflag:

Congrats on that.

What is the make and model number of the bulb?

Regards,

VIDBID

Wistiti 01-03-2015 08:04 PM

:thumbsup:
Thank you sky watcher!
Interesting phenomen...
Wathing to see your inverter schematic. Is it a kind of joule thief circuit with a parthner bucking coil warp over it as a secondary output?
Happy 2015!:blowout:

SkyWatcher 01-04-2015 12:42 AM

Hi folks, Hi vidbid, not sure if it warrants congratulating, seems like something promising may be happening.
It is one of these bulbs.
EcoSmart 40W Equivalent Soft White (2700K) A19 Non-Dimmable LED Light Bulb (2-Pack)-ECS GP19 40WE W27 NDM 120 G2 2BL - The Home Depot

Hi wist, thanks for kind words, I'll be drawing it tonight to share.
peace love light:peacesmiley:

Wistiti 01-04-2015 01:14 AM

10/04!
Thank you

SkyWatcher 01-04-2015 04:49 AM

Hi folks, Hi wist, here is the schematic.
The 24awg. bifilar is wrapped over the secondary, only on one half of the core.

http://i.imgur.com/64lwtg4.jpg


peace love light

Wistiti 01-04-2015 05:30 AM

Thank you sky!
Are you wound it on ferrite or air core like plastic tube?
I wonder if the gerard morin water pump generaton will act the same way if it wound in a partner bucking coil way...?
Ciao!

SkyWatcher 01-04-2015 05:47 AM

Hi wist, it is a ferrite core made from 4 ferrite beads or tubes.
peace love light

SkyWatcher 01-05-2015 07:42 AM

Hi folks, would like to share this observation.
I decided to see if just one of the partnered secondary coils, the one under the bifilar oscillator, would light the led bulb the same and it did not.
It drew .7 amps and did not light the led bulb.
However, when i connected only one end of the other secondary coil, the wire end at the center of core, the led bulb lighted to the same intensity at the same amp draw of .52 amps.
Keep in mind, both secondary coils were in parallel to begin with, so why only the one coil would not light the led bulb is odd.
Not sure what to make of these observations yet, any ideas are welcome.
I wonder if i take only one wire from each partnered secondary coil and connect that to the led bulb, will it light at same intensity.
Which would basically mean, two open circuit coils.
Seems like slayer exciter behaviour a bit.
peace love light

SkyWatcher 01-05-2015 08:05 AM

update
 
Hi folks.
Ok, i tried the open circuit wiring for each separate bucking secondary coil and it works.
With basically two open circuit secondary coils, meaning one wire end from each connected to the led bulb, lights the bulb to the same brightness as before, using same .52 amps, actually seems a little bit brighter.
I took wire end from coil under oscillator at end of core and other wire end from center of other coil and this is powering the bulb.
Any thoughts welcome.
peace love light

pedroxime 01-05-2015 08:58 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Attachment 15182


hi, I saw this from someone claiming to power home appliances with a big one

lotec 01-05-2015 10:20 AM

Red from heat Green from envy
 
Hi
When I did my one wire rectify experiments I found that sometimes grounding the other end of secondary helped and sometimes helped to ground the other side of the FWBR. to battery neg or a readily available source of electrons.

Im jealous because when I was doing that I hadnt clicked onto CW CCW pickup coils. Cant wait to revisit that. Plus next time around Ill look at seeing if the secondaries respond to an LC series tuning. Ive noticed in some offerings the output coil windings are quite widely spaced perhaps to avoid excessive capacitance at higher fequencys so they can be tuned.

well done
lotec

hanon1492 01-05-2015 11:38 AM

Hi all,

A good source of info about bucking coil is hyiq.org - Home of Floyd Sweet VTA Replication Project

Please see this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-V1z2TdQJA

More info in this document: http://www.hyiq.org/Downloads/Guidel...ng%20Coils.pdf

Regards

hanon1492 01-05-2015 03:28 PM

Hi SkyWalker,

Note that the second induced coil in your setup is also reached by the inducer field from the primary because this field goes along the whole ferrite core without atenuation. I think this produce a conflict which surely decrease the potential output of your setup: the induced current in the first coil turns in CW direction (letīs say) but the inducer field induces a current in the second coil also in CW direction while the wire are turning in CCW in this part of the coil. I see a conflict here.

What about an aligned configuration as:

INDUCER (N) ---- ONE BUCKING COIL ---- ONE BUCKING COIL ---- (N) INDUCER

Where both inducers are creating a North pole toward each bucking coil (same inducer poles facing each other North-North). This way each bucking coil is transversed by a different inducer field : one inducing in CW and other inducing in CCW, the same as the wiring of both bucking coils. I hope to be helpful. :thumbsup:

I have found a similar sketch in one post by Dave45 in other thread similar to what I refer (but taking out the condenser and diodes)

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t..._bucket/av.png

SkyWatcher 01-05-2015 11:03 PM

Hi hanon, thanks for the information, which thread is that picture from.
I had wound another bifilar over the other secondary yesterday and i made some tests.
I know it is not aligned as you show, so it may not give the same results as you envision.
I placed the first primary in parallel with second primary and then only used the one trigger coil.
It lighted the led bulb to same intensity, though it drew 20 milliamps more compared to just the primary on one half of the core.
I'll give some more thought to your idea and then may try that.
peace love light:heartbeat:

hanon1492 01-06-2015 12:15 AM

I found it casually in google images typing bucking coil inverter. It is from this page http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...-true-229.html but I just picked it up, i did not read that page.

Regards

boguslaw 01-06-2015 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyWatcher (Post 269428)
Hi hanon, thanks for the information, which thread is that picture from.
I had wound another bifilar over the other secondary yesterday and i made some tests.
I know it is not aligned as you show, so it may not give the same results as you envision.
I placed the first primary in parallel with second primary and then only used the one trigger coil.
It lighted the led bulb to same intensity, though it drew 20 milliamps more compared to just the primary on one half of the core.
I'll give some more thought to your idea and then may try that.
peace love light:heartbeat:

Please, some details are needed.I can't find for example if LED bulb is 120V AC rated or 230V ? Winding details ? How many turns ? 24 awg 30awg - is this the wire diameter ?
I wonder what is the frequency this circuit is running of....:thinking:

boguslaw 01-06-2015 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hanon1492 (Post 269422)
Hi SkyWalker,

Note that the second induced coil in your setup is also reached by the inducer field from the primary because this field goes along the whole ferrite core without atenuation. I think this produce a conflict which surely decrease the potential output of your setup: the induced current in the first coil turns in CW direction (letīs say) but the inducer field induces a current in the second coil also in CW direction while the wire are turning in CCW in this part of the coil. I see a conflict here.

What about an aligned configuration as:

INDUCER (N) ---- ONE BUCKING COIL ---- ONE BUCKING COIL ---- (N) INDUCER

Where both inducers are creating a North pole toward each bucking coil (same inducer poles facing each other North-North). This way each bucking coil is transversed by a different inducer field : one inducing in CW and other inducing in CCW, the same as the wiring of both bucking coils. I hope to be helpful. :thumbsup:

I have found a similar sketch in one post by Dave45 in other thread similar to what I refer (but taking out the condenser and diodes)

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t..._bucket/av.png

Wait a moment ! I saw this configuration many years ago ! It was used by Daniel Dingel for producing HHO in his water powered car.

SkyWatcher 01-06-2015 07:19 PM

Hi boguslaw, it's a 120vac led bulb, link to exact bulb is posted in thread.
Each 30awg. diameter enameled magnet wire secondary coil is 3" long, probably around 160-180 turns each, didn't count and of course those are wound opposite direction to each other.
24awg. bifilar is covering only one secondary, around 40 bifilar turns.
Have not measured frequency, though i can just barely hear it, so it is probably close to 20khz or above.
Hope that helps, of course feel free to give question or comments.
I'm going to try pedroxime's posted modification, thanks pedroxime, it has a capacitor in parellel with each secondary and what looks like a resistor connecting them to the center of both coils.
Pedroxime, could you verify if that is a resistor, thanks?
peace love light:color:

boguslaw 01-07-2015 06:32 AM

Hi SkyWatcher

What transistor did you used ?

SkyWatcher 01-07-2015 07:00 AM

Hi boguslaw, transistor is 2n3055 NPN.
peace love light

Wistiti 01-08-2015 01:48 AM

Hi Sky!
Just to let you know i did not acheive your result with my first try but i am still experiment...
Anyway it is an interesting phenomen that i thing need more experiment.
Ciao!

rosehillworks 01-08-2015 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyWatcher (Post 269301)
Hi folks, just thought I'd start a fresh thread, as this bucking method may have value.

I have found that when the partnered coil wire ends, at the center, are connected and the outside wire ends connected, for a parallel wiring configuration, a reduction of input occurs when loaded with the 6 watt non-modified led bulb.
Unloaded self oscillator input is 3.5 volts @ .7 amps or 2.45 watts.
When partnered secondary coils are loaded with led bulb, input is .52 amps or 1.82 watts, with nice light output.
With a 220 nanofarad non-polarized capacitor is shunted directly across secondary coil output, input is then .4 amps or 1.4 watts.

Here is the inverter powering a 6 watt non-modified led bulb.

http://i.imgur.com/YVwrdvd.jpg

This pic shows the parallel wiring configuration of the 30awg. secondary partnered output coils.

http://i.imgur.com/dKQlcGB.jpg

I'll post a schematic of this setup when i get time.
peace love light:peaceflag:

looking at the wires in your picture it is pretty clear that none of the wires Are attached to the coil are hooked to the light. so what were you using the light for in the picture. I would like to thank the light is being powered by the coil but I do not see any wires connected to it so why is it there. I must be not seeing something.

SkyWatcher 01-08-2015 05:45 AM

Hi rosehill, sorry about the confusion.
The fine 30 gauge wire is just out of sight, connected into one of those plastic connector strips and then lamp cord coming out into the bulb from the secondary coil.
peace love light:peacesmiley:
Edit: i'll post a pic to clear any confusion, give me a few minutes.

http://i.imgur.com/qV3031U.jpg

rosehillworks 01-08-2015 06:07 AM

Thank you very much that clears up a lot.
:thanks:

SkyWatcher 01-08-2015 06:19 AM

Hi folks, just noticed an error in a previous post, each partnered secondary coil is 2" long, not 3".
Not sure if this would help your results wist.
Wist, can you describe or post a pic of what you are trying.
peace love light:)

SkyWatcher 01-08-2015 06:37 AM

Hi folks, i should also add, i used a layer of clear packing tape on top of ferrite and then a layer over secondary and over bifilar.
This may have an effect, not sure.
peace love light:)

Wistiti 01-08-2015 12:43 PM

Hi sky.
I use a ferrite rod from an old radio. Wind the bifilar primary all over the lenght of the rod. I cover it with elitric tape an then the bucking over it. Did yours bifilar is over or under the bucking?
I must try to wind the primary 1/2 lenght of the rod...
Thank you!

Gav 01-08-2015 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wistiti (Post 269600)
Hi sky.
I use a ferrite rod from an old radio. Wind the bifilar primary all over the lenght of the rod. I cover it with elitric tape an then the bucking over it. Did yours bifilar is over or under the bucking?
I must try to wind the primary 1/2 lenght of the rod...
Thank you!

I done the same as you did Wistiti, I also used a ferrite rod from an old radio
I think we done it wrong, I think (correct me sky?) the bifilar primary is layed over the secondary, so secondary is wound first, then the primary or bifilar is layed on top of the secondary. but only on 1 half of the secondary, not the whole length
it still impressed me. I used a circuit that I had made in the past for a joule thief, it uses a tip31 and a variable resistor (500k) and a small red led. powered by a AA battery (I have a AA holder soldered to the circuit already so I used it)
the secondary powers a large red led the size of my pinkie to full strength, not sure on the voltage of the led as I had it in a big bag of assorted leds but it puts out a lot of light

if I rewind the coil so the primary is ontop of the secondary, will it work better? or it doesn't matter? the opposite coil doesn't seem to do a lot though? I have not had time to experiment with it though, all I have done is hooked it up to see these resaults
thanks for sharing and keeping it up, I allways like seeing your experiments :)

Gav

SkyWatcher 01-08-2015 05:56 PM

Hi wist, Hi gav, my setup has the 24awg. bifilar wound on top of the secondary and only on one half or on top of one partnered secondary coil.
It might matter gav, not sure, don't forget my ferrite cores are beads or tubes, 1-1/8" long x 3/4" outer diameter x little over 3/8" inner diamter.
As may be seen it the latest pic, i have another bifilar wound over other secondary in opposite wind direction and only using one trigger coil and it does not perform as good and current increases, probably because the inducer primaries are fighting each other a bit.
With the wiring outlined in chris sykes pdf and my schematic, the current lowers when loaded with the led bulb.
Seems like it prefers capacitive loads, so i assume the led bulb has some kind of capacitor at some point it likes.
Also, as i said, i can take one particular wire from each secondary and use those 2 wire ends to power the led bulb just as well, which means the coils are then open circuit.
Hope that helps, feel free to ask any more questions or give comments.
A picture or something might help, then i could see what you guys are doing.
peace love light

Edit: also, the secondary is 2 separate coils with a small space between the 2 coils, because they have to be wound in opposite directions.


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