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 med.3012 11-15-2014 02:33 PM

The Resonance Energy Device Explained

Hello everyone,

i am pleased to introduce some new information about the resonance energy device, there is a new presentation available on the following link :

http://free-energy-info.com/Mohamed.pdf

the resonance energy device depend on a special capacitor/coil, so we could replicate the squared electromagnetic flux very easily, the idea is very simple but very difficult to understand, it's a new kind of capacitor, a one dimensional capacitor that exist only when the device oscillate!! when we do that the needed rotational energetic symmetry will exist and the correct door will be opened for a massive electrical energy to be present for free :)

experienced people are invited to develop the device because the presentation will cover only the heart of the system.

 shylo 11-15-2014 10:48 PM

interesting

Hi Med, Do you think , when you move a magnet closer to a piece of steel , the flow becomes faster moving , or becomes more dense( compressed) but keeps the same velocity?
artv

 med.3012 11-16-2014 03:23 PM

Hello

i think the flow will be just compressed.

 Ufopolitics 11-16-2014 03:58 PM

Negative...Flow Expands...

Hello to All,

@ Shylo:

Whenever you approach a piece of Iron to a Magnet or Magnetic Field, the Iron becomes "part of the Magnetic Field environment"...this is called magnetic Redirection of flow, therefore the Magnetic Flow Expands into the Iron...:)

In order to obtain a "Compressed Flow" is whenever you approach Two Magnets facing SAME polarity, meaning North to North or South to South...what T.A (Ken Wheeler) calls Counter Voidance Compression and We all call "Repulsion"...right on the money Ken!

Regards

Ufopolitics

 med.3012 11-16-2014 07:12 PM

i have a problem in the pick up coils...

1 Attachment(s)
i opened this thread to discuss the resonance energy device, i am the writer of this presentation

http://free-energy-info.com/Mohamed.pdf

it explain the resonance energy device, the device depend on an extended Tesla bi-filar coil where the capacitor is a part from the coil!

Back to 1894 and take a look at what Mr. Nikola Tesla said about his bi-filar coil:

My present invention has for its object to avoid the employment of
condensers which are expensive, cumbersome and difficult to maintain in
perfect condition, and to so construct the coils themselves as to accomplish
the same ultimate object.

for more information please read the full presentation, now the problem is the obtained electric power using the E-TBC is a pure reactive power :(

the pick up coils in the resonance energy device will correct the reactive power using a kind of serial/parallel resonance... this situation will provide the maximum current /voltage needed to charge the electrolyte capacitors banks...

Now the problem is that what is the best way to arrange the pick coils ?
the attached photo show how Don connect his diodes with the receiver/transfer coils.

 wrtner 11-17-2014 01:38 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by med.3012 (Post 267195) i it explain the resonance energy device, the device depend on an extended Tesla bi-filar coil where the capacitor is a part from the coil! Back to 1894 and take a look at what Mr. Nikola Tesla said about his bi-filar coil: My present invention has for its object to avoid the employment of condensers which are expensive, cumbersome and difficult to maintain in perfect condition, and to so construct the coils themselves as to accomplish the same ultimate object.
This quotation is about pancake coils, isn't it? Pat 512340.

 med.3012 11-17-2014 03:52 PM

the extended pancake bifilar coil is the key !

when we extend the capacitive side of the famous Tesla pancake bifilar coil we arrive to the point where we could construct a parallel LC without the employment of condensers,

when we combine magnetism and electricity in the same device the power will be replicated and amplified with Radio Frequency, the obtained power is an amplified reactive power... the collection system must correct the phase using a correction capacitor in parallel with L2 coil.

 med.3012 11-17-2014 06:17 PM

proposal circuit need to be tested.

1 Attachment(s)
proposal circuit need to be tested.

 Farmhand 11-17-2014 10:57 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by wrtner (Post 267218) This quotation is about pancake coils, isn't it? Pat 512340.
The Patent clearly states that the patent relates to coils of all types and even arrangements that are not classical "looking" coils.

Quote:
 I would here state that by the term coils I desire to include generally helices, solenoids, or, in fact, any conductor the different parts of which by the requirements of its applica~ tion or use are brought into such relations with each other- as to materially increase the self-induction.
Patent.
Patent US512340 - Nikola tesla - Google Patents

One of the advantages to this coil arrangement is that the current portion
of the L/C "activity", is displacement current due to not needing an external
capacitor to get the required capacitance for resonance at a particular frequency.

I arranged a HF setup with series connected bifilar wound coils but still used
external tuning capacitors to get the exact frequencies I wanted, however
by using series connected bifilar wound coils I was able to get a relatively low
frequency with very low resistance coils and was able to utilize only parallel
plate air variable capacitors for tuning.

From a 12 volt input 8 primary turns and 20 secondary turns I am able to
exceed 1600 volts peak to peak 565 volts RMS perfect sine wave on the
tanked secondary with a pulsed DC input of about 12 volts in a no load
situation.

Transformation ratio is only 1:2.5 but voltage rise is 1:133 using peak values
12 volts pulsed in and 1600 peak to peak on the tank (not output), that's
resonant rise. Without the resonant rise the setup would not be able to
achieve proper conduction in the fluro tube. Without resonant rise the
secondary voltage would be lucky to get to over 30 volts, Resonance is
useful like that.

I haven't finished with the experiments.

The setup will strike and light fluro's fairly well with proper conduction current.

..

Due to my limitations and that of my equipment no reliably accurate measurements have been made on this setup yet.

..

 shylo 11-18-2014 01:19 AM

Nice

From a 12 volt input 8 primary turns and 20 secondary turns I am able to
exceed 1600 volts peak to peak 565 volts RMS perfect sine wave on the
tanked secondary with a pulsed DC input of about 12 volts in a no load
situation.

there you have it
artv

 med.3012 11-18-2014 01:33 AM

The E-TBC is the heart of resonance energy device, in my opinion we should work with it....:thumbsup:

thanks

 BroMikey 11-18-2014 01:39 AM

Don Smith

Thanks for the lost Don Smith stuff. I am watching his energy generator/collection talk.:thumbsup:

Mike

Quote:
 Originally Posted by med.3012 (Post 267195) i opened this thread to discuss the resonance energy device, i am the writer of this presentation http://free-energy-info.com/Mohamed.pdf it explain the resonance energy device, the device depend on an extended Tesla bi-filar coil where the capacitor is a part from the coil! Back to 1894 and take a look at what Mr. Nikola Tesla said about his bi-filar coil: My present invention has for its object to avoid the employment of condensers which are expensive, cumbersome and difficult to maintain in perfect condition, and to so construct the coils themselves as to accomplish the same ultimate object. for more information please read the full presentation, now the problem is the obtained electric power using the E-TBC is a pure reactive power :( the pick up coils in the resonance energy device will correct the reactive power using a kind of serial/parallel resonance... this situation will provide the maximum current /voltage needed to charge the electrolyte capacitors banks... Now the problem is that what is the best way to arrange the pick coils ? the attached photo show how Don connect his diodes with the receiver/transfer coils.

 BroMikey 11-18-2014 01:56 AM

3 Strokes

Don Smith drooled as he gave his talk. The man had just had 3 strokes. Don said many business deals were preventing him from giving more elaborate device descriptions as to just how advanced these Tesla based systems have become, so he wanted to give just a simple demo to get the idea across.

The biggest thing he said that hit home with me was that people who had TESLA COILS could make as many more as they wanted to but use the additional units to collect the energy coming from the transmitter.

Or for as many more Tesla coils one could build to collect the same energy from the transmitter would give the operator that much more energy in multiples.

As he showed one of his many devices he explained that one of the coils was transmitting while the other 3 (in this case) were tuned especially to collect.

His little wooden board was just simple high voltage source with coils.

Mike:thumbsup:

 lotec 11-18-2014 05:02 AM

I get the feeling that perhaps the secondaries of these types of transmitters need to be standing quarter wave resonant and the receiver coils need to have the same length conductors and identical properties to work at their best.
As per the tesla patent.

 MasterBlaster 11-18-2014 04:18 PM

Quarte Wave

Quote:
 Originally Posted by lotec (Post 267260) I get the feeling that perhaps the secondaries of these types of transmitters need to be standing quarter wave resonant and the receiver coils need to have the same length conductors and identical properties to work at their best. As per the tesla patent.
This information in this patent may be relevant

Electromagnetic systems with double-resonant spiral coil components

Patent US20100059692 - Electromagnetic systems with double-resonant spiral coil components - Google Patents

 med.3012 11-19-2014 07:40 PM

Using a quarter wave length build a standing wave where the ends of wire act like a capacitor plates... instead of using a Tank resonance receiver we use standing wave receivers the same way as antennas dipole...

in the resonance energy device we use electrolyte capacitors to store electric energy but how the resonance is maintained when we store this electric power using electrolyte capacitors banks ( very low impedance in higher frequency) ?

using an E-TBC will amplify both the voltage and the current which give a squared electromagnetic flux, the the principle behind this device is to unify the magnetism and electricity, Maxwell solved most electromagnetism problems except one ! ( this is what Donald Smith said in one of his video)

the puzzle I'm talking about is the misunderstood concept of displacement current! the displacement current appear when we separate magnetism and electricity, we fill the gap by introducing something isn't real!! the displacement current does not exist :confused:

now when using an extended Tesla Bi-filar coil the obtained power in L2 coil is an amplified reactive power, maybe Don used a special capacitors banks has a large capacitance with high inductance as well :D

in my point of view the capacitor is the device that a few people understand how it work! Don is one of them.

in my experiment when i feed the E-TBC from A-D the charging process speed up, i think that the capacitor tend to charge itself acting like a coil!! a proactive magnetic field will be built and this one will make another induced rotating electric field that able to charge the capacitor very quickly, maybe Don built a special capacitors when its real capacitance with microfarad but when measured it appear like nano farad for example !!!

 med.3012 11-22-2014 08:25 PM

2 Attachment(s)
i was confused in my last post :wall:

I have a new idea consist of working with higher frequency to achieve standing wave, i think this is the best way to avoid problems in the pick-up coils, using the natural resonance frequency in L2 coils will solve our problems to collect the available power using an E-TBC

standing wave created when the reflected wave meet the original wave in exactly a division or multiplication of the wave length of the working frequency... with this the created standing wave will have a fixed position along the L2 coil regardless of the presence of High capacitance electrolyte capacitors ( very low impedance in high frequency which cause the die out of reactive energy which in turn isn't able to do real work )

An E-TBC work according to the same concept NATURAL RESONANCE because the capacitor is involved inside the coil in a unified state, i suppose the reflected waves in a self resonating coil see the coil ends as a capacitor plates!

File:Standing wave 2.gif - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the work of a standing waves is reversed compared to an E-TBC, in our E-TBC the capacitor exist in one point but in a self-resonating coil the capacitor exist in the edges... in other words this look like the past light cone of an operating E-TBC but in repulsion force manner which increase positive energy, the voltage and current both has the same frequency and bouncing in the same wire, because of that, the resulting standing waves will occupy the same positions, this of course will correct the phase between current and voltage since the standing waves is related directly to wire length!

an extended Tesla bi-filar coil is a real electric energy inflated, the amplified electric power is the result of the connection between magnetic field and electric field inside an E-TBC, the induced electric field is the key point for the increased current and voltage when the device oscillate, the output will be in VAR ( VOLT AMPERE REACTIVE ), the reactive power is very important since with it we could achieve super conductivity in room temperature easily.

due the my equipement limitation i can't verify the frequency of operation of such device, if it's twice compared to a normal parallel L/C combination or not ?!

i did some reverse engineering calculations and i found the best practical frequency to work with should be around 20MHZ, this will give a quarter wave length of 3.75M, I attached a photos of the specification of L2 coil such as the wire tubing diameter etc....
working with two coils wound CW + CCW is better, when the phase between current and voltage is correct, collecting the available energy will be easy.

the E-TBC should have a very few turn, one turn is good and a capacitance of around 1 nano farad, i welcome anyone could help us with experiments and result, so we could go further more with this project ...

 lotec 11-24-2014 01:53 AM

If you have a cheap multimetre with frequency counter. In some circumstances they can pick up wirelessly if higher voltages are a concern. I clocked wireless driven oscillator used in simple sec experiments at 305 KHz. It wasnt untill I went to pack up my multimeter that I realised I forgot to plug it into the circuit. I had the bananna leads plugged into the meter. Perhaps they were acting like antenna.

Im not convinced that it was quarter wave resonant due to the need for virtual grounding in certain places but I am still learning.

 med.3012 11-24-2014 12:14 PM

Hi Lotec , i am still learning too, some say standing wave can't transfer energy ; some tell they store energy :suprise:

 Bob Smith 11-24-2014 11:56 PM

Med.3012
I might be wrong, but will offer my understanding of the role of the standing wave, for what it's worth. I thought the standing wave enabled excess electrical charge to be taken off a resonant coil without disturbing the coil's resonating action, provided it is done with the right kind of pickup coil. If I understand it correctly, the series-wound bifilar coil will not produce secondary reflection in a primary. In this way, the primary is unaffected, and can continue to resonate. From what I have read from other builders, a shorted series wound bifilar coil will enable the excess energy of the standing wave to be drawn off without disturbing the primary's resonance. I have also read one builder stating that as he added further swbifi coils, he was able to draw off more energy from the resonating primary. Whether the energy comes from reactive power or perhaps from the dielectric medium, I don't know.
Respectfully,
Bob

 lotec 11-25-2014 11:58 PM

Hi med.3012
When it comes to wave theory I really dont have any answers only questions. Ive read also a few times that 1/4 wave coils dont make good Hertzian transmitters

. My main focus has been like Bob Smith said to attempt to establish a 1/4 wave resonance and extract energy out of it.

I really liked this thread http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...-variants.html. Contained within are some very interesting experiments based on Dr Stifflers work performed by a group of very talented experimenters. Perhaps in there you can find the tools that you can use to cheaply set up experiments of your choice while seeing some interesting stuff along the way. Youve got interesting ideas Id be curious to see how they play out.

A couple of circuits that Im interested in right now while waiting for parts to build a faster pulse generator are Lid motors tunable jule theif and Lid motors tunable version of Slayers exciter but there are other great ones too. Horses for courses.

 med.3012 11-27-2014 12:36 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Thanks to All :thumbsup:

using an extended Tesla Bi-filar coil will produce both hot ordinary electricity plus cold radiant electricity, the way an E-TBC oscillate make it able to produce both Cold and hot electricity perfectly without cancellation effects!

using an ordinary methods to collect the available power will not work good because in a positive regime time Cold energy will cancel Hot energy, the obtained power will remain too low to produce an OU device... in other words an E-TBC will produce hot electricity with the same speed it produce radiant electricity, a special care must be taken to collect the available energy. reviewing my document about the resonance energy device we have

For the first time period, we have (C discharging across L) + energy increase magnetic energy ---- I - energy increase electric energy ---- V
For the second time period we have (L charging C) + energy increase electric energy ---- V - energy increase magnetic energy ---- I

to simplify the things let take the first sight when the capacitor discharge across itself to be a full parallel L/C circuit, at this moment and before the current start increasing, negative energy will push the current to go back against the voltage in action at a distance (because it will start from X point ) similar to what happen when the current flow in ordinary hot electricity it produce magnetic field but in this case the current in cold electricity will increase the voltage statically! when the turn come to hot electricity to play negative energy will cease .... please read page 15 in http://free-energy-info.com/Mohamed.pdf to understand the things clearly, the construction method used in hot ordinary electricity can't suit cold radiant electricity....!! please see page 9 in the above document when i explained how an E-TBC work in both positive energy ( future light cone ) and negative energy ( past light cone), in the wrapped negative energy space the current start from B to A which oppose the flow of current in hot electricity, this current charge the coil electrically like it act as a capacitor... take into account the positions of coil and capacitor in an oscillating E-TBC, the destruction method used in hot electricity is constructive in cold electricity, we need this information to understand the cancellation effects that appear when we use ordinary methods to collect the available energy, Before an E-TBC discharge (this is destruction effect) across itself from A to B, Cold electricity will act in a reverse manner providing a virtual current which charge the coil from B to A (this is construction effect). in the second sight when the collapsing magnetic field charge the capacitor from C to D, just before this operation, the voltage in the virtual E-TBC take its maximum value from D to C (in our positive energy future light cone we have a maximum magnetic field at this moment), when the voltage decrease in the virtual E-TBC ( this is destruction effect - after that the magnetic field will collapse) the wrapped space in the positive energy future light cone see this as a short-circuit and provide a maximum current (this is construction effect), this is why this energy will charge the capacitor magnetically if it act as a coil !!

the design of our ordinary coils and capacitors will not provide the best timing for this kind of energy to be perfectly stored and then used, why ? cold electricity is a reverse kind of hot electricity... when we charge an electrolyte capacitor using the hot electricity taken from L2 coil (construction), cold electricity pass a current in a reverse manner to our ordinary hot electricity ( destruction )... similar to back EMF when a coil reverse its polarity. using standing waves is a clever idea to separate destruction area (Node) apart from construction area (Antinode) using a quarter wave length, using this technique will force L2 coil to take the power from an E-TBC perfectly :) please see the attached drawing. in my opinion this is a physical separation where we could provide the best place for cold electricity to destruct its reflected wave rather than destructing the constructive waves.... in the construction area ( Antinode) even if the moving real wave move in the positive direction (increasing) and the reflected wave move backward ( decreasing ) , the antinode is a construction area all the time ... this idea isn't complete in my mind but i think this is how to collect the huge available electric energy using our E-TBC

Good night.

 lotec 11-30-2014 12:24 AM

Hi Med

I think my last couple of posts may have been a bit irrelavent and youve got more gear than I first thought.

Id be curious to see how the EBTC would go used with a primary and identicle twin resonator coils. The resonator coils attached with one wire to the ETBC. One attached at point A and the other at point B. Using the spark gap between C and D to tune the frequqncy. Using the primary to induct power into it and pickup coils in proximaty to the resonators,

Oops I akmost forgot to post this. Reading often makes me very drowsy at the best of times but when I read this I had to pinch myself to make sure I wasnt dreaming. heres a couple of snippetts from,

Tesla Patent 787 412 The art of transmitting electrical energy through natural mediums,

"In order to magnify the electrical movement in the secondary as much as possible, it is essential that the inductive connection with the primary A, should not be very intimate, as in ordinary transformers, but loose so as to permit free oscillations - that is to say, their mutual induction should be small. The spiral form of coil C secures this advantage, whlie the turns near primary A are subject to strong inductive action, and develope high initial electromotive force."

" ... produce in this manner movements thousands of times greater than the initial - that is the one impressed upon the secondary by primary A".

 med.3012 12-02-2014 01:44 AM

Hi Lotec

Thank you for pointing me to Tesla Patent 787 412, Mr Tesla is the master of imagination.

to transfer energy from the primary to the secondary we could use either induction transfer based on magnetic field, this method is used in ordinary transformer, here if you want to amplify the current you must lower the voltage depending on the already available active power, mutual inductance have to be higher ( magnetic core prove this), taking more current from the secondary will affect the input...

Tesla propose using speed lower than 20KHZ when he said : To give an idea, I would say that the frequency should be smaller than twenty thousand per second, though shorter waves might be practicable.

But shorter wave will work too, in the resonance energy device we use more than 20KHZ which put us in the range of RADIO FREQUENCY SPEED, in my opinion Tesla used only cold radiant electricity, but using the E-TBC will produce both, to benefit from this special device we have to use even more shorter wave say 20MHZ for example which produce a quarter wave length of 3.75M , so we could produce electricity locally rather than produce it remotely as Nikola Tesla did...

another way to transfer the power from the primary to the secondary is to use electromagnetic induction resonance transfer, Tesla refer this when he said : so as to permit free oscillation —that is to say, their mutual induction should be small. The spiral form of coil C secures this advantage,

Tesla was focusing in radiant electricity which is perfect for wireless electrical energy transfer due to its ability to produce voltage remotely-- see Fig19-b in page 15 in my document, in this phase the voltage will end in the position of spark gap exactly and providing 0V, rather than saying the voltage increase and cold electricity start from the spark-gap in my opinion it's better to say the voltage will start to decrease far away from the spark-gap! opposite to current which will start locally Fig19-a, here the earth will provide the best transport medium, Tesla point out this when he said : the effect will increase with the distance and will be greatest in a region diametrically opposite the transmitter. With oscillations still slower the earth, strictly speaking, will not resonate, but simply act as a capacity, and the variation of potential will be more or less uniform over its entire surface.

if you already built an E-TBC you will see this coil is able to be fed from C,D for example and oscillate perfectly even A,B are out of the circuit !! because CD is the capacitor it will be just charged and when the voltage reach the break down value the E-TBC will oscillate...

you could even speed up or slow down the charging process by the charging it from AD or CB... ( this is another story :confused: )

THE CAPACITOR IN THE E-TBC is a reference to something exist BUT CAN'T BE SEEING, this is why we call it one dimensional capacitor that will open the correct door for negative electricity to enter into our device using the flexible spark-gap zone, the word flexible here mean it's able to let the exchange to be done between negative and positive energy seas without problems, in other words it will let the space to be wrapped from + energy toward - energy and vice versa ....

in radiant electricity the effect will increase with the distance and will be greatest in a region diametrically opposite the transmitter, but to produce the effect of magnification locally we have to find for the missed piece...

The E-TBC is a multidimensional device, it's able to draw both +electricity and -electricity, the rotational energetic symmetry between +energy( repulsive forces) and -energy (attractive forces) make it practically possible to draw enormous amount of electric energy, this device is able to set up it's self resonance naturally providing amplified electromagnetic flux ready to be taken with the correct pickup techniques, here we have to use electromagnetic induction resonance transfer,

in my opinion the E-TBC have to work alone because it work in a special dimensions as discussed, using 1/4 wave or 3/4 wave etc.... will just make the current and voltage ordered, when the device oscillate it will pump the power from both energetic oceans, this operation relate them as to close the loop in each dimension according to the flowing of energy... this is what we call it ambient background energy... the idea here is construction destruction ...

using stationary waves make it possible to locate construction point and separate it from destruction point... take another look at future/past light cone concept in my document you will see when the current increase in the future light cone the voltage increase in the past light cone but in a reverse direction which result a negative impulsion reverse the gained positive current and cancel it !!

since -electricity has the same frequency as + electricity and if we use standing waves we will separate the area when building take place ( antinode ) from the area when waves cancel out each other ( node ) when this achieved the current and voltage will be ordered !!

Good night .

 med.3012 12-02-2014 11:18 PM

the biggest idea behind the resonance energy device is to relate both magnetism and electricity in just one oscillating device...

the area where spin separation take action is the point X in an oscillating E-TBC, it's similar as the Bloch wall in a permanent magnet, as Don Smith refer to this in one of his video when he said : THE MORE YOU FLIP ELECTRONS BACK AND FORTH THE MORE ENERGY YOU HAVE...

the problem in ordinary coils and capacitors occur where Bloch wall area can't be formed correctly since the magnetism (coil) and electricity (capacitor) are separated,

the formation of Bloch wall area in permanent magnet exist in the middle, North pole provide CCW rotation while south Pole provide CW.

in an oscillating E-TBC, the spark-gap is the Bloch wall area because it provide spin separation mechanism.

 lotec 12-04-2014 10:50 AM

Hi Med
Thanks for your patients in explaining E-TBC and shedding some light on the Tesla patent.

p.s. Thanks MasterBlaster and Bob Smith for input on standing waves

 med.3012 12-04-2014 06:45 PM

:thanks: Lotec , it's a honor to exchange ideas with brilliant people, the more you share idea the more you get from the ambient background :thumbsup:

:welcome:

 med.3012 12-17-2014 08:22 PM

Anybody Here ?!:(

 med.3012 12-20-2014 11:56 AM

SPIN SEPARATION MECHANISM

how the spark-gap form the spin separation mechanism in an oscillation E-TBC ?

This is one of the most difficult behavior that need extensive research because when the electron spin around its axis it actually don't have an axis! But compared to its imaginary component it act like it has an axis, this phenomena appear due to the energetic superposition....

The E-TBC provide these energetic superposition condition, the point where the spin separation take action is the intersect between positive and negative energy, the one dimensional capacitor is the key point for this superposition between + and - energy to be present.

the geometrical shape in this hidden science has a major importance, if we treat things as there is no relation between them this new Kind of electrical science will just disappear!!!!

the misunderstanding of capacitor for example when we though that displacement current exist EVEN THE CAPACITOR PLATES ARE SEPARATED, doing it that way we force things to go in the wrong direction.

The common behavior between magnetism and electricity is SPINNING, added this to the energetic superposition in symmetric mode will OPEN the door............:thumbsup:

 boguslaw 12-20-2014 06:46 PM

you think too much instead of thinking clearly
just take Don Smith words literally and find how to flip the same electrons many times :D

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