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  #1  
Old 12-21-2017, 07:55 AM
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Is Spacetime Flat or Curved ?

Many cosmologists believe that '' spacetime is curved ''
====
The spacetime (as whole ) is cold continuum.
The light travels in this continuum in a straight line.
But near the hot masses of stars light can be curved.
Not spacetime curves but the movement of light is curved by hot masses.
#
Sun changes the road of light like a car changes its movement by road
but Euclidian geometry of Earth remains unchanged.
#
Sun (and its surrounded space) curves the straight movement of light quanta,
but the geometry of Pseudo Euclidian (Minkovski ) spacetime remains unchanged.

=====================
Israel Sadovnik Socratus
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Old 12-21-2017, 05:35 PM
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I think the math is easier if space is flat and fixed,
and you see the speed of time changing in various areas
if mass creates a slower time field, then the bending starlight and gravity makes perfect sense

even if it is really going on, trying to figure out what is going on when you link space and time, then assume they are curved, it just does not get you much answers.
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Old 12-21-2017, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacecase0 View Post
I think the math is easier if space is flat and fixed,
and you see the speed of time changing in various areas
if mass creates a slower time field, then the bending starlight and gravity makes perfect sense

even if it is really going on, trying to figure out what is going on when you link space and time, then assume they are curved, it just does not get you much answers.
The speed of time changing in various areas of masses:
every planet has its own time.
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Old 12-21-2017, 08:30 PM
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Local Curvature of Space
According to Einsteinís theory of general relativity, massive objects warp
the spacetime around them, and the effect a warp has on objects is what we call gravity.
So, locally, spacetime is curved around every object with mass.

Curvature of Space | Is space flat or curved?

Only '' around every (local - hot) object with mass.'' light is curved.
The mass-objects in the universe (as whole) is very few.
Therefore the universe (as whole) is a flat spacetime (vacuum) continuum.

===================================
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Old 12-22-2017, 01:51 AM
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if space is curved, then things are good,
if time is curved, then things are good,
but how does mixing the 2 of them together and seeing it as not separable help us at all ?
exclusively using the term spacetime seems to be just like using electromagnetism for all it encompasses,
just think, what if we only referred to a light bulb as converting electromagnetism into electromagnetism. although accurate, it does not help when we say the same description about a radio transmitter. seeing things that way does not let you tell an infrared heater from a light bulb, or a radio transmitter, or tell them apart from a mirror
I am just saying that we can do better than some nebulous thing (spacetime) that some theoretical guy came up with long ago. especially when what NASA calls the "impossible drive" is going to need a new viewpoint to show what is going on in reality
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Old 12-22-2017, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacecase0 View Post
I am just saying that we can do better than some nebulous thing (spacetime)
that some theoretical guy came up with long ago. especially when what NASA
calls the "impossible drive" is going to need a new viewpoint to show
what is going on in reality
If ''is going to need a new viewpoint to show what is going on in reality''
then this new / very old viewpoint can be only vacuum because all
different objects and all different waves act in vacuum.
(one of vacuum's name is spacetime because in vacuum space and time are united)

========
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Old 12-22-2017, 04:44 PM
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I agree that the new ideas are actually old,

if the terms are not defined, or not defined well,
then I suggest that we start defining them
the idea that there is a time field (just like electric and magnetic fields) seems to solve lots of issues. but there is sure more to figure out good definitions for
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Old 12-23-2017, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacecase0 View Post
I agree that the new ideas are actually old,

if the terms are not defined, or not defined well,
then I suggest that we start defining them
the idea that there is a time field (just like electric and magnetic fields) seems
to solve lots of issues. but there is sure more to figure out good definitions for
a)
'' a time field'' can exist only in gravity systems.
b)
There's nothing new thing under the sun -- except maybe light itself.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...1102141857.htm

And, maybe, the new idea about light is also actually old and
we can only give a new clothes to an old idea.

================================
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Old 12-23-2017, 03:17 PM
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Gravity / time

Quote:
Originally Posted by socratus View Post
a)
'' a time field'' can exist only in gravity systems.
=======
Where (and/or when) would you (or anything) be in a non-gravity system?

Perhaps at (or just beyond) the edge of the Universe. But at that point, what's the point? O.K. So maybe time doesn't exist outside our universe. So what?

I think I get it. You're saying time exist everywhere. Right?

bi
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Old 12-23-2017, 06:41 PM
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I would suggest that a time field is made slower by mass
we have seen tests that show that time is slower on earth than in space
so just like diffraction changes the direction of light,
an uneven time field makes things move to the slower time field

so it is an uneven time field that is the cause of gravity
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Old 12-23-2017, 08:32 PM
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Gravity / time

Quote:
Originally Posted by spacecase0 View Post
I would suggest that a time field is made slower by mass
we have seen tests that show that time is slower on earth than in space
so just like diffraction changes the direction of light,
an uneven time field makes things move to the slower time field

so it is an uneven time field that is the cause of gravity
How about that gravity is force, and not related directly to time? Time is a human concept we use to keep track of sh!t.

bi
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Old 12-24-2017, 01:09 AM
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I don't mean time as in days
I mean a time field, maybe call it a spin field, or a movement field.
electricity and magnetism show up at 90 degrees to each other when something is moving, so the other 90 degrees from each of them is movement, take the average amount of movement in an area (usually atoms with internal spin), and that sets the magnitude of this field, I like time field, one person called it a tempic field, but am up for other names
this other 90 degrees to electric and magnetic fields can be spinning like in an electric generator, or straight out like with a radio wave at the speed of light
see what I am getting at now ?
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Old 12-24-2017, 02:43 AM
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Thanks for reply

Quote:
Originally Posted by spacecase0 View Post
I don't mean time as in days
I mean a time field, maybe call it a spin field, or a movement field.
electricity and magnetism show up at 90 degrees to each other when something is moving, so the other 90 degrees from each of them is movement, take the average amount of movement in an area (usually atoms with internal spin), and that sets the magnitude of this field, I like time field, one person called it a tempic field, but am up for other names
this other 90 degrees to electric and magnetic fields can be spinning like in an electric generator, or straight out like with a radio wave at the speed of light
see what I am getting at now ?
But I don't get it. What do E and M have to do with gravity and / or time?

In a generator, EM = F.

bi
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Old 12-24-2017, 03:26 AM
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in an electric motor or electric generation
there are 3 components, any 2 will at 90 degrees cause the 3rd at the 3rd 90 degrees. they are:
magnetism, electricity, motion
I am sure you already know this.
what I am saying is that they are all field forces
the average motion in an area sets this motion field value
so maybe call it a motion field then ?
movement is typically spin in nature. so that is why I also said it could be called a spin field.
but whatever you call it, it is a field force
and it is set by the total value of all the motion in an area (this is all the spin of the atoms, planets, and any spin you have created on your own)
the totaled motion field sets the speed of light in an area, and mostly set how fast our clocks run
how this is linked to gravity is that when this field is running faster in one side and slower on another side, it takes more time for the internal spin of an atom to complete on the slow side, so it tends to move to the slow side, because the atoms make a motion field by just existing, matter tends to fall together. and that effect is gravity

not sure if I answered your question well enough. but not sure how else to put it
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Old 12-24-2017, 04:32 AM
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Holiday break

Quote:
Originally Posted by spacecase0 View Post
in an electric motor ...
magnetism, electricity, motion...
EM = F

I don't see motion.

Oh well. Carry on. I'll sit and watch.

Merry Christmas or happy holiday whatever your belief may be. Peace

bi
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Old 12-24-2017, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Where (and/or when) would you (or anything) be in a non-gravity system?

Perhaps at (or just beyond) the edge of the Universe.
But at that point, what's the point?
O.K. So maybe time doesn't exist outside our universe.
So what?

I think I get it.
You're saying time exist everywhere.
Right?

bi
Time exists only in gravity systems.
For example: we live in Earth gravity-time system.
Depends on gravity-mass and its speed every gravity system
has its own gravity-time.
Without gravity-matter we have system that was called
'' absolute spacetime'' - SRT.
In this system the ''time'' is frozen - no ''time''.

===========
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Old 12-24-2017, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacecase0 View Post
I don't mean time as in days
I mean a time field, maybe call it a spin field, or a movement field.
electricity and magnetism show up at 90 degrees to each other when
something is moving, so the other 90 degrees from each of them
is movement, take the average amount of movement in an area
(usually atoms with internal spin), and that sets the magnitude of this field,
I like time field, one person called it a tempic field, but am up for other names
this other 90 degrees to electric and magnetic fields can be spinning like
in an electric generator, or straight out like with a radio wave at the speed
of light
see what I am getting at now ?
Do you want to say that electricity and magnetism have its/their own time
( a time field ) of existence ?

====
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Old 12-24-2017, 03:16 PM
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Time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by socratus View Post
Time exists only in gravity systems.
For example: we live in Earth gravity-time system.
Depends on gravity-mass and its speed every gravity system
has its own gravity-time.
Without gravity-matter we have system that was called
'' absolute spacetime'' - SRT.
In this system the ''time'' is frozen - no ''time''.

===========
So when the astronauts were on the moon, they were in different time? Your theory makes no sense. Gravity expands or fills the Universe. You say we're in the Earth gravity system yet are we not in Sol's gravity system, and that of the Milky Way galaxy, and in the galactic cluster? There's no escaping it.

Quote:
Without gravity-matter we have system that was called
'' absolute spacetime'' - SRT.
My question was: Where, or how, or when can one be "without gravity"?

bi
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Old 12-24-2017, 04:34 PM
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while sleeping last night I got how to say it (I hope)
if there is an ether, or other fabric everything is made of, knowing how it works is critical. lets go through the various dimensions, for a dimension to be new, it has to be something new. and they are seemingly all at right angles to the previous one.
starting at the first dimension and going up
1. length, it has an orientation and a magnitude (each one of these has its own properties that also includes the previous one)
2. area, this is at a right angle to length
3. volume, this is also at a right angle
so the first 3 takes care of our 3-D space.
4. is movement, at a right angle to our 3-D space, and is typically spin
5. a divergent or convergent spin. this is at a right angle to the spinning field. this is also known as electricity
6. a curl effect of electricity, and everyone gets this one is at 90 degrees as well (think electromagnetic coil), also known as magnetism.

so most people get that dimensions 5 and 6 are field forces, but they forget about dimension 4 being a field force (mostly because it is the same on the surface of the earth pretty much regardless of where you go)
theoretical physicists have predicted dimensions that are wrapped around themselves, but failed to figure out that they discovered magnetism.

clear anything up ?
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Old 12-25-2017, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
So when the astronauts were on the moon, they were in different time?
Your theory makes no sense.
Gravity expands or fills the Universe.
You say we're in the Earth gravity system yet are we not in Sol's gravity
system, and that of the Milky Way galaxy, and in the galactic cluster?
There's no escaping it.

My question was: Where, or how, or when can one be "without gravity"?

bi
a) If you live on the planet Mars then you would vive by Mars-time.
b) Gravity cannot cover all Universe because the gravity -matter in the whole
Universe is very few.

c) Quantum ''virtual particles '' can exist without gravity.
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Old 12-25-2017, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacecase0 View Post

so most people get that dimensions 5 and 6 are field forces,
but they forget about dimension 4 being a field force
(mostly because it is the same on the surface of the earth
pretty much regardless of where you go)
theoretical physicists have predicted dimensions that are wrapped around
themselves, but failed to figure out that they discovered magnetism.

clear anything up ?
Yeah, very clear.
Scientists forgot about 4-D.
Now clearly explain what 4-D is.

==========
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Old 12-28-2017, 03:17 PM
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Is Spacetime Flat or Curved ?
The term '' absolute spacetime'' came from SRT.
SRT is theory without gravity-masses.
SRT describes physics in the absence of gravity-masses.
That means - the ''absolute spacetime'' ( without gravity-masses ) is flat continuum
and light / light quanta must (!) travel only (!) on straight line (!) and
not ''on geodesics '' / curved line as now some cosmologists think.
===============
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Old 01-06-2018, 02:01 AM
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'' A world without masses, without electrons, without an
electromagnetic field is an empty world. Such an empty
world is flat. But if masses appear, if charged particles
appear, if an electromagnetic field appears then our world
becomes curved. Its geometry is Riemannian, that is, non- Euclidian.''
/ Book 'Albert Einstein', the page 116, by Leopold Infeld. /
#
Masses (like Sun's) can appear only in local places and therefore
the curvature can appear only in local places.

============
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Old 01-06-2018, 03:15 AM
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Quote:
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Yeah, very clear.
Scientists forgot about 4-D.
Now clearly explain what 4-D is.

==========
thought I did already in my previous post

my real point was to say that space and time are not the same
mixing them together makes for bad math
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Old 01-09-2018, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacecase0 View Post
thought I did already in my previous post

my real point was to say that space and time are not the same
mixing them together makes for bad math
Mathematical definitions of spacetime:
a) Plus 4D is spacetime.
b) Light-cone world is spacetime.
c) Minus 2D (pseudo Euclidian space) is spacetime.

And all these definitions is used to explain the space and time
(spacetime) where light is traveling.
#
Physical definition of spacetime:
the velocity of light in the vacuum (!) is constant and independent of its source,
#
Vacuum (!) is frictionless continuum.
All mathematical definitions of spacetime also must be frictionless continuum.
#
Without unity these definitions the SRT debates have no end.
==============
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Old 01-10-2018, 02:02 AM
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I don't like the mathematical definitions of spacetime, I think they are flawed.
and and in case you had not seen this, relativity has been disproved
THEORY OF RELATIVITY ? UTLIMATE DISPROOF

I am suggesting that we model it another way.
leave 3D space fixed,
and then use the idea of the time filed that sets the speed of light
this leaves you with easy math and shows what gravity is at the same time.
3 space dimentions that do not bend, and a time field. (the time field being related to the electric and magnetic fields)
2 dissimilar time fields causes motion of objects (gravity) between,
this lets the star clusters that we see in the sky be possible,
the spacetime warp thing says that they are not possible, it says they would collapse, and yet they are out there in the sky not collapsing at all
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Old 01-11-2018, 07:15 AM
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Book: ''What we cannot know'' by Marcus du Sautoy.

'' Gravity is actually the distortion of this space-time surface.
If something has mass, it curves the surface. The classic way to imagine
this is to consider space-time as a two-dimensional surface, and the effect
of mass as that of placing a ball on this surface. The ball pulls the surface
down, creating a well. Gravity can be thought of as the way things get
pulled down into this well.
This distortion of space-time has on interesting effect on light.''

''So in order to find the shortest space-time path. light will
follow a trajectory . . . .''

/page 270 /

'' . . . light would be bent by presence of a large mass.''
''. . . a curved space-time was provided by the British astronomer
Arthur Edington's observations . . .''
'' . . . light from distant stars would be bent by the gravitational
effect of the Sun.''
''The fact that the light did indeed seem to bent round objects of large mass
confirmed that the shortest paths weren't Euclidean straight lines but curved.''

/ page 271 /
===============
It seems that everything is correct.
Author, a British mathematician Marcus du Sautoy,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_du_Sautoy
only forgot to say that '' objects of large mass'' (like our Sun) in the
Universe as whole are very few and therefore the gravitations effects
are only local effects. Light is curved only near (!) the '' objects of large mass''
The gravity of our Sun doesn't have influence out of the solar system.
Gravity doesn't work in the Milky Way and therefore was invented so-called
''dark matter'' and ''dark energy'', a new words, a new speculations to prove
that ''gravity'' do indeed is fundamental (not local) effect for all the Universe.
#
If you see on the gate of lion the inscription ''cat'' . . . would you go inside?
The facts say: the absolute space-time (the Universe as whole) is flat
but modern ''scientific'' inscription is said '' Universe is +/- curved'' or
''spherical'' after '' the big-bang''.

===============
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Old 01-11-2018, 08:18 AM
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The world began not with a Bang, but with a Black Hole
Scientists challenge the Big Bang Theory of origin of the universe
By Adrita Biswas
Updated January 10, 2018 13:01 +08

The world began not with a Bang, but with a Black Hole

===========================
Scientists have come up with a new theory about the origin of the universe,
and it does not involve a Big Bang! Instead, they are saying that the universe
was formed from the black hole of a previous cosmos.

Researchers from the Perimeter Institute have claimed that the Big Bang Theory,
which states that the world burst into existence from a singularity, seems unlikely.
"The big bang hypothesis has our relatively comprehensible, uniform,
and predictable universe arising from the physics-destroying insanity of a singularity
It seems unlikely," they say, as reported by Outer Places.

Instead, according to them, it is more likely that black hole is at the bottom of the matter
as they have the capability of creating as well as destroying celestial bodies, majorly stars.

According to the new theory, our universe has been formed by a fourth-dimensional black hole
that is a part of another universe. In that case, we are living beyond the horizon of the event
and it is also possible that other universes have been created by black holes in the 'parent universe.'

This theory solves the 'information paradox' related to black holes that have been confusing
scientists for many years. It states that all information and physical matter disappears permanently
into the black hole, where all physical states devolve into the same state.

If we apply this explanation to this theory, it would seem that the matter going inside a black hole
is not destroyed after all. Instead, it forms a part of a new universe.

The world began not with a Bang, but with a Black Hole

===========================
Where does the matter for '' a fourth-dimensional black hole'' come from ?
Where does matter for ''previous cosmos.'' come from ?
The matter came from '' another universe''.
And the matter for ''another universe'' came from some ''another fourth-dimensional black hole''
And so down - down . . . .

The Earth stands on tortoise and this tortoise stands on another tortoise
and so down - down . . . to infinity.

========================
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