Hi,

I signed up for PATHS mostly for spiritual development, so far it's been amazing! Intuition/insights, spiritual people, and ideas started coming like crazy.

Here's a post with my questions and Aaron's answers, for anyone who is interested:

http://www.stevepavlina.com/forums/i...arma#post54146

I've been asking some of my spiritual friends about it (and of course, recommending PATHS to them!) but they raised some questions, and those questions also got me to reconsider whether PATHS is actually helping me progress spiritually or not. They did some quick muscle-testing calibrations and found that some of them were not beneficial for spiritual progression, in that they weren't harmful (unless attachments to PATHS and its results arise) but they don't speed it up either. I did some self-testing myself and found that they all were actually beneficial (for my highest good), but I don't trust my own testing

Anyway, without further ado...

1) If PATHS isn't clearing negative karma, what exactly is it doing? Is it aiding Kundalini energy that is doing the actual work?
2) Can you learn karmic lessons without experiencing them -- by bypassing them, using PATHS?
3) If karma isn't being cleared, are the lessons that we were supposed to learn , but bypassed using PATHS, pushed into the next reincarnation to resolve? i.e. PATHS is pushing us into a higher LOC to resolve the karmic issues of that LOC, but in the next incarnation we will still have to resolve the karma we skipped over in this life?
4) Is PATHS actually pushing you up to a higher level of consciousness? I noticed that everyone reports feeling happier, more loving, more forgiving, etc., which are indicative of higher LOC. Or does it just give the effects of higher LOC, but your true LOC still remains the same? Is PATHS like being able to use the benefits of higher LOC to clear the same karmic lessons of lower LOC?
5) Aaron, you said:

"I believe on a collective level if enough people are shining enough light that it will be strong enough to entrain the rest of humanity and there will be a rapid approach to spontaneous transformation in the entire paradigm of consciousness for all of mankind. Technology can help speed this process along if used responsibly. Even with PATHS, it isn't PATHS doing the work...it is just a spark that ignites the fire within us for who we already are."

Can you explain what you mean by PATHS being "just a spark that ignites the fire"? Is it like, PATHS is a technology that quickly reprograms the subconscious mind to reflect your current level of consciousness, based on your conscious intentions? So it isn't PATHS doing the work, it is your conscious intentions doing it, but PATHS just speeds up the normal process 100x?

6) Is it accelerating the rate at which lessons come? In that case, life would actually intensify and get quite harsh at times, as lessons are being pulled up faster. However, most people seem to be getting uplifted to a higher LOC using PATHS, which means that karmic lessons aren't being learned...?

Anyway, I have lots of questions about it all, and being a dedicated spiritual seeker it's somewhat worrisome to be thinking about whether PATHS is beneficial or not! It's been doing amazing stuff for me, but I'm having doubts whether it is beneficial in the absolute sense.

Thanks for your patience in answering these questions!

Namaste

It might serve us well to define the subtle distinctions revolving around the concept of spirituality. What is spirituality?

There is the mind, body, spirit, soul, God or Creator of everything and the list goes on.

According to Biblical scripture for example: Breath of Life + body = Living Soul

Genesis 2:7 And Elohim formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Revelation 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

This isn't a promotion for the popular Bible and is being used as a reference because of its popularity. All viewpoints are welcome to be discussed.

In Revelation, sea life such as a fish has a soul so it is not unique to mankind.

So if mankind and animals both have souls, which is a physical body + Breath of Life, what is "spirituality?"

The Breath of Life, Qi, Ki, Prana, Vital Energy, Vril, Zi, and so on are all referring to literally the spirit energy, which gives animation to a body. It is the life force energy and from the perspective of energetic type sciences dealing with quantum concepts, it may be the infinite quantum potential that pervades the universe.

In my personal opinion, this life force energy is the "virtual photon" potential that is infinitely everywhere. It seems to have a consciousness and supreme intelligence of its own that is unfathomable to the human mind.

The physical body is a collection of atoms, molecules, cells, organs and systems. It is composed of "matter", which no matter how dense matter is, there is mostly pure emptiness. What fills the space and gives the appearance of something physical? That is the subject for another thread.

A "living" body has the spirit stored up to a certain degree of capacitance in the physical body and it is sent through and over the body through various passage ways, this makes "life possible". When the body is utilizing the spirit for animation, this duo forms a "SOUL".

This is obviously not unique to a human but also is the case in animals.

The above is only pointed out to give a distinction of technical difference between body, spirit and soul. At least according to the definition given in the old testament with a reference to the new testament.

Animals don't seem to practice "spirituality" even though they have spirit, soul and a body. So what makes us difference from the animals? It has often been said that animals don't reason but people do. At a more fundamental basis it is the ability to judge and know the difference.

Animals operate from instinct and it may seem they are choosing one thing over another but they are not doing so based on intellectual reasoning, reasons, meanings or judgements. They simply do as they do because they are what they are.

Since man, which literally means THINKER and not necessarily homo sapiens but a homo sapiens with the ability to think, thinking in the sense of reasoning is what separates us from the animals so it seems that the faculties of the mind are more of what we are purusing with "spirituality" than evolving a soul or physical body even though this does not rule out the possibility of those evolving as well.

It is my opinion that "spirituality" not literally but in the common sense of the word seems to be more about enhancing understandings, knowledge, the thinking ability and other aspects of consciousness or in simple terms "enlightenment". Enlightenment would mean to have more light in the sense that there is more knowledge. The opposite darkness would be ignorance.

This is not to say "spirituality" is not holistic and does not encompass the physical body because I believe it does and also the ability to cultivate more spirit and therefore be more alive. I believe in the concept of advancing the spiritual body into a superhuman body with the eventual "translation" of it into a higher existence.

I supposed spirituality is very holistic with the advancement of the physical body, cultivating more spirit to have more "life" in addition to becoming more enlightened.

The pursuit of spirituality however does seem to depend on the mind and its ability to learn, understand and gain wisdom from its analysis and experience so enlightenment may be the necessary route to take so that upon the path of enlightenment, we learn about enhancing our body, our spirit and our mind.

PATHS can definitely enhance the body, which can be a part of spirituality.

PATHS can definitely urge the subconscious mind to interact with the body in a way that it may cultivate the virtual photon potential with more capacitance. And can help urge the inspirations to pursue such means to cultivate this energy through qigong, yoga, tai chi, etc... People will most likely gravitate towards whatever their own subconscious mind most closely resonates with.

Both of these could cause someone's soul to thrive with more life and this seems to be a very sure sign that someone is becoming more spiritual.

Also, with enlightenment itself, as described in the previous post about the apperature between the conscious thinking mind and the subconcsious mind opening a little more than usual is absolutely necessary in my opinion for anyone to be able to get more and more insights into the nature of the universe, inspirations, etc... This opening is usually very, very small and is open just enough for survival.

Since the subconscious mind has full open access to the collective unconsciousness...if our conscious thinking mind had the same full opening to the subconscious, we would probably all be totally insane because there would be the infinite to reckon with and our conscious thinking mind would be to overwhelmed...as an understatement. It has been said that anyone who has had a glimpse of God has become insane, blind or a variety of other things because of being totally overwhelmed by what was witnessed.

Our ego protects us by resisting change...whereever it is in its state of being it tries to preserve to protect itself and this surfaces as congnitive dissonance, which is a symptom showing the ego is working very hard to protect its state of being. (preventing any change)

Our ego probably is also probably partially or wholly responsible for shutting the apperature between the conscious thinking mind and the subconscious down to the bare minimum to ensure its preservation. The more insight there is, the more risk there is to the ego being not only changed, but recognized for what it is.

By the enhanced use of potential by the subconscious mind/brain connection because of the use of PATHS, the connection between the conscious and subconscious is opened. In other words, instead of having copper wiring, it is like laying down fiber optics. The enhanced creativity, inspirations and other aspects surfacing to the conscious mind is evidence of a larger opening to the subconscious by the conscious mind. This inevitably leads to more "aaahhhaaa" moments or epiphanies in ones own life, which correlates to more understanding or wisdom or in other words more enlightenment.

Therefore, it is my personal opinion that PATHS not only can but does enhance spirituality in the holistic sense. With the body, mind and actual spiritual potential in and of the body.

Thanks for the replies it cleared up many of my questions.

Much appreciated

Namaste

For any ministers or other leadership for churches, temples, etc... that visit here, it would be great to hear from you and maybe let us know from your experience what you hear from people as far as what their thoughts are on spirituality and what they are doing to evolve their spirituality?

Also, anyone else who is counseling, etc... please post what your clients, etc... have in mind as far as what spirituality is for them and how they are expanding their spirituality?

Interesting thread. I once heard a man who might be called a "street person" by some, define spirituality this way: he said "I can believe things today I could not believe yesterday and I have come to a sense that everything will be ok." At first it seemed simple. But it is rather profound and sums up a lot of what we are headed to. We all want to beleive more today and we all want a sense of wellbeing.
I am a pastor. I also use the PATHS module on spirituality personally and have encourged others to use it as well.
My humble opinion is, that we are all spiritually minded people. We are created with a craving for truth and wisdom. There is universal truth. We see it everywhere and it resonates with us.
The PATHS module reinforces universal truths, helps us sense truth in the universe and see it in others. When wisdom or truth confronts us, I think the PATHS module helps us to avoid intolerance. We have all been brainwashed to believe that expanding our understanding and grasping new ideas is "blasphemy." It is not. St Paul says "retain what is good, and cast off any resemblance of trouble..."
Organized religion asks us to fit into a box, to adhere to a fixed and often rigid set of beliefs. I personally want a more expansive thought process. I came to PATHS after much prayer and seeking. I know the door was opened to me thru the SECRET, WHAT THE BLEEP and PATHS. Each, introduced me to a new way of thinking. Some I struggle with, others I see instantly in scripture. For instance, Proverbs teaches us "As a man thinks in his heart so is he." Jesus taught "Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks." What we harbor in our thoughts creates a part of our reality.
St. Paul teaches us to set our minds on spiritual things, on things "above." I don't think he was speaking positionally, but to set our minds on a higher level of udnerstanding. I recall reading the beatitudes and one that taught "blessed are the merciful for they shall obtain mercy.." It wasn;t until I read the book "Sermon on the Mount" by Emmet Fox that I got a "higher" understanding of that beatitude. Fox teaches us to be merciful to ourselves. He reminds us that we are often suffer wth self loathing and self condemnation and unforgiveness. He suggests that Christ was teaching that we need to be merciful to ourselves as well as to others. That principle is a universal truth that I have heard in the PATHS forum and what is accompished in some PATHS modules including self esteem and positive thinking. Fox continues by taking the beatitude to yet another level...he suggests it is not enough to just be merciful to others in our actions, we must also be mericful in our thoughts. He suggests the hypocrcisy of giving a piece of bread to an enemy while still calling him an enemy in the secret place in our mind! WOW! PATHS helps us transform our thought patterns not by hypnosis or some crazy mind altering method, but by re-inforcing the truth that is within each of us---the truth that is in essence SPIRITUALITY.

Thus endeth the lesson

Frank

www.paths-renewal.com: Program Authoring The Human Subconscious

Thank you Frank!

What an amazing, and informative view on Spirituality and how it ties into PATHS. I agree with you when you touched on how we are all brainwashed into thinking certain things. It seems that from a young age we are all taught to focus on what we can't do instead of what we can, and it is amazing how so many people make judgments and insert doubt into anything positive that they see people trying to accomplish. What they are really doing is displaying their own limitations of thought and practice.

It is those people with open minds, positive mindsets and the belief that anything is possible who truly change the world.

Gary

When we can accept the fact that everything we know is not all we can know, we open ourselves to so much..St Augustine wrote that all he can ever know of Gd is that he can never know all..

Frank
www.paths-renewal.com: Program Authoring The Human Subconscious