You are US citizen, right? What are you talking about high gas prices? Your country is pretty much subsidizing the fossile fuel users with those rediculow prices.
What is your plan than, use up all the oil you can find, only increasing the chances of needing imported plastics even when you've switched the infrastructure to alternative energy transportation?
HIGH gas prices are in the interest of mother earth, short and long term. Inplicying some form of price elesticity (lower volume sold when price per unit is greater) will save the environment directly. The prospect of expensive gas will get more smart brains on board, installing HHO on demand sytems, or developing better ones themselves. All for the better of the air quality, which your country has not option but to SHARE with the rest of the world. And if you keep making "our" air dirty, when we export fossil fuels to you, we're not going to give you a nice price for it, either.

The way I see it, the US has the LEAST energy efficient vehicles, burning up crazy amounts of fuel, for only 300 million citizen. They get their gas for a song, but complain more than Europeans who DO get to pay lots of taxes to fill up their higher tech, reduced emission vehicles.

See how GM would be coping with gas prices more in line with other western countries. Who knows, you might be able to get some actual funding from corporations to make alternative fuels available. Talk to the largest gas-users. Like air lines, transporters, bus companies. Are they happy to pay what they're paying? HOw much would they invest collectively to promote alternative (clean and cheap) fuel?

@cloxxi

HOLD UP JUST A SECOND!

This self-imposed govt of the United States in no way, shape or form represents my ideas or beliefs. It is NOT a govt of the people, by the people or for the people.

It is a govt that is run by corporations.

So, when the rest of the world wants to blame the United States for problems, which I agree it does cause problems, just remember, it does not represent the American people - it represents their own greedy profiteering interests.

They do what they want and it doesn't matter if they're democrats or republicans - they all work for the bankers, oils companies and pharmaceutical companies.

The Americans can vote one way but they do another thing anyway.

The major automakers have deals with the oil companies and it is policy to make low efficiency vehicles. It isn't conspiracy it is business for them. Don't you realize that a new car dealership makes about 30-40% of it's income from a new car sale and that the other majority of its income is in SERVICE to the vehicle? What % of the service comes from carbon buildup, etc... from low efficiency? Quite a bit! It is a very simple concept to understand.

So Cloxxi, what is YOUR solution?

Actually, there is a huge secret profit in auto sales, often greater than the actual sale, that is tied to selling high-interest loans. Most folks who know about the car biz will tell you that's where the real money is (and incentives)... Especially in city areas where the average incomes of folks are less, and the predatory loan practices run rampant. Ever wonder why they state the price of a car in terms of monthly payments in their advertising?

But points well given and taken

It is very important to note that "shale oil" and "oil sands" are the single most polluting form of mining ever conceived.

If you live in North Dakota: PLEASE study the results of the Alberta Oil Sands, and see what it has done to the ecology of the area... TENS OF THOUSANDS of square miles of watershed has been poisoned and affected. It is hideous, and sickening to see mercury and other heavy metal-tainted lakes and rivers, not a living organism to be seen, where pristine land once was.

Is this price we must pay for "4-Wheelers", for "Jet Ski's", for giant power cruiser yachts that get "0.5 MPG", for using large trucks and SUV's to drive to the local store?

There is no need for this pollution.... Either from mining the oil, or from burning it. There IS need for some friggin' SANITY, though... Before it is too late for all of us.

How many times have you heard a car ad mention 0% financing "for those who qualify." Anyone EVER gotten that rate from a car dealer? I doubt it's ever happened in history.

You will ALWAYS do better to get that loan from your own bank than from a car dealer. If you qualify for the dealer's loan you will qualify for your bank's loan.

peak oil

There are many ways to lease a car new or used at a fraction of the price of purchasing one. There are many things that can be negotiated out of the contract in a leasing agreement and at the end of the lease with option to buy the car out, the total money spent can be up to 50% or more discounted from outright purchasing the vehicle.

Dealer's often add vehicle delivery fees - well they're all double billing your on this because the manufacturer already included this, etc... dealer holdbacks, etc... it is a very dirty crooked business.

I agree Jibbguy that if the extraction of that oil is extremely detrimental to the environment that care should obviously taken.

I posted this thread originally just because I believe the peak oil concept is a scam and always has been and I believe that the Earth is constantly producing oil and it has never had anything to do with dinosaur bones.

I'm not sure how valid this Lindsay Williams info is, I wrote him but I guess he is too busy to respond to anyone. But very interesting if true:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...-williams.html

Here is another interesting take on oil and where it may have come from in whole or partially:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...rigin-oil.html

Anyway, many oil fields that are already setup for pumping and have gone "dry" are suddenly filled back up...what are they waiting for and where did it come from? Either they never went dry, which I doubt because they would want to pump in as they can and obviously there aren't more and more dinosaur bones being added to the ground - all signs point to the concept that the Earth really is making oil all the time and we'll never run out...I have thought for years that is is tectonic plate lubrication but just and idea.

If peak oil is a scam, and I think it is, I still don't think it justifies the continual use of it in ridiculous ways when there are obviously other options for energy production that would be advanced quickly if there was just the funding.

That Oil Price is still that high, because they speculate at with the Price at the Stock Market.
That's the only Reason, because some Peoples would lost either Way a lot of Money.

For the low Peoples they tell the Myth of to care about Mother Nature,
same as the Global Warming Story.
The Earth change anyway the Climate, thats the Run of Events,
and no Chemtrails to 'cool down the Weather' but spread Poison, what cause Alzheimers desease will stop this.
Its anyones own Fault, if he believe her Storys what they tell, just that they make her Piles.
That is a big dirty Game, what is played here.

Or do anyone believe, when 'They', like the Industry, really care about Nature,
they stop to produce Cars, what only run on OIL? What a Joke.
There been even alternatives at 1930 with Gas and Wood, but what left again ? Oil based Cars.
And noone tell, that our technology isnt that far, that they cant optimize any alternatives of fuels, that it runs same as only with Oil.
2005 it would be even possible, to mix Oil with HHO. And?
They changed the Electronic, that you surely CANT use HHO with your Motor.


And yes, i heared the same too, that the Oilfields refill herself with the moving of the tectonic Plates,
right now we got more Oil then request, but the Price is still just high.

FYI, I work for an American company, and consider many non-coleagues in the US my friends. I am a cyclist, and US cyclists are not typical voters. I know of maybe one proclaimed republican only, like that really matters.

My solution is to direct billions into renewable energy research. Huge oil taxes. We may not have an alternative for our plastics needs.
The new energies used, will dictate new devices. This means production, and jobs. A simple knowledge of business tells you that in case HHO on demand were to be made to work as Stan Meyer supposedly accomplished, tank stations can just sell water along the highway and make the same profits as on petrol now. How much does your local gas station make per litre or gallon, you think. Seriously. They're not called service stations for nothing ;-)

Solution for America : boycott elections where the choice is Rep-Dem. It is not a choice, it's a pseudo-choice. It's a bit of mixing it up at the parliament, nothing more. Find a new voice. Someone who doesn't care for money. Warren Buffett should run for office, and you should elect him. Despite his questionnable relation with Al Gore who after all is questionnable.

So, OIL tax, not carbon tax. And for reasons of it running out, not for insincere global warming concerns. How much tax on a can of sparkle water?

In Berlin 1989, the people took control. They took what what their's: rights, freedom, equality. Against a military power. With bare hands and loud voices.
How many bare hands and loud voices does US have? Did you read your constitution lately? What is it getting you lately?
Why is Charlie Sheen ignored?

Europe for one, is NOT taking the US seriously anymore. It started when Junior was elected (sortof), confirmed when he was re-elected, and every news items further confirms it : you're worse as a government than the Sovjet ever was.

How much fuel do you NEED? Do you NEED to drive a pickup truck to get a bag of groceries? My nation has more bicycles stands at the supermarket (always more than full) than it has parking spaces. And we are by far a richer country. We can afford proper European and Japanese cars, and national mandatory health insurance ;-)

Someone wealthy will need to take the lead, and do everything the government or elite hate them to do. Fund. Preach individualism. Preach health, not consumerism. Wealth through wisedom and love, not mateiral possessions that will be robbed from you in an approaching national crisis anyway.
Be good people. Pay taxes, and make sure they are not spent on nitwits at NASA, an impotent (911) oversized army, and too many politicians that can's spell their own second name, or tell a truth without twitching.

OK, I need to breathe now.

Decided I didn't want to feed into the distraction.

Ha, we were freed by the allies. For which reasons, and why only then, who'll tell? My country has a history of unrivalled art, trade, and colization. We traded New York for Suriname, as we needed slaves to do our work. We tried to do to South Africa and Indonesia what the US did to The New World, and the Brits to Australia and New Zealand. We kept too many alive (bad soldiers probably), the locals fought back, and later we gave up, back into our little caves in Europe. However, I think we're not pulling on the short stro anymore, and moving somewhere better. Debunked some "moon rock" recently. We dare to differ. We have no big drugs problem, as we've semi-legalized it. Our neighbouring countries, they have drugs problems, and we have some modest trouble from youngsters in speeding cars trying to be smart.
We don't have our 8 y/o playing with leathal guns, as they're simply not allowed to have. Saves a lot of lives, and red mess.
But let's not make this a pissing match (not fair, I'm tall so I can't lose, hey a science fact!).
What I was offering was the suggestion to see the perspective.

If the US need to be freed by Europe this time, US citizen will need to make a sign. The US economy is but a feather balancing on a thin thin wire. It can go either way, left or right. Yet certainly it will go down (excluding some highly unlikely but statistically existent phenomena).

If you need help, ASK for help. If you feel you're in a dictatorship, send a letter to the UN, the EU, etc. Your country is NOT the leader of this world anymore, but we're dealing with you for as long as it's profitable. If the dollar drops even more, we can't even sell cocaine to you anymore, and we might as well get a groom and make things right.
The US didn't come into eternal power when it was founded. The foundations may not have been free of evil, and the foundations may not be strong enough to keep playing with the big shots.
You're a resourceful people, find a way! Go to the streets, demand the 9/11 truth to begin with. EU stations WILL broadcast it.
But be self-critical, and stop doing the long-loved "patriot" game. That word is so dirty, it's getting out of fashion in Europe. Seriously.
A whole dollar for a litre of fuel? Deal with it, or go live in Egypt. It's no secret that the Japanese get further per litre. Oh, and their cars are safer, too. When colliding with a non-American car, a padestrian at least stands a chance of survival. Let go of the EGO.

Who was it that said...It not what the country can do for you, but what you can do for the country. Well, it's a beautiful colorful country, but it's a muppetshow. It's free though, so you're free to live, do better elsewhere. I can offer you a job and healthcare, but gas is well over $2/litre ($8/gallon). VAT is 19%, and everyone gets to pay it. There are bicycle lanes and multiple parties with distincly different views to choose from.And if the nazi's get the most votes, they're going to have to govern together with the socialists, as there's no such thing as absolute majority over here. Too many parties, it's great that way.

You can laugh about Europe and how they "always" need to be saved. Well, did you save Iraq and Afganistan? Vietnam? Why distinct?
If you need saving, do let us know. Else we may be tempted to just divide the pie and toss for it. America once was a great story, now it's a sad story. No better than any other country. You want to be respected? Take the lead in FE, that's be cool. Do a nation-wide boycott of one particular petrol brand for a month each time. See if that doesn't hurt them.
As long as you check into CNN and do the 50/50 vote toss between DEM and REP, you're going to feel meaningless and part of something that was NOT designed to serve it's people.
Maybe we made a very bad deal when we traded NY for Suriname. All the gullable slaves are in NY now. They see a bomb, but when CNN says plane, they believe that. And they support their leader, even if he's an evil idiot. We didn't get that kind of service, at all.

(disclaimer: I am 100% anti-racist and condemn any form of inequality between races. I do provoke discussion and defence by addressing generalities, to get the bottom stone up)

Decided I didn't want to feed into the distraction.

Thats so ridicoulus, to request high Oil taxes, that just shows,
what a perfect Slave of the System you are, Cloxxi.
Its like cry Daddy Daddy please teach me, i can not help myself.
And btw, the Emission from Cars is lower as 10% from overall.
Trees and Plants produce even a huge bigger Amount of CO2 as the whole World do.
But sure, when you belive a Guy, what got a Nobelprize for a Computer Simulation for a Global Warming, but just,
that People have to pay more Tax. How blind is this.

When People did stand up at Berlin 1990, then it was more a Reason,
that the System from East Germany did suck, Month before a lot from the Citizens from there did flee out from the Land,
but till today, some of them still say, her comunistic Democracy is the best,
but why did they flee then from there?
Sure, less pressure at Work and still got payed for it, and the right for own Rooms,
like, Big Mommy and Daddy care for us and give us all.
No Crime there?
Sure, but only, because they did suppress the Reports about it,
but they had the same Rate as anywhere else there, in Real.
No unemployed?
Sure, because you did go into Jail, when they dont want to go to her work,
what they got allocated from the Gouverment.
What Art? There is no Art anymore since 100 Years, that is gone.

Nothing, to be really proud of, but Peoples like you, what only listen to the System and follow exactly her lead are more dangerous then the one, what play around with her Gun freely, mostly they are this one,
who get the Gun from the drawer and start running around with it,
when anything goes over her Head, we still got a lot and enough Agressives here.
And dont worry, around Europe are really enough Peoples, what would play around with Guns

And what do Peoples do when they got some more Money? The most leave Europe,
and never come back, because most Places are better then here.
What they do with FE Research, quite nothing, its more quiet here as anywhere else,
all i can see is a big bunch of systemcontrolled small minded smart-assing Sycophants,
what still waiting for, That Things go better, as the Goverment do promise.
Or they try to sell FE Technology without a save proof, if it works or not.
And this goes on now since 20? 30? 40? Years?

And btw, the Goverments do start the Wars, its surely not the normal Citizen.
Talking about Iraq, do you still believe the Myth of Osama b Laden,
that he terrorize the World, and Bush was right ?
Wrong, there are a lot of Proofs, that it is a inside Job, and Osama is just a
Double, what did got a Facelifting at 9/11, thats why they saw him at the Hospital around there.
Wars and Terror are made from Gouverments, not from Citizens.
You really should more inform yourself better, before you try to rule others,
or judge over them.

Somthings Wrong

Just changing the subject a bit.....

I have noticed a lot of this derogative rhetoric from who ever on this board lately.
Instead someone chiming on the subject matter, while making informed ,civil, polite comments, some one always has to get insulting.
The discussion always turns away from what matters and turns into a bashing game.
I get sucked up in it quick. But thats ending now, at least for me.

I think we got a lot of people on this board as of lately that want the distraction as opposed to good technical conversation.

Got to make you wonder why they are here at all....

I am going to delete my above posts, not because I am wrong but because I don't want to be a apart of the distracting. I don't care where your from or what history you represent, who or what you believe in. Were all getting screwed one way or the other.

Matt

Interesting that my stance is so misunderstood. Like I a sukker for the system, while actually I like to think of myself as trying to think free, and not just accept facts as they are presented to me.

Charity is nice and all, but if you start most wars you take part in, and most are about money or oil, you have a bad system. My country reduces the armed forced to a minimum required to defend ourselves, and take part in peace missions. Iraq participaion prety much brought our government down, the people we not in agreement of us just waggling behind the main duck in this.
EU sees US charital work as mostly a porcelain mask, it hides what's beneith. Charity as competition, and image building. And again, war and greed does offset charital work.

While I am the first to indicate fault on the US side, I am not hiding from my own, or my country's. Especially in the past, we were much like the US now. We killed, slaved, sukked out life from the weak. My country is run by people who are poor compared to US senators. One large opposition party even has each nationally working politician transfer back half their salary back into the treasure. They cannot be bribed. Those are patriots to me. And Charlie Sheen, in the most charitable country of the world (if true) is the greatest global patriot I am aware of today. A US citizen is required to bring out in the open evil systems of greed where lives lost are just free change. And 9/11 is just the very tip of the iceberg. It's what all of the world got to see.
I'll tell you something, EU would not accept it from a EU country to fake a terrorist attack like this. Questions would be asked, they would be shouted. And not by untouchable rich and famous actors, but by hard-working politicians, as they actually care, an dtheir agenda is clearly published. Second agenda? Kicked off a party.
I may be a sukker for the sytem, but when I lose my wallet, I hope a politician is walking behind me, as he'll most certainly will track me don't to return the wallet to me. A US politician? Will probably take the money, and give it as a tip to his driver, or put it in his charitable fund. Seems like the same, but it's not.

Oil tax, why not? MY goil was not CO2 reduction. Alternative fuel can do that just as well, at a cost reduction for the consumer (GEET, or secundary HHO on demand sytems). If only 10% of oil goes to the service station, then the careful use of oil will be ensured by the taxes in the industrial sectors. Industy, contrary to consumers, is much more responsive to price fluctuations. What if bread starts costing double tomorrow, do you stop feeding your children, or tell them to eat less? Industry will find a way to use less oil. It's too cheap a resource for what it's used for now.
And in stead of taxing Co2, why not enforce a clean GEET or HHO on demand system? It seems proven by now that it only helps the environment and oil reserves, as well as save money for consumers? Make gas 2x as expensive, and use HHO on demand to get twice your mileage. Win-Win, or what? Industry can do the same trick for many applications, but at such low oil prices, the incentive just isn't there. And, they like dining with Big Oil, as they give such nice parties.

There's a lot I could do to be a better man, for Mother Earth. Already, I chose to not own a car, and use my bike where possible. Else, the train. I try to eat less meat, as it's a big load on resources. The meat I scarcely buy does't have a price component to plant more, new forests with it.
I look for solutions which can better mankind, and promote them when I learn of them. When I see bad behaviour, I try not to copy it, even if it's the natural thing for my personality.
When I need to borrow a car, and fill it up afterwards, I try to not complain about our huge petrol taxes. I try to hope my country is using the taxes to at least keep the streets smooth, clean, and prevent trafic jams. More could and should be done, and that's why I am here, reading, learning. To signal opportunities, and frankly mandatory changes for us to process.
Spreading a word is the most important thing. Once done, acting on it is mandatory. How many Americans realize that somehing dirty was going on at 9/11? What are they doing about it? We get more people on the streets for gay rights or seal clubbing than a 20x larger country gets on the streets for demanding truth about thousands of lives violently lost, by human hands. Makes you think, I hope.

The US is great, but ill. And cannot recover by itself. If you're too proud to ask for help, UN and EU may not get it on their priority list. We just do not want to be bothered by your internal problems, and we hate the extra security checks you folks imposed on us at airports, for false reasons. Security people with brathing masks? Come on! No tooth paste or home made jam on a flight? Come on!
The whole world does not revolve around the USA. Ask Gallileo.

Wait for global trade to ditch the dollar in favor of the EURO or YEN. I hope you've already paid off your mortgage, and brought your kids through education, and secured a second house abroad.

Aah, that clears the mind, a good rant in the morning :-) Thank you for that.

But we disgressed. At what cost should every drop of oil be mined? And what are you prepared to pay for home oil when it reaches the pump?

I've also studied this issue and have to agree with your assessment. There is no shortage of oil! Many huge reserves are intentionally left untapped to give the impression of a limited supply.
Oil was determined to be the energy source for transportation many years ago, and it's been that way ever since. Oil is controllable, which is a primary reason for it's choice. It's just another scam.
We are constantly lied to and deceived by industry and our government (is there a difference anymore?). It's disappointing and disconcerting to realize this, but that's the way it is. Peak oil, global warming, 911, the war on terror, flu pandemics, the recession and Barak Obama are just a few of the many frauds perpetuated by our "leaders" in order to herd and control us. I don't believe a word of what the federal government tells me.
Weaning the world off oil is a noble and lofty ideal, but it's going to be an uphill battle. Open source energy alternatives will hopefully help boost the cause. That's why we're here isn't it?

Cheers,

Ted