Hi Joit,


I'd be interested to know what type of washing machine you found that core in and are there more than 1 core in it? I think that type of core might work well for an attraction type motor.thx for posting


-Gary

Hi Gmeat,

It was a Privileg machine, its the Brand of a Catalog Company here in Germany,
but i found the same Motor into a newer Miele or AEG Dishwascher.

The Manufactor is Askoll from Italy, and i found it at the Junkyard.
There been couple of this Machines.
The Coil is allready at the Motor, i only removed the Case and the Magnet from it.
Then i got the Core and the Coil from it.
The wire is 0,2mm ( 0.001in) and both Coils have 180ohm resistance.
The Motor runs usual at 220Ac/30Watts.

But i am sure, i could make a similar Coil from an Transformator too.
Just remove the E- sheetiron, and cut off the middle Part of the E,
to get a U, then isolate the IronSheets with Hairlack, put them together again and turn Wire left and right around the |_| now.

Isolations between the sheets cause lesser loss, because you get otherwise eddy current between the certain sheets.
And screwed together with Brass or Bronce Screws.
Thats how good Transformators are made. ( A Friend teached me that )

Right now, i did cut the Wire in the Middle, and turned the Coils, to see, if that makes any Different, but seems it does'nt.
I was inspired at this from Joseph Flynns Motor and a Link in here, about the Flux at the Core.

Hi Joit,


Is there any indication as to what type of motor that is.It looks like a switched reluctance motor or a shaded pole motor,But you said there is magnets on the rotor?.I'm kind of amazed that that little motor could power a washing machine.Any more details?.Thx again for posting


-Gary

Hi again

Sorry, my fault,
the Motor is only the Waterpump. I only get it out from a Washingmachine,
and saw it at a Dishwascher too. It only Pumps the Water around in there.
But they are still a bit strong and its a AC Motor.
Some similar Pumps have a Iron Rotor, and seems, its new, to put a Magnet in. Maybe it saves Copper.
And since they make stronger Magnets, its maybe cheaper, to build them with a Magnet as Rotor
Its big like a Hand, and i did only look at the Coil and Iron anyway .

And well, i still get a lot Voltage out from this Thing, but its only like Hot Air with no Power.
Either way i would connect it to the Fan, and let it run itself
(ok, i did allready tried that), but it dont works right now,
even not with transforming the Volts.
Maybe i need a other Rate at transforming.
Seems the Torque is only inside a Rotor, what brings out the Amps.
I am about, to cut some Gaps into a Rotors, and put some Wire on it.

Hi Joit,

The main reason you do not get useful power from the coils is that each has the 180 Ohm copper wire resistance and this constitutes a rather high inner resistance, from a generator point of view.
So you may wish to make both coils from much thicker wire that still gives a reasonable induced voltage level with its obviously less possible number of turns but then you will also be facing Lenz law in your present setup?
Or in case you do not wish to make new windings on that core, you may look and find other off the shelf motor solutions to be cannibalized.
Continue tinkering!

rgds, Gyula

Continue tinkering? Sure, i will
Thats the only Way you can find something new.

I tried allready so much things, with Alufoil, winded or open, attached them in any Way, and see, if i can get better Results.
Did you know, Alu has better conduction then Copper, when its a thicker Wire? Only at small Wire it is not better.

I found once a Coil at a Monitor, where the Primary coil was turned 90° and only matched half with the Secondary, but, figure, this Coil did have a better induction then a simple Coil. Does looks like, this Primary Winding did give any Interaction with the Secondary.
There are a lot intresting thinks around, they just wait for one, to find them

But thanks for the Tip with the thicker Wire, i will try that.
I can easy remove the other Wire, its only plugged on.
And noo, i dont need Lenz' Law with me, its enough, to get a good Coil, what gives me mass of V and Amp's.

I thought anyhow, the copper resistance gives the better Induction for the Coil.
I will see..

Thanks anyway

Hi,

It is the number of turns that constitutes the induced voltage amplitude, besides the the rate and amount of flux change. So to get high induced voltage you invariably would use high number of turns but in case of thin wire you introduce more resistance as well. So you would use thick wire to reduce the resistance but thick wire needs bigger winding area for the same or comparable induced voltage amplitude and now your winding area on that plastic spool is a given size. So you have to make do with less induced voltage for the thick wire case if using the same spool.
Say you got 12V induced voltage from your 120 Ohm coil. Say you load it with a 20 Ohm resistor. The current in your coil and in the 20 Ohm will be 12V/(120+20)= 0.085A or so. Now this current makes a differing voltage drop in the coil and across the 20 Ohm load. Inside the coil the voltage drop is Vc=0.085*120=10.2V and across the load the voltage drop is Vl=0.085*20=1.7V This is a big loss for the coil (10.2V times 0.085A is dissipated in the coil wire), just due to its rather high inner resistance.
If you could make a coil with thick wire that gives say 4 Ohm inner resistance only but say you could induce still a good 6V in it (with a less number of turns), then the current in the same 20 Ohm load would be 0.25A (6V/(4+20)=0.25A) and most of the heat would be created in the 20 Ohm now, a much better situation, compared to the previous case.
(I simplified the digits above a little.)

rgds, Gyula

Hi again,

Thanks for Explaining me this, very usefull.

But no good news from me, i tried to make it with 0,9 Wire, and got now 0.4 Amps, but only 0,6 Voltage. I guess, the wire was a little to big.
The other Coils, i had there did have both about 90 Ohms, when i split them.
But i see what you mean, it shows the effect very well.
I hope, there is a workaround for Lenz' Law, maybe the Trick is, not to press the Coild out, maybe you need to suck it out with a opposite Potential.
I was with an half Eye on the Paralell path too,
- Directory:Flynn Parallel Path principle device - PESWiki
and here
How Parallel Path Gets Over Unity

and thought, i can get some xtra Effect out.

My main Target is'nt anyway, to let the run the Fan by itself, i know, this isnt very effiecient, i wanna figure out, how to build a efficient Coil, because a Coil with only a ironcore dont works for me very well.
And therefor i can say, this U-Core get the most Induction out for me.

To apply the Coil into a Motor, i think, i need to complete rebuild one, and need to design the Coils new into, because this one we got, look more like, they suck the Power out. And thats only good for the Electric Company.

Actually is there a Hungary Company, what figured out 'After 19 Years'
how to build a Generator, what powerup itself, and produce Power,
and 'finally, they can produce sellable Energy'.

Even, when a Friend told me, that he did see one from this Generators allready at 1960 from the Us-army in a Hospital, what did need a small Motor, to give him the Rpm, and after that, it runs by itself too.

But they are allways good, to try to fool us new with some Surprising News.

Hi,

Yes, 0.9mm wire (if you meant that) is thick indeed for that size core, 0.4-0.5mm sounds better, you could make more turns and increase induced voltage amplitude with still small wire resistance of 2-3 Ohms (you may wish to study copper wire sizes, lenght and electrical resistance tablets on the net or in a textbook).

Re on Lenz, with the setup you are tinkering with I do not think you can reduce or elliminate significantly the effect of Lenz law.
I think member Allcanadian started just on this topic a new thread, No Bemf Motor thread on this Forum. A very good approach what he shows!

There is another idea from Slavek Krepelka on circumventing Lenz law but nobody has presented measured results from his ideas yet. See his pages:
Lenz Law and
Lenz Law 2

Re on parallel path, yes it is a clever and practical way for adding up the fluxes of two or more permanent and that of electromagnets because you may reduce the input power for the electromagnet and still get a higher resultant flux as a result. But do not forget: in a conventional setup the action-reaction law still holds, you may have a big flux stream available but then Lenz law can work upon it also with a big reaction...

Another solution for a coil was shown first by Nikola Tesla, have you seen his Coil for electromagnets patent? here it is: Nikola Tesla's "Coil for Electromagnets" It is worth reading carefully. The bottom line for his shown coils is that the construction inherently creates a resonant LC circuit between coil A and B and if you excite this setup with pulses on the resonant frequency, then there will be no resistance for the current to pass through other than the wire ohmic resistance.

regards, Gyula

Hi again,
i got a small break, i was ill some days, Damn booze .

This are some very intresting Links, even the first one from this Generator.
To bad, that there are no results, what it gives Output.
But i think, this is one of the Designs, i will try once, because it looks very intresting.

But the Tesla Coil doesnt looks bad too. Just compare them, with the Tesla Turbine, here
- http://hackedgadgets.com/wp-content/tesla_turbine_5.JPG
and here - Nikola Tesla - Der Teslatrafo
It looks pretty the same, only once, its mechanical, and once for electrical use.
Maybe it would be a good idea, the bifial teslacoil on 2 Discs or 3 make between 2 Disks of Magnets, like its made at the N- Machine
here - Die N-Maschine und der Homopolargenerator
But there would be flat Cables more handy, to make clean Coils, i have to rub our junkyard again for that
Right now, i stop going there, or he thinks, i will sell all that stuff, what i did get from there last days.

I read almost all Threads in here, and i like the Bemf- Motor too, but i still look more for a standalone Motor,

Ever heared from Henry Fords Magneto? It was the Alternator from the first Lizzy's.
And he figured a Way out, to attach some stronger Magnets on it, could drive only with the Alternator and a flywheel without fuel, and had about 20 Hp with it.
But he get under pressure from the Gas- and Oilcompany.
and i dont find any Infos about it at the Web, only a small Video, where you can first pay for Membership, to see the Video complete.
Technologie | Das Geheimnis des Magneto | secret.tv
There, i think, must be a Way, to build again a Motor like this.

Right now, i still play around with my coils, and it does make a Different, if i face the start of the Coil to the Bottom of my U Core, or turn one, that it has start and end at the Bottom.
I attached a few windings with 0.4 mm Wire at the bottom at the U too, put the 2x 0.2mm Coils to it, and put my Multimeter at different places on it, and got one 40V out from it, when the Fan runs at 6 V.
It was like /\/\/\_||||_|||| where it was the Coil with the bigger wire, and the 2 Smaller wire Coils, i take the Current from the Point between the thick and the first thin, and at the end of the 2 thin Coils.
But still only Hot Air, what it gives out.
That way, i tried to get some Amps out, when the Big Wire Coil is Centered at the Bottom from U and the 2 Small Coils are beside.
i think, the best way is still a Rotor with Stator, where the Power have to stay inside, to get even Power out.

Here is a pretty simple Way to build a Magnet Motor
- YouTube - Perpetual Energy?



Here are some nice Links for some Setups
Magnetmotor

And well, i found this benched Magnets inside a Blower Fan at the Frontside
from a Car, what Howard Jones seems use at his Motor. They are about 4cm(1,46inch) wide, and 5cm( 1,98inch) long and benched.
Just once is the Northpole outside, and once inside at one Pair of them.
Maybe you should put 3 beside, and slightly diagonal shifted, when someone try to build a Motor with it.

Since i found this Picture
Wissen Magnetmotor.at
with the Part where there are no magnetic field lines at the Quadrat
i think, i will use allways quadratic Coils from now on

The yellow Text at right upper says, this from each other push off Swirls cause Rooms,
what are free from Magnetic field lines

Hi,
Ok Time is passing by, Coils change, and i made another Coil with a small Coil at the middle.
I like the Way to build it, anyhow simple to do, and much to play around with it.
Video

Left Picture is again the big Coil with the small one over, just some sharper (i hope) as at the Video,
this Quad Coil at Wood is a Experiment from Ou.de,
where someone want to spread this Setup, after his Theorie, it should give OU.
We want to figure it out and work on it, and he looks for rebuilder,
before the 'Copycats' wanna put her Claws on it.
Right now, i dont know, if he only has a Theorie, or some practical backround.
its the same as with my Coil, it gives Voltage, but with the Quad setup no Ah (2mA),
my guessing, the distance is to big for it.