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  #2251  
Old 12-07-2011, 01:31 AM
jehdds jehdds is offline
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Guys,
Just did a vacuum test. Negative 25"
Hg dropped current from 3 to 1.5
mA. Rapid
Decompression allowed current to
Return. Positive pressure test
Will follow.
Very best regards,
Jim
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  #2252  
Old 12-07-2011, 02:41 AM
jehdds jehdds is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jehdds View Post
Guys,
Just did a vacuum test. Negative 25"
Hg dropped current from 3 to 1.5
mA. Rapid
NOTE CORRECTION HERE REcompression or Pressure increase for equalization allowed current to
Return. Positive pressure test
Will follow.
Very best regards,
Jim
Guys,
Hyperbaric increases current for sure. Test taken to 50 psi. Depressurization does not spike voltage as does occur to the extent as with opening ambient into vacuum chamber which is a sudden RISE in pressure.
Video will follow.
Very Best Regards,
Jim
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  #2253  
Old 12-07-2011, 02:58 AM
NextGen1967 NextGen1967 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsReplicate View Post
Problem: You'll be going from "short" to "small load" to "short", how do you expect to see recovery like that?

Your last paragraph made me facepalm... 1 Volt divided by 1 M ohm = 1 micro amp * 1 Volt= 1 micro watt. 0.52 Volt / 100k ohm = 5.2 micro amp * 0.52 Volt = 2.704 micro watt. 1.2 mV (measurable on standard DMM) / 100k ohm = 0.1 micro amps * 1.2 mV = 1.08 nano watts. This is the most basic relationship in electricity, and it's accuracy never changes because the resistor is a multiplication factor (aka how the analog current meter works). In fact, you can obtain MORE accuracy by using resistors here because the cell has a high input impedance. When you match that impedance: you will get the maximum amount of power transfer possible (aka: the cell under optimal load). To test recovery, you need to INCREASE resistance from that.
I think I do not understand you, or you not understand me?

Recovery can be seen when the meters are REMOVED from the load... Let it 'rest' for a while, and on reconnecting an meter, one can see the 'bounce back' that has happened while the meter was disconnected (Witch is not a re-charge of the cell, and *that* was my point).

Hmmm, my point was just to show IB that by removing a load (the analog meter), the cell would 'recover' , and NOT 'recharge', and thus also NOT to 'test' for any accuracy of recovery, but rather show the effect.

About the accuracy of measuring over resistor on this type of cell... I'm not going to argue about this, other then saying that you will not get accurate measurements with the average standard DMM and resistors (unless one is easy satisfied and believes that what he measures is accurate... Also 1.2mV on a standard DMM can as well be about 1.15mV to 1.25mV, same for uA's -resulting v*a error-, add the resistor accuracy, leads of the meter and environment signals going into cell and wires and there you go...) There is a difference in *theory* and practice results.

Quote:
1.2 mV (measurable on standard DMM) / 100k ohm = 0.1 micro amps * 1.2 mV = 1.08 nano watts.
Say again ???

Your view and my view about accuracy might differ, and that is ok with me tough :-) But I just want to be clear that my whole point was to show an effect -only-, and not to complicate things with measurements and include accuracy. It has been dragged out of context I think. Sigh, such an simple point I wanted to bring over and got messy like this haha. Maybe I was not clear in the first place of making my point?

--
Ron.
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Last edited by NextGen1967; 12-07-2011 at 03:09 AM. Reason: Minor change.. Changed 1.20 to 1.15mV
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  #2254  
Old 12-07-2011, 04:05 AM
LetsReplicate LetsReplicate is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NextGen1967 View Post
I think I do not understand you, or you not understand me?

Recovery can be seen when the meters are REMOVED from the load... Let it 'rest' for a while, and on reconnecting an meter, one can see the 'bounce back' that has happened while the meter was disconnected (Witch is not a re-charge of the cell, and *that* was my point).

Hmmm, my point was just to show IB that by removing a load (the analog meter), the cell would 'recover' , and NOT 'recharge', and thus also NOT to 'test' for any accuracy of recovery, but rather show the effect.

About the accuracy of measuring over resistor on this type of cell... I'm not going to argue about this, other then saying that you will not get accurate measurements with the average standard DMM and resistors (unless one is easy satisfied and believes that what he measures is accurate... Also 1.2mV on a standard DMM can as well be about 1.15mV to 1.25mV, same for uA's -resulting v*a error-, add the resistor accuracy, leads of the meter and environment signals going into cell and wires and there you go...) There is a difference in *theory* and practice results.



Say again ???

Your view and my view about accuracy might differ, and that is ok with me tough :-) But I just want to be clear that my whole point was to show an effect -only-, and not to complicate things with measurements and include accuracy. It has been dragged out of context I think. Sigh, such an simple point I wanted to bring over and got messy like this haha. Maybe I was not clear in the first place of making my point?

--
Ron.
It has been clearly defined that these cells, when in their dry state, have a charge and discharge curve similar to a capacitor. That means the the word "charge" was not really incorrect even though the majority of what would be happening was recovery. These cells can charge to above the galvanic voltage, when you reconnected the meter you first see the pulse current from the capacitance, then the steady galvanic voltage. That means in order to test just recovery: you'd need to measure the recovery without the capacitance recharging. That can only be done by leaving it on a load resistor. Was that clear enough?

The multiplication factor of the resistor allows for increased accuracy when you take into account that you can also measure the resistance of the resistor and the DMM is a 10Mohm load in parallel with that. Using a large resistor also increases the apparent voltage which causes less inductive pickup errors in the leads of the meter even if you don't measure the resistor and accept the error as +/- 5%. If you don't believe me that's fine, but I have taken instrumentation courses on DMMs and I know how to calculate the correct value from the reading shown on the screen (which is a nightmare for any AC voltage that is not a perfect sin wave, and in reality none are). In reality, you gain NO accuracy not using a resistor and in specific situations you can gain accuracy by using them.

Yeah, I messed up on that one calculation, my favorite calculators (I had 2) are broken so I have to do math in non-user-friendly OpenOffice spreadsheets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jehdds
Guys,
Hyperbaric increases current for sure. Test taken to 50 psi. Depressurization does not spike voltage as does occur to the extent as with opening ambient into vacuum chamber which is a sudden RISE in pressure.
Video will follow.
Very Best Regards,
Jim
Jim,

Can you give us a multi-point PSI to "stable output current" graph? (Well, a graph is not needed, but the data for it is) That way we can determine if the effect is linear or not.

Thank you,
^.^
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Old 12-07-2011, 06:21 AM
NextGen1967 NextGen1967 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsReplicate View Post
It has been clearly defined that these cells, when in their dry state, have a charge and discharge curve similar to a capacitor. That means the the word "charge" was not really incorrect even though the majority of what would be happening was recovery. These cells can charge to above the galvanic voltage, when you reconnected the meter you first see the pulse current from the capacitance, then the steady galvanic voltage.
Ahh, THAT is where we have different views, thanks I understand your point of view now. In *my* opinion, the word 'charge' was incorrectly used, because I see the effect as (majority) recovery... Granted, there *is* capacitor effects, but these are also in effect in normal batteries, and is rather small compared to the 'recovery'. As a note, the cell is far from 'dry state'.

If you have time, build a cell, and place it in a controlled humidity and temperature (to stabilize output a bit).... put an appropriate load on it, and then release the load... Have a scope (high impedance) on the cell and watch its -slow- curve. A Faraday cage (where I test my cell in), might help accuracy a bit. You know that EMF in motion does not want to 'come to a stop' instantly - right ? [showing 'overshoot'/'undershoot' (ring) effect].

Agreed on the pulse current, which is mostly driving the 'penny' type oscillators.

Quote:
That means in order to test just recovery: you'd need to measure the recovery without the capacitance recharging. That can only be done by leaving it on a load resistor. Was that clear enough?
Again, my point was not to MEASURE, but merely SHOW the effect of the recovery. Just a *simple* observable observation *only*. (e,g. One can throw a stone in the air and see it fall back down to earth (simple observation)... OR one *could* measure it's acceleration, calculate its maximum velocity, and how long it takes to hit earth again, but that was not my point). That should be clear enough ?

Quote:
The multiplication factor of the resistor allows for increased accuracy when you take into account that you can also measure the resistance of the resistor and the DMM is a 10Mohm load in parallel with that. Using a large resistor also increases the apparent voltage which causes less inductive pickup errors in the leads of the meter even if you don't measure the resistor and accept the error as +/- 5%. If you don't believe me that's fine, but I have taken instrumentation courses on DMMs and I know how to calculate the correct value from the reading shown on the screen (which is a nightmare for any AC voltage that is not a perfect sin wave, and in reality none are). In reality, you gain NO accuracy not using a resistor and in specific situations you can gain accuracy by using them.
No worries, I believe your above, tough it is 'textbook' knowledge,... I have done the actual measurements (up to fA on other projects, which is nearly impossible to measure with any accuracy in normal 'house' conditions), and can say that practice results are often FAR from theory, and the +/- 5% is often off by far far more. The v*a resolution of an average DMM can lead already to a 10% error value I believe? (Example 1.15mv*1.15uA to 1.25mV*1.25ua could on an average DMM be shown as 1.2mv*1.2uA)

"1.2 mV (measurable on standard DMM) / 100k ohm = 0.1 micro amps * 1.2 mV = 1.08 nano watts. " (added for clarity)

Quote:
Yeah, I messed up on that one calculation, my favorite calculators (I had 2) are broken so I have to do math in non-user-friendly OpenOffice spreadsheets.
Hehe, I often use the old fashion brain calculator still, and it's general that errors in calculations creep in at times... I find myself messing up at times also on those.

But as a small point, you notice *how small really* -if seen the correct value of calculation- the watts produced were in the above calculation... HOW much energy (watt) can one measure with just two pieces of wire of say 20 cm length in free air in the general house room? did you check that? Not to mention the energy the cell could receive from the free air... In nW and pW measurements, environment is a MAJOR influence... in fA measurements a car passing some 100 meters away can influence the measurement. Not to mention the need to ridiculously need to insulate the wire leads from leakage. (yes, I have done those measurements).

I value your thoughts and insight and knowledge and think its good to have you here on the board, and doing the website. Don't get me wrong :-)

Later in time (I am really busy at the moment), I can send you some video's of measurements and show how horribly wrong a measurement can go when one overlook environment influence while making uV/uA/uW -or smaller value- measurements. Do the penny kind of oscillator (non toroid wound coils) *really* only use the energy of the cell, or do they 'secretly' pick up -depending on environment situations- energy from outside the cell. What you think ?

Small note: I did Fourier analyses on a cell inside and outside a Faraday cage, showing a *huge* difference between them in the 0 to about 7.5Khz range. By changing the physical volume and dimension of the cell, they can be made into a ONE component radio receiver and amplifier, an old fashion 'crystal radio earplug' -hardly can find those nowadays- would probably be able to make enough audible pressure for the ear to sense.

Ok, back to cell research now?

--
Ron.
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  #2256  
Old 12-07-2011, 08:17 AM
jehdds jehdds is offline
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Guys,
Here is the pressure test video
Hyperbaric increases,
vacuum decreases current.
Pressure Tests Positive Negative - YouTube
Very Best Regards,
Jim
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  #2257  
Old 12-07-2011, 09:09 AM
LetsReplicate LetsReplicate is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NextGen1967 View Post
Ahh, THAT is where we have different views, thanks I understand your point of view now. In *my* opinion, the word 'charge' was incorrectly used, because I see the effect as (majority) recovery... Granted, there *is* capacitor effects, but these are also in effect in normal batteries, and is rather small compared to the 'recovery'. As a note, the cell is far from 'dry state'.
Agreed on the level of dryness. Diodes also have capacitance, so do inductors... In fact, EVERYTHING has all 3 (inductance, capacitance, and resistance) at all times in varying amounts based on frequency. Argument for capacitance forthcoming:

Quote:
If you have time, build a cell, and place it in a controlled humidity and temperature (to stabilize output a bit).... put an appropriate load on it, and then release the load... Have a scope (high impedance) on the cell and watch its -slow- curve. A Faraday cage (where I test my cell in), might help accuracy a bit. You know that EMF in motion does not want to 'come to a stop' instantly - right ? [showing 'overshoot'/'undershoot' (ring) effect]
"EMF in motion" is a redundant, just like "current flow"

Curve as a term implies capacitance, slow curve implies large capacitance. Galvanic recovery *should* be a straight line.

Yes, I know inductance (the property acting as "mass" which produces electrical inertia) well I also know about resonance and radio:

Quote:
Small note: I did Fourier analyses on a cell inside and outside a Faraday cage, showing a *huge* difference between them in the 0 to about 7.5Khz range. By changing the physical volume and dimension of the cell, they can be made into a ONE component radio receiver and amplifier, an old fashion 'crystal radio earplug' -hardly can find those nowadays- would probably be able to make enough audible pressure for the ear to sense.
7.5Khz is a AWFULLY low frequency to be receiving at: your cell should not have had enough inductance to reach that low of value. So unless the cell you tested was a fairly impressive sized coil, then capacitance must be the culprit for making the frequency that low.

Doing the math on that results in hilarity btw: at least several uF.

A tank circuit with rectifier is exactly how I did the equivalent model of these cells.

Quote:
Agreed on the pulse current, which is mostly driving the 'penny' type oscillators.
Quote:
Later in time (I am really busy at the moment), I can send you some video's of measurements and show how horribly wrong a measurement can go when one overlook environment influence while making uV/uA/uW -or smaller value- measurements. Do the penny kind of oscillator (non toroid wound coils) *really* only use the energy of the cell, or do they 'secretly' pick up -depending on environment situations- energy from outside the cell. What you think ?
No they don't just use the cell, the coils being "cross-wound" with a gap between them results in a virtual capacitor who's plates are electrically biased by the EMF being complimentary. The net result is an oscillator that will accelerate itself into resonance as long as the energy entropy is overcome (where the cell comes in). Any energy that it can use to overcome the entropy will work: which is why the oscillator can be run on an antenna.

Quote:
Again, my point was not to MEASURE, but merely SHOW the effect of the recovery. Just a *simple* observable observation *only*. (e,g. One can throw a stone in the air and see it fall back down to earth (simple observation)... OR one *could* measure it's acceleration, calculate its maximum velocity, and how long it takes to hit earth again, but that was not my point). That should be clear enough ?
I used "measure" incorrectly there, I wasn't referring to accuracy, only that watching the voltage recover across a large resistor value (like 1 M ohm or more) would dampen out the the overshoot, ringing and any capacitive recharging. That would give a much better demonstration of the effect you were looking for.

Quote:
No worries, I believe your above, tough it is 'textbook' knowledge,... I have done the actual measurements (up to fA on other projects, which is nearly impossible to measure with any accuracy in normal 'house' conditions), and can say that practice results are often FAR from theory, and the +/- 5% is often off by far far more. The v*a resolution of an average DMM can lead already to a 10% error value I believe? (Example 1.15mv*1.15uA to 1.25mV*1.25ua could on an average DMM be shown as 1.2mv*1.2uA)
+/- 5% is 10%: the example you show is LSD (least significant digit) which in this case is less than +/- 5% error. Practical measurements always have "acceptable error" but taking multiple data points in "steady state" (long term stable) will average out noise errors.

I have no reason to bother measuring anything below 100nA, nor do most people because the charge is so small it can't accomplish anything detectably useful at that level.

Quote:
I value your thoughts and insight and knowledge and think its good to have you here on the board, and doing the website. Don't get me wrong :-)
I enjoy discussing these things with people that can hold their own in an argument.

Quote:
Ok, back to cell research now?
Okay, this way an argument over semantics anyway.
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  #2258  
Old 12-07-2011, 11:08 AM
NextGen1967 NextGen1967 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsReplicate View Post

...<shorten for brevity>

Okay, this way an argument over semantics anyway.

Pfew... Good idea :-)
With a minor note that you had a few errors in your above reasoning (I can see you did NOT do the *actual* Fourier analysis. Actually, seeing the crystalline structure, it isn't so weird -textbook vs reality). Must note the cell I tested was slightly different, but no coil or anything.

Will keep it to a rest tough, and come back at an (much) later time with figures and data (which might explain things better to you).

Tough I like your style of reasoning (only not here as it distracts from what we try to do).

Great insight on the penny type energy harvesting.

The fA measurements was a loosely joint project between TI, an German company, and me... Normally I don't work in *these* small ranges also, tough nano and pico is what I often mingle with

On another note: I send you an PM about your website.

--
Ron.
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  #2259  
Old 12-08-2011, 02:12 AM
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NickZ NickZ is offline
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@ All:
You guys are bringing up some interesting points. The idea that the oscillator circuits like the Penny oscillator, can AlSO be picking up other, unknown stray, or outside of the cell type of EM influences is important. As these oscillator circuits can also be shorting out, with relation to that same unknown energy, or not compatible with it, and so missing out on it, instead of utilizing it, and working with it. Meters, scopes, signal analyzers, and frequency generators may not really be seeing it, either, or be able to duplicate it. this "other energy" as some of this can still be hidden from their site. But some useful natural Earth or ambient type frequencies are already known, and being exploited.

I've been utilizing outside ground connections for other circuits that I'm working on, and I see a strong influence of the Ac line leached inductance or Ac hum or noise, affecting sensitive devices, Av plugs and possibly even these cells. I see everything as an antenna, or ground sink now, as I try to tune into that illusive just potential energy, and grab it by the tail...

I've been thinking of driving devices similar to the PSEC type of passive coil devices in combination with my Carbon/quartz cells, or other types of non galvanic "dry cells", as the driving source of voltage for that type of device. Since being able to utilize the natural non-man made Earth Frequencies to power devices, is easier said than done. Like trying to tune into a radio station without using a radio. Unless you own all of the needed equipment necessary. Mucho bucks...

So, the output of these cells can be used to power or "polarize" other useful low draw circuits. Such as the PSEC type coil device, and others, which can also draw some juice from the ambient, to further help to raise their combined output.
But all this, is as tricky as it gets...
NickZ
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Old 12-08-2011, 05:17 AM
jehdds jehdds is offline
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Hi Guys,
Update on cell fabrication. I made three 1"x3" Graphite-Magnesium plate cells.
Two were fabricated and were polarized at ambient pressure. One cell was polarized then inserted into the pressure cell and taken to 90psi. ( I was tempted to polarize under pressure but NOTE DO NOT DO THIS DUE TO HYDROGEN LIBERATION AND POTENTIAL FOR SPARK..... Thank Goodness for the little voice in the back of your brain that says Remember the words adiabatic compression.....) So each cell at this point is making 36mA and 1.5 Volts. After resting overnight, vice tests on all as well as pressure testing the two bench cured ones as well as vacuum test on the pressure cured one.
Any Guesses to outcome?
Very Best Regards,
Jim
PS I placed two 1" o-rings flat on the plate before pouring the molten salts on the Mg. This way there is a physical resilient stop to prevent bottoming out and shorting the plates as well as allowing for a passive rebound force that may move the plates opposite one another after pressure from vice etc is relieved.
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Last edited by jehdds; 12-08-2011 at 05:20 AM. Reason: Forgot to add construction detail PS
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  #2261  
Old 12-08-2011, 11:53 AM
redrichie redrichie is offline
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Well. I guess the current increases like before. But what is the official voltage / current?
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Old 12-08-2011, 03:10 PM
jehdds jehdds is offline
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Guys,
Overnight update.
Bench dried two cells :13mA, 1.6V

Cell sealed and cured under pressure: 24mA, 1.5V

Note: I believe this difference is due to less evaporative losses for the intrinsic water in the salts. No water was added for fabrication of these cells.
Curing under positive pressure seems to work and maintaining under positive pressure will obviate evaporation, and I would guess that is why John Hutchinson made his housings. This material does not imbibe water with the ease of the carbonate cells.
Very Best Regards,
Jim
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Old 12-09-2011, 12:41 AM
jehdds jehdds is offline
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Update #3. Came home from work and one bench cell registered 13mA 1.35V and the other 23mA 1.35V.
Cell sealed in chamber :1.56V and 20mA.
Odd. Again, The functionality of the cells I believe is intrinsically linked to the residual moisture content of the electrolyte. Two cells in series lights a white LED no worries. Time perhaps to move on to another form of cell involving Kiln ovens.....
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Old 12-09-2011, 01:03 AM
jehdds jehdds is offline
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Just did one more quick test using two cells in series sealed and under pressure.
In the hyperbaric chamber, upon pressurization, VOLTAGE DECREASES SLIGHTLY THEN EQUILIBRATES VERY SLOWLY but does not rise to ambient voltage. CURRENT INCREASES QUICKLY and exceeds ambient readings.
Very Best Regards,
Jim
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Old 12-09-2011, 02:05 AM
ibpointless2 ibpointless2 is offline
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I removed the pressure from the cell and let it rest to see if the cell normal power is affected. It seems the normal power the cell gives off is not affected by the squeezing of the cell, this shows that no physical damage is being done to the cell when i crush it.
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Old 12-09-2011, 02:39 AM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is online now
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It might be possible to position a spoke shaped wheel of cells, that roll with a heavey weight pressing down on a slight incline, timed to roll just enough to capture the pressure spike off each cell consecutivly maxing output. Imagine hose shaped cells straped accross the roller of a gravel compactor.
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Last edited by Allen Burgess; 12-09-2011 at 02:43 AM.
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Old 12-09-2011, 03:48 AM
jehdds jehdds is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Burgess View Post
"Imagine hose shaped cells straped accross the roller of a gravel compactor.
Far superior idea to hitting ones self in the head with a hose filled with gravel and these cells as we head slightly uphill both ways while we try to figure out how to take this to the next level......hey that just might work

Just kidding, puzzles are assembled one piece at a time.....

Very Best Regards,
Jim
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Old 12-11-2011, 03:30 AM
mikrovolt mikrovolt is offline
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Back around the end of August John Bedini grew some outstanding crystals in a magnetic field, (one has hypperbolic shape inclusions)also he was charting star cells with series resistive load.
please note he does not load to zero but allows a little dipole remain as shown on the meter. John's test setup concentrates on how continuous energy flow can be measured under load. There was a dip recorded after a piezo spike that caused a slow recovery.

Also John discussed humidity, temperature and piezo.
Crystal Cells in Series Restive Load Over The Weekend - YouTube
Crystal Cells in Series Restive Load Over The Weekend - YouTube
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Old 12-12-2011, 10:01 PM
jehdds jehdds is offline
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Guys here is a nifty synthesis to get some ideas rolling....
http://rm1.cc.lehigh.edu:8080/dept/I...atsumisago.pdf
Very Best Regards,
Jim
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Old 12-13-2011, 03:23 AM
jehdds jehdds is offline
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Guys,
Here is the latest small test.
Acid Test On Mg Layer - YouTube
It should upload soon.
Very Best regards,
Jim
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Old 12-13-2011, 04:37 AM
b_rads b_rads is offline
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Polar crystal - ?

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Originally Posted by jehdds View Post
Guys,
Here is the latest small test.
Acid Test On Mg Layer - YouTube
It should upload soon.
Very Best regards,
Jim
Great vid - remember, ZnO is a sound absorber. In order to do this, it must generate heat. Suggest you look at polar crystal classes as these maintain a constant dipole without any stress and are pyroelectric as well.

Brad S
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Old 12-14-2011, 08:09 PM
ibpointless2 ibpointless2 is offline
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@Letsreplicate

I couldn't help but notice on another thread you mention you use to work for the oil industry. "Hi, I used to work in air quality monitoring for the oil industry. I was the one who calibrated all the test equipment, and was usually the one sent to monitors emergency situations." -Letsreplicate --- site: Mystery Odors Making People Sick


I don't mean to put you on the spot, I just wanted to know why you don't work their anymore and why you're in the field of "free energy" replications now?

Once again I mean no harm.
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Old 12-15-2011, 03:43 AM
LetsReplicate LetsReplicate is offline
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A brief, completely off-topic history of ^.^

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@Letsreplicate

I couldn't help but notice on another thread you mention you use to work for the oil industry. "Hi, I used to work in air quality monitoring for the oil industry. I was the one who calibrated all the test equipment, and was usually the one sent to monitors emergency situations." -Letsreplicate --- site: Mystery Odors Making People Sick


I don't mean to put you on the spot, I just wanted to know why you don't work their anymore and why you're in the field of "free energy" replications now?

Once again I mean no harm.
It's a fairly long and complicated story. The short, short version is that a co-worker of mine accidentally electrocuted himself and died. When my turn came for the grief counseling sessions: instead of being counseled, I was berated. I left the meeting under the impression that they were trying to blame me for the death. To that point I'd had no idea how my co-worker had died, so I started asking questions about it. Things snowballed from there... Being sent on emergency assignments is no fun at all, and I had to pull WAY to many late nights fixing messes for them to take their crap. Oil service companies also hire entire teams of accountants that try to nickle-and-dime their employees out of money: every pay check became a battle.

After that I designed industrial biomass boilers with a heating engineer (all over 1 million btu). I loved that job! It was mostly building 3D, mechanically working models of the boilers, furnaces, and hammer mills to identify design issues, making plate patterns for laser cutting, then overseeing the welders as they built the unit. We had some of the best biomass boilers in the world (we had the best soot-blower system, and were the only company making flat cyclones). That job ended with the economy collapse: the engineer committed suicide.

When it comes to working, I've had bad luck despite my best efforts, but you've got to keep trying till something lasts right? I have an affinity for energy research & development, it's what I've always wanted to do as a career. I would be replicating all these ideas on my own anyway, it makes sense to me that people might want to know how they work and replicate them too, so I don't mind explaining.

Hope that answers the question.
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Old 12-15-2011, 04:58 AM
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kukulcangod kukulcangod is offline
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Cool I will never accept defeat I will never quit....

Letsreplicate
Your story is compelling, I've seen a landscape being destroyed by oil waste one where I used to enjoy nature and got me fascinated with its wild creatures...I've survived a couple of financial crisis in my country of origin and we are still once again facing one more...It got better for me , took a while but if there's no light at the end of the tunnel at least we are trying to make one!! ....My salt battery goes on almost 30 days with 6 super bright blue leds and can't wait to manufacture my own version of a selflooped generator, funds and time are scarce but I know it will work, one day I will share ala Bedini I don't want no one being mislead just yet . I'm working on trying to add a stubblefield coild to selfloop my battery, any ideas and help are welcome, it is producing about 25 mA and it is being pulsed with a joule thief, the huge coil can't pulse a rotor , so I will set up ala Bedini with ironless coil , and circuit, so far the pulses from my reed switch with 2 AA batteries delivers up to 20 over volts!! ...yes I already burned one!! it works good up to 2 volts without heating up but... fascinated by it going!! need to know how to calculate for the coil, I was using the golden one from radio shack, you know the one that comes in red and green as well, can't remember the gauge, I used it as it was already winded, the reed got to hot , 5 mini neos and a roller skate wheel and ball bearing for a rotor, need to adapted to the salt battery output ...Good luck , keep up the good work
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Old 12-15-2011, 06:56 AM
LetsReplicate LetsReplicate is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kukulcangod View Post
Letsreplicate
Your story is compelling, I've seen a landscape being destroyed by oil waste one where I used to enjoy nature and got me fascinated with its wild creatures...I've survived a couple of financial crisis in my country of origin and we are still once again facing one more...It got better for me , took a while but if there's no light at the end of the tunnel at least we are trying to make one!! ....My salt battery goes on almost 30 days with 6 super bright blue leds and can't wait to manufacture my own version of a selflooped generator, funds and time are scarce but I know it will work, one day I will share ala Bedini I don't want no one being mislead just yet . I'm working on trying to add a stubblefield coild to selfloop my battery, any ideas and help are welcome, it is producing about 25 mA and it is being pulsed with a joule thief, the huge coil can't pulse a rotor , so I will set up ala Bedini with ironless coil , and circuit, so far the pulses from my reed switch with 2 AA batteries delivers up to 20 over volts!! ...yes I already burned one!! it works good up to 2 volts without heating up but... fascinated by it going!! need to know how to calculate for the coil, I was using the golden one from radio shack, you know the one that comes in red and green as well, can't remember the gauge, I used it as it was already winded, the reed got to hot , 5 mini neos and a roller skate wheel and ball bearing for a rotor, need to adapted to the salt battery output ...Good luck , keep up the good work
It really depends what country you're in, North America regulates the oil industry pretty well in my experience. The idea is to try to do as little damage to nature as possible. Wells are mostly drilled in farmer's fields (it's far cheaper to rent land that is already cleared) and following the logging industry harvesting an area (the logging companies replant trees later around the roads they make leaving only a small clearing for well access).

Humans still depend on oil, the best we can do it get the oil the "right way". That's why the protesting of the Alberta oil sands is so pointless. By comparison, they are one of the cleanest ways to get oil possible. The oil still has to come from somewhere, and if it's not coming from Alberta, which has strict emissions and efficiency standards, then it will come from a place like Nigeria, which has no emissions standards and is known for destroying the environment.

What are you using between the wire on the Stubblefield coil to prevent shorting? That paper covered steel twist-tie wire that it being used for the penny oscillators is looking pretty sweet to me.

Remember that voltage is not the same thing as power, in a joule thief you are compressing the input energy into current pulse. The apparent voltage of the current pulse depends on your load resistance. You don't gain any power by compressing it into a pulse, but you can do things with the pulse that you can't do normally.

If your reed switch is heating up, add a resistor to limit the current through it. If you need to highly limit the current through the reed then use it to switch a power transistor or high current relay on and off, that will work just as well but with a little time lag.

The Radio-shack 3-pack of magnet wire? I've used those.
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2036277
  • 40 feet of 22-gauge wire [clear]
  • 75 feet of 26-gauge wire [green]
  • 200 feet of 30-gauge wire [red]
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Old 12-16-2011, 09:38 AM
Haggardhagi Haggardhagi is offline
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sharing is caring, do you dare to care to share?

some ideas in regards to ibpointless literal crystal battery.... by the way, keep truckin along everyone, yall doin great. thanks for the inspiration, aloha

Literal crystal cell ideas - YouTube
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Old 12-16-2011, 10:47 AM
area46241 area46241 is offline
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Radioshack wire...

interesting direction nice story about the biomass work and yes resistor that thing down with lidmotors suggestion using the shacks twenty five ohm resistor wire wound reostat works for me...I use two spools of the red and it makes a nice 300 milli amp bifilar two hundred volts or maybe more with an iron core using neos on an eight pattern poplar wheel mounted on lowes poplar board charges like crazy making those batterycrystals happy breeding that lightning ... The power plant was crankin out gigawatts today I take the lab coal samples for clean air God save the mighty wabash valley and pray for a new way to make this light.
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Old 12-16-2011, 12:27 PM
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Sorry for the intrusion , but has anyone ever tried using Alkaline water vs acidic water , when building a crystal cell...I would really love to hear about it
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Old 12-16-2011, 12:36 PM
ibpointless2 ibpointless2 is offline
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The last few days I've been testing the self charging of one of my cells. This cell is the one with Epsom salt and Salt substitute with paper separator and cooper tube and magnesium ribbon wrapped around it. Here is my results so far.

Started at 1.494v @ 31uA ...... 12-14-11 at 1:30PM

10:15PM 12-14-11 .... short was removed and allowed to rest for 20 minutes and this was what i got. 1.440V 50uA

I let it sit over night and the next morning this what i got. 12-15-11 7:06AM...... 1.481v 15uA

I then shorted it out for the day and removed the short at 6:30PM 12-15-11. I recorded power at 12-15-11 7:45PM and this is what i got....... 1.470v 60uA

I then let it sit over night and the next morning 7:00AM 12-16-11 this is what i got...... 1.496v 24uA


It is interesting that i get the most self charge power after about 45 minutes of it sitting but letting it sit over night drops a little. At least it is staying around the original power of the cell, so this does show to me that it is self charging.
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Old 12-16-2011, 12:56 PM
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The reason I ask, is because of the following info:

from The Legacy of Marcel Vogel

Quote:
According to Marcel:

“This structuring is best assayed with a UV spectro-photometer where one finds an increase in UV absorption due to an increase in the water bonding from the water forming chains on itself. The magnetic moment of this structured water is increased by 0.07 gauss and there is also an increase in the pH and dielectric conductivity. Boiling of the water after structuring shows no change in the UV spectrum, so one can conclude that a permanent chemical change has taken place. When a drop of this structured silica water is dried on a slide and compared with untreated silica water, the photomicrographs show the formation of needle-like silica crystals in the structured water drop while the untreated water dried to an amorphous mass of silica gel. This shows that the process of structuring water produces a structuring or ordering effect on the solutes in solution.”8
Quote:
Marcel Joseph Vogel (1917 - 1991) was a research scientist for IBM’s San Jose facility for 27 years. He received numerous patents for his inventions during this time. Among these was the magnetic coating for the 24” hard disc drive systems still in use. His areas of expertise were phosphor technology, liquid crystal systems, luminescence, and magnetics.

In the 1970’s Marcel did pioneering work in man-plant communication experiments. This led him to the study of quartz crystals and the creation of a faceted crystal that is now known as the Vogel-cut® crystal. The Vogel-cut® crystal is an instrument that serves to store, amplify, convert, and cohere subtle energies.

Marcel’s research into the therapeutic application of quartz crystals led him to the investigation of the relationship between crystals and water. He discovered that he could structure water by spinning it around a tuned crystal, altering many of the characteristics of the water and converting it into an information storage system.
you should check it out
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