I live in a VERY dry climate (especially in winter). In the heated cells I can remove the water to the point that the cell reads as open circuit: 0v. It takes a drop of water to activate the cell after I make them. As far as I'm concerned, that is proof that water is necessary to produce the current.

I'll have to see what happens if I try 99% isopropyl alcohol to activate the cell, thanks Jim.

Hmmm, couldn't a "cold cell" be made just by mixing everything with the alcohol and letting it evaporate? That way the crystal would meld together without loosing the inert water that's trapped inside the crystal.

What happened to John Bedini and Chuck with the carbonate cells?
Haven't seen anything new about those cells they were building for a while.

Aloha all,

How does heptahydrates and sugar correlate? Supposedly sugar is piezoelectric. Has anyone experimented with these crystals, either with the sodium based mixes or alone? IB's pressure experiment might coincide with this.

Thank you all for everything
Take care

Correct.
At least I am assured by extended dwell time in the desiccant chamber,
That all water was removed that could be without vacuum.
Now that being said, Is that amount added atypical or typical for galvanic cells,
And is that the modus for how it works ie consuming metal?
That issue is Not clear. Again, do galvanic cells show voltage without water?....
Very Best regards,
Jim
PS
IB your last video on pressure is interesting, but sustained piezo?
Not sure, but perhaps the electrodes are getting closer and that is allowing for increased current? Just a thought if subjected to hyperbaric chamber would you see increase?

I have figured out what powers my cells, its pressure.

Here is the video Pressure Is what powers the Crystal cell - YouTube

You do bring up a good point. I'm sure a hyperbaric chamber would squeeze it too so that test would not be valid. You do have me puzzled a bit.

The cell in the video has a piece of notebook paper that separates the two metals, and that paper has the two crystals (salts) in it. There is not glue in that cell so the distance in the metals is small.

So far I have a big deep cycle lead acid battery sitting on the cell. When placing the deep cycle on the cell it goes up to 33uA but over 30 minutes it sets at 28uA. If it was the metals getting closer it should have stayed at 33uA and not drop at all. Also placing the object on the cell should raise it up instantly, but as you see in the video its a gradual increase. The cell still holding at 28uA for some hours now and I will keep an eye on it, I worry the amps will keep dropping but so far so good.

But I can't ignore your point so I'll be on the look out for that thank you for bringing that up.

Nice demo video IB
I wonder if you get the same lifespan out of previously known mixtures, with the pressure being permanent ?
Perhaps it increases lifespan, fades, or stays the same as well as increasing output....well worth experimenting with.

May bring new meaning to the phrase "squeeze the last drop out of it"

IB,
If there is no glue,
The displacement potential will be small. If pressure is the cell powering it would only be confirmed by hyperbaric equal pressure on all aspects of cell.

If DISPLACEMENT causes power then hyperbaric will NOT do it.
Does this make sense? It would increase density
Of ambient fluid air bathing the cell and may change output on many levels.
I'm building a chamber to test my cells etc. Might be worth trying
Very best regards,
Jim

Hi Guys new mix I tried.
Very Interesting and is akin to the Waxy looking semi dry cell description that Pie wrote about.
20.0gm Epsoms doped with galina and pyrite and powdered graphite .2gm
20.0 gm Rochelle salts
10.0gm Zn0
.5gm LiClO4
1gm fine powdered Feldspathic porcelain dust
.5gm Salt Substitute, KCl.
Heated and it melts into a real sticky goo that maintains its molten state MUCH longer than the crystal cells I have been making. After nine hours, the remaining part of the batch has the consistency of a tootsie roll or firm carmel with a crusty outer thin shell. (no I would NOT recommend eating this
Interesting to assemble cells and almost can act like a glue to hold things together.
I made a Graphite cylinder with graphite led electrode and it is holding 600mV upon dead short it showed over 100uA then drains down like a cap to 10uA But it seems to refill.

If anyone else has seen a mix that acts like this let me know.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

GUYS,
UPDATE INFO, I USED 70% ETHYL ALCOHOL NOT ISOPROPYL for Hydration in this experiment for desiccant chamber. Sorry for the error.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

I can remove the amp meter from the cell with the heavy object on it and it will charge up. so to charge this cell all i need to due is put a heavy object on top of it and it recharges. I find this interesting.

It might be just a 'recovery' of the cell... When you remove the scale amp meter.... It might climb up, due to removal of the 'load'... To see if this is true, place an digital amp meter on the cell and let it settle for a while.... (While the heavy object is on the cell already)

Then ADD -do not remove the digital amp meter- the scale amp meter, and see if the cell slowly falls down to a lower stable value..... (after any eventual fall, it might climb a little bit to finally kind of stabilize).

Then if settled again, REMOVE the scale amp meter, and see on the digital meter (which is still always attached) if the cell climbs up again.

If it goes down and climbs up with adding and removing the scale meter, it is probably reflecting the load of the scale meter itself.

The climb (if any) *usually* includes an 'overshoot'.. Meaning the voltage climbs to an -too- high point after an 'recovery' and then slowly falls down a little bit again to a sustaining value.

--
Ron.

Question: since current meters have to be in series to work, how do you expect him to connect the analog on after the current has stabilized WHILE measuring the current?

No matter how he does that, he'll have to break the circuit, and change the impedance. On the DMM the cell is driving effectively no impedance on the current setting; and analog current meters are really a volt meter across a known resistance (mine are 2k ohm, but it varies based on scale). An impedance change like that is GUARANTEED to give you a different current output from loading anyway.

Could you perhaps rephrase that test to be voltage measurement across known resistors then calculate current? The test would be more valid then.

Interesting cell, only a dentist could ever make it though (just like the palladium one). Is it just as reactive to pressure as all the other cells or does it just deform? Porcelain dust would be similar to glass dust in reactivity right? Would glass dust cause the same slow-drying property?

And sorry to get on your case about this but "Pie" is only how it's pronounced: my name is ^.^ (It's a common mistake, no worries )

"Interesting cell, only a dentist could ever make it though (just like the palladium one). Is it just as reactive to pressure as all the other cells or does it just deform? Porcelain dust would be similar to glass dust in reactivity right? Would glass dust cause the same slow-drying property?

And sorry to get on your case about this but "Pie" is only how it's pronounced: my name is ^.^ (It's a common mistake, no worries )[/quote]

^.^,
Sorry about the name confusion, please forgive my ignorance of character to sound etc. I should be able to do better at that in that I am but a dentist who has COMPLETELY illegible writing!
I am currently uploading a video I just took. It is most reactive to pressure, and confirms IB's find of linear current, perhaps due to mass strain and very very slow but persistent displacement on the scale of microns, which is enough to cause current. It is interesting material to be sure and would make a dandy strain gauge! Now to figure how to imbed it in a mouth guard for people who severely grind their teeth at night and Bingo, they could charge their Ipod in their sleep! Or use it as neuromuscular biofeedback as a self generated tens appliance!
Very Best Regards,
Jim

Guys,
Perhaps what we have with this latest mix is a system of multiple elements that are piezo. Small particulate size ZnO and Rochelle salts both being affected. Perhaps there is a synergy of microscopic lattices that impart the ability if the lattice to move across the face of the other? Very Very interesting stuff. All Thoughts welcome.
Very Best Regards, and I will let all know when the video is up.
Jim

Guys,
Here is a link to the video regarding the cell that has Rochelle and ZnO as Piezo constituents. The recipe is as above. The video is being processed and should be ready to view shortly.
Very Best Regards,
Jim
TAFFY like POLYCRYSTALLINE CELL WITH POLYPIEZO ZnO, ROCHELLE - YouTube

No need to break the circuit.

One simply could place a bridge (switch) and flip the switch? (switch closed is bypass analog amp, open is go through analog amp). Basically in the 'cell' case and without any additional loads (besides the meters), the meter goes directly from pole to pole, so one can say it is the same as parallel (both can be connected that way).

Yes, measuring over a resister could be done, but it was just to make an observation point, that the cell likely did not 'recharge', but was just recovering from the release of the scale meter load. GUARANTEED that the analog meter is a load, and thus a recovery process will happen after unloading, and due to the high impedance of the cell, this is a very slow process (actually it is a ringing, in very very slow peace).

So, just to show an process rather then do a precise measurement

However, when measuring over an resister, one would need quite accurate and high resolution meters to do a meaningful accuracy measurement on such low energy levels.

--
Ron.

Crystal Cell is given pressure by Clamp - YouTube

crystal cell being squeezed by a clamp.

@Ibepointless2,

Major discovery breakthrough! I owned a "Crystal Radio" as a boy, that was powered by a small crystal cube that generated a current from the pressure of a screw clamp. The power self sustained for years. I noticed the crystal begin to deform after years of use; A visable reduction in size and shape of the crystal resulted over time, I presume from the loss of trllions of electron moles in the form of current, like copper windings loss. I predict a consistant and reliable current strength from pressureing the poly crystaline material. Pipe clamps might work even better. The energy to mass conversion ratio is E=MC squared. The material should begin to shrink slowly after mega Joules of power has been outputed at Einstien's rate.

Now, are the electrons lost or shear displacement of lattice allowing for rebound deformation......
Very Best Regards,
Jim

Guys,
I may be incorrect, but did it not look as if John Hutchinson's cells that he showed running a fan was encapsulated in a housing? This is
A way to ensure no extended desiccation and maintaining pressure.

Perhaps multiple disc cells stacked in series with a simple screw as
Clamp I the housing like a flashlight housing.....
Pieces of puzzle coming together?

This I think was the video:
Hutchison demonstrates Zero Point Energy - YouTube
IB great demo with clamp.
What is your mix again?
Very Best regards,
Jim

Hello,

I have been experimenting with some flat cells and can confirm IB's discovery. I found the effect when connecting one of my cells in-series to a 9V battery and an ultra-bright LED. BTW, The flat cell's high ESR allows the 9V to run the LED brightly without shorting. The cells are made from plastic slipcover sheets (for microscope slides stapled together) and bound by electric tape (images forth coming). When I applied sustained pressure (squeezing) the cell in a darkened room I could seen an intensity in brightness from the LED. The question now is how long will this boost be maintained. I have a little portable desk vice and will run your replication tonight.

BTW, the cells are made of copper foil and oxidized magnesium ribbons as electrodes. Both electrodes were lightly brushed with silicone adhesive and I added what I call a p-type salt mix to the copper electrode and a n-type salt mix to the magnesium electrodes. I simply sprinkled the mix on the silicone-coated electrodes and patted them in with my fingers. I then wrapped a thin-craft cloth (that is dry but previously super-saturated with Epsom and Salt Substitute) around the magnesium electrode (and coated the lot with a liberal amount of PVA glue) and made a sandwich between the two plastic slip covers. One of these puts out about 1.3-1.45V average and two in-series will light an LED moderately (depending on how many magnesium ribbons I strap together to make an electrode, increasing surface area). Although, prolonged running the LED will dim to a minimal brightness after about 8 hrs.(as expected), I think the power of all of these cells though will be in connecting them in vast arrays either in series or in parallel and exposing them to high pressure in a mechanical vice casing of some kind.

IB, in your test the uA of you cell increased by 100 fold. Imagine if you had a flat version of this cell and arranged them in arrays 2-D then stacked these arrays on top of one another.

Here are the ingredients for the p-type and n-type:

p-type:
copper oxide powder
pulverized (Epsom, salt substitute, activated charcoal, Iron Oxides red and black)

n-type:
zinc oxide powder
pulverized (Epsom, salt substitute, activated charcoal, Iron Oxides red and black)

Anyway, IB excellent work, some pics of my cells will be attached soon. Now back to some more cell making I want to get to a 40V stack by New Years

-Artisan

Problem: You'll be going from "short" to "small load" to "short", how do you expect to see recovery like that?

Your last paragraph made me facepalm... 1 Volt divided by 1 M ohm = 1 micro amp * 1 Volt= 1 micro watt. 0.52 Volt / 100k ohm = 5.2 micro amp * 0.52 Volt = 2.704 micro watt. 1.2 mV (measurable on standard DMM) / 100k ohm = 0.1 micro amps * 1.2 mV = 1.08 nano watts. This is the most basic relationship in electricity, and it's accuracy never changes because the resistor is a multiplication factor (aka how the analog current meter works). In fact, you can obtain MORE accuracy by using resistors here because the cell has a high input impedance. When you match that impedance: you will get the maximum amount of power transfer possible (aka: the cell under optimal load). To test recovery, you need to INCREASE resistance from that.

It does not take current draw to deform the crystal, that is being done by the constant pressure. Place the same cube under the same stress without drawing current, it would also deform.

The question I have is: does the pressure cause the lattice to "break" (separating the current path and killing the cell) over time, or does it just deform the crystal like glass under pressure?

Glass is not really a solid: it's a liquid that's cooled to the point that it appears to be a solid (super cooled liquid). 200 year old glass windows get thin at the top because the glass is moving downward due to gravity.

Jim,

Yup, that's exactly what I thought when I first saw the video. He didn't care about dessication though, those tubes were for compression... Well, honestly they look like they might have been screwdriver antennas: but that type of antenna does have an air piston in it which could be used to compress the crystal.

I'm really surprised the argument over water went on this long and people are just getting curious about the pressure transduction now...

My plan involved CD sized discs, but is very similar to your flashlight idea. In my plan there are two inductors on each disc which will cause a magnetic field in the bolt's core. In addition to direct usage current, 2 bolts containing discs could be used to influence each other: this could cause additional, harvestable, resonation.

^.^

Interesting cell Artisan! Can I add it to Let's Replicate?

Sure. Please do. BTW, I edited my last entry. I failed to mention to brush the cloth-covering the magnesium with some PVA glue.

Cheers,

Artisan

It does not take current draw to deform the crystal, that is being done by the constant pressure. Place the same cube under the same stress without drawing current, it would also deform.

Jim,

Yup, that's exactly what I thought when I first saw the video. He didn't care about dessication though, those tubes were for compression... Well, honestly they look like they might have been screwdriver antennas: but that type of antenna does have an air piston in it which could be used to compress the crystal.

I'm really surprised the argument over water went on this long and people are just getting curious about the pressure transduction now...

My plan involved CD sized discs, but is very similar to your flashlight idea. In my plan there are two inductors on each disc which will cause a magnetic field in the bolt's core. In addition to direct usage current, 2 bolts containing discs could be used to influence each other: this could cause additional, harvestable, resonation."

^.^,

Great idea! Maybe we need to rethink how to make coil cores as well ....
Especially in bucking configuration. Using this type materials to adhere core but allow magnetic force to be micro mechanically harnessed! Cool.
Physical piezo driven oscillations imparted to coil in concert with inter-coil resonance.....
Rats, how am I going to ever get to sleep with so many experiments?!
Thank goodness for coffee!
Very best regards,
Jim

Here are some images as promised. Once you have everything in place it takes about 3-5 minutes per cell. Most of the time will be spent in the preparation.

Cheers,

Artisan

Attached Images

	flatcell_eletrodes.jpg (425.8 KB, 21 views)
	5-cell_array.jpg (409.1 KB, 20 views)
	5-cell_in-series_join.jpg (454.4 KB, 14 views)
	5-cell_array top-side.jpg (396.2 KB, 19 views)
	parts2.jpg (310.5 KB, 19 views)

There is a very vaild argument that applying pressure to the cell is only causing the electrodes to get closer and thats why i get more amps.

When I apply pressure to the cell the amps go up steadly as you seen in the videos and will reach a peak and then stop. One at that peak one would think that since the metals are now closer the cell will continue to make more amps but it doesn't. Keeping the same pressure on the cell over time (hours) the cell will drop down in amps. The amps still stay higher than the original amps it had without the applied pressure but the amps going back down is the only reason so far i can give that just placing the electrodes closer is not the clear reason why the cell amps go up.

Either way pressure is a great way to boost the output of a cell.

I've been watching everyone and I wonder... when I was in school in chem lab, engineering materials and composition class...we learned never to use intense heat to grow crystals (albeit the purpose was not for batteries). First we did, and then compared. With heat they end up frequently twinned or show static disorder.

The other problem with heat is the rapid onset of nucleation. Instead we learned of Liquid Liquid Diffusion in a binary solvent system. It's a bit slow, but works well. Compaction of poorly made cells, rapidly formed with heat, may be collapsing air pockets as well?

Last week I made two cells: Epsom/Alum, and I cooked them, using a copper cup, and aluminum electrodes. I followed the J.B. method (as best as I could) but the quality of my materials was probably not the greatest and I did them in a preheated pottery kiln, one in oxidization, and one in reduction environment. Which, was different and lead me to start thinking about what might constitute the right maturity temperature, as well. They still work, but their voltage is only 0.8, which I thought was pretty lousy?

@Ibpointless: how do the cells you made, that you "just let form", I believe you called them True Crystal Cells, how did they fare compared to "cooked cells".? This is closer to yet another method we did in class; evaporative method.

If true crystalline structure is what we are after; high heat likely isn't the way to go... that's pretty much a "known" in chemistry, as I've seen it?

The cells that i don't heat up and just let sit are the best cells i've made. The cell i use in the videos about squeezing the cell to get more power is one of the cells that let sit and form. The cell that powers the LCD clock thats been running for over a month is the by far my best cell, and i let it sit for a week to allow it to form.

IB,
As I mentioned, properly it is not just "pressure" that is at work here. Rather it is stress and complex stresses to the polycrystaline matrix to be sure. There is a maximum that will be encountered due to the particle size, the surface area and other factors such as what forces and the rates at which the matrix can be stressed without destroying the interplay of the particles. Not to bring back memories from dental materials class, but Poissons ratios etc.
Shear, Compression, Tension are all involved at some level. It seems to be the displacement of the lattice constituent framework may be the generative source of the current. If the cells equalize, then that would make sense. Now, can the reverse movement or stresses impart the same current?
The engineering using the phenomenon you have displayed may need to be reversible to an extent to prevent bottoming out of the cell parts, or have a thickness of material enough that it would take a VERY long time to bottom out or encase it such that it makes an internal constrained layer that becomes resiliently able to rebound with removal of the pressure. This could be provided by having a elastic internal stop lets say on the inside of a cylinder that is closed, or even having a carbon piston within a Magnesium cylinder that could be reversed in direction to provide stress in the opposite direction after a certain shear distance has be traversed. Just tossing out ideas. Great work and thanks for the update. Time to melt some salts.....
Very Best Regards,
Jim