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  #1561 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2011, 04:33 PM
jehdds jehdds is offline
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Thanks much today for your assistance. i bought the second ingrediant Chuck recomended for making more Rochelle salt.
All
I saw 2 Marcus Reid cells today at John's Business. I didn't have to see them though to know they worked exactly as described.

There's an article in places on the net titeld "The Development of Expoxy Based Electrets." They liked Lithium salts best for doping."

John & Chuck,
Just to check again,
JB did not show any resin based crystal cell?
The previous question I had of polarizing crystal cells
With the hairpin as polarizing source may salient if one takes that article into perspective right?
Thank you for any insights and clarification.

Very Best Regards,
Jim
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  #1562 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2011, 06:20 PM
eternalightwithin eternalightwithin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiant1 View Post
John and Chuck

Possible cheap scource of sodium carbonate for making Rochell salt at home.
Alan
Sure, but cream of tartar, not so cheap
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  #1563 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2011, 08:07 PM
radiant1 radiant1 is offline
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Re: Jim, cheap source for somdium carbonate.

Jim
There weren't any epoxy cells. Epoxy is plastic not crystal. When I said "they" liked lithium salts best it meant those who wrote the article. I don't understand your hairpin question.

I just bought a 3lbs box of Arm and Hammer washing soda at a Fred Meyer store for $3.00. It's supposed to be just sodiium carbonate.

I need to get some Magnesium sheets before I make a cell.
Alan

Last edited by radiant1 : 09-24-2011 at 08:56 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #1564 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2011, 09:58 PM
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John_Bedini John_Bedini is offline
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The Two Chemicals

Radiant1.
The two chemical compounds are different.
Sodium Bicarbonate is NaHco3
and Sodium Carbonate is Na2 C03.
Johnb
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  #1565 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2011, 10:36 PM
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Today I went to the beach, and I picked up some carbon that was left over from a camp fire, and washed it out, crushed it and filled a capacitor can cell. I also placed several layers of quartz into the carbon electrolyte mix.
I was able to get about a volt, and several mAs. Using No chemicals, just carbon and quartz. The beach carbon quartz cell takes a charge very well, I'll have to see what it can do now...
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  #1566 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2011, 10:59 PM
mk1 mk1 is offline
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To All And John B

I was wondering if anyone tried hard drive plate they could be used to get a higher voltage from your polycrystalline cell , the are usually platinum plated on aluminum , this should ad .3 to .4 volts .
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  #1567 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2011, 11:03 PM
Slider2732 Slider2732 is offline
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I've got the platters from one right at the side of me, was wondering what the metallic properties were (and what's in the coating for the storing of info).
How would one cut it ? Dremmel ?

Definitely will try it !


*update*
Dremmel'ing works on the platters.
If you have a drive that is opened and yet you can't get the platters off because of the odd shaped screws, use the wheel disc attachment of a Dremmel to cut a flat line in the screw. You then can remove with a normal flat blade screwdriver (good tip there for many such screws, like the anti-tamper types etc)
Once the plates are off, how do we cut strips or other shapes for use in cells ?
My solution, is to score the area required with the same disc attachment, similar to how plexiglass is broken to a desired shape.
Photo below shows 2 score lines, to give a blade piece to use in a cell.
You can then bend forward and back a few times and remove just the piece needed. It saves spending ages actually cutting right through the metal


Last edited by Slider2732 : 09-24-2011 at 11:29 PM.
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  #1568 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2011, 12:30 AM
Slider2732 Slider2732 is offline
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Test cells made.
Very basic, but known to produce good runs, for me the mix works well to see about differences. No point testing with what I have no idea about.
Mortar 25%
Epsom salt (reduced) 25%
Celery salt 25%
Rochelle salt (Alum and Cream of tartar method) 10%
Boric Acid (Roach killer from Dollar Tree) 10%
Squirt of Windex 5%
12V applied for 1/2 second


1 - Larger 250V/220uF Capacitor can - HDD strip, copper strip both in cap can
2 - Strip of copper, strip of galvanized steel

1 - 0.750V at 16mA between copper and aluminium can
0.040V at zero mA between HDD strip and aluminium can.
Interestingly, after polarisation between both copper and aluminium can AND the HDD strip to aluminium can the voltage between the HDD strip and the copper was 0.810V and lit my LED oscillator very well, showing 9.5mA

2 - 0.700V, 50mA ( ) decreasing rapidly however.

Now to see what happens when they dry out.

The unfortunately scratty pic below, shows the atomic clock with current time and date, AAA sized cell still running and between are the two test cells.

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  #1569 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2011, 12:46 AM
mk1 mk1 is offline
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Hi slider

The disc is usually aluminum its the plating that is platinum is close to graphite in the galvanic scale , you could try a penny cell 2 parts hard drive , removing on of the plating , but insulate the sides of the hd plate if you use it with aluminum .

Mark
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  #1570 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2011, 12:53 AM
Slider2732 Slider2732 is offline
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OK, will do that as well

As things stand, the HDD strip seems to be of equivalence to the alumimium of the capacitor can....but if the platinum is removed from one side it could well change things in the coin type cell (will keep the platinum for doping perhaps).

Actually, laughed in a manic way, when I wondered if because i'm English I ought to write platinium
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  #1571 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2011, 01:07 AM
mk1 mk1 is offline
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@slider

Here is a chart i found , i see what you mean , aluminum to copper , and platinum to copper have about the same potential , but copper is negative in one and positive in the other .
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2189337665_428c2b4147_o.jpg (13.9 KB, 38 views)
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  #1572 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2011, 01:50 AM
radiant1 radiant1 is offline
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can't read your chart

mk1,
I can't read your chart. Is there another way to post it?\

Galvanic series

Does this page on galvanic series of materials mean the best combo of electrodes or plates would be graphite and magnesium?

Alan

Last edited by radiant1 : 09-25-2011 at 02:07 AM. Reason: added link
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  #1573 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2011, 02:17 AM
mk1 mk1 is offline
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@radiant

This is jpeg , i hope it works for you , it can be enlarged easily with your favorite viewer .
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File Type: jpg 2189337665_428c2b4147_o.JPG (84.0 KB, 57 views)
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  #1574 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2011, 02:49 AM
radiant1 radiant1 is offline
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An epsom reduction set-u[

mk1 it worked this time thanks.

I just tested an epsom salt reduction method and it worked well. Yesterday I bought a stainless steel plate and a 2 inch section of 6 inch ID steel pipe. I just sat the pipe on the plate on a propane camp stove on lowest heat. The salt did not stick at all to the stainless plate and just barely to the pipe. I started with about 1 inch deep of salt.
Alan
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  #1575 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2011, 05:43 AM
Slider2732 Slider2732 is offline
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Thanks for the table data

Have built a few more to trial different metals with the HDD strips.
Straight after build and unzapped, the strongest voltage when using the very same mixture that I created a dry batch of earlier, is graphite + platinium at 0.890V. Not much will mean much though until the mixtures dry out.
It would be interesting to redo all half dozen cells by a melting salts reduction method, rather than the liquid addition. Then epoxy seal tests.
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  #1576 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2011, 09:06 AM
jehdds jehdds is offline
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Correction to contents of cell #4,#2 etc.
To ensure a most sincere apology,
And to clarify,
I am using ZnO. Zinc oxide and not Zinc Peroxide.
My speech on my video specifies Zinc Oxide.
My inept typing produced Znperoxide.
Most definitively not the same.
The compound I use is ZnO
Note: I found some commercial Zn02 is a mix of ZnO and ZnO2
Please again I apologize for any confusion that the discrepancy caused.
Very Best Regards,
Jim
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  #1577 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2011, 03:47 PM
szucspower2 szucspower2 is offline
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carbon electrolyte

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickZ View Post
Today I went to the beach, and I picked up some carbon that was left over from a camp fire, and washed it out, crushed it and filled a capacitor can cell. I also placed several layers of quartz into the carbon electrolyte mix.
I was able to get about a volt, and several mAs. Using No chemicals, just carbon and quartz. The beach carbon quartz cell takes a charge very well, I'll have to see what it can do now...
Have You ever made a cell with only carbon as electrolyte? I mean for example: alu, carbon electrolyte, and carbon rod. If you wrote it befor, then sorry for the bad question. I am new here with a very little free time to read.
Thank you!
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  #1578 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2011, 08:44 PM
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NickZ NickZ is offline
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zcucspower2:
I have made cells using only carbon, and it does work. The beach carbon is not the best carbon, but even it works, producing about 1 volt, and 4 mA, and has no chemicals. I'm still looking for a better source of graphite or carbon to put into the capacitor cans
Yesterday I made a cell the size of an AA battery, and placed it into the AA battery holder on one of my Kooler style Hartley Oscillators. And it worked real well, lighting a white led. It looks like AA, but it not. Turning it into a perpetual Jtc.

Today I made a quartz/carbon cell using a piece of 1/2" by 2", aluminum tube that's about same size as the AA batteries. It uses a carbon rod for the anode, and also seams to be working well. Nice to be able to place these cells into the normal AA size battery holders, as the holders use springs to maintain preasure on the contacts points of the cell, which helps a lot.
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  #1579 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2011, 08:52 PM
seth seth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickZ View Post
zcucspower2:
I have made cells using only carbon, and it does work. The beach carbon is not the best carbon, but even it works, producing about 1 volt, and 4 mA, and has no chemicals. I'm still looking for a better source of graphite or carbon to put into the capacitor cans
Yesterday I made a cell the size of an AA battery, and placed it into the AA battery holder on one of my Kooler style Hartley Oscillators. And it worked real well, lighting a white led. It looks like AA, but it not. Turning it into a perpetual Jtc.

Today I made a quartz/carbon cell using a piece of 1/2" by 2", aluminum tube that's about same size as the AA batteries. It uses a carbon rod for the anode, and also seams to be working well. Nice to be able to place these cells into the normal AA size battery holders, as the holders use springs to maintain preasure on the contacts points of the cell, which helps a lot.
Hi Nick!

Have you tried anything other than a carbon rod from a battery as your central electrode? Can you get the same effect with a piece of copper wire, or is the output heavily reduced?
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  #1580 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2011, 09:36 PM
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Seth:
I starting making the cells using thick copper wire as the center anode, and it works fine, but does show signs of oxidation after a couple of days, and lower output once the copper wire starts to oxidize.
You can make the copper anodes removable, and replaceable too.
Those that have access to a gold electroplating set up, the copper anodes can also be plated with gold plating, to reduce oxide that forms on the copper. Or you can try Johns method of making the copper anode into a semiconductor by using heat. I would still like to try that as well.
The trick is to make these cells last, by not allowing air, or moisture to ruin them. These are not just galvanic batteries, and science has current theory on why these cells don't discharge, like all other regular galvanic batteries do. So, there is more to it than meets the eye...
Water can get locked in the crystal matrix, and the ships never reached the other shore (pole), and it still works... the electrodes don't oxides if they can't. That' why I use carbon.
If you are going to use the practical capacitor cans to make the cells, bigger is better, but aluminum pipe can work even better for the outside negative cathode, as it has more mass.
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  #1581 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2011, 12:34 AM
skaght skaght is offline
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You can find powdered graphite at art stores and also as a "lubricant" in hardware stores because it is slippery.
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  #1582 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2011, 05:19 AM
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Building Penny No. 2---and a new find

@All
Penny has not lost any voltage so I decided to just leave her alone and build another one I just call "Penny No. 2". She has a little larger coil and runs better. While looking at the wave form of the oscillator on an O-scope I found out that this one will run (somehow) off just the scope probe if you give it a good earth ground. No battery required. Later in the day I found out that it will run off the energy coming off the base of a table lamp if I put a piece of aluminum foil under the lamp and use an AV plug going into the Penny circuit. This might be how energy is getting into the cell that is running Penny No. 1----environmental EMF in my house. I don't know but if these crystal cell are true semiconductor devices then it is plausable?

Building Penny No. 2-- and Running on thin air.ASF - YouTube

Lidmotor

Last edited by Lidmotor : 09-26-2011 at 05:21 AM.
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  #1583 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2011, 10:28 AM
Slider2732 Slider2732 is offline
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Touch a switched on soldering iron to one of the battery connections on the "Penny'
If you put your radio nearby a Hartley or one of these type of oscillator, you'll hear it spring into life with the soldering iron trick.
I do hope you try that...perhaps just to confirm it's not just my own house with something bizarre happening.

The AAA is still going btw. That's 3 full days off 2 drops of Windex..surely it has to dry at some point. Very impressed with even galvanic actions if I can juice em back to life.

Oh, also, I had a look at some capacitors Nick, to see if any were approximate in size to store batteries.The central positive electrode would need to be extended from the can, but otherwise the dimensions can be very close indeed. Folks may well have even better matches.
I found that:
80V 6800uF is similar to a D size
10V 3300uF is similar to a AA
16V 1000uF is similar to a AAA


Last edited by Slider2732 : 09-26-2011 at 10:31 AM.
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  #1584 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2011, 12:13 PM
ibpointless2 ibpointless2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lidmotor View Post
@All
Penny has not lost any voltage so I decided to just leave her alone and build another one I just call "Penny No. 2". She has a little larger coil and runs better. While looking at the wave form of the oscillator on an O-scope I found out that this one will run (somehow) off just the scope probe if you give it a good earth ground. No battery required. Later in the day I found out that it will run off the energy coming off the base of a table lamp if I put a piece of aluminum foil under the lamp and use an AV plug going into the Penny circuit. This might be how energy is getting into the cell that is running Penny No. 1----environmental EMF in my house. I don't know but if these crystal cell are true semiconductor devices then it is plausable?

Building Penny No. 2-- and Running on thin air.ASF - YouTube

Lidmotor


I predicted earlier that the Stove cell driving Penny no.1 should go down in voltage today but not 100% sure it will. As to find out if penny is getting energy from the electromagnetic waves in your house there is many ways to find out but it may get in the way that the cell might loose power today (26th) as I've stated before in earlier post.

The first way to try is just stick the cell and penny in the microwave and and leave them over night with the door closed and microwave off(unplugged).

You could also take it out to your boat and leave it their as there is less electromagnetic waves inside a boat than your house.

T.T.Brown said that he could shield the rocks but that could take away the energy the're receiving (cosmic rays). He feared simple Faraday cages as they could stop Cosmic rays which was powering the rocks he experimented with. So the best way to test the cell to see if it works is to take it to a field where there is no power or radio waves for at least 20 miles.
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  #1585 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2011, 12:46 PM
ibpointless2 ibpointless2 is offline
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If anyone is wanting to know how to make a crystal cell that powers Lidmotors Penny oscillator here is the link to post that was created.

Bedini Earth Light



I do find it odd that the penny oscillator had less power when you were home as you should have more things running, but when you leave the house the cell gains more power but you have less things running in your house.

I'm just happy to see the Stove cell still powering the penny oscillator. You do great work Lidmotor and the penny oscillator is great. I bet you could hook the penny oscillator up to a speaker or something that collects sound and run a LED off the ambient sound waves.
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  #1586 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2011, 03:02 PM
jehdds jehdds is offline
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Guys,
Interesting find, at least for me.
Crystal cell #4 : Zn0, Epsom,Galina,Iron Pyrite,
After shorting, placed three feet away from Hairpin circuit,
Test tube vertical, glass end up with silica gel on top,
Revealed current increase, as well as voltage increase.
The effect of voltage rise continued even after circuit shut down.
Current increase was dramatic as seemingly an impossible 2.1 amp
Measuring across the cell.
The cell did NOT warm.
More test to be sure and will make
a video clip after work today.

So, the question
Is do these cells pick up X-rays?
Another test today as well.
Or do these cells pick up longitudinal standing waves?
Again, the cell was NOT connected to the hairpin.

Very Best Regards,
Jim
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Old 09-26-2011, 03:12 PM
b_rads b_rads is offline
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Penny Update

@all
For those who have not made an oscillator yet for these cells, which IMHO is a must, you cannot beat the penny circuit. My “stove top” cell is not as old as lidmotor’s is but has not skipped a beat since made and connected to this circuit. While going through several cells yesterday in order to dispose of those no longer working, I tested each cell with penny, and without exception, every cell still worked. Some of these cells are over 4 months old. Of the encased cells, the one that I considered a bust (magnesium and carbon electrodes) was the strongest performer. I have got to figure out how to make the AV plug next.

With a pair of penny loafers while dancing the Hokey Pokey, I think I would strobe like an airport runway.

@ Seth and Slider2732:
Adding moisture to your cells will rejuvenate the cells for a while. I found that adding a drop of glycerin (a hermectant) to the cell will make it continue to operate for several months. This does tend to increase the galvanic action though and will eventually consume the anode.

@jehdds:
I think you may have mentioned that the ZnO and MgSO4 were in a 50/50 mix. I think you also said you heated this mix. How much Galena and Pyrite did you contribute to the mix? Thanks

Brad S
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  #1588 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2011, 04:12 PM
szucspower2 szucspower2 is offline
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what about the temperature?

Litmotor:
Sometimes your penny goes up, then goes down, then it goes up again (in performance).

The temperature difference is always there. In the room where penny is, the temperature could go up and down and up again. And she's performance follows this changing. This was just my opinion.
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  #1589 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2011, 04:36 PM
jehdds jehdds is offline
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The mixture for the Zn0/Epsoms is less than 50/50.
More akin to 25-30% Zn0.
Trace Galina and Trace Iron Pyrite.
Just enough dusting of the primary mix in the crucible to see.
The mixture is heated in a Stainless measuring cup slowly over a gas range.
The mixture is then placed into either a
Glass or plastic container while molten.
Need to work exceptionally quick. Insertion of the Mg into the molten mixture.
The copper electrode is placed into the tube before loading.
I attempted to insert the copper into the molten material but was not entirely successful due to short working time.
I have not attempted to make one while melting in a copper cup.
My thought on this is that perhaps we need to
Have both metallic elements see this polycrystalline mix at the same temperature, so that crystal formation occurs at
the same rate. Theory only.
Very Best Regards,
Jim
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  #1590 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2011, 05:16 PM
minoly's Avatar
minoly minoly is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b_rads View Post
@all
For those who have not made an oscillator yet for these cells, which IMHO is a must, you cannot beat the penny circuit. My “stove top” cell is not as old as lidmotor’s is but has not skipped a beat since made and connected to this circuit. While going through several cells yesterday in order to dispose of those no longer working, I tested each cell with penny, and without exception, every cell still worked. Some of these cells are over 4 months old. Of the encased cells, the one that I considered a bust (magnesium and carbon electrodes) was the strongest performer. I have got to figure out how to make the AV plug next.

With a pair of penny loafers while dancing the Hokey Pokey, I think I would strobe like an airport runway.

@ Seth and Slider2732:
Adding moisture to your cells will rejuvenate the cells for a while. I found that adding a drop of glycerin (a hermectant) to the cell will make it continue to operate for several months. This does tend to increase the galvanic action though and will eventually consume the anode.

@jehdds:
I think you may have mentioned that the ZnO and MgSO4 were in a 50/50 mix. I think you also said you heated this mix. How much Galena and Pyrite did you contribute to the mix? Thanks

Brad S

I have to agree on that mod Lid is using with JB's little oscillator ckt.
we did it earlier this summer, both with the SSG and the SS SSG.
Bedini mod - trigger Cap - YouTube
this is a nice way to amplify/delay the signal to the transistor. It can do much more than just lower the amp draw.
we have been using JB's SS SSG this summer off of a small 20watt solar panel with an 8 filer coil/8 transistors. they kept heating early on... in July we added this mod - the heat was gone and we were able to add more coils to the same panel. We easily charge 1k Ah 12 volts using this small 20 watt panel.
cool stuff.

Patrick
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