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John Bedini Discussion threads relating to John Bedini. Bedini SG, Bedini SSG, Crystal Batteries, etc...

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  #1081  
Old 08-24-2011, 09:53 PM
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Bedini Earth Light/ Crystal Battery

NickZ,
Silver to Gold already pointed out that the cell that has gone over 500Ma was in the DVD in the energy series and that was a direct short, and if they cant do that I get rid of them. The Crystal Cell under direct short is over 30 Ma. Look it is easy to do providing you have the right Copper and Magnesium and the surface area.

Again I'm going to point out that the cell impedance is the limiting factor in all of this. If you would do the research you would find out that it is also possible to do a lead acid car battery with the mixes your playing with.

Solid State chemistry is much different then normal chemistry do not mix up the two. You change the Crystal structure when you apply heat in any form. If you mix Rochelle Salts with Epsom Salts and add anything else you have changed the Crystal Lattice add an impurity and you add electrons to the valance band, the point is, can you pop an electron out and have something to take the place of that and then add another one to pop out.You kill the dipole and you kill the battery unless you have the broken symmetry, open to the environment, input from Nature.

You are all limited by the impedance of the cell and you cant change that unless you change the mix completely, The Crystal cell is a Ceramic Doped Semiconductor high impedance 1 Meg Ohm, how much power can you get out of that? We are doing real good compared to most doing this research work. Design your electronics to run on it.
John B
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  #1082  
Old 08-24-2011, 10:30 PM
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All:
Yes, not only the water, but the air, as well. Most batteries are sealed now, as they last longer. But these cells may not need to breath. As some of these cells may not all have to function or work by the normal galvanic reaction principals. The perpetual output is the clue.
Normal galvanics charge and discharge. These cells don't discharge, at all. They lose their ability to maintain the output, due to several reasons. Mostly having to do with oxidation of the metals by a build up of the black oxide layer in the copper electrodes. That does not affect the carbon electrodes, but there may also be a possible contamination of the electrolyte material. That is one of the main reasons of the wet cells lessening of the voltage and current output levels over time, and not a discharging of the cells, as previously thought. As they don't discharge like a normal battery, that depends on normal galvanic reactions, but are more similar to a permanent output capacitor. And seam to work best as battery chargers, similar to a solar panel- battery array, instead of directly being drawn from.

Maintaining the integrity of the salt crystal matrix of the electrolyte which may be at the very heart of the higher current production in these salt based electrolytes, might be important. As the cells become more like crystal receiver cells, picking up juice out of thin air, through the potential difference of two different metal antenna electrodes (open system). So, when the cells are further sealed from the air, they are not seen oxidizing or breaking down, or discharging, as would happen in a normal galvanic battery system.
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  #1083  
Old 08-24-2011, 10:58 PM
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Voltage climbing under load on 2 crystal cells in series

This video shows 2 crystall cells in series and under load. The voltage increases. Also shown at the end of the video are the results of Rochelle salts That John and I had grown in the lab

~PI94B - YouTube
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  #1084  
Old 08-24-2011, 11:34 PM
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Crystal cell/ Bedini earth light update!

@ all:
Update to previous video of the 2 crystal cells in series still climbing in voltage. Now at 1.6volts and climbing under load. Lets see a normal battery do that!

By the way! 1 of the cells I built last week has been under continuos load! We just put in series with the other. Wow!


crystal cell in series still cimbing in voltage 082411.wmv - YouTube


Enjoy!
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  #1085  
Old 08-24-2011, 11:37 PM
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JB/CH, very impressive.

Question, are you doping your Rochelle crystals when your growing them? You mentioned you where doping alum with selenium when making your alum crystals. Just wondering if you're doing the same with your rochelle salts.

Thanks again for all that you are sharing, it's amazing to watch everyone's progress here.

rw
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  #1086  
Old 08-25-2011, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by seth View Post
Hi I.B!

In its crystaline form I assume you dont get a good voltage because the surface area of the crystal in contact with the electrode is so small. I saw someone with a youtube video showing that a crystal WILL show a voltage anyway...Here it is....

CRYSTAL POWER!.wmv - YouTube

0.3V directly off a (I assume at least slightly hydrated) crystal salt.

So, I believe that in spite of the water molecules being bonded into the crystal it will still be able to unattach itself if a metal electrode is near. The metal will attract the polarized water molecule. and the water molecule will react, oxidize the electrode, only to be replaced by another water molecule which comes from the atmosphere to fill the space left by its mate

Hope this makes sense!
In the video you notice he never uses two alligator clips and he pokes the crystal, thus leads us to believe that its a piezoelectric effect. I have video taking about sticking the electrodes in Epsom salt to show that the metals are not reacting to the water in the molecule. Crystal Battery doesn't use Water Molecule - YouTube

As for B-rads cells he would mix the cells then put the cell in a plastic resins. This is a great idea as it helps to keep water out and protects the cells. I know he made a few, some glue cells, and some cells he created too. If you haven't read the whole forum yet I highly recommend reading it as it has come a long way with a whole bunch of ideas coming from it.
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  #1087  
Old 08-25-2011, 12:04 AM
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Doping

@ everyidea:

No. Not yet. I am doping some Alum crytals I'm growing as a test for a later time.
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  #1088  
Old 08-25-2011, 12:20 AM
ibpointless2 ibpointless2 is offline
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Originally Posted by chuck H View Post
@ all:
Update to previous video of the 2 crystal cells in series still climbing in voltage. Now at 1.6volts and climbing under load. Lets see a normal battery do that!

By the way! 1 of the cells I built last week has been under continuos load! We just put in series with the other. Wow!


crystal cell in series still cimbing in voltage 082411.wmv - YouTube


Enjoy!

Chuck and John,

You made mention before that the crystal cell was using infrared to power it self, is this the same cell and does still work in a box with no light?
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  #1089  
Old 08-25-2011, 01:08 AM
ibpointless2 ibpointless2 is offline
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John Bedini,

Could the results from you latest video of the cell charging it self while under load be due to the oscillator you're using? Maybe a Back emf flowing to the cell causing it to ring some power in or something? Have you tried just a basic resistor instead of your oscillator?
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  #1090  
Old 08-25-2011, 01:28 AM
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Crystal cell/Bedini Earth light

@ Ibpointless and all:

The crystal cells function at night or day ( Covered or not). What I see is that radiation (infared) and barometric pressure change exacts small changes on how these cells work. These are still in the early stages of testing and development. They due cause change but that is not a major factor on how these cells work. These cells seem to work good at normal tempatures that a human would be at home in. We have not put them in the freezer or in an oven as these are not the places a human would like to be ( at least not me). As for sealing these cells from alowing moisture to penitrate, we have not done that yet as it is to early in the testing of these cells for that. We are still figuring out the doping materials that work best and are affordable/avaliable to the general public. I know there will be many questions that will not be answered as we do not have all answers at this time. If this power source can be "tuned" for longevity it will take just that. Time. Lots of testing that can't be rushed. We will post results on what we find as time goes on.

Just food for thought.
"You can't turn back time nor can time be advanced to see what happens. We have to wait for results to happen."

What I see at this point is that there is no battery conventionaly made today that can hang with these cells at this point.

What if we could take this technology and apply and or convert a typical car battery. Mabye we will try that at some point... Any way, thats how I see it all at this point.

keep expermenting! keep testing! keep posting results! I'm confident we will figure it out!
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  #1091  
Old 08-25-2011, 03:26 AM
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Bedini Earth Light/Crystal Batteries

Ibpointless2, All
I just thought that I would help with the theory of back EMF, back EMF is always lower then the source voltage. What you see coming back is the Radiant as Tesla called it, it is energy from the Vacuum of space time itself. Engineers always try to short this energy out with fly back diodes. Your going to get the same energy by stressing Crystals even in small amounts. Nobody can find any input power as the crystal is stressed under normal conditions. ( without you touching it) The heat when forming the crystal causes stress cracks that are very non-liner these non- liner cracks cause a broken symmetry or known as the "Prigogine Crystal Effect" that is how the energy is captured from space time itself, that includes everything surrounding you. This effect is found in quake lights before earthquakes. That is why you see the jitter in the charts
Prigogine system: a many-particle system which is deliberately forced to exist far from thermodynamic equilibrium, and which exhibits negative entropy. Note that local curvature of vacuum spacetime places the local virtual state flux in nonequilibrium conditions, with the result that an observable energy "sink" or "source" can be produced.
John B
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  #1092  
Old 08-25-2011, 04:21 AM
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just FYI

Global distribution of atmospheric water:



The Water Cycle: Water Storage in the Atmosphere, from USGS Water Science for Schools

and don't forget that the human body produces water vapor through your breathing and Perspiration

HUMAN BODY ON INFRARED - YouTube


where there is life, there is water...

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  #1093  
Old 08-25-2011, 07:07 AM
John_K John_K is offline
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John B,

Excellent information. So that is why we can for example measure a piece of Iron Pyrite and see a voltage and even get usable energy from a crystal.

Nature created this when the crystal was formed, millions of years ago.

Are you saying that the energy is within the crystal, or the crystal is absorbing the IR?


John K.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Bedini View Post
Ibpointless2, All
I just thought that I would help with the theory of back EMF, back EMF is always lower then the source voltage. What you see coming back is the Radiant as Tesla called it, it is energy from the Vacuum of space time itself. Engineers always try to short this energy out with fly back diodes. Your going to get the same energy by stressing Crystals even in small amounts. Nobody can find any input power as the crystal is stressed under normal conditions. ( without you touching it) The heat when forming the crystal causes stress cracks that are very non-liner these non- liner cracks cause a broken symmetry or known as the "Prigogine Crystal Effect" that is how the energy is captured from space time itself, that includes everything surrounding you. This effect is found in quake lights before earthquakes. That is why you see the jitter in the charts
Prigogine system: a many-particle system which is deliberately forced to exist far from thermodynamic equilibrium, and which exhibits negative entropy. Note that local curvature of vacuum spacetime places the local virtual state flux in nonequilibrium conditions, with the result that an observable energy "sink" or "source" can be produced.
John B
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  #1094  
Old 08-25-2011, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Bedini View Post
Solid State chemistry is much different then normal chemistry do not mix up the two. You change the Crystal structure when you apply heat in any form.


Hi John!

Sure, heat changes the crystalline structure. The following happens to the Epsom salts:

MgSO4.7H2O ------>MgSO4.

But this reaction is REVERSIBILE, and dependent on temperature. As such, the opposite WILL DEFINITELY HAPPEN (and is happening in any cell exposed to the air which contains epsom salts) when the mixture is cooled:

MgSO4 ---------> MgSO4.7H2O

In other words, we change the crystalline structure when we heat it (we remove the water) but the crystalline structure also changes when it is left to cool on a bench (it absorbs water). This is why anhydrous MgSO4 is used as a drying agent. Check wiki. It absorbs water faster and to a greater degree than many other salts.

So, Im afraid that I have to respectfully disagree. I know very little about free energy ang I know your experience in this field is vast, but I cant agree that your cell is dry. On cooling, it absorbs moisture. This is basic chemistry and I see no reason to disregard it.
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  #1095  
Old 08-25-2011, 10:57 AM
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Sorting through the different molecular arrangements. The degree of moisture and temperature a crystal needs to give usefulness at room temperature is a delicate balance.
The arangement of molecules in a solid state crystal have a regular repeating pattern in whichever axis you find alignment.

There are "cloudy liquids" that have a lazy arrangement the viscosity is high and can remain a soup that is unwilling to form into solid state at room temperature. This may have too much water absorbing property at room temperature. Sometimes these crystals look more like shaved ice.

There are solvents where the pattern is random. In saturated solutions Forming crystals where good soup arrangement at a temperature significantly higher than room temperature so that when cooled to room temperature there is enough solid state and useful alignment to react to natural radiance s. ( some use magnetic field )

Designing circuits around natural radiance may have future benefits.
Industry rather have you buy a reel of each in a smd 605 package.

There is one other type of molecular arrangement that is glass a supercooled liquid.

Summary:
crystalline solids: molecules are ordered in a regular lattice
fluids: molecules are disordered and are not rigidly bound.
glasses: molecules are disordered but are rigidly bound.

If you try to grow solid state crystals that have the all the characteristics that are useful, all the properties and techniques become apparent.
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  #1096  
Old 08-25-2011, 01:46 PM
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-165f

Ok, back from the lab...

took one of our copper end-cap cells that put out 1volt.
placed it in the fridge for 1 hour,
placed it in a 0 F freezer for 1 hour - then..
liquid nitrogen...
dropped it down to -165F, yes that's 165 below zero F.
the voltage did drop...
to .841 volts...
it still lit our LED's and our neon's while sitting in the LN
the nitrogen did not enter the cap, but perhaps someone will come up with another explanation - hopefully other than super cool.

Patrick
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  #1097  
Old 08-25-2011, 02:11 PM
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Guys:
I realize that most cells are working due to a galvanic reaction, but, there are other things going on here. Other "reactions", also. Possibly several processes are going on at the same time.
What I notice, that makes me think, is that when I hold a carbon water filter element wound with a bit of galvanized iron wire on it, and connect an led directly to the positive side or pole of the cell, and connect a copper wire about a foot long off of the negative side of the same led bulb, the led lights up, about 1/2 brightness, especially if I hold the end of the negative wire. And,if I put the end of that foot long copper wire in my mouth the led gets brighter, if I lift by bare feet off of the ceramic tile floor, the led gets dimmer, almost goes out. A single cell is not strong enough to light an led by itself, as they only output about a volt, or so, but when the circuit is open, even when I'm not touching it, it can light a red led, although dimly. The point being that the cell may be working as an antenna also, even without being part of a tuned circuit, or being connected to a Jt or oscillator circuit. So, it not just Bemf, as in this case there are no components.
The above is true with the cement cells also, as well as the glue cells, and possibly all cells that use two dissimilar metals and an electrolyte. The reason we don't notice it is because the effect is tiny. But may work similar to how a radio wave can be amplified in gain, by an efficient antenna array, even before it gets to the amplifier.
My point being that I feel that the cells are also acting as antennas picking up and converting energy from their surroundings, and turning it into usable power.
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  #1098  
Old 08-25-2011, 04:48 PM
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@ minoly

In water, a polar molecule, the hydrogen atom's electrons are pulled away from the hydrogen atom slightly, exposing its positive proton. The water molecule shows a positive charge on the hydrogen side and, negative charge on the oxygen side. The positive charges on one water molecule attract negative charges on neighboring water molecules, causing them to line up in distinct patterns. As water freezes, these patterns lock together in the crystal shapes of ice. Non-polar molecules do not have these mutual attractions.

SEMICLASSICAL THEORY OF PROTON TRANSPORT IN ICE - Canadian Journal of Physics
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  #1099  
Old 08-25-2011, 06:33 PM
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Ok

Quote:
Originally Posted by seth View Post
Hi John!

Sure, heat changes the crystalline structure. The following happens to the Epsom salts:

MgSO4.7H2O ------>MgSO4.

But this reaction is REVERSIBILE, and dependent on temperature. As such, the opposite WILL DEFINITELY HAPPEN (and is happening in any cell exposed to the air which contains epsom salts) when the mixture is cooled:

MgSO4 ---------> MgSO4.7H2O

In other words, we change the crystalline structure when we heat it (we remove the water) but the crystalline structure also changes when it is left to cool on a bench (it absorbs water). This is why anhydrous MgSO4 is used as a drying agent. Check wiki. It absorbs water faster and to a greater degree than many other salts.

So, Im afraid that I have to respectfully disagree. I know very little about free energy ang I know your experience in this field is vast, but I cant agree that your cell is dry. On cooling, it absorbs moisture. This is basic chemistry and I see no reason to disregard it.
Seth,
OK, But I said where the energy is.
John B
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  #1100  
Old 08-25-2011, 06:59 PM
seth seth is offline
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Originally Posted by John_Bedini View Post
Seth,
OK, But I said where the energy is.
John B
Fair enough John

I cant decide if its galvanic or not, but its certainly possible, because water is certainly present.

Mine is still running well - i've taken your advice and tried to get good quality Mg and Cu to attempt another cell with different geometry and large surface area. I want a homemade 500mA battery !!!!

Good luck in your experiments, and keep the videos coming.
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  #1101  
Old 08-25-2011, 09:15 PM
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Bedini Earth Light/ Crystal Cell

Seth,
You might want to look at this far different then what the normal Text says.
I have not found the Epsom Salts in this cell gathering any moisture or I could detect it through the resistance of the cell. My mix is far different then when started with the John H cell. I also found that when the cell has moisture the voltage is much lower .400 to .850 Volts.

I just can not recommend unsafe chemicals to the group. These cells have been running for days now and only have been gaining voltage and current. I will seal them but you will not find any difference as I could do this in a ceramic also with no change. but I guess we agree to disagree.
John B
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  #1102  
Old 08-25-2011, 10:05 PM
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Bedini earth Light Crystal Load Tests

In this video I explain the change in the chart. Moving from the power oscillator to a resistive load. These cells continue to climb in voltage under restive load. and I'm adding moisture to the air to detect the change if any. I show on the chart that batteries were disconnected and they just go right into recovery and then I adjust the load for the same current with a restive load. This mixture is far different then the John H cells.
Youtube Here
Crystal Cells XTwo in Series Restive Load - YouTube
John B









Crystal Cells XTwo in Series Restive Load - YouTube
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  #1103  
Old 08-25-2011, 10:18 PM
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It's the anomalies of these cells that make them different from the galvanic systems. We need to look for the reasons that they are different so we can improve on that, but to do that we need to know the hows and whys of the effect.
I feel that there are some similarities with what happens in Dr. Stifflers 3 coil system, where somehow these cells can act like an antenna, and pick up the surrounding energy, separating the charges to a usable form.
Has anyone else noticed that a single cell with no other circuit connected to it, using only one wire (open circuit) can light a red led?
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  #1104  
Old 08-25-2011, 11:20 PM
seth seth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Bedini View Post
Seth,
You might want to look at this far different then what the normal Text says.
I have not found the Epsom Salts in this cell gathering any moisture or I could detect it through the resistance of the cell. My mix is far different then when started with the John H cell. I also found that when the cell has moisture the voltage is much lower .400 to .850 Volts.

I just can not recommend unsafe chemicals to the group. These cells have been running for days now and only have been gaining voltage and current. I will seal them but you will not find any difference as I could do this in a ceramic also with no change. but I guess we agree to disagree.
John B
I appreciate the advice John - perhaps I should try and look at this a little less conventionally. If anything, Im just trying to understand what the text books and mainstream theorists would say about it. The fact that the anhydrous form of epsom salt is sold as a drying agent leaves little doubt that in its conventional form it absorbs moisture. But perhaps the crystal in these proportions and with the doping added doesnt absorb moisture well.

I wish I had a simple vacuum desicator to test these batteries. If they still pump out the same milliamps under those conditions for extended periods, I think the mainstream galvanic explanation looks a little more shaky. Has anyone got one of those big jars which use a tap to suck the air out? Surely thats worth a test?
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Old 08-25-2011, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seth View Post
Fair enough John

I cant decide if its galvanic or not, but its certainly possible, because water is certainly present.

Mine is still running well - i've taken your advice and tried to get good quality Mg and Cu to attempt another cell with different geometry and large surface area. I want a homemade 500mA battery !!!!

Good luck in your experiments, and keep the videos coming.

ANTENNA MINIATURIZATION USING FRACTAL ANTENNA AND ITS DESIGN


Quote:
Fractal, which means broken or irregular fragments. Fractal antennas can obtain radiation
pattern and input impedance similar to a longer antenna, but take less area due to the many
contours of the shape Fractus
is a global developer and supplier of low profile multi-band mobile
phone antennas for current and next generation mobile handsets. it uses a self similar design to
maximize the length, or increase the perimeter of material
that can transmit or receive EM
radiation with a given total surface area or volume.
http://www.ijecbs.com/July2011/11.pdf

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Old 08-26-2011, 01:51 AM
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back emf and source voltage..

@John B.,

You stated that back EMF is never higher than source voltage. I just want to clarify this statement, since the joule thief circuit (among others) produces much higher output voltage than input and I think that's due to back EMF. I would love your clarification on the issue for my understanding.

Thanks!
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Old 08-26-2011, 02:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skaght View Post
@John B.,

You stated that back EMF is never higher than source voltage. I just want to clarify this statement, since the joule thief circuit (among others) produces much higher output voltage than input and I think that's due to back EMF. I would love your clarification on the issue for my understanding.

Thanks!
Not to jump in, but John has mentioned several times in many places.

here is what wiki states:
Counter-electromotive force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
back emf = counter emf - therefore can not be higher in voltage than source.
This is very important semantics, which some how the patent offices care to manipulate.
let me know if I state incorrectly.

Patrick
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Old 08-26-2011, 03:26 AM
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Soda ash

@ J.B
Have 10 pounds. Will bring in tomorrow...
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Old 08-26-2011, 04:11 AM
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Back EMF Misused Buzzwords for control

Skaght,

Not to shake up the apple cart here. Back EMF is a misunderstood term in physics. Back EMF is the force that the circuit must fight so it stands to reason that it must loose energy just as the Joule Thief circuit does.

The Joule Thief sucks every Joule left out of the battery and returns nothing (Thus the name). On the other hand if the loop was open which it is not because of the core being closed looped you could gain energy and transport it to another battery which the Joule Thief does not do very good.

Why does it work because it can trigger below .7 volts. If you open the system such as the SG oscillator circuit you can run much longer in time, as is running now on the Crystal Batteries and still light the Led, you could also charge another battery ( two separate loops that do not fight).

Again, Back EMF is always lower then the applied input voltage and what is lighting your LED is the Radiant energy just as Tesla said in fast switching, but the right switch. The spike all engineers try to damp out as it destroys circuit components.

You can learn about Radiant Energy and how the circuits trigger it out of the system. The Spike is so fast you can not protect the circuit.

I might also point out that current in the system destroys the Radiant Effect as it builds up, as it is lagging in the system. The Current then builds and the free is gone, closed system under-unity, Standard Textbook theory.

Please go back and read what happened in the first DC power plants when the workers closed the switch in the Edison plants, find out why they were killed, and how Back EMF had nothing to do with it.

Tesla coined the term Radiant Energy from the vacuum, negative energy and so on. Another thing when the coil or transformer as you wish, discharges it must fight is own resistance and that is the Back EMF and so on, not the spike as it free from the current. Tesla then discovers, Radiant is really a Gaseous State, The Anther

Back EMF Misused Buzzwords for control.

You are correct Patrick could not have been put better.
John B
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Old 08-26-2011, 04:27 AM
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John_Bedini John_Bedini is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hayden Lake, ID, USA
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Bedini Earth Lights / Crystal Cells

Chuck,
Good, we will grow them in a Static Magnetic Field we want them orientated not all over the place. Some of these crystals have a real good charge on them.
John B
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