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John Bedini Discussion threads relating to John Bedini. Bedini SG, Bedini SSG, Crystal Batteries, etc...

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  #31  
Old 02-05-2011, 04:45 PM
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Earth Light

Freezer, I'm Going to post everything I find out about this cell on some pages you can go to as soon as I have some free time. if lidmotor wants to post the diagram it's ok with me.I'm out of space here on the group. If Lasersaber would join in on this discussion it would be very helpful as we build these circuits as he has been running little motors for days with these type devices. I'm not here to disprove anything he did but to find out what the failures are going to be with different materials.
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  #32  
Old 02-06-2011, 01:46 AM
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Sorry for asking

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Originally Posted by John_Bedini View Post
Sorry off subject of Joules for a moment....
John K,
Some very Interesting things have happened to the rock battery, Transmutation has taken place with the magnesium, the magnesium will no longer burn, as it is not magnesium it looks like it.

The funny thing I think it's now silver as it seem to reacts the same way. What ever was in the Pyrite has now changed the magnesium, it's a soft material like gold or silver not lead. The rock is no longer Pyrite either, the Pyrite has a silver luster to it and no longer works as Iron pyrite.

Tom Bearden has said this before and I have done the experiments on minerals to prove that. It's that little spike that science refuses to look at. I have seen this happen in batteries when they had clear cases you could see the plates change and watch the plating take place. Hell your whole nervous system works on that little spike before the energy in EM appears.This is a real head scratchier. And Iron Pyrite is a mysterious rock. More experiments to find out what it is.
John B
Sorry for asking, I know you are very busy John, any idea yet as to what the
magnesium turned into ? Any updates would be appreciated. Thanks

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Old 02-06-2011, 03:16 AM
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FRC,
I have sent it off to Ron Case to see what happened to it. it will probably get to him by Wednesday. Something very inserting Chuck and
I were able to get some of it to burn, but it took allot of heat to do it.

The other thing that I'm seeing is a build up of what looks like calcium, just from the water supply here. when using just distilled water nothing happens.

The other experiment is just placing magnesium in water causes it's own galvanic action, air is far worse when it starts to oxidize and turns white. The only failures I had were reed switches they just wear out from fatigue. So what I found out no matter what metal you use it will eventually destroy itself in any condition.

I also found that to work with currents this small the circuits must be very efficient. I have an Amplifier circuit that works good with the earth cells, so you can power things like radios or play music, I will youtube that when I'm done. My ground is frozen here so I cant test to see what happens in the ground yet, but I will soon. I will report everything I do for test here.
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Old 02-06-2011, 03:17 AM
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FRC,
I have sent it off to Ron Case to see what happened to it. it will probably get to him by Wednesday. Something very intresting Chuck and
I were able to get some of it to burn, but it took allot of heat to do it.

The other thing that I'm seeing is a build up of what looks like calcium, just from the water supply here. when using just distilled water nothing happens.

The other experiment is just placing magnesium in water causes it's own galvanic action, air is far worse when it starts to oxidize and turns white. The only failures I had were reed switches they just wear out from fatigue. So what I found out no matter what metal you use it will eventually destroy itself in any condition.

I also found that to work with currents this small the circuits must be very efficient. I have an Amplifier circuit that works good with the earth cells, so you can power things like radios or play music, I will youtube that when I'm done. My ground is frozen here so I can't test to see what happens in the ground yet, but I will soon. I will report everything I do for test here. Oh forgot to say I have one in a pot out back the light is still going day and night.

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Old 02-06-2011, 03:35 AM
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Freezer, I'm Going to post everything I find out about this cell on some pages you can go to as soon as I have some free time. if lidmotor wants to post the diagram it's ok with me.I'm out of space here on the group. If Lasersaber would join in on this discussion it would be very helpful as we build these circuits as he has been running little motors for days with these type devices. I'm not here to disprove anything he did but to find out what the failures are going to be with different materials.
John B
Thanks, much appreciated. Would make a great garden light if we could stick these cells in the ground, and not have the regular galvanic decay.
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Old 02-06-2011, 06:19 AM
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Thanks John

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FRC,
The only failures I had were reed switches they just wear out from fatigue. So what I found out no matter what metal you use it will eventually destroy itself in any condition. John B
Thanks John, About reed switches, everyone complains about them wearing out.
Could there be some way that a mercury switch could be used instead ? Tilting
it or something. Matthew Jones used automotive points for his "Simple motor" .
They seemed to work well except for the sparking.There must be a better way !

George
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Old 02-06-2011, 06:31 AM
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Points are metal too.... LOL.

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Old 02-06-2011, 09:15 AM
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Thanks, much appreciated. Would make a great garden light if we could stick these cells in the ground, and not have the regular galvanic decay.
Hi Freezer, I agree, i have almost finished a kind of a long term earth battery just ouside the hut, I haven't filled the hole's in yet and already I get .98 volts. It's just a test setup to try some things. I might try some magnesium sulfate solution around the battery pole's and between them, later on if necessary. For a garden light it would be nice to simplify it down to a twin stake setup and circuit. Just push into the ground and hey presto, light.

I'm going to try building Johns light circuit tonight and try it even before i've finshed the battery. With the reflector setup from an old garden light maybe some good lighting can be had. Thanks for the circuit John.

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Old 02-06-2011, 04:40 PM
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If you have a moment take a look at Magnesium molecule :
page 7 of this book is an illustration of unalloyed magnesium, it is hexagon shaped,
Magnesium and magnesium alloys - Google Books
The Carbon /Mg fuel cell (battery) is working. If there is any chance to have a real maintenance free battery that would be worth the effort. It does not have to compete with anything as it is a concept model. There should be a work around for the squeeze but it does'nt appear to be that big a deal I thought at first I might get a carbon hand print but its just water.
I share a passion for fuel cells as do most here. If we focus only at the cell as having a membrane or electron transport mechanism we may fail to see that H2 itself can be the cathode or that the Carbon was not consumed and just regular water was used and the LED lit nicely. It works ! A replica of the earth light will give more information why it keeps running and how that can help future Carbon/Mg fuel cell builders .
Look forward to see more earth lights.
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Old 02-06-2011, 06:35 PM
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vacuum tube

J.BThe other thing that I'm seeing is a build up of what looks like calcium, just from the water supply here. when using just distilled water nothing happens.

Just wondering if enclosing cell in vacuum would slow down deterioration process but not affect operation? Any mineral particles/deposits in the water will cause galvanic reaction and destroy magnesium by creating salts. Purity of water seems to be important. I did replicate John experiment, able to spin rotor with slightly over 0.4V at 5mA. I have only 3 neos. Waiting for other supplies. I found large 6"x6"x1 - 2" thick carbon/graphite blocks. Wonder if drilling holes and multiple magnesium rods could perform better?
This is very interesting thread. Unable to work on it while over the road but reading and watching. Also, I found this page - Mineral Gallery - the Silicate Class. I hope it may be useful.


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Old 02-06-2011, 08:28 PM
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magnesium and oxygen atom

I would guess that magnesium reacts with water creating what use to be called "magnesia alba" or magnesium oxide. (MgO + H2O → Mg(OH)2). this is reversible process (heat). There maybe additional compounds from minerals in the water or air. Curious if there will be difference between de ionized and de mineralized distilled water?


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Old 02-06-2011, 09:03 PM
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It seems that you’re going to have a galvanic reaction no matter if you use salt water or plain water; the galvanic reaction has to do with the two dissimilar metals. So how would you go about stopping the galvanic reaction? Use similar metals. Galvanic corrosion can only happen when you have two dissimilar metals, so using the same metal will eliminate the galvanic reaction.

I’ve have played with the idea of a similar metal “earth cell / water battery” and they do work. They get their power very differently than a normal cell that uses the galvanic reaction. They seem to be very dependent of temperature, collecting the radiant heat energy with hotter temps giving higher power. They also seem to take a load and shorting out very well. If anyone is interested in exploring a “water battery” that isn’t really affected by galvanic corrosion then I’ll post some video links below for you to check out.

I see plenty of similarities of my “water battery” which I called the water captret battery and bedini’s earth cell. Bedini shows us in one of his videos that he could squeeze the “coil” and it would bring the cell back to life by releasing the gas that’s trapped. I see the very same thing with my water captrets, The plates would become enlarged (inflated) with gas that would not get released; but squeezing the plates brought them to a higher voltage. Also using hot water would also give better voltage too. Mine are not batteries either, i fill like they're capacitors because of the way they use heat to make electricity. I've made a video of what i'm talking about when it comes to capacitors collecting heat to get a gain in voltage here YouTube - Capacitors are Heat and Piezo energy collectors


And here are some of work with the water captret battery aka similar metal water battery.

YouTube - How to make a Water Captret Battery.MP4
YouTube - Water Captret increase power over time when given a load
YouTube - Water Captret can be hooked in series


I saw some colorations between my work and Bedini's and thought i could share what learn so far.
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Old 02-07-2011, 06:35 PM
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Ibpointless2
Sorry for not answering right away but I was consumed in some other work on these cells.

I think I have found the answer to the magnesium and the carbon. Your cell, I have noticed the same thing you have about two different size metals of the same type.

When you use the same metal and you have a size difference you form a gradient between the two pieces of metal that is in potential charge. Have you tried two pieces of copper, or two different size carbon rods? Good work.
John B
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Old 02-07-2011, 07:19 PM
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Ibpointless2
Sorry for not answering right away but I was consumed in some other work on these cells.

I think I have found the answer to the magnesium and the carbon. Your cell, I have noticed the same thing you have about two different size metals of the same type.

When you use the same metal and you have a size difference you form a gradient between the two pieces of metal that is in potential charge. Have you tried two pieces of copper, or two different size carbon rods? Good work.
John B

Yes most, but not all metals work such as copper and bronze. A normal cell at room temp will be around 100mV, but when i use boiling hot water i get close to 500mV. So i'm seeing radiant temperature of the water or plates will increase the voltage and plate size increases amps. I was also surprised when in your video you talked about gas being trapped and squeezing the cell brought more power out of it. I see the same thing with my cells, at first i thought it just water and the capillary action, but squeezing the plate only gas came out.

The two carbon rods sounds like a good idea but i have not tried it. Its been awhile but if i do remember right not all metals will work, i think zinc didn't work at all. But the metals that do work do amazing job, I leave the cells shorted out much like a electret because if you don't they seem to get weaker. My biggest problems now has to do with nature. I can't stop evaporating water and any metal left in the environment will sooner or later decay. Tap water may not be the best either, i see what looks like calcium build up on the cups.

I look forward to your next video about the cells. Keep up the good work!
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Old 02-07-2011, 07:28 PM
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Ibpointless2, What kind of current are you seeing with the water cell? The voltage could be dealt with but the current would be important for powering small items.
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Old 02-07-2011, 07:43 PM
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Ibpointless2, What kind of current are you seeing with the water cell? The voltage could be dealt with but the current would be important for powering small items.

The current comes from the size of the plates, but the current is small (below a mili-amp) But just like a battery they can be put in parallel to get a higher amps. Also radiant temperatures will also affect it too, so your cells power will be different than mine unless we use them in the same temps.

The important thing is that this should not happen because no galvanic reaction can occur with similar metals and thus no electricity. Since it is happening is something to study and the fact that they share many characteristics as Bedini earth cells. They're also strong enough to charge a capacitor, or even a super capacitor too.
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Old 02-07-2011, 08:17 PM
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I just did a quick experiment with 2 graphite plates, one was 3" x 3" and the other was 1" x 3". I was getting .04 volts at .05ma. The voltage was really low but present. If the voltage potential between the two are based on the difference of area ( one large one small ) and the current based on total area it would take a fairly large cell to produce a volt at 1ma.

Next test.. I'm going to dig up a couple aluminum pans, one large one filled with water and one smaller one floating to see if I can come up with a comparison to size for voltage potentials and/or current increases.... if it works...

Edit: The pie pans showed a little more voltage but the current was non existent - nothing my meter would read set on 2m. The graphite plate ( 3x3 ) with stand offs and submerged produced .5 volt at .08ma between the pan and graphite. Interesting stuff....

If the magnesium and graphite is forming a thermocouple and we could control the galvanic action to increase longevity that would be the ticket. I have a small graphite rod ( 1" diameter and 4" long ) which lasted 4 days but eventually it created breaks in the magnesium and wouldn't work. ( Just water - no salt or other solution ). It ran bright right up to failure.
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Old 02-07-2011, 08:39 PM
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I just did a quick experiment with 2 graphite plates, one was 3" x 3" and the other was 1" x 3". I was getting .04 volts at .05ma. The voltage was really low but present. If the voltage potential between the two are based on the difference of area ( one large one small ) and the current based on total area it would take a fairly large cell to produce a volt at 1ma.

Next test.. I'm going to dig up a couple aluminum pans, one large one filled with water and one smaller one floating to see if I can come up with a comparison to size for voltage potentials and/or current increases.... if it works...

Edit: The pie pans showed a little more voltage but the current was non existent - nothing my meter would read set on 2m. The graphite plate ( 3x3 ) with stand offs and submerged produced .5 volt at .08ma between the pan and graphite. Interesting stuff....

If the magnesium and graphite is forming a thermocouple and we could control the galvanic action to increase longevity that would be the ticket. I have a small graphite rod ( 1" diameter and 4" long ) which lasted 4 days but eventually it created breaks in the magnesium and wouldn't work. ( Just water - no salt or other solution ). It ran bright right up to failure.

The graphite experiment sounds interesting indeed. The aluminum can be tricky, i’ve filled a bath tub up with water and used a 4 foot roll of aluminum foil and that gave me the same voltage as my smaller designs. To get more voltage out of the aluminum plates you need to increase the heat of the water, try boiling water.

Where do you get your graphite rods?
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Old 02-07-2011, 11:16 PM
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Using hot water seems to be self defeating, the energy you put into the water far exceeds anything you might get out. However, if you could use the evaporation of water to create a temperature difference to boost output there may be some promise there.

I purchased a huge chunk of graphite a long time ago on ebay to make pistons for small stirling engines. I cut a thin slab from it to do the experiment.
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Old 02-08-2011, 12:56 AM
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NVM, offtopic.
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Old 02-08-2011, 01:54 AM
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Continuing on the graphite slab to see if there was anything out of the ordinary and to determine if there was a thermocoupling effect I put a steel sheet over the graphite with a dry tissue between them. Measuring the voltage I read .190. Not a lot but interesting - humidity in the house is around 24% so there isn't much moisture in the tissue. Heating the graphite with a lighter the voltage dropped like a rock. The voltage slowly returned as it cooled. Heating the steel the voltage went up to around .29. Using an ice cube tray on the graphite side the voltage rose to over .4 volts. Current remained very low through all the tests but did show the current would rise and lower with various temperature changes.

My graphite/magnesium cell ran very cold which is most likely caused by the fast evaporation in a low humidity area. But it does show there is a thermal action taking place that may be enhancing the cell. The colder you get the graphite the better the output. Quite interesting....
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Old 02-08-2011, 02:49 PM
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Continuing on the graphite slab to see if there was anything out of the ordinary and to determine if there was a thermocoupling effect I put a steel sheet over the graphite with a dry tissue between them. Measuring the voltage I read .190. Not a lot but interesting - humidity in the house is around 24% so there isn't much moisture in the tissue. Heating the graphite with a lighter the voltage dropped like a rock. The voltage slowly returned as it cooled. Heating the steel the voltage went up to around .29. Using an ice cube tray on the graphite side the voltage rose to over .4 volts. Current remained very low through all the tests but did show the current would rise and lower with various temperature changes.

My graphite/magnesium cell ran very cold which is most likely caused by the fast evaporation in a low humidity area. But it does show there is a thermal action taking place that may be enhancing the cell. The colder you get the graphite the better the output. Quite interesting....

That is very interesting indeed. It also shows that different metals are affected by different heat. Your graphite will increase in voltage with cold and my aluminum plates will increase in voltage when heat is applied. Does using graphite only instead of steel also work?

Are you using tap water or distilled water?
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Old 02-08-2011, 04:44 PM
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Unfortunately, I was using tap water and the magnesium eventually failed. I plan to wind another one on the same core and use distilled water in the next experiment.

I had 2 of them side by side as a test of longivity - one with tap water and one with salt water solution. They both ran 4 days although the salted one started loosing power on the third day and looked pretty bad - on the 4th day it was barely lighting the LED where the water cell was very bright right up to failure. It still looked reasonably well on the outside, very corroded on the inside.

The next one will be with distilled water to make a comparison.

A while back I experimented with 1 inch lengths of magnesium strip with a sheet steel cut to a width of slightly wider than the magnesium and about 1.5 inches long. Bent the metal in half and covered the mag strip with a paper towel. These would run a Basic JT circuit for 17 hours before failure. At a cost of a penny a piece. Great for quickie power supplies. Most of them would do 5-15 ma in water or up to 50ma in salt solutions. Below is a pic of how small they are...
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Old 02-09-2011, 09:43 PM
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Freezer, I'm Going to post everything I find out about this cell on some pages you can go to as soon as I have some free time. if lidmotor wants to post the diagram it's ok with me.I'm out of space here on the group. If Lasersaber would join in on this discussion it would be very helpful as we build these circuits as he has been running little motors for days with these type devices. I'm not here to disprove anything he did but to find out what the failures are going to be with different materials.
John B
John B,
Lid must be busy now. I haven't seen him post or put up a youtube in a while. email it to me and I'll post it. my email is the same as my youtube is the same as my yahoo.
min2oly@yahoo.com

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Old 02-10-2011, 03:10 AM
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Earth Lights

I will be posting more tonight, just must wait for youtube to load.
I guess we all get busy from time to time.
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Old 02-10-2011, 04:00 AM
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Earth Lights 5

Earth Lights 5
YouTube - Earth Lights 5
In this video I show how to hookup a second transistor in the base circuit to shut off the earth light during the day. Also I will show you a simple earth cell and what I found to use to enhance power level of these cells.

What I found can be bought in a grocery store in the spice section, it's called Alum. You only need a little bit added to water and it does not seem to eat the magnesium away. You might try this for the aluminum cell and see what happens to the voltage and current.
Alum Alum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you really think about all this it does not take much current to run these lights and you will find all kinds of thing that will work. AM radio chips, Low power Amplifiers. You can even listen to the earth waves as they do produce a sound of it's own once you filter the AC from the power company out.
I cant go into what else you can hear you must explore that for yourself.

Something you might read and it works. Sepp Hasslberger: How to convert a Lead Acid Battery into an Alkaline Battery

John B
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Old 02-10-2011, 04:33 AM
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Earth Lights 5
YouTube - Earth Lights 5
In this video I show how to hookup a second transistor in the base circuit to shut off the earth light during the day. Also I will show you a simple earth cell and what I found to use to enhance power level of these cells.

What I found can be bought in a grocery store in the spice section, it's called Alum. You only need a little bit added to water and it does not seem to eat the magnesium away. You might try this for the aluminum cell and see what happens to the voltage and current.
Alum Alum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you really think about all this it does not take much current to run these lights and you will find all kinds of thing that will work. AM radio chips, Low power Amplifiers. You can even listen to the earth waves as they do produce a sound of it's own once you filter the AC from the power company out.
I cant go into what else you can hear you must explore that for yourself.

Something you might read and it works. Sepp Hasslberger: How to convert a Lead Acid Battery into an Alkaline Battery

John B
Thanks for the video John, I'm sure this will inspire good things.. Listening to the ground waves sounds intruiging..I guessing Stubblefield probably did the same.
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Old 02-10-2011, 02:51 PM
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Earth Lights 5
YouTube - Earth Lights 5
In this video I show how to hookup a second transistor in the base circuit to shut off the earth light during the day. Also I will show you a simple earth cell and what I found to use to enhance power level of these cells.

What I found can be bought in a grocery store in the spice section, it's called Alum. You only need a little bit added to water and it does not seem to eat the magnesium away. You might try this for the aluminum cell and see what happens to the voltage and current.
Alum Alum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you really think about all this it does not take much current to run these lights and you will find all kinds of thing that will work. AM radio chips, Low power Amplifiers. You can even listen to the earth waves as they do produce a sound of it's own once you filter the AC from the power company out.
I cant go into what else you can hear you must explore that for yourself.

Something you might read and it works. Sepp Hasslberger: How to convert a Lead Acid Battery into an Alkaline Battery

John B
John B. one of my early introductions to your work was a video of you converting a battery to alum. it was a long while back and it may still be on google video's somewhere. But you had incredible success with it. I beleive it was rick that you were showing it to at the time. I always wondered why you didn't pursure it further.
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Old 02-10-2011, 03:36 PM
john_g john_g is offline
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Hi All
Well I'm really impressed with this 'battery'. I have an approx 12" x 1/2" carbon welding rod that came in a clear plastic container with end caps. Wrapped rods with 2 layers of fine silk (like wedding dresses are made of) and wrapped with magnesium. Drilled hole at one end and soldered in a copper wire. All wetted and back in packaging. Getting 1.3V and 125ma. Well good. Just need to build circuit.

Thanks John B
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/2589...8-pm-437k?da=y
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/2589...9-pm-375k?da=y
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/2589...9-pm-348k?da=y



Regards
John
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Old 02-10-2011, 09:32 PM
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Lidmotor Lidmotor is offline
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New circuit and Alum shopping

@John B.
Thanks for the video with the complete circuit. I hesitated posting the one that I made for fear that it was incorrect. It is the same as yours except for the auto on/off solar cell part with the extra transistor. When I made my coil I used a small hollow plastic tube for the form. I didn't have the welding rod so I used a piece of wire coat hanger as the solid core and made the bifilar coil tunable by moving that piece in and out.
This whole project is facinating because of all the twists and turns it is taking.

I am heading out now to get some Alum. I really hope that this will slow down the Mg consumption. I did find Mg rods a little cheaper. They use them in RV water heaters to stop corrosion. The cheapest that I could find them was about $10 for a 1/2" X 9". There is a brass end fitting and a wire that runs down the inside of the casting.

Suburban Water Heater Anode Rod Magnesium 2 PK #232767 - eBay (item 130467164847 end time Feb-17-11 00:02:48 PST)

Cheer,

Lidmotor
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Last edited by Lidmotor; 02-10-2011 at 09:38 PM.
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