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John Bedini Discussion threads relating to John Bedini. Bedini SG, Bedini SSG, Crystal Batteries, etc...

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  #361  
Old 03-02-2011, 06:23 AM
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Copper sulfate is a poison

Vtech,
It looks like it's working. Be careful as Copper sulfate is a poison so wash your hands keep well ventilated when boiling it. I kept the back door open
Oh one other thing the brown reddish is copper oxide you might want to keep that as an oxide of copper.
JB
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Last edited by John_Bedini; 03-02-2011 at 06:28 AM. Reason: Adding info
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  #362  
Old 03-02-2011, 06:31 AM
mikrovolt mikrovolt is offline
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we will be seeing nice cells !

Ammonium aluminum sulphate, how it is made ch 7.1 page 439
Aluminum Sulfate and Alums

you probably have the right stuff when you read it is food quality for pickling.
Food Grade Alum

other chemicals can be found here:
Axner Pottery Supply - Raw Materials
Chemicals
Bailey Ceramic Supply - Clay - Dry Clays and Chemicals
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  #363  
Old 03-02-2011, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Bedini View Post
Vtech,
It looks like it's working. Be careful as Copper sulfate is a poison so wash your hands keep well ventilated when boiling it. I kept the back door open
Oh one other thing the brown reddish is copper oxide you might want to keep that as an oxide of copper.
JB
Thanks John Yes, I use to have a lab at home (beside electronic lab) since my father was a chemist and inventor. Long time ago but I still remember as he cautioned me about chemicals. I keep cleaning negative electrode from oxide once is starting to separate and setting on the bottom and yes, I keep it
I ordered some copper sulfate from GB but it will take a while and I don't like waiting
I took some measurements of my oldest batteries. They all read between 1.150 - 1.505V. The strongest one is "Dr Pepper" When connected to the oscillator I can decrease resistance and mA meter hits the end post which means over 20mA. LED is more than fully lit. She can hold over 20mA and V drop is very slow. What I did was a cement, 5% alum, 1tsp glass water, 2tsp calcium carbonate (2 large dissolving pills from med. cabinet) and 1/2 tsp of potassium permanganate KMnO4. All other cells except those new one in the oven have between 5-10 mA when shorted out.
I'll check the new ones later today when they dry a bit more.


Vtech
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  #364  
Old 03-02-2011, 08:37 AM
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I can't edit my previous post
I forgot about another battery poured inside 2L pop plastic bottle (neck removed) I used aluminum flex dryer hose and large 1/2 coil inside. She behaves like "Dr Pepper", while shorted mA meter hits the end post on 20mA scale. I'm reading just over 1.35V but as far as steady current she is the strong one.
I used 80% portland, 10% traction sand (washed), 5% alum, 1Tbsp liquid glass and 1Tbsp sodium bicarbonate.


Vtech
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  #365  
Old 03-02-2011, 01:02 PM
ibpointless2 ibpointless2 is offline
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Quote:
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Ibpointlass2,
The energy comes from the crystal lattice, but when examining the electrodes I see oxide forming on them and this it what allows the ions to move between plates, your battery was doped with Water Glass chemical grade heated to boiling, now the battery has twice the power. If you even touch the battery the heat from your hand can drive this to over 500Mv at 1.6 K ohms. The battery also has changed potential on the electrodes two times, but the current stays constant. As soon as the oxide forms on the metals the cell goes into operation, shorting them is no problem the cells just pop right back up. Any way I will keep reporting on this cell.
John B

That's a big increase in power when you just touch the cell, Does it increase when placed in the sun or when you blow warm air on it?

I've seen the pates swap potentials in my cells before. Sometimes, but not all the time, i can determine the potential of a cell by making one plate bigger than the other but it still can change. When i first started working on these cells the big plate would 98% of time be positive but now the big plate 90% of the time would be negative. When I first started this idea it was colder in temps and now its starting to warm up, do you think temp could have a affect on polarity. Or how about the location of the earth, i started working on this when it was winter and now since its spring the polarities have switched. What do you think would cause the potentials to switch?

I look forward to more results!
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  #366  
Old 03-02-2011, 06:06 PM
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Thanks.

Hi Chuck H , John B. and all. I have not had time to do any work on these lately but I wanted to take a moment and say thanks for posted all the information and especially posting lots of videos .

many thanks

al
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  #367  
Old 03-03-2011, 03:19 AM
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Hi guys, I stopped electrolysis earlier today and let it settle a bit. I can see very nice crystals forming already under magnifying glass. Copper oxide sits on the bottom. I'll try to get some pics.
I also checked my last three batteries which I made 2 nights ago. They are small, inside 2" Al pipe about 6" long. Beside portland I used clear fish pond gravel which really look like crystal up close. I made identical mixture except adding Al radiator seal to one and Cu seal to the other. They are both in the rank of strongest I've made so far as far as current. I can crank down resistance in oscillator and they allow to pull >30mA. V are slowly dropping but at 5mA which makes LED plenty bright voltage stays the same. The third one was made with both, Cu and Al seal but layered. This is Pepsi can and also strong. Will try to take a pic or make a short vid if anyone is interested.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]
Al radiator seal
[IMG][/IMG]
Copper radiator seal
[IMG][/IMG]

LED powered directly off 2 cells connected in series. This is 3V LED.
[IMG][/IMG]
There is visible thermoelectric effect in those small batteries. Voltage starts to climb within couple seconds when I hold them in my hand
[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]


Vtech
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Last edited by blackchisel97; 03-03-2011 at 04:45 AM. Reason: added pics
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  #368  
Old 03-03-2011, 05:41 AM
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Earth Lights/ Crystal Cell

Vetec,
That is excellent progress.I was looking around and some have been moving things to other forums not anybody we know here but they are not having the success we are having with the cells were building. I keep refining the chemicals to more like semiconductors. I have noticed that the copper oxide treated posts work very good for the copper rod. do a test and you will see. make the copper solution which you already have and make a copper posts very thick in oxide then use that in one of your cells, you might half to adjust the chemicals a little but it works.
John B
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  #369  
Old 03-03-2011, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Bedini View Post
Vetec,
That is excellent progress.I was looking around and some have been moving things to other forums not anybody we know here but they are not having the success we are having with the cells were building. I keep refining the chemicals to more like semiconductors. I have noticed that the copper oxide treated posts work very good for the copper rod. do a test and you will see. make the copper solution which you already have and make a copper posts very thick in oxide then use that in one of your cells, you might half to adjust the chemicals a little but it works.
John B
Thank you John I was thinking about that. I mean using those oxide covered posts as positive electrodes. Is there such thing as synchronized thinking
I'm waiting for the response from Holland Co. in US about sale and shipping of ammonium alum. They deal in 100lb qtity but I'll need to get the broker and all 9 yards. I'm trying to get 5-10lb sample if I can. I verified alum which I got locally, price was nice but it is potassium alum not ammonium.
Also I need to improvise efficient hood for cooking. Don't fancy using kitchen stove for that purpose

Update: hood and exhaust is done, looking for a hotplate...coffee maker...

Vtech
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Last edited by blackchisel97; 03-03-2011 at 07:27 AM. Reason: edit text
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  #370  
Old 03-03-2011, 12:52 PM
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Oxide covered posts

To cover a post with oxides all we need to do is put the posts in water with electrolyte and run ac current thru them until a lightbulb in series stops glowing right?
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  #371  
Old 03-03-2011, 05:00 PM
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Hybrid Cement Cell

I worked with variations on the basic cement cell before moving forward with the more advanced designs. I may set up a "cooking" area on my patio outside to be on the safe side.

I built a "Hybrid cell" that worked pretty good and made a short video to show it. It is made of a zinc electrical conduit connector with a piece of copper pipe in the middle. The cement mixture is Quikrete motor mix, Alum, radiator sealer, crushed white marble, and distilled water. The bottom of the cell has the copper and zinc exposed. When the mix set up the output was not that great so I decided to put the cell on a wet cloth with Alum and water on it. This made it galvanic at the bottom where it is in contact with the liquid electrolyte and boosted the power enough to run an LED circuit.

In the video I also show two other completely dry cement cells working. One is running a clock and the other a pulse motor.


YouTube - More load testing on cement batteries.ASF

We may have to wait months to get final readings out of these cells.

Lidmotor
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  #372  
Old 03-04-2011, 12:20 AM
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Little update. I started brewing finally, after installing exhaust for fumes.
I also hooked up "Big Bertha" to my rotor and it spins v.fast for the past 24hrs. Current draw 20mA and it reads about 0.6V under the load. Voltage is fluctuating up and down 2 mV but not dropping at all. Temperature rise even couple degrees causes voltage to rise as well.

@Lidmotor Thanks for vid


Vtech
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Last edited by blackchisel97; 03-04-2011 at 01:26 AM. Reason: spelling
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  #373  
Old 03-04-2011, 03:03 AM
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The Dr. Pepper cell

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Originally Posted by blackchisel97 View Post
Little update. I started brewing finally, after installing exhaust for fumes.
I also hooked up "Big Bertha" to my rotor and it spins v.fast for the past 24hrs. Current draw 20mA and it reads about 0.6V under the load. Voltage is fluctuating up and down 2 mV but not dropping at all. Temperature rise even couple degrees causes voltage to rise as well.

@Lidmotor Thanks for vid


Vtech
Based on what I am seeing--- your "Dr. Pepper" cell works about the best. I am wondering about the potasium permangenate and where it get it. That might be a magic ingredient.

@John B.
In my last video I showed a little clock running on one of my cells and I remember a ways back you asked about those potato battery clocks. The one that I found must be like those. It normally use one button cell. I found it at a dollar store and today I wired it into the cement battery permanently. This might be one of those loooong test run items. Someone said that the magic time is exceeding three months when the concrete becomes fully cured. The clock only draws a few micro amps but it needs over 1 volt to run.

Lidmotor
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  #374  
Old 03-04-2011, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
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Based on what I am seeing--- your "Dr. Pepper" cell works about the best. I am wondering about the potasium permangenate and where it get it. That might be a magic ingredient.
Actually "Big Bertha" seems to be the strongest. I used flex aluminum dryer hose and copper coil inside.
You can get it in pharmacy (KMnO4). It comes in the small plastic jar, about 1/2 ounce. I only used 1/4 tsp. It is active compound used as antiseptic. Stains badly when mixed with water. I remember playing with when I was 10 or so. It will ignite when exposed to glycerin.

I set another electrolysis to get some copper oxide deposited on the electrode which I'll use for another cell. First batch is evaporating nicely. It should be dry within couple hours.


Vtech
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  #375  
Old 03-04-2011, 04:16 AM
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Potassium Permaganate

You can also buy "KMnO4" as a tree stump killer. Check Home depot or lowes. Often times the higher concentrations of the stuff is around 95% KMnO4, and costs 4-8 bucks for a decent quantity of it.

Hope this helps.
This stuff sure is quirky,
==Romo
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  #376  
Old 03-04-2011, 04:59 AM
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Potassium permanganate is also used to remove rust in water softeners and green sand filters. Check the hardware store by the water softeners. Also pool supply stores carry it. I know Menards carries it.
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Old 03-04-2011, 05:00 AM
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more pics

Thanks petar113507

This is my improvised brewing setup. works pretty good. I had a better idea which would involve modifying our coffee maker as a hot plate but I don't like changing flavor of my morning cup

[IMG][/IMG]

And evaporating first batch
[IMG][/IMG]

And second batch applying coating of copper oxide to the wire electrode for another battery.
[IMG][/IMG]


Vtech
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  #378  
Old 03-04-2011, 05:09 AM
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Hydro Clock

We have had one similar to this running on H2O for 2 years now. you can find them all over the net for about 5-6 bucks. we did have to add a pinch of salt, and have had to replentish the water once so far - not sure what kind of probes they are using - but expect some long run times with these babies
we keep reading and have some of the materials to put a cement battery together this weekend when we'll finally have some time. Basket ball, Soccer, annual camp, and the usual are all overlapping right now.

Patrick
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Old 03-04-2011, 07:51 AM
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electrolysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquorate View Post
To cover a post with oxides all we need to do is put the posts in water with electrolyte and run ac current thru them until a lightbulb in series stops glowing right?
Actually we need a DC. I used 6/12V charger (which doesn't have a purpose anymore since I'm using John technology ).Copper oxide will accumulate on one electrode and eventually start falling down. Copper sulphate will settle in the lower part as well. You'll notice difference in blue color of electrolyte. There will be visible level of darker blue about 3/4" from the bottom during electrolysis. After you disconnect and let it settle for couple hours this darker area (higher concentration) will get about 1/2" and deeper blue. I used a battery tester to suck out as much from the surface as I could without disturbing bottom part, leaving only 1/2". Then I used my setup with heater and exhaust fan to evaporate the rest.


V
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  #380  
Old 03-04-2011, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackchisel97 View Post
Actually we need a DC. I used 6/12V charger (which doesn't have a purpose anymore since I'm using John technology ).Copper oxide will accumulate on one electrode and eventually start falling down. Copper sulphate will settle in the lower part as well. You'll notice difference in blue color of electrolyte. There will be visible level of darker blue about 3/4" from the bottom during electrolysis. After you disconnect and let it settle for couple hours this darker area (higher concentration) will get about 1/2" and deeper blue. I used a battery tester to suck out as much from the surface as I could without disturbing bottom part, leaving only 1/2". Then I used my setup with heater and exhaust fan to evaporate the rest.


V
what would be the difference between copper oxide and zinc oxide? Cause i already have zinc oxide and copper sulfate..

When my alum arrives i'll do one cell without it one with it, and see what the insider look like after.

I think things i'm ordering (Magnesium rods and stuff) are being quarantined cause they're not arriving.
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Old 03-04-2011, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
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what would be the difference between copper oxide and zinc oxide? Cause i already have zinc oxide and copper sulfate..
I guess we're about to find out.

Vtech
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  #382  
Old 03-04-2011, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackchisel97 View Post
Actually we need a DC. I used 6/12V charger (which doesn't have a purpose anymore since I'm using John technology ).Copper oxide will accumulate on one electrode and eventually start falling down. Copper sulphate will settle in the lower part as well. You'll notice difference in blue color of electrolyte. There will be visible level of darker blue about 3/4" from the bottom during electrolysis. After you disconnect and let it settle for couple hours this darker area (higher concentration) will get about 1/2" and deeper blue. I used a battery tester to suck out as much from the surface as I could without disturbing bottom part, leaving only 1/2". Then I used my setup with heater and exhaust fan to evaporate the rest.


V
Vtech
What are you using as an electrolyte?
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Old 03-04-2011, 08:07 PM
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Vtech
What are you using as an electrolyte?
I have a 3/4 L glass jar filled up to 3/4 with distilled water and 10ccm of acid battery electrolyte. I have several restored batteries and I just "borrowed" couple ml from each (they won't even notice). I set charger at 6V. At 12V process goes faster but fluid is getting quite warm.


Vtech
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  #384  
Old 03-05-2011, 05:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackchisel97 View Post
I guess we're about to find out.

Vtech
as soon as i have the alum i'll let us know
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Old 03-05-2011, 06:54 AM
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update

I finished evaporating one batch of acid and made two more batteries. They're drying. I used one of the copper oxide coated electrodes in one of them. Also used copper sulphate pentahydrate crystals, metallic copper crystals and copper silicate (radiator seal), fish gravel and portland.
Will report tomorrow when they dry a bit. Bertha still running and powering monopole rotor at 15mA. Despite the size and thickness she is responding to the temperature. Even holding for couple minutes causes increase of 5-8mV.
Dr Pepper running LED through an oscillator continuously.



Vtech
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  #386  
Old 03-05-2011, 07:57 AM
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@john bedini - is the relationship between the temperature of these cells and their output a linear one?

Have you kept that program on logging the cell? If so are there any apparent links with moon phases or tides?

Someone on another forum is arguing that the heat - power fluctuations are due to the temperature sensitivity of the semiconductor dopants. I don't have a rebuttal and thought you of all people would know if there's anything to his? explanation, or if it is given in error.
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Old 03-05-2011, 08:21 AM
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Earth Lights/ Crystal Cell

Inquorate,
Yes the voltage seems to rise on a linier scale, almost like a steam engine curve then flattens off. The cell I'm working with is using light doping taken from old solar cells seem to work good. temperature plays an important part in the cells output, but I see other things also. All the different salts seem to work too. I'm just not saying anything at this time until I know and it can be reproduced here.
John B
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Old 03-05-2011, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Bedini View Post
Inquorate,
Yes the voltage seems to rise on a linier scale, almost like a steam engine curve then flattens off. The cell I'm working with is using light doping taken from old solar cells seem to work good. temperature plays an important part in the cells output, but I see other things also. All the different salts seem to work too. I'm just not saying anything at this time until I know and it can be reproduced here.
John B
peachy thanks for the reply.
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  #389  
Old 03-05-2011, 04:29 PM
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A Test.

I have been formating a cell for the last week or so. I made it with copper pipe in the center.
I wanted to further test the thermal reactions of the battery.
So filled the copper pipe in the center of my battery with ICE. I was kinda thinking if heat on the ground side of the battery (The aluminum) raised the voltage and current production of the battery maybe using cold on the inside might as well.
Nope that didn't happen. But what did happen is pretty neat.

The temperature in the center went down so did the voltage. But the current went up a bit. So I took out side and stuck it in the sun and not only was the current up but the voltage came up as well. Hot always travels to cold. So cooling the center, and raising the temperature will help deliver more energy overall.

If anybody can confirm it I would appreciate it.

I just used a concrete battery with marble chips, sodium silicate, and portland. Aluminum pipe (1/16 thick) and 1/2 inch copper pipe in the center.

Thanks
Matt
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  #390  
Old 03-06-2011, 06:35 PM
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blackchisel97 blackchisel97 is offline
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@Matt I'll try to replicate but need to make another battery for that test.
@All
Update on batteries with copper sulfate pentahydrate (blue crystals). One battery is still wet but I dried the other one in the oven and she is running oscillator for the past 24 hrs delivering 5mA at 1.2V. I can lower base resistance of oscillator and pull 30mA which cause LED to become a search light however, voltage slowly drops. At approx 5mA voltage stays the same with LED bright.
For both cells I used copper electrodes (twisted grounding wire coil and 3/8" copper pipe coil) with copper oxide deposited on them. Also, copper sulfate crystals, fish clear(white) crystal gravel, copper silicate (rad seal), metallic copper crystals, portland cement.
I poured this in plastic tobacco can with 6" length of flex aluminum dryer hose and copper coil inside. I'll try to get some pics or vid later.
Those small 2" Al pipe batteries which I made 3-4 days ago using Al and Cu rad seal still holding over 1.5V. Copper seal doped slightly higher (30mV).
Their current dropped but I can still light LED directly from the two in series.


Vtech
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Last edited by blackchisel97; 03-06-2011 at 09:20 PM. Reason: typo
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