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  #3571 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2012, 02:40 PM
b_rads b_rads is offline
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Play Nice!

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Originally Posted by cgalvisardila View Post
Also, if anyone else here is offended by anything i said, i apologize, i'm only looking to learn and make some energy, that's all
Yes, to learn and make some energy is the quest for most of us on this forum. And, yes, your comments were rude and offensive to the people working on this project, spending their time, money, and effort in this endeavor.

See the attachment below for the closest thing that I have built to satisfy your request. This setup puts out 12+volts and 40mA. These cells have been in use for over 4 years and the cost of this system is less than 10 dollars. It will charge secondary batteries, caps, and run all of my electronic toys. In the picture below, you can see it lighting an LED from the lights above my workbench. When you figure out how to make this from scratch in the kitchen, let me know and I will call you a hero.

@Allwest, your chili powder cells are amazing. Do not make flubber (glue and borax) with chili powder, it does not work. I tried LOL.

@MonsieurM, thanks for the link on the fuel cells. Fuel Cells are my favorites, particularly the liquid fuel cells.
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Old 04-18-2012, 03:02 PM
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NickZ NickZ is offline
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I'm also very offended that you are criticizing the peanut butter and jelly cells.
Good thing that I didn't make any. Ha!
Worlds best kept secret... still unknown.
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Old 04-18-2012, 03:48 PM
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MonsieurM MonsieurM is offline
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one bit of info , worth exploring (not necessarily found in the kitchen ) is Dead Sea Salt ... often referenced in alternative discussions ( mostly for ORMUS making )

ps: It is a good salt to have in the kitchen
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  #3574 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2012, 05:08 PM
cgalvisardila cgalvisardila is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b_rads View Post
Yes, to learn and make some energy is the quest for most of us on this forum. And, yes, your comments were rude and offensive to the people working on this project, spending their time, money, and effort in this endeavor.

See the attachment below for the closest thing that I have built to satisfy your request. This setup puts out 12+volts and 40mA. These cells have been in use for over 4 years and the cost of this system is less than 10 dollars. It will charge secondary batteries, caps, and run all of my electronic toys. In the picture below, you can see it lighting an LED from the lights above my workbench. When you figure out how to make this from scratch in the kitchen, let me know and I will call you a hero.

@Allwest, your chili powder cells are amazing. Do not make flubber (glue and borax) with chili powder, it does not work. I tried LOL.

@MonsieurM, thanks for the link on the fuel cells. Fuel Cells are my favorites, particularly the liquid fuel cells.

Oh guys, so sorry... like i said to alwest, i appreciate every effort and the will to share of everyone here. maybe you should know that i have built earth cells, table salt cells, chlorine cells, lemon juice... all kinds of stuff with very simple every day material, i also have spent a lot of time and money on this project and will continue to do so, so far i like the crystal cells with carbon and MnO2, using good quality metals and materials like john suggested. they last a long time and put some decent power... its pretty interesting that you can make cheap solar cells, i wouldn't know how to make them, but this guy does.

How to Build a Solar Panel - Part 1 of 3 (New)step by step buying everything off ebay - YouTube

here's the mini cell i was telling you about, built it yesterday, based on the fuel cell idea, its just 3 small plates of copper - mag with paper soaked on electrolyte mix, VERY cheap to make, with one mag rod and one copper plate of good quality you can get 100 anodes and cathodes, cheers
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Old 04-18-2012, 05:33 PM
plengo plengo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgalvisardila View Post
here's the mini cell i was telling you about, built it yesterday, based on the fuel cell idea, its just 3 small plates of copper - mag with paper soaked on electrolyte mix, VERY cheap to make, with one mag rod and one copper plate of good quality you can get 100 anodes and cathodes, cheers
Can you tell more about this cell? You mention "fuel cell idea"?!! where is the detail of that idea, please?

Can you make a video showing how you build this tiny powerful cell?

Many thanks,

Fausto.
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Old 04-18-2012, 05:41 PM
cgalvisardila cgalvisardila is offline
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Sure! ill be glad to, ill do it tonight after class, this one is putting off 5V at around 20 Ma, but im sure it can give more with a better build.... the video that alwest posted gave me the idea:


Energy From Aluminum - YouTube
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Old 04-18-2012, 06:01 PM
Slider2732 Slider2732 is offline
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As a sideline project, i'm moving back to small cells myself, with the idea of stacking.
The one in the pic below was made by accident, sometimes the best way
After making an approx 1" diameter cell from usual enough stovetop ingredients and cat litter (from the idea on the previous page) i'd used a cotton bud to mix the mixture. Well, the whole of the ingredients were on the cotton bud cotton tip !
So, a piece of burnt copper and a piece of galvanized steel were placed either side, cotton was wound around to secure and then the little cell was encased in candle wax to seal.
Stacking cotton bud tip cells would produce quite the small battery and they could be linked horizontally as well as vertically.

Here it is just now, powering an LED oscillator (green LED version) with an American penny for size comparison.

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  #3578 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2012, 09:39 PM
cgalvisardila cgalvisardila is offline
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Just built 4 cells using the co-alum-MnO2-Hydrate#5 mix... all i can say is wow... these are 3 3.6volt leds, you cant even see them because of the glare.... hope it will last, only time will tell.... the video with the tiny cell is coming up, it works well, but the cylinder type cell clearly works beter, the plate design could be good to stack up hundreds of cells in order to make 120V at 20 Ma, it would take very little space and very cheap to make, that will be my next proyect, cheers
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File Type: jpg Hydrate cell 2.JPG (64.3 KB, 19 views)
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  #3579 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2012, 10:17 PM
cgalvisardila cgalvisardila is offline
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Here's a video of the construction of the mini cell, cheers

mini cell - YouTube

also some news you might be interested in

Amazing Solar Flare Photos of April 16, 2012| Space Weather | Space.com
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:11 PM
plengo plengo is offline
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Originally Posted by cgalvisardila View Post
Here's a video of the construction of the mini cell, cheers

mini cell - YouTube

also some news you might be interested in

Amazing Solar Flare Photos of April 16, 2012| Space Weather | Space.com
Excellent work. Such a small cell and so powerful.
So you are using:
Carbon 1 part
Alum 1 part
Silicon Gel 1/2 part
Hyd #5 1/8 part (which one is this? Rochelle? Epson salts?)
Mn02 Pinch (like finger tips quantity?)
Iron Pyrite 1/4 part

Can you confirm please?

Fausto.
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  #3581 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2012, 11:33 PM
Allwest Allwest is offline
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I am glad everyone is back in tune


I was looking for an update on the 1 amp cell that John and chuck created and found this

Crystal cell paste - YouTube

WOW!
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  #3582 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2012, 12:32 AM
cgalvisardila cgalvisardila is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plengo View Post
Excellent work. Such a small cell and so powerful.
So you are using:
Carbon 1 part
Alum 1 part
Silicon Gel 1/2 part
Hyd #5 1/8 part (which one is this? Rochelle? Epson salts?)
Mn02 Pinch (like finger tips quantity?)
Iron Pyrite 1/4 part

Can you confirm please?

Fausto.
OK, here's the exact formula with details:

Activated carbon: 1pt

Alum: 1pt

Silica gel: 1/8 or even less, for this i grind the silica gel pellets into dust, its only purpose is to absorb water.

Hydrate #5: 1/8pt, this one is not so easy to find and not cheap either, i got it at sciencelab.com, its full name is Sodium meta-silicate pentahydrate. bedini had said if i recall correctly, that this keeps the hydrogen from eating on the metals... it does not seem to stop the corrosion though, but it might slow it down.

MnO2: 3 pinches, id say just the tip of a spoon. full name is manganese dioxide reagent. with this one, i recommend using pure MnO2 from a lab, not the old batteries, it seems to work better Search Results for 'Mno2'. this is also a recommendation that bedini makes: use pure, high quality materials. this mno2 is expensive, $50 for 25g, fortunately you only use very little to make a mix, it really seems to boost the power up.

Iron pyrite: 1/4 pt, probably is not so necessary to use so much, or probably more will give different results, here's where we can work together to try different ratios, this seems to be key also, RATIOS. this is a painstaking job, i usually make 5 or 6 variations of ratios for each mix, but i think bedini got that wonderful mix by being meticulous.

i made a variation using some silver crystals that i grew usin silver nitrate, i wont go into details yet because im testing it, and so far it seems to work the same as the others except it needs less water.

i fire treat the copper and fuse some pyrite on the walls to slow down the corrosion as fausto demonstrated, i'd like to know about your progress with the metal protection, if we crack this one we have a big winner, imagine a single cell made of 100 plates giving 120V or more that does not corrode. this mix is also flooded, nowhere near dry, it loves water, so it would be good to come up with a small compartment for each cell to hold an individual load of water so the cell wont short out when watered, this is the way they do it on the aluminum water cell in the video, watch how they connect hoses to each individual plate.

we'll have to see about corrosion, the MnO2 can be corrosive, so all the work on the research for metal protection is very valuable, thanks!
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  #3583 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2012, 12:39 AM
cgalvisardila cgalvisardila is offline
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Hydrate 5 and MnO2

heres the labels for these 2 products, be very careful with these two, both can cause serious problems if you breathe the powder, specially the MnO2 comes in a very fine powder, stir very slow so no powder rises, cheers
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Last edited by cgalvisardila : 04-19-2012 at 12:55 AM.
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Old 04-19-2012, 02:43 AM
cgalvisardila cgalvisardila is offline
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plate cell

Just an update on the plates cell, i used a magnesium sheet with a copper sheet, so it's even thiner, is about the same size as the older one, but this one has 8 layers instead of 3, producing aroun 8V at 10Ma, here it is powering 3 of my 3.6 LEDs, wont last long though i know the mag is gonna corrode, but ill let you jknow how long it lasts. on the first pic 8-1, all lights are off, except the one being powered by the mini cell, cheers
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File Type: jpg mini cell 8-2.JPG (76.1 KB, 17 views)
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File Type: jpg mini cell 8-4.JPG (98.8 KB, 14 views)
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Old 04-19-2012, 02:57 AM
Allwest Allwest is offline
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cgalvisardila,

Excellent, thanks for sharing
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  #3586 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2012, 01:27 PM
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reddpill reddpill is offline
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Transmuting and the key to the universe.

Started my terracotta - clay building and firing course today(all because of this thread!) and found out about the heating process of 'clay'. They have two different types of kilns, one electric and one flame based. The difference between the two is that the flame kiln allows you to almost completely remove oxygen from the process which creates colours within the glaze. The electric kiln does not allow to do this. The colours come from the metals within the different glazes used. Red is iron and blue is cobalt and depends on the glaze oxide types. The colours will spread to other vessels within the same kiln even if one of the vessels are not glazed but it will also create non-coloured areas(my guess it that it's a cooler region?).

As soon as this was being discussed I thought that you guys would like to know this as it seems in order to transmute metals, one needs to remove oxygen from the process and seems this is exactly what happens in the ground/earth as it reminded me of the copper oxide process for the cathode. Researchers like Les Brown have shown the transmutation of metals within a pyramid (zinc to calcium) and I believe that is what this shape seems to control, the removal of oxygen, shape of magnetite and it's reaction with oxygen.

Also, the process of firing that the course leader stated was that there are at least two stages of firing of the clay...the first stage is about 150-200 degrees and that's called 'something' (a name I cannot remember but it's to do with 'crystallizing the clay') and reminded me of the melting process of the salts. The next step is 550-600 degrees to set the clay vessels but before she stated the temp. setting I said 500-600 degrees and she was rather shocked! But as stated above we all know why, it resets the magnetite/iron particles in the casing and this would be effect the iron pyrite within the pyrite based cells. After that, it's above 1000 degrees to do 'wild' things with clay(^cough John, copper, transmutation.

Concluding.
Tesla always said that if you understood the numbers 3, 6 and 9 you would have the key to the universe. Well on page 18-19 of Nature As Teacher by Callum Coats on Victor Schauberger, he states;
"In order to obtain a greater quantity and better quality of worms within the meal, a old woollen cloth or bone is placed in the meal and the lid closed. The increase of worm population is caused by the introduced third category of carbone whose origin stems from a group of vegetable matter more complex than the meal... the present of a third, more highly organised substance is necessary in order to activate the energies and create the conditions, eg a drop of oil in water of the appropriate composition." . This goes back to the scientist that created life in a lab back in the early 1900's.

I think we need to re-read Edward Leedskalnin (Mineral, vegetable & animal)! It makes 9! with 3 different stages of 'evolution', even the aztec pyramid has 9 steps for a reason. If you research Keely and what Dale Pond has to say, it's all about 3 and his drawings show this.

Les brown proved this with his 'pebble in water' calculation which shows the propagation of waves into the next stage(frequencies, octaves).
Les Brown and the basic Law Of Nature. - YouTube - Pebble experiment.

Recently I came across an experience written by a man when visiting monks from Tibet. There he recorded that he said the moving of rocks up onto a higher ledge was done using drums and singing, he stated that there was stages when once the stone resonated, they move up an 'octave'.

Even the NewGrange symbol is '3' based vortex spiral!


Key to the universal, you better believe it. We just need to apply it to this and sorry for the rant and but I think this is too important.

Last edited by reddpill : 04-19-2012 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 04-19-2012, 04:05 PM
CrystalDipoleMatrix CrystalDipoleMatrix is offline
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Thank you

Thank you red pill, cgalvisardila, plengo and others for staying on track with the truth. It keeps me alive!
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Old 04-19-2012, 06:50 PM
Slider2732 Slider2732 is offline
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Reddpill - thanks..that was very informative and brought together a few things, to many i'm sure. Certainly, the men referenced shared more than a concept, an understanding.

An offshoot idea, within your new coursework - could you fire different salts within the clay ? What happens at higher temperature, with controlled, flame kiln firing ?
I don't mean to throw a few granules of Epsom salts in when the course teacher isn't watching lol.
It would be good to know what kind of impurity level needs to be steered clear from, to avoid adverse (brittling) effects of the finished pottery piece that could lead to collapse of the structure.
One may imagine a caveman firing the first pottery. At some point he begins kicking highly charged plasma balls away from the flames ! You could hand him a lightbulb and he'd have no idea how to connect it to the wheelworks of nature that he has discovered.
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Old 04-19-2012, 06:55 PM
cgalvisardila cgalvisardila is offline
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speaking of corrosion resistance, look at this guys

Taiwan Lectures: Introduction to Crystallography, Part 1 - YouTube

i wonder how we could make those magnesium crystals...
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Old 04-19-2012, 08:59 PM
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reddpill reddpill is offline
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Oxygen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slider2732 View Post
Reddpill - thanks..that was very informative and brought together a few things, to many i'm sure. Certainly, the men referenced shared more than a concept, an understanding.

An offshoot idea, within your new coursework - could you fire different salts within the clay ? What happens at higher temperature, with controlled, flame kiln firing ?
I don't mean to throw a few granules of Epsom salts in when the course teacher isn't watching lol.
It would be good to know what kind of impurity level needs to be steered clear from, to avoid adverse (brittling) effects of the finished pottery piece that could lead to collapse of the structure.
One may imagine a caveman firing the first pottery. At some point he begins kicking highly charged plasma balls away from the flames ! You could hand him a lightbulb and he'd have no idea how to connect it to the wheelworks of nature that he has discovered.
One thing I forgot to say is that before the terracotta is 'thrown' on the wheel it is needed like bread. But unlike making bread where you are rolling it in order to put more oxygen into the dough so it 'puffs up', you are trying to remove all the oxygen from within the clay. Funny after explaining to my teacher about nature, implosion and vortexes she came out and said it when she went and got another piece of clay, "your right, I'm moving in a vortex fashion, on itself."

Too much oxygen will cause the pot to explode in the kiln. Making it too thin will cause it to become brittle. Yeah I've thought about throwing in some magnetite(just don't have any) into the mix but not salt. It's a one on one course so I maybe able too but I will sure ask about it's effects (if I remember, lol)

Anyway, another course day today so I'll no doubt learn something else!

Being it my birthday today, I feel like I have solved the mystery of the universe last night, what a gift.

Talk later and share the cake amongst yourselves.


Last edited by reddpill : 04-19-2012 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 04-19-2012, 10:55 PM
Allwest Allwest is offline
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reddpill,

Happy birthday!
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Old 04-19-2012, 11:01 PM
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Happy B reddpill , glad to see you had your Eureka moment
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Old 04-20-2012, 12:32 AM
cgalvisardila cgalvisardila is offline
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Happy birthday redpill, that's very interesting what you're talking about... i made another plate cell this time with a better build, plates don't move this time, they wont be shorting out now, 6 plates steady 5V at 8Ma... not great, but you can feel a lot of potential... cheers
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Last edited by cgalvisardila : 04-20-2012 at 12:44 AM.
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Old 04-20-2012, 03:47 PM
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NickZ NickZ is offline
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You might also want to try your cell stack placed in parallel instead, connected to an efficient oscillator circuit. This way you'll avoid the increasing higher impedance that series placement gives.

I'm able to get 0.65 volts and 8 or more mAs by using just a very small single piece of activated carbon, and a small coin of unknown metal. Paper electrolyte, no salts or anything else, (no peanut butter).
But, making the cell by filling an aluminum tube and using a carbon rod it will give me 75mAs.
The voltage level becomes less important when using an oscillator circuit, as they can even run down to as low as 0.35 volts or less, still providing good led light. But the higher the current, the higher the light intensity.
I'd also try putting a c-clamp or even a clothes pin to clamp down on the cells, the increased pressure can double or even tripple the current output, in some cases.

To obtain amp(s) you have to wear magic shoes... I've got mine on order.
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Old 04-20-2012, 05:28 PM
cgalvisardila cgalvisardila is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickZ View Post
You might also want to try your cell stack placed in parallel instead, connected to an efficient oscillator circuit. This way you'll avoid the increasing higher impedance that series placement gives.

I'm able to get 0.65 volts and 8 or more mAs by using just a very small single piece of activated carbon, and a small coin of unknown metal. Paper electrolyte, no salts or anything else, (no peanut butter).
But, making the cell by filling an aluminum tube and using a carbon rod it will give me 75mAs.
The voltage level becomes less important when using an oscillator circuit, as they can even run down to as low as 0.35 volts or less, still providing good led light. But the higher the current, the higher the light intensity.
I'd also try putting a c-clamp or even a clothes pin to clamp down on the cells, the increased pressure can double or even tripple the current output, in some cases.

To obtain amp(s) you have to wear magic shoes... I've got mine on order.

nice, ill keep that in mind for the next one, the plate cells put much less Ma than the cylinder type, i did notice that putting pressure on the plates gives better amps, i guess it's because there's better contact.... it would be great to get more amps, that would be key because the point of building these cells using small plates is to have hundreds of plates done cheap and small size.... also when the crystals grow the plates short out. yet if you clean them up they go back, thanks for the feedback!

Last edited by cgalvisardila : 04-20-2012 at 05:53 PM.
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  #3596 (permalink)  
Old 04-20-2012, 05:38 PM
Slider2732 Slider2732 is offline
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Did you make yourself a cake Reddpill ? ...

A focus, can be to realise what the cells will need to do and when they will need to do it. It's all fine and dandy to light LED's for months, but, we already see in blocking oscillators such as the 'Penny' type, that a charge needs to build and then the light is 'fired' as a flash. Better amperage, quicker firing, brighter light and then constant running. But - if an LED goes unobserved for hours, does it need to flash ? can it instead divert the power output to other work as part of the same circuit ?
If the trickle of energy were stored and fired on demand, then we gain functionality and usefulness from those months and months of outputs commonly available...in my opinion.

Outside at the moment, my garden fence radiant collector will either flash a 'Penny' twice a second or, flash an LED much brighter every approx 4 seconds, or, can build up a charge on a cap to around 16.5V overnight.
My thoughts are, that if we steer toward the running methods of say a lighthouse, with delayed but highly effective output, that the cells can really shine
Then, chain such delays and you have seemingly much stronger continual output if required (think of Li-Po batteries and their protection circuits, but being blocking oscillators on each cell. Running like Night Rider lights in switched sequential operation, rest, charge, fire).

Speaking of Radus boots magic shoes lol, you can see that once the Leedskalnin PMH's have energized, there is a time period before the wearer moves again and breaks the magnetic bondings.
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Old 04-20-2012, 06:33 PM
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NickZ NickZ is offline
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My oscillators don't make the leds blink, at least not when using more than just a mA. My leds are always on, even when using several of them. I'm not using micro-amps, these days, thanks to my carbon cells which run at a constant 10 to 30mA, down from 6o to 75mA open circuit.
The circuit that I use for my cells is the Jtc that uses no resistor, the kn2222A transistor, and the led(s) are connected from between the C and B, instead of C and E. It works just fine with my cells, without blinking, even without an elaborate secondary coil, or higher voltages. Of course to run many leds a secondary coil on the ferrite core works better yet. A cell or two with 100 mA output would work very very nice, with that set up.
Silica gel does help to keep the cells moist, sometimes soaking wet, even forming puddles at times when the weather is rainy. But, silica seams to lose its glue like, metal protection abilities with time, when always maintaining wetness.
Anyways, just some thoughts...

Last edited by NickZ : 04-20-2012 at 06:50 PM.
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Old 04-20-2012, 07:30 PM
br0ns0n77 br0ns0n77 is offline
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Hey guys - in the past week I've read every single message in this thread and have become increasingly interested in participating. I'm very new to electronics and even have a couple of LEDs burning like you fellas using the same methods. One thing I have yet to dig into was how to make an oscillator circuit. Can anyone point me to a basic tutorial on what I need to make one and how precise the build has to be in order for it to work? I tried making a joule thief a few weeks ago and could never get it to work.

Thanks in advance for the help!
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:06 PM
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NickZ NickZ is offline
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This is the oscillator circuit that I'm using. The led(s) are connected between the C and the B on the transistor. I used a ferrite bead, 1/2" by 1/2" core with only about 10 turns bifilar, and can still work at less than 0.3volts.
It works fine with all my cells, and is very very easy to make, as it has practically no components.
The tiny toroids out of a CFL will also work well. Give it a try...

Joule Thief very very low input 0,136 volt - YouTube

Last edited by NickZ : 04-20-2012 at 11:10 PM.
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Old 04-21-2012, 02:51 AM
br0ns0n77 br0ns0n77 is offline
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Thanks Nick for the help! I'll give it a try.
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