Energetic Forum  
Facebook Twitter Google+ Pinterest LinkedIn Delicious Digg Reddit WordPress StumbleUpon Tumblr Translate Addthis Aaron Murakami YouTube 2020 ENERGY CONFERENCE - PRE-REGISTER NOW!!!!

2020 Energy Science & Technology Conference
PRE-REGISTER NOW!!!
http://energyscienceconference.com


Go Back   Energetic Forum > > >
   

John Bedini Discussion threads relating to John Bedini. Bedini SG, Bedini SSG, Crystal Batteries, etc...

* NEW * BEDINI RPX BOOK & DVD SET: BEDINI RPX

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #3001  
Old 02-22-2012, 01:48 AM
ibpointless2 ibpointless2 is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 829
I had a few people ask me to show them the amps on a cell that has the petroleum jelly on the magnesium electrode and here is that video. Showing Amps on cell with petroleum jelly on the Magnesium - YouTube


I'm using water that contains Epsom salt and salt substitute, both salts are very corrosive when combined with water and that's why i try to avoid water when it came to making the glue cells. I use Magnesium Ribbon because it will corrode faster than any form of magnesium but so far its not corroding and the control cells are showing corrosion. The control cells are corroding and the jelly on magnesium cell is not corroding so it looks good so far. I'm getting under 1mA which is ok.

My idea is since petroleum jelly rejects water away it does so by pushing the oxygen molecule in water away and in doing so the oxygen doesn't react with the magnesium to form magnesium oxide which is not conductive and breaks apart. Magnesium corrodes into magnesium oxide which is not conductive and is a powder, the reason why magnesium breaks apart is due to it becoming magnesium oxide which is a powder. Jbigness5 has made a good point, it could be the oxygen that corrodes the metal and since water contains the oxygen than the electrodes are corroding away. Combine water with the oxygen in the air and you get a good bit more corrosion. On some corrosion testing i've done on magnesium it would corrode first at where the water meets the air, so water and oxygen or mostly oxygen is a bad cookie.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote

Download SOLAR SECRETS by Peter Lindemann
Free - Get it now: Solar Secrets

  #3002  
Old 02-22-2012, 01:56 AM
John_K John_K is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 550
Iron Pyrite

For kicks last night I placed some Iron Pyrite in a bowl of water and measured the votage and current to see what would happen. Here's a video:

Energy from Iron Pyrite - YouTube

I couldn't get much out of two pieces of Iron Pyrite, but I had great results with one Iron Pyrite rock, some copper coated welding rod and just filtered rain water.

The other interesting thing was that after about an hour the colour of the water changed to resemble the colour of the Iron Pyrite. At this time I measured >700mV and >200uA. I'm going to try to run John B's oscillator on it tonight.

I'd post a photo but have run out of space here.

Now I just have to add the bleach


John K.
__________________
http://teslagenx.com
Reply With Quote
  #3003  
Old 02-22-2012, 02:37 AM
ibpointless2 ibpointless2 is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 829
Quote:
Originally Posted by prato_braun View Post
Thanks for the quick answer so we could use a normal oven to reach this temperature but i guess it wouldn'T be too healthy to bake cake in it again afterwards or am I wrong?

It's really amazing to see you guys pushing things further every damn week and I just wish I had more time for replicating and testing right now.
Can't get back to that for some weeks and the last thing we did was a stove top. Thanks to IB again, with your video we got it right after 8 failed tries.
I know it lacks in amps but we had the chemicals and I won't learn just by reading

Everybody keep it up this stuff rocks. Has anyone build the "cheap'n'easy" joule ringer and tried to run it from a single stove top?
Cause we just have fun so far but getting light out of it would be awesome

Cheers,

Prato
Glad to hear you got it working!
__________________
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. - Arthur Schopenhauer
Reply With Quote
  #3004  
Old 02-22-2012, 02:45 AM
Slider2732 Slider2732 is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Muskogee, Oklahoma, USA
Posts: 1,006
@John_K...Photobucket.com are still going fine and are reliable. I've never run out of bandwidth or storage space with them for the last 6 years.

@IB2....I took your petroleum jelly method and ran with it.
But, with galvanized steel.
Got a long runner here of plain water in a pills bottle, with untreated copper and galvanized steel electrodes. It's been running an LED oscillator since November (Nephilim Penny with her big pancake coils) and has only had a clean of the steel a couple of weeks ago. A rust/white residue forms on the steel, on the couple of these that i've made and did so on this one. Quick Dremmel to remove the sludge stuff and off we go again, same water throughout.
So I cleaned up the steel again with the Dremmel just now and put Vaseline on it.
Connected all together again and nothing happened.
I waited for 2 minutes, wondering about whether to replace the steel piece when, suddenly, flash flash flash it started up !
So, my question is - do you think the ions need to form pathways through the jelly and once they do, ion movement returns ?
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #3005  
Old 02-22-2012, 03:09 AM
ibpointless2 ibpointless2 is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 829
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slider2732 View Post
@John_K...Photobucket.com are still going fine and are reliable. I've never run out of bandwidth or storage space with them for the last 6 years.

@IB2....I took your petroleum jelly method and ran with it.
But, with galvanized steel.
Got a long runner here of plain water in a pills bottle, with untreated copper and galvanized steel electrodes. It's been running an LED oscillator since November (Nephilim Penny with her big pancake coils) and has only had a clean of the steel a couple of weeks ago. A rust/white residue forms on the steel, on the couple of these that i've made and did so on this one. Quick Dremmel to remove the sludge stuff and off we go again, same water throughout.
So I cleaned up the steel again with the Dremmel just now and put Vaseline on it.
Connected all together again and nothing happened.
I waited for 2 minutes, wondering about whether to replace the steel piece when, suddenly, flash flash flash it started up !
So, my question is - do you think the ions need to form pathways through the jelly and once they do, ion movement returns ?
This is odd, I get instant response. I don't know if vaseline is the same as the 100% pure petroleum jelly as I use which is just the Walmart brand. Could it be the galvanized steel that you use? do you get a instant response when you hook it up to a volt meter? Are you using just plain tap water? I used Epsom salt and salt substitute water to get more power. This is interesting.
__________________
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. - Arthur Schopenhauer
Reply With Quote
  #3006  
Old 02-22-2012, 04:05 AM
Herbie687's Avatar
Herbie687 Herbie687 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 50
Intro & Questions - Alum + Water MgCu Cells

Hi everyone, I'm Kyle. Me and my friends have been experimenting with these crystal cells for the last 2 months now, and we want more info to help us along in getting this stuff out to the world. You all proabably want me to share my findings too, which I can do at the permission of my partners.

@JohnBedini Your YouTube Vids at the Energenx Channel have been a backbone for our research. Thankyou for posting them!
I have a few questions for you, and for anyone else who knows the answer also.
We want to start experimenting with the Alum + Water Cells, but before we do, we need more info.

1. Is it Galvonic? (or is that still TBD?)
2. Does the water evaporate? If so, is it Water Vapor, or Brown's Gas?
3. Is there anything else that I need to know about Alum + Water Cells?
__________________
- Kyle Herbig
Reply With Quote
  #3007  
Old 02-22-2012, 04:23 AM
John_Bedini's Avatar
John_Bedini John_Bedini is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hayden Lake, ID, USA
Posts: 914
Quote:
Originally Posted by John_K View Post
For kicks last night I placed some Iron Pyrite in a bowl of water and measured the votage and current to see what would happen. Here's a video:

Energy from Iron Pyrite - YouTube

I couldn't get much out of two pieces of Iron Pyrite, but I had great results with one Iron Pyrite rock, some copper coated welding rod and just filtered rain water.

The other interesting thing was that after about an hour the colour of the water changed to resemble the colour of the Iron Pyrite. At this time I measured >700mV and >200uA. I'm going to try to run John B's oscillator on it tonight.

I'd post a photo but have run out of space here.

Now I just have to add the bleach


John K.
John K,
If I might make an suggestion, When those Two guys showed up this is what they said to do, Take the two pieces of Iron Pyrite and place them in this dish add water so the clip leads do not touch the water. So you have a shallow dish with a water bridge between them then measure again, you might have to move the rocks around. The motor was connected between the two pieces of pyrite. I tried to look for the motor they gave me but it's to cold in that outbuilding for me right now. I was going to give you the specifications of it. I'm also looking for the old VHS tape of the shack I had gone to visit. With any luck it will get a little warmer. Remember I said I thought that the iron pyrite was emitting sulfuric acid, was my thinking at the time. This has been almost 31 years ago so the details are faint but I never forgot what happened.
John B
__________________
John Bedini
www.johnbedini.net
Reply With Quote
  #3008  
Old 02-22-2012, 04:34 AM
John_Bedini's Avatar
John_Bedini John_Bedini is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hayden Lake, ID, USA
Posts: 914
the chicken and the egg

Chuck,
The experiment will work, you know the chicken and the egg, I found the strips of magnesium tonight. but I'm looking for that little motor. But I did find the opal they gave me, I wonder if they mixed that with the plate material they made. as I said it's faint after 31 years. It's quite a good size about 5 inches in diameter.
John
__________________
John Bedini
www.johnbedini.net
Reply With Quote
  #3009  
Old 02-22-2012, 04:48 AM
cgalvisardila cgalvisardila is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 92
Herbie,

Alum is pretty corrosive, most of the guys here are using a mix of epsom salts and Rochelle salts, read the past threads as much as you can, its a long read, but its sure worth it, also check for bedini's latest videos and Plengo's, he has good stuff too

Energenx's Channel - YouTube

Crystal Cell 19a - YouTube

cheers
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #3010  
Old 02-22-2012, 04:58 AM
Herbie687's Avatar
Herbie687 Herbie687 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgalvisardila View Post
Herbie,

Alum is pretty corrosive, most of the guys here are using a mix of epsom salts and Rochelle salts, read the past threads as much as you can, its a long read, but its sure worth it, also check for bedini's latest videos and Plengo's, he has good stuff too

Energenx's Channel - YouTube

Crystal Cell 19a - YouTube

cheers
Thanks cgalvisardila. We have been experimenting with Rochelle Salt + Epsom Salt Cells since we started, though we are investigating into other kinds of cells that are developing. I will go through all of the past posts the next time I get a big chunk of time.
Also, I did a quick google search on Alum a few weeks back, and apparently there are multiple chemicals that are alum, but the most common is Potassium Aluminium Sulfate. The one you used was corrosive, but are the others also?
I saw John Bedini's video on his kit that uses Alum. John, what's your take on this?
__________________
- Kyle Herbig
Reply With Quote
  #3011  
Old 02-22-2012, 05:00 AM
John_Bedini's Avatar
John_Bedini John_Bedini is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hayden Lake, ID, USA
Posts: 914
Alum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbie687 View Post
Hi everyone, I'm Kyle. Me and my friends have been experimenting with these crystal cells for the last 2 months now, and we want more info to help us along in getting this stuff out to the world. You all proabably want me to share my findings too, which I can do at the permission of my partners.

@JohnBedini Your YouTube Vids at the Energenx Channel have been a backbone for our research. Thankyou for posting them!
I have a few questions for you, and for anyone else who knows the answer also.
We want to start experimenting with the Alum + Water Cells, but before we do, we need more info.

1. Is it Galvonic? (or is that still TBD?)
2. Does the water evaporate? If so, is it Water Vapor, or Brown's Gas?
3. Is there anything else that I need to know about Alum + Water Cells?
Herbie687.
I guess we will start with the first one, That is a question that has two answers as my Alum cells are still working after 1 year. Nothing has rotted away so yes and no. I think Chucks are still running everyday under load. The Alum crystal just keep growing.
Gas, is not Browns gas but gas yes. The water will evaporate.
I think you know everything we know as you can flip through the posts here.
Others here may have a different opinion so you should ask them too.
We use food grade alum as safety is a concern.

John
__________________
John Bedini
www.johnbedini.net

Last edited by John_Bedini; 02-22-2012 at 05:04 AM. Reason: Adding Information
Reply With Quote
  #3012  
Old 02-22-2012, 05:10 AM
Herbie687's Avatar
Herbie687 Herbie687 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Bedini View Post
Herbie687.
I guess we will start with the first one, That is a question that has two answers as my Alum cells are still working after 1 year. Nothing has rotted away so yes and no. I think Chucks are still running everyday under load. The Alum crystal just keep growing.
Gas, is not Browns gas but gas yes. The water will evaporate.
I think you know everything we know as you can flip through the posts here.
Others here may have a different opinion so you should ask them too.
We use food grade alum as safety is a concern.

John
Thanks John. Will Do.
__________________
- Kyle Herbig
Reply With Quote
  #3013  
Old 02-22-2012, 05:11 AM
John_Bedini's Avatar
John_Bedini John_Bedini is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hayden Lake, ID, USA
Posts: 914
for those that think this can not be done with Alum

@All for those that think this can not be done. As I have done this many times. Just as an example I even dump out the acid in a new battery and change it to Alum, The battery in my Hot Rod is almost 14 years old and it does not corrode anything, so it works.
Sepp Hasslberger: How to convert a Lead Acid Battery into an Alkaline Battery
John
__________________
John Bedini
www.johnbedini.net

Last edited by John_Bedini; 02-22-2012 at 05:20 AM. Reason: Adding Information
Reply With Quote
  #3014  
Old 02-22-2012, 05:47 AM
cgalvisardila cgalvisardila is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 92
John,

do you think the alum is reacting with the carbon, and that's why it turns corrosive? this is a good point you rise here, i did notice a strong amonia smell on the first day i built a cell with carbon+alum replicating fausto's mix (it actually turned out to be a powerful cell) and a few days later the Mg was almost gone, fausto had the same experience... maybe that was giving the false impression that alum is corrosive, thanks for the article john... every day, new light into the matter
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #3015  
Old 02-22-2012, 06:18 AM
John_Bedini's Avatar
John_Bedini John_Bedini is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hayden Lake, ID, USA
Posts: 914
magnesium

cgalvisardila.
Look I have always used the copper treated and I have also always used very expensive magnesium in my cells My favorite cells are the Alum cells, I did not have any luck with Graphite or Carbon as I did not see what the group did with the power. The graphite has always plugged up and the same for the carbon. These are my findings. The only reason the magnesium is gone is some galvanic action is taking place. Now the only thing different is that I'm running My oscillator circuit which I know returns back to the Alum cell. But I think Fausto has said the same thing in advise he gave someone here about oscillators. The Magnesium if pure should not do that, unless you are using some contaminated water in the mix of which I have found to be true. What Alum are you using as I use the food grade only. I do not agree with Ibpointless about using jelly of any kind as that is not the answer here to this problem. I have not had that happen and we run the cell day and night. The normal rate of Galvanic action is around 1 to 2% in a bad condition but as this happens it changes the mixture and it becomes very caustic to the magnesium and it eats away very fast almost as if you added table salt. so as this takes place you should see good power from the cell and then it will just die.
The next thing is how could you smell that if everything was new , did you use a carbon pole from a old carbon zinc battery? If you did you have caused the problem. If you do that then you must clean it and bake it and clean it again. soak over night in hot water rinse the next mooring and do it again until nothing is left.
John B
__________________
John Bedini
www.johnbedini.net

Last edited by John_Bedini; 02-22-2012 at 06:52 AM. Reason: Adding Information
Reply With Quote
  #3016  
Old 02-22-2012, 06:59 AM
Lidmotor's Avatar
Lidmotor Lidmotor is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,011
A word of caution

@All
I am still doing testing on various cells. A couple of things that I discovered the hard way might help others avoid the mistakes:

1) When you are testing these cells remember that the clip leads or the probes from your meter can represent ONE OF THE DISSIMILAR METALS in a cell if it comes in contact with the cell electrolyte.

2) Some of my cells form a dry hard shell around the outside but are still moist in the middle. It gives you a false conclusion that the cell is totally dry. Think about how a tube of glue can form a dry pulg at the tip and keep the rest of the glue in the tube liquid. Same thing. The liquid water is sealed up inside.

3) Meters can lie to you. Something as simple as a bad contact point or a weak battery in the meter can throw a reading off. One of the main reasons that I built "Penny" was to backup what my meters were telling me and give me a better visual and audio way to observe cell performance.

Maybe this will help someone else and save some time and frustration.

Lidmotor
__________________
 

Last edited by Lidmotor; 02-22-2012 at 07:04 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3017  
Old 02-22-2012, 07:31 AM
John_Bedini's Avatar
John_Bedini John_Bedini is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hayden Lake, ID, USA
Posts: 914
water that is hidden under that crust

Lidmotor,
Good advise here on what could happen with the clip leads and it will happen very fast as they are Zinc/Tin plated. And good advise on the water that is hidden under that crust. Hope this helps all the new people doing these experiments.
John B
__________________
John Bedini
www.johnbedini.net

Last edited by John_Bedini; 02-22-2012 at 07:33 AM. Reason: correction
Reply With Quote
  #3018  
Old 02-22-2012, 08:37 AM
blackchisel97's Avatar
blackchisel97 blackchisel97 is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: NB, Canada
Posts: 1,702
Send a message via Skype™ to blackchisel97
Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Bedini View Post
@All for those that think this can not be done. As I have done this many times. Just as an example I even dump out the acid in a new battery and change it to Alum, The battery in my Hot Rod is almost 14 years old and it does not corrode anything, so it works.
Sepp Hasslberger: How to convert a Lead Acid Battery into an Alkaline Battery
John
I can confirm this as well. Have done tests over the past year with LAB's converted to alum with very good results. I was going to start new thread about it. Plates are clean and batteries perform very well. I found quite easy way to get rid of acid. These converted batteries can run forever and I think they would work well as solar storage bank. I noticed that they can be taken down more than before (with acid) without any harm thous, having wider range of operation. I would love to hear your 2 cents about that John, since you have done more tests. I don't see any con's but all pro's in such conversion.

Thanks
Vtech
__________________
'Get it all on record now - get the films - get the witnesses -because somewhere down the road of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened'

General D.Eisenhower


http://www.nvtronics.org
Reply With Quote
  #3019  
Old 02-22-2012, 10:14 AM
John_K John_K is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 550
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck H View Post
Carlos, download Windows movie maker from Microsoft. It is free. Very easy to use. Thats what I use when I,m on the pc. Else what Jim stated for Macs, Ipods etc....
Hey Chuck,

Thanks I googled Windows Movie Maker and was disappointed to see that you could only download it for Vista or Win7 and I'm still on XP.

But, I found out that if you are running XP with SP2 (which I am) it's already installed. Just went to Start>Programs>Windows Movie Maker and bingada bangada boom.

Now what did I do with that bleach?


John K.
__________________
http://teslagenx.com
Reply With Quote
  #3020  
Old 02-22-2012, 01:54 PM
plengo plengo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 281
I opened some few months old cells that I have running non stop without oscillators. They were cells using only alum + Mg + water.

They were totally corroded. I also have cells using alum with different mixes such as carbon and they are fine so far.

Alum with the wrong mixture becomes very corrosive to Mg. So one has to be careful with it.

I have made so far 50 or so formulas all variations of carbon, sand, alum and so on with different quantities and observing the results. So it is difficult to pin point so far if alum is the sole cause of corrosion. I think Bedini is right.

To give an empirical example, I have cells that are simply Sand, Carbon and Mg no alum. Probably (on top of my head) about 20 different combination of quantities and they are all running. Some run very well and some don't. Some corrode and some don't. The best so far combination has been 50% sand, 50% carbon with the grain not too fine. Very little corrosion if any and good power.

A little variation from that and it just does not work well. It is that sensitive. A little tiny amount of alum SOLUTION (about 99% water) boost the cells output tremendously without visible corrosion.

My Mg is not pure it is like 97% Mg and 3% a composite of Zinc and many stuff. So that makes a HUGE difference too.

Too much alum kills the cell, too little does not work well. Too much carbon does not work, too little either. Just sand works but the cell dies pretty fast, too little does not help.

Too much silica kills the cell in hours. So it is all about the relationship of each element and how they help each other. It is not just chemistry here. Much more than that.

Another observation is that when I have very little alum it grows much faster too its crystal structure than when just pure alum, very strange.

My best cell has been 50% Sand, 50% carbon, Mg with Iron Pyrite (1 mm tick around the Mg) using Sodium Silicate 40% as the glue. Water as much as you want and a tiny little amount of Alum solution 99% water.

This cell loves water while ALL OTHER FORMULAS so far hates too much water. Very strange again.

Fausto.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #3021  
Old 02-22-2012, 03:16 PM
cgalvisardila cgalvisardila is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Bedini View Post
cgalvisardila.
Look I have always used the copper treated and I have also always used very expensive magnesium in my cells My favorite cells are the Alum cells, I did not have any luck with Graphite or Carbon as I did not see what the group did with the power. The graphite has always plugged up and the same for the carbon. These are my findings. The only reason the magnesium is gone is some galvanic action is taking place. Now the only thing different is that I'm running My oscillator circuit which I know returns back to the Alum cell. But I think Fausto has said the same thing in advise he gave someone here about oscillators. The Magnesium if pure should not do that, unless you are using some contaminated water in the mix of which I have found to be true. What Alum are you using as I use the food grade only. I do not agree with Ibpointless about using jelly of any kind as that is not the answer here to this problem. I have not had that happen and we run the cell day and night. The normal rate of Galvanic action is around 1 to 2% in a bad condition but as this happens it changes the mixture and it becomes very caustic to the magnesium and it eats away very fast almost as if you added table salt. so as this takes place you should see good power from the cell and then it will just die.
The next thing is how could you smell that if everything was new , did you use a carbon pole from a old carbon zinc battery? If you did you have caused the problem. If you do that then you must clean it and bake it and clean it again. soak over night in hot water rinse the next mooring and do it again until nothing is left.
John B
well.... i think i have brain pain... im using the activated carbon, (which claims to be pure) not the battery carbon, im also using the food grade alum as you said, i sensed the amonia smell as i added water... it does not happen with the rochelle-epsom+carbon mix... fausto had the same results, very strange. i try to replicate as accurate as i can but it is not always possible... i would love to get the pure elements but alfa aesar does not ship to individuals, they only ship to labs and companies, not residential addresses. the mg im using claims to be 98% pure, the new one i got from a company that fausto recomended... it lasts very long unlike the ribbon, which on some cells it lasts for months and in others corrodes by the next day... i have seen some strange things as well, for example, using the same mix and the same build on 4 cells, they all behave different, and its the exact same mix with the exact same elements... thanks john for the advice, cheers

carlos
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #3022  
Old 02-22-2012, 03:19 PM
b_rads b_rads is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Alabama, South East U.S.
Posts: 207
@Ibpointless:
I must respectfully disagree with your findings that oxygen is a bad thing. I am coming from from the experience of galvanic cells, so if you disagree with me, that is quite OK.
From the site:
Chem1 Electrochemistry: Electrochemical corrosion

Pitting corrosion
Most metals are covered with a thin oxide film which inhibits anodic dissolution. When corrosion does occur, it sometimes hollows out a narrow hole or pit in the metal. The bottoms of these pits tend to be deprived of oxygen, thus promoting further growth of the pit into the metal.
Attached Images
File Type: gif PittingCorrosion.gif (5.7 KB, 17 views)
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #3023  
Old 02-22-2012, 03:56 PM
John_Bedini's Avatar
John_Bedini John_Bedini is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hayden Lake, ID, USA
Posts: 914
Most metals are covered with a thin oxide

Quote:
Originally Posted by b_rads View Post
@Ibpointless:
I must respectfully disagree with your findings that oxygen is a bad thing. I am coming from from the experience of galvanic cells, so if you disagree with me, that is quite OK.
From the site:
Chem1 Electrochemistry: Electrochemical corrosion

Pitting corrosion
Most metals are covered with a thin oxide film which inhibits anodic dissolution. When corrosion does occur, it sometimes hollows out a narrow hole or pit in the metal. The bottoms of these pits tend to be deprived of oxygen, thus promoting further growth of the pit into the metal.
b rads,
That is why I disagree also. We could take this further as I have also seen impieties in the metal that generate little currents in the pits. as the impurities produce a type of acid gets stronger and stronger and then metal goes real fast. Thanks for posting that. The oxide really does not hurt anything as I have seen.
John B
__________________
John Bedini
www.johnbedini.net
Reply With Quote
  #3024  
Old 02-22-2012, 05:40 PM
ibpointless2 ibpointless2 is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 829
Quote:
Originally Posted by b_rads View Post
@Ibpointless:
I must respectfully disagree with your findings that oxygen is a bad thing. I am coming from from the experience of galvanic cells, so if you disagree with me, that is quite OK.
From the site:
Chem1 Electrochemistry: Electrochemical corrosion

Pitting corrosion
Most metals are covered with a thin oxide film which inhibits anodic dissolution. When corrosion does occur, it sometimes hollows out a narrow hole or pit in the metal. The bottoms of these pits tend to be deprived of oxygen, thus promoting further growth of the pit into the metal.
I respect your disagreement and you do bring up a good point.

Some metals don't need oxygen to rust. It looks like theirs many types of corrosion.

"Rusting is the common term for corrosion of iron and its alloys, such as steel. Many other metals undergo equivalent corrosion, but the resulting oxides are not commonly called rust." Rust - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

oxidising is just another form of corrosion. Some metals develop a oxide layer like aluminum to protect it. The oxide layer is not reactive but can allow electrons to flow. The oxide layer on aluminum is great! but magnesium oxide is not so great, its not conductive. "MgO is used as an insulator in industrial cables" Magnesium oxide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

@bedini, the jelly is not that great. It does help stop corrosion but its just not that great. Bubbles still show up over time but it was a fun test to do and I hope its given me some in-sight for future builds.
__________________
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. - Arthur Schopenhauer
Reply With Quote
  #3025  
Old 02-22-2012, 06:56 PM
Lidmotor's Avatar
Lidmotor Lidmotor is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,011
One other BIG mistake to avoid

@All
There is another BIG mistake that I have made that should be avoided---not carefully recording the exact makeup of the cells and the steps in the build. I now have a cell that has run way way longer than it should have and I don't know the exact elements in it. It was a sloppy mistake. Trying to go backward now and guess what I did could have been avoided with a few notes on a piece of paper.

I wonder how many great inventions have been lost this way when the inventor made this one BIG mistake-----and then couldn't replicate the experiment.


Lidmotor

PS----The cell is a copper / zinc alloy with (I think) epsom salt and calcium cloride--and maybe something else. The copper was heated red hot and cooled several times. Regular tap water was used. It is running a reed switch pulse motor and has been for weeks. It is probably a simple galvanic situation but it has run much longer than it should have. Two milliliters of water every few days keeps it going.
__________________
 

Last edited by Lidmotor; 02-22-2012 at 07:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3026  
Old 02-22-2012, 07:06 PM
plengo plengo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lidmotor View Post
@All
There is another BIG mistake that I have made that should be avoided---not carefully recording the exact makeup of the cells and the steps in the build. I now have a cell that has run way way longer than it should have and I don't know the exact elements in it. It was a sloppy mistake. Trying to go backward now and guess what I did could have been avoided with a few notes on a piece of paper.

I wonder how many great inventions have been lost this way when the inventor made this one BIG mistake-----and then couldn't replicate the experiment.


Lidmotor

PS----The cell is a copper / zinc alloy with (I think) epsom salt and calcium cloride--and maybe something else. The copper was heated red hot and cooled several times. Regular tap water was used. It is running a reed switch pulse motor and has been for weeks. It is probably a simple galvanic situation but it has run much longer than it should have. Two milliliters of water every few days keeps it going.
I know exactly what you mean.

Once I invented this propulsion neo-introstatic fission emulsive reactant degenerative probiabolic themoimploder that created 100mW of power in only 1 meter square of space. BUT, silly me I did not write it down and lost it.

Fausto.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #3027  
Old 02-22-2012, 07:23 PM
NickZ's Avatar
NickZ NickZ is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 894
Guys:
I have a little something to add concerning carbon, water, and oxydation.
I opened up some more of my dry pure carbon cells that use only the aluminum capacitor cans, and beach wood carbon, and carbon rods, to see whats up with the lower voltage levels now. I found that there was practically no oxidation, so I look further and test the carbon rods to see that they are still conducing just fine. But, I find that by adding a few drops of water to the dead cells, they are brought back to life, again.
So, the carbon is not plugging up as I had thought, nor contaminating, nor are the aluminum cans oxidizing much (very little), but the carbon is simply drying out, even in hermetically sealed cells.
The few drops of water restored the cells to their ORIGINAL output levels.
I never added water when making the cells, so somehow the carbon is further drying out or the water is being used up, once inside the cells.
Right now I placed all my cells in a water bath, I wish that I had a little Alum to add to the water. Just to see what happens, but I don't.

@ Fausto: what kind of voltage/current levels are you getting from just carbon/sand cells, with no salts added? Have you have done that? And if so, how are they holding up?
__________________
 

Last edited by NickZ; 02-22-2012 at 07:29 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3028  
Old 02-22-2012, 07:42 PM
plengo plengo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickZ View Post
Guys:
@ Fausto: what kind of voltage/current levels are you getting from just carbon/sand cells, with no salts added? Have you have done that? And if so, how are they holding up?
I usually build 3 cells in series so that I can light 3 leds at once without oscillators. They are holding up pretty good. All running for weeks and months with very good light output. My wife forces me to hide them at night because so bright they are.

Usually 3 cells in series gives around 2.70v at 5ma when starts and settle at 1 or 2 ma. They go down very, very slowly in voltage to around 2.5v and than I add 1/10 of 1 ml of water and the whole process starts all over again like new.

Now, I do have ONE cell that I did cook and it is since then holding very steady at 1.60v and probably 1 or 2 ma running 3 LEDS (10 mm) without ever having any water added since creation (since it was cooked under the tourch).

That one is a mystery to me. I have to build more of those to see what is going on.

btw, I use Activated Carbon. This one: Walmart.com: AquaTech Carbon: Fish

Fausto.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #3029  
Old 02-22-2012, 10:53 PM
NickZ's Avatar
NickZ NickZ is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 894
Plengo:
I tried a variation of your sand/carbon 50, 50 mix. And at first I got not much difference than just the carbon gives, so I let the cell sit. This little cell is a capacitor can that is only 3/8"by 3/4". But now, an hour later it reads 1.4 volts and 1.5mA. So, not bad for such a small cell. I did not wash the salt out of the fresh wet beach sand, just to see what happens this time. At first it jumps to about 2.5mA then back off to 1.5, so very interesting results.
Thanks for the info,
Nick
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #3030  
Old 02-22-2012, 11:06 PM
chuck H's Avatar
chuck H chuck H is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 168
Nanocrystaline crystal cell

This is a 1st build of a Nanocrystaline crystal cell. The Anode is the nanocrystaline material. This is the same electrolyte material John and I have been using. I just wanted to see what this cell will do.
I will post updates on this. As the nano is iron and ferrite I assume this cell will die soon... But I have to prove it to myself.
The nanocrystaline is made by Hitachi.
Here is the video. I have not even checked amp output yet.

Nanocrystaline crystal battery. - YouTube
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Please consider supporting Energetic Forum with a voluntary monthly subscription.

Choose your voluntary subscription

For one-time donations, please use the below button.


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v1.4.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.8 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2007-2015 Copyright - Energetic Forum - All Rights Reserved

Bedini RPX Sideband Generator

Tesla Chargers