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John Bedini Discussion threads relating to John Bedini. Bedini SG, Bedini SSG, Crystal Batteries, etc...

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  #1771  
Old 03-15-2012, 09:34 PM
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minoly minoly is offline
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Originally Posted by Les_K View Post
Good, Just wanted to be sure about that. There was a lot of stuff back there about the hall magnets and switching.

Got the new wheel almost finished, Going to go get some glue and materials so it will be a few hours. But I think I am going to like this one much better.

I will go back and review the posts, I know this is all in there somewhere. And I remember going through it thouroughly. There was some debate as to whether the magnets created a turtle shell looking field or if it was re-aligned like a pie shape. I also recall that it was pretty much just like setting the dwell on a car (I did a lot of that back then...). The timing marks were lines pointing toward the center of rotation. To me that meant that they got finer toward the center and wider to the outside. I would intrepret that as meaning you were able to adjust the duration by moving in and out and the location on relation to the coils by rotating right or left.

I will go back and review in case I am missing something.
Les
Les,
this is the quote that sticks in my mind:
"it's the overlapping of the switching that is important in the dwell angle. This is equivalent to a car distributor and it better be set right."

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post117756

Patrick
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  #1772  
Old 03-15-2012, 10:17 PM
John_K John_K is offline
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Timing, timing, timing

Patrick,

Yes, that is right. Very important.

This is the picture that should give you the answer. Note the timing marks.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post117799


John K.

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Originally Posted by minoly View Post
Les,
this is the quote that sticks in my mind:
"it's the overlapping of the switching that is important in the dwell angle. This is equivalent to a car distributor and it better be set right."

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post117756

Patrick
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  #1773  
Old 03-16-2012, 03:53 AM
Les_K Les_K is offline
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Originally Posted by John_K View Post
Patrick,

Yes, that is right. Very important.

This is the picture that should give you the answer. Note the timing marks.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post117799


John K.

Well, The super glue I got for the magnets is taking forever to dry. and I ended up using 3/4". In the meantime I think what you are suggesting John, is that the timing is a 50% duty cycle. I recall JB saying so in one of the videos. But by the look of the timing magnets and the dwell angle it looks really close to 50%. But I can't say I fully understand what he meant by overlapping...

Les
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  #1774  
Old 03-16-2012, 06:17 AM
Les_K Les_K is offline
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Oh yes, I forgot this one...
http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...otor-dwell.jpg

Les
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  #1775  
Old 03-16-2012, 10:48 AM
John_K John_K is offline
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You got it!

Les,

You got it man, now just do it.

Over-lapping means he has a bigger window to play in.



John K.

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Originally Posted by Les_K View Post
Well, The super glue I got for the magnets is taking forever to dry. and I ended up using 3/4". In the meantime I think what you are suggesting John, is that the timing is a 50% duty cycle. I recall JB saying so in one of the videos. But by the look of the timing magnets and the dwell angle it looks really close to 50%. But I can't say I fully understand what he meant by overlapping...

Les
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  #1776  
Old 03-17-2012, 12:56 AM
Les_K Les_K is offline
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ouch!

Ok,

Now I will still get a timing led and we will be able to talk about the off part.

Sorry I wasn't able to respond sooner but I broke off a tooth. So for all JB has discovered, today I think the greatest discovery to mankind is novocaine Aaaahh!

Les
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  #1777  
Old 03-17-2012, 01:50 AM
John_K John_K is offline
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Timing

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Originally Posted by Les_K View Post
Ok,

Now I will still get a timing led and we will be able to talk about the off part.

Sorry I wasn't able to respond sooner but I broke off a tooth. So for all JB has discovered, today I think the greatest discovery to mankind is novocaine Aaaahh!

Les
Les, with the hall you can tell when the coil is on or off easily. A LED is not mandatory to look at the timing.


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  #1778  
Old 03-17-2012, 02:04 AM
Les_K Les_K is offline
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I found some glitter stars and mounted them. I can see the timing but the video was real bad. Anyway I can see that it fires just about where the flange of the coil starts and ends just past the flange of the coil on th eother side. This is where the cap seems to dump the fastest. However this is pulling 1.3 amps and dumps at 1.7 seconds and before I made this change It was pulling under an amp and was dumping at 1.2 seconds. So I can't say I have moved in a forward direction as of yet. I'll get a shot of the scope for you...

Les
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  #1779  
Old 03-17-2012, 02:16 AM
John_K John_K is offline
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Timing is just like the SG

Quote:
Originally Posted by Les_K View Post
I found some glitter stars and mounted them. I can see the timing but the video was real bad. Anyway I can see that it fires just about where the flange of the coil starts and ends just past the flange of the coil on th eother side. This is where the cap seems to dump the fastest. However this is pulling 1.3 amps and dumps at 1.7 seconds and before I made this change It was pulling under an amp and was dumping at 1.2 seconds. So I can't say I have moved in a forward direction as of yet. I'll get a shot of the scope for you...

Les
Les, the timing should be set just like the SG. Where does the transistor fire on the SG and where should it switch off? We've been over this on BM2.

Don't worry about the current draw for now.


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  #1780  
Old 03-17-2012, 03:33 AM
Les_K Les_K is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_K View Post
Les, the timing should be set just like the SG. Where does the transistor fire on the SG and where should it switch off? We've been over this on BM2.

Don't worry about the current draw for now.


John K.
Sorry about that, I said "firing" since everything is inverted we are looking at the off time.
Which on this machine is a little earlier than what you showed in your video.
Bedini Monopole SSG Timing - YouTube

so if you look at yours mine is firing at the edge of the flange where yours is just into the flange. But this should be about right since this is and eight pole machine right? and so I would suppose we are talking about closer to 23 degrees here.

And Yes, I read everything you had to say and appreciated it greatly.
would have commented more but I was heavy into this build.

Les
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  #1781  
Old 03-17-2012, 04:14 AM
Les_K Les_K is offline
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Here's a scope shot of the coils. I didn't realize it but I went back and looked at the picture from the conference and this looks identical.

Looking across the coils-2.mp4 - YouTube

Les
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  #1782  
Old 03-17-2012, 04:42 AM
John_K John_K is offline
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Inverted?

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Originally Posted by Les_K View Post
Here's a scope shot of the coils. I didn't realize it but I went back and looked at the picture from the conference and this looks identical.

Looking across the coils-2.mp4 - YouTube

Les
Les,

It look slike your scope shot is inverted, but that's OK.

Like the SG the transistor should switch on when the centre of the magnet is just past TDC and then switch off at 23 degrees.


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  #1783  
Old 03-17-2012, 06:44 AM
Les_K Les_K is offline
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John,
Just sent an email with a picture of mine and one from the conference.
There is a dropping off of each signal from the conference but on mine it is almost level with no curvature if that makes sense?

I'll draw a picture of the timing. It is definitely not switching like that.

Les
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  #1784  
Old 03-17-2012, 07:54 AM
Les_K Les_K is offline
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I think this is better than a picture John.
Correct timing.mp4 - YouTube

The right side is the 1/8th and the left 1/4 and it rotates counter clockwise. I can set it up to run clockwise by moving the hall. Anyway look forward to any new information and Thanks again

Les
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  #1785  
Old 03-17-2012, 09:42 AM
John_K John_K is offline
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Thanks Les

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Originally Posted by Les_K View Post
I think this is better than a picture John.
Correct timing.mp4 - YouTube

The right side is the 1/8th and the left 1/4 and it rotates counter clockwise. I can set it up to run clockwise by moving the hall. Anyway look forward to any new information and Thanks again

Les
Les, thanks for the pictures and video. I would've though you would get the fastest RPM with the way you have it tuned in the video as if I tune the same way with an SG I get the fastest RPM.

Try and tune it to the fastest RPM with 50% duty cycle and show me where the transistor turns on and off.


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  #1786  
Old 03-17-2012, 05:21 PM
Les_K Les_K is offline
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Originally Posted by John_K View Post
Les, thanks for the pictures and video. I would've though you would get the fastest RPM with the way you have it tuned in the video as if I tune the same way with an SG I get the fastest RPM.

Try and tune it to the fastest RPM with 50% duty cycle and show me where the transistor turns on and off.


John K.
Ok Check this out..
http://youtu.be/4pE1ZnEvyg0

This is when I have it set to just before the center with the given rotation. It is interesting how narrow the tuning of the hall actually becomes at this point. And what was interesting was that I began to see a slight curvature on the scope shot. But I could also tune very nicely at what point it reversed and began to kick forward. This was really cool as I could easily see at what point I was at and how close to the 23 degree mark I was. the battery went dead in the camera so I lost some of that.

Like I said the scope shot showed a slight curvature, so I added the Neo magnets and it really changed.
CorrectTimingScope.mp4 - YouTube

I would say that the curvature began to happen as part of the interferometry. since I did not see this until we got into the timing. And if there is a difference between this machine and an SG machine I would say that it would be the interaction of the interferometry.

At this point it is running nicely at about 1.2 amps and is charging quite well. I didn't get a scope shot to see what the rate of cap dump was because the batteries were pretty well depleted so I am charging them. But up to this point I would say the best this machine has done so far is about 50% efficient if that. So we will see what these changes have done.

Also as to the RPM's they are up but I haven't checked the actual speed yet. But I do know from all my experience with these machines the fastest rpm is not the best charging. the slowest is not either. 75% to 90% of the machines maximum rpm is where my best charging has been with my builds. but everyones builds do vary......

Les
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  #1787  
Old 03-17-2012, 05:38 PM
Les_K Les_K is offline
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Ooops!

This is the right video... Sorry about that....
NewTiming.mp4 - YouTube

Les
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  #1788  
Old 03-17-2012, 08:10 PM
John_K John_K is offline
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Lookin good!

Hey Les,

That's looking great!

It looks like you are pretty darn close right there.

I think it's time to just let it run and see what sort of charging and loading you get out of it.


John K.

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Ooops!

This is the right video... Sorry about that....
NewTiming.mp4 - YouTube

Les
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  #1789  
Old 03-17-2012, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les_K View Post
Ooops!

This is the right video... Sorry about that....
NewTiming.mp4 - YouTube

Les
Les, your timing looks dead on to me, the scope is identical to JB's and your dump happens exactly as JB describes that it should in DVD 28

have you played much with adjusting the mpsa06 to mjl21193 resistance? Maybe after you do a run or two...
thank you for keeping up with this and plugging away with it so we can all see and learn.
Patrick
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  #1790  
Old 03-17-2012, 10:19 PM
Les_K Les_K is offline
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John,
I will run a few cycles and see how it does. The comparator circuit is the next weak link I am sure. But hopefully we can begin to look more into the machine itself. Since it plays with the magnetic streams, I would like to find out how to see more about what is happening in terms of the interferometry.

Patrick,
I will be thinking about this as well. Essentially this would be changing the timing between the rails.

Les
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  #1791  
Old 03-17-2012, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les_K View Post

Patrick,
I will be thinking about this as well. Essentially this would be changing the timing between the rails.

Les
Sorry... what are rails?
Patrick
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  #1792  
Old 03-17-2012, 11:57 PM
Les_K Les_K is offline
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Sorry about that,
In this case I am talking about the potential difference between the MJL21193 Collectors and the MJL21194 Collectors. Or in other words looking across the coil...

http://www.energeticforum.com/132235-post1213.html

And from post #20
The currents are not important here in the front-end as this current is limited by the isolation of the power supply rails by the BEDINI/COLE switch.

In this latter case John is talking about the power rails themselves. But this is part of what I was thinking.


Les
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  #1793  
Old 03-18-2012, 01:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les_K View Post
Sorry about that,
In this case I am talking about the potential difference between the MJL21193 Collectors and the MJL21194 Collectors. Or in other words looking across the coil...

http://www.energeticforum.com/132235-post1213.html

And from post #20
The currents are not important here in the front-end as this current is limited by the isolation of the power supply rails by the BEDINI/COLE switch.

In this latter case John is talking about the power rails themselves. But this is part of what I was thinking.


Les
got it :-)
while the timing can definitely be changed, there is a fairly large window for amplifying the signal without influencing the timing or input.
Patrick
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  #1794  
Old 03-19-2012, 04:53 PM
Ron Chase Ron Chase is offline
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Patrick,

When you get ready to run your big wheel try this cap dump circuit. It's similar to what John K posted awhile back just different components. It works well on my 5 foot wheel.

Ron
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Modified Bedini Cole Circuit and Cap Dump 3-19-12.pdf (23.8 KB, 137 views)
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  #1795  
Old 03-19-2012, 05:01 PM
Ron Chase Ron Chase is offline
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Originally Posted by Les_K View Post
Ok Check this out..
http://youtu.be/4pE1ZnEvyg0

This is when I have it set to just before the center with the given rotation. It is interesting how narrow the tuning of the hall actually becomes at this point.Les
Les K.

Add a small load to the shaft of your wheel and that will make the hall adjust a little less sensitive. The load represents the regauging motor load on JB's wheel and is necessary for final tuning. You can optimize for max torque at the shaft, minimum current draw and maximum charging.\

Ron
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  #1796  
Old 03-19-2012, 06:59 PM
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Interesting

Atomic Feng Shui - What a Magnet Is and Why Part 6 - (SEE DOCUMENT IN THE DESCRIPTION) - YouTube
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  #1797  
Old 03-20-2012, 06:11 PM
Les_K Les_K is offline
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On to the Gen....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Chase View Post
Les K.

Add a small load to the shaft of your wheel and that will make the hall adjust a little less sensitive. The load represents the regauging motor load on JB's wheel and is necessary for final tuning. You can optimize for max torque at the shaft, minimum current draw and maximum charging.\

Ron
Ron,
I have some ideas for that, I thought a lot about air core, but that's not going to do it.
I think I have found my answer. But have some testing to do.

Les
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  #1798  
Old 03-20-2012, 10:17 PM
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Ron,
Thanks for uploading that schematic. That's a nice compilation of the ckt and dump!

Les,
do you have one of these laying around?
Free Three Phase Alternator - YouTube
might be a nice add on for a load :-)

back to work for me...
Patrick
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  #1799  
Old 03-21-2012, 01:55 AM
Les_K Les_K is offline
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Patrick,
Nice, I'll have to look for one of those.

Les
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:59 AM
Les_K Les_K is offline
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Originally Posted by John_K View Post
Hey Les,

That's looking great!

It looks like you are pretty darn close right there.

I think it's time to just let it run and see what sort of charging and loading you get out of it.


John K.
John K,

Ok I had a small problem I was able to fix. It's funny we didn't catch it earlier.
The two outside coils should create a south when the Center creates a north. I reversed the wires on the outside coils and the charging has improved quite a bit. I am probably at about an 80% to 90% efficient machine. So there is still some work to do. I am pretty sure a lot of those losses are in my comparator circuit.

As concerning the what happens when we switch off I ran into this video
Magnetic Monopole - YouTube

As I think about the outer coils being south and the center north, as well as why you wanted to get into what happens when the SSG switches off, I am beginning to see something new about the streams and how they are being separated. I think this relates to the videos at coral castle JB posted as well. What do you think?

Les
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