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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 07-23-2010, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
I find TIP31C+TIP32C combo perform much better with the price of one 2N3055. The transistor has less ampere rating than 2N3055, but I never need high ampere rating because my circuit run under 2 Amp. BD313 (2SB507?) is better than 2N3055 too.

As long as I never spark connection to the charged battery, it survive. At 3V input my TIP31C+TIP32C circuit jolt me real good when I forget to increase the resistance. Three brand of 2N3055 I try can not run at 3V.

If you can get a broken computer power suply at the price of 2N3055, it contain then transistor I mention. My best is KSC5027. But TT2188 or 2SC3866 is not so bad either. Still much much better than 2N3055.
I got a lot of brand new tip 31 transistors, but I thought that 2n3055 is better
substitution for mjl21194 because all schematics refer to 2n3055 instead of
mjl21194, only one time I saw on one croatian energetic forum that one
guy advise tip 31, but I thought he wants to be greater chatolic than pope
himself, so I neglected his advise...NOw that you told me the same thing...
Thank you again, that is why this forum is, isnt it ?

Can you specifie which diodes you use instead of 4007 ?
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2010, 01:16 AM
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I do my first with 2N3055 too .

Quote:
Originally Posted by cikljamas View Post
Can you specifie which diodes you use instead of 4007 ?
I use FR302 / FR304 taken from broken power supply . But you should always try any diode you have with amp meter in series with the load, or volt meter in parallel with the load. Always use the actual load because different load may give different result.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2010, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sucahyo View Post
I do my first with 2N3055 too .

I use FR302 / FR304 taken from broken power supply . But you should always try any diode you have with amp meter in series with the load, or volt meter in parallel with the load. Always use the actual load because different load may give different result.
By the chance I just have one broken power supply in the garage, after I
finish this post Im gonna check tip31, and those diodes if they are there,
if they were not then you should beware of me ...

NOw something seriously : Do you have OU with yours devices, or anything
like that, i mean, anything close to that and if you dont what makes you
content with yours ssgs ?

Last edited by cikljamas : 07-24-2010 at 09:43 AM. Reason: grammar correction
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2010, 11:37 AM
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PROGRESS IS OUR MOST IMPORTANT PRODUCT...
YouTube - Jones...Tom Jones.
there are those kinds of Tom Joneses, i think i am one of them as
we just saw, but there are those kinds of Tom Joneses who realy
know how to sing like this :
YouTube - With These Hands (Live)
I would like to meet one of them...
Look this croatian concept :
http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...d=127997091 2
Yesterday on the news was how croatian banks refused to invest in this
project, but i am not suprised, because none of croatian banks are not
any more croatians, mafia knows his job...
But there is another interesting news, croatian guy made something very
similar to Stan Mayers invention, and he said that it is Teslas idea...
This is that guy :
http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...d=128009009 4
Sucahyo, there is no tip 31 in that broken simetry, pardon, broken power sup.

Last edited by cikljamas : 01-15-2011 at 01:36 AM.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2010, 01:16 PM
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The transitor only need to have good Gain (Beta), TIP41C is far better than 31C (higher max amps). There is a good ones for inductances but have low Beta so your Trigger coils can not switch on. BD243C = TIP41C.

Look for transistors NPN for audio amplifiers, there is another options but I don't know if sacrify performance by putting a little 2n2222 with a E13007 as power in darlington mode, works for me but repeat I don't know if sacrifice some performance.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2010, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patmac View Post
The transitor only need to have good Gain (Beta), TIP41C is far better than 31C (higher max amps). There is a good ones for inductances but have low Beta so your Trigger coils can not switch on. BD243C = TIP41C.

Look for transistors NPN for audio amplifiers, there is another options but I don't know if sacrify performance by putting a little 2n2222 with a E13007 as power in darlington mode, works for me but repeat I don't know if sacrifice some performance.
Thank you very much Patmac, this kind of knowledge belongs to those who
we can call real experts, I am glad and I am grateful for giving me opportunity
to learn from you and all Patmacs who cross my way (what kind of english
is that ? haha)...As soon as I saw your post I jumped on my yamaha 600
and took off to shop and bought 16 (they had 22 all together) bd243c ...
I know from other electronic projects that it would be funny (or even stupid)
if i tried with 2n2222 or something like that, darlington is darlington, and
it is not comperable at all...
Thank you again, and thank you twice, once for sucahyo and once for me,
but even once for all those who dont have enough money for mjl21194 and
didnt know what is second the best...
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 07-25-2010, 10:54 AM
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Someone may be surprised why im so pleased with such advices as it
is Patmac advice about BD243c...If you are one of those wonderers
look this page and see did you know all this :
Transistors
I didnt, but i will, because im going to print this page and learn this
concept, so if ssg is for learning than here we are, we are learning...
This is also pdf that we beginners should read and remember :
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h13.pdf
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 07-25-2010, 12:05 PM
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OK, i didnt learn all about transistors from pages above but i went
to alldatasheet and im confused now :

2N3055 : DC current Gain : 4.0 A
Power dissipation : 115 W
base current : 7 A

BD243C : dc current Gain : 0.3 A
power dissipation : 65 W
base current : 2 A

TIP31 : dc current gain : ?
power dissipation : 40 W
base current : 1 A

Now if all three can switch the triger coil, and we are looking for that one
which drain less power and save energy from the batterie which one of these
is going to be ?
Btw, 2n3055 and tip31 works fine with potenciometer set at 5.3 kohms - coil (860 winds),but with bd243c i must set pot. at most 1.2 kohms, otherwise
flywheel - rotor is beginning to dramaticly slow down...
am i missing something ?
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 07-25-2010, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cikljamas View Post
OK, i didnt learn all about transistors from pages above but i went
to alldatasheet and im confused now :

2N3055 : DC current Gain : 4.0 A
Power dissipation : 115 W
base current : 7 A

BD243C : dc current Gain : 0.3 A
power dissipation : 65 W
base current : 2 A

TIP31 : dc current gain : ?
power dissipation : 40 W
base current : 1 A

Now if all three can switch the triger coil, and we are looking for that one
which drain less power and save energy from the batterie which one of these
is going to be ?
Btw, 2n3055 and tip31 works fine with potenciometer set at 5.3 kohms - coil (860 winds),but with bd243c i must set pot. at most 1.2 kohms, otherwise
flywheel - rotor is beginning to dramaticly slow down...
am i missing something ?
The motor produces energy to switch the transistor, if Gain Beta is very low trigger coil generates drag and the motor is inefficient so the Sweet Spot is the higher output vs lower input.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 07-25-2010, 03:06 PM
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Thanks again Patmac, now i have to put together all these information,
and set them up in my mind, than im going to see what is the next
step towards OU...(jocke)...If Patmac with all his knowledge doesnt
have OU what i can expect of my ssgs...ufff, i feel like child when
someone broke his toy...in the meantime im going to sing this :
YouTube - JUDY GARLAND - Over the Rainbow - 1943 Command Performance
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 07-25-2010, 05:58 PM
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Sorry for this little digression but you got to see how our prime minister
speaks english, this is today top news in all croatian portals...
Dnevnik.hr - VIDEO: Kosor dońćekala turiste i opet se spetljala s engleskim
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2010, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cikljamas View Post
NOw something seriously : Do you have OU with yours devices, or anything like that, i mean, anything close to that and if you dont what makes you content with yours ssgs ?
My best are 60% efficiency measured conventionally. Around 40 times better than computer fan SSG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cikljamas View Post
Sucahyo, there is no tip 31 in that broken simetry, pardon, broken power sup.
There is transistor much better than TIP31C in broken power supply. See the heat sink close to the big electrolytic capacitor, the furthest transistor. They never same. Sometime it can also be MOSFET. Read the number, search the web. The other two usually are diode.

I don't think we should trust spec for performance. If you use low power, using high power transistor might give worse result.

Last edited by sucahyo : 07-26-2010 at 05:14 AM.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2010, 11:44 AM
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Well, that officer Rivieri is out of his mind, he woke me up with this
phone call, unbelieveble :
YouTube - Officer Rivieri Prank Call

Sucahyo, yes, there are two sinks in that broken p.s., when i pull
them out then i ll see the numbers and search the web, thanks...

But i ve got one question which i think is important because we
dont have OU, so could we come closer to OU if we put extra
coil to the rotor, yes i know the answer is yes, but details and
precise informations about that would be of great help...For
example, I showed in my post 24 picture of my generator but
i also explained that cop is very low, now is there some beter
way to produce extra energy from flywheel turning ???

Sucahyo, if i am not bothering you, could you attach whole
schematic of that diodes connections, i mean that i could
see whole picture with other ssg components, i can not
manage just with that partial schematic, or at least it
would be much more difficult...

The same thing is with that attachment of Patmac in post
16...It is not language barriere, it is more likely knowledge
barriere, sorry, but what good does it make if i pretend
that i understand something that i do not undestand ?
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2010, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cikljamas View Post
Sucahyo, if i am not bothering you, could you attach whole schematic of that diodes connections, i mean that i could
see whole picture with other ssg components, i can not manage just with that partial schematic, or at least it would be much more difficult...
I don't know much about SSG so I leave others to answer. The reason I don't draw it is because I think it would be harder to understand it.

I don't use SSG. I use my own circuit:


With around 0.5A 10V input, it charge 10V SLA with at least 0.2A. How much is yours?

I found that 1+1 > 2. I am interested to know how it add up on SSG .
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2010, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sucahyo View Post
I don't know much about SSG so I leave others to answer. The reason I don't draw it is because I think it would be harder to understand it.

I don't use SSG. I use my own circuit:


With around 0.5A 10V input, it charge 10V SLA with at least 0.2A. How much is yours?

I found that 1+1 > 2. I am interested to know how it add up on SSG .
The reason you dont draw it is because you think it would be harder to undertand it, am i stupid blonde or that is another way to say that :
it would be easyer to understand it if you do not drew it ? But even
now that you drew this part i do not understand much, but never mind...

I dont know how much is mine, it was that issue which we start to
discuss when i was talking about 1.6 A which is not able to charge
batterie which is in the same time drawing 0.8 A...Than you said it is
about diodes, etc...So, where we are now, at the begining ? But,
dont worry, no reason for rush, we ll figure out this stuf by the time...

As would our prime minister say, day after today im going to visit
Adriatic sea, maybe i ll meet there these guys :
YouTube - One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest - Gone Fishing
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2010, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cikljamas View Post
I dont know how much is mine, it was that issue which we start to discuss when i was talking about 1.6 A which is not able to charge batterie which is in the same time drawing 0.8 A
I am interested to know the charging current of your SSG. 1.6A and 0.8A is input current.

Connect it simple. Source battery to SSG to charged battery. Measure how many amp and volt at source battery, and how many amp and volt at charged battery. See if your is more than 40% or not.

It is very important to know your circuit efficiency.


I don't draw it completely because I am not sure if I can make clear distinction between joint and passing over with the application that I have. I can not use a big picture because I use print screen to get it. I have to cramp it down.

What previous picture means is you build four of that. Connect it all to the same source battery. The first circuit radiant output is connected to R1, second circuit to R2, and so on.

With only one, the efficiency is around 40%.

Don't use any circuit bellow because the connection is wrong!

As an example, here is the version with two:


With three (one is another circuit though)

Last edited by sucahyo : 07-27-2010 at 09:50 AM.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2010, 09:51 AM
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I edit previous post with picture.

Make sure you measure input vs output conventionally first.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2010, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
I am interested to know the charging current of your SSG. 1.6A and 0.8A is input current.

Connect it simple. Source battery to SSG to charged battery. Measure how many amp and volt at source battery, and how many amp and volt at charged battery. See if your is more than 40% or not.

It is very important to know your circuit efficiency.


I don't draw it completely because I am not sure if I can make clear distinction between joint and passing over with the application that I have. I can not use a big picture because I use print screen to get it. I have to cramp it down.

What previous picture means is you build four of that. Connect it all to the same source battery. The first circuit radiant output is connected to R1, second circuit to R2, and so on.

With only one, the efficiency is around 40%.
Well, lets try to clarify this step by step :
1. In post 44 there is schematic with three unknown points :
- what is R1. R2. R3, radiant outputs i suppose ?
- if these (R1.R2.R3) are radiant outputs where do you connect them ?
I understand bridge rectifiers (star, delta), but this is strange to me...
- what is that coil in the left upper corner ?

2. How to put together this schematic from post 44 and schematic
from the post 28 ?

One guy that sails magnets always repeat to me that i have to provide
wattmeter, hm, i have 4 multimeters, but i still didnt provide wattmeter...
In post 12 i wrote this :

Quote:
Few days ago I put my two 4 coil ssgs, each was connected
to different batterie, each of that two 4 coil ssgs drained
0.8 A, and each gave about the same value : also 0.8 A...

Now, I directed both gains from both 4 coil ssgs to just one
batterie, and the result is that I could not achive charging
of that batterie which took all of the ennergie which was
at least 1.6 A...

The questin is this : If something lose 0.8 A, and in the
same time gain double 1.6 A, how come we do not have
charging in it ?
I measured each coil of 8 (two 4 coil ssgs), and average
consumption of energy for these coils was 0.2 A...It means
that one 4 coil ssg waste 0.8 A, how i measured ?...Ampermeter
in series with positive source of primar batterie and power coil...
Output i measured that i put one side of multimetar on the
positive side of delta bridge rectifier, and other side of multimetar
on the negative side of delta bridge rectifier, and nevertheless
if that was trifiar or quadrifilar or even qintafilar coil output was
preaty much the same about 0.9, but i wrote that it was 0.8 to
be shure...
Yes, there was two batteries and both was primar batteries
but one of them in wich i directed all 8 bridge rectifiers
was charging batterie too...

Last edited by cikljamas : 07-27-2010 at 10:58 AM. Reason: add last sentence
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2010, 11:19 AM
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Aha, yes, these R1.2.3...are outputs, ok, i solved this, and i think
that i am very close to connect schematics from posts 28 and 44,
but i am not shure where to connect negative pole of source batterie
if i am looking at picture from post 28, and if i am looking at picture
from post 44 then i dont know how to connect to one source batterie
more this scematics at the same time as you suggested me...
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Old 07-28-2010, 03:01 AM
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Connect you charger using usual configuration:


Use 4 meter. Two as ampmeter, another two as voltmeter.

Notice the label. The output current is current that charging the charged battery. You connect it by putting the meter in series with the battery.

Quote:
Output i measured that i put one side of multimetar on the positive side of delta bridge rectifier, and other side of multimetar on the negative side of delta bridge rectifier
That is only valid for measuring voltage. To measure current, one side on positive of rectifier, other side to battery positive. I am guessing the battery charging current to around 0.04A each coil.



Here my circuit all in one, click the image for bigger picture:



the right circuit all use same source battery.

To implement it to your 8 coil SSG, you make it up to R8. Each R then connected to each coil end connected to transistor.

Last edited by sucahyo : 07-28-2010 at 03:31 AM.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 07-28-2010, 06:28 AM
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Thanks, Sucahyo ! Now we have your whole circuit ! I feel like our
enterprise succedeed except one little step for man, and one big
step for humankind, and that is where to transistor ? to the coil
i supose to power coil instead of positive of the primary battery ?

Quote:
That is only valid for measuring voltage. To measure current, one side on positive of rectifier, other side to battery positive. I am guessing the battery charging current to around 0.04A each coil.
Yeah, you should be right, and I should be shamed...
Now i have to go to adriatic, but when i come back we shall continue our
frienship, i hope...
Wish me to have a good trip...
Stay well !
YouTube - Once upon a time C.Cardinale :"I hope you come back someday"
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 07-28-2010, 06:31 AM
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Yes, to each coil.

Good luck .
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2010, 12:05 AM
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COP vs. Efficiency

I am curious if you guys are following the prescribed test procedures for the SSG project? What conventions/parameters for your test are you using?

These ones:
John Bedini Monopole Mechanical Oscillator Simplified School Girl SSG Presentation
John Bedini Simplified School Girl basic plans

Are there other pages?

I am interested in seeing what my build will produce.

In reading some of this, I think I would like to add this 2c for what it may be worth (possibly nothing!)

John is an amazingly generous individual for letting us have such involvement and access to his technology. It's worth noting, that: for an individual, like myself, I'd probably never get anywhere at all, with any of this, if I did not have a spot to start...

One thing I'd also like to say is that, from my understanding, efficiency is not a great concern here, and the COP potential is ambiguous at best.

I think, that is a very generous condition to let ourselves judge the SSG's COP based on the source battery.

In my case I run a lot of solar out RV'ing and in my cabin.

In "the real world" of alternative energy, you don't have a plug in the wall.

So given that:

1. To be able to judge the SSG circuit against the number of coulombs that came out of the source battery is more than fair, because:

a. rarely is the case you'd ever charge a 12v battery, with a 12v battery, and if you did you'd need DC-DC transformation (more loss?) and a dead source battery before you saw full charge?

It would almost be more fair to compare your COP to another known way, and it's complete power consumption requirement whilst charging the 12v battery. For example if you get COP=.8 against the known source coulombs, that still does not mean you can magically make X number of coulombs transfer across from one battery to another... and all the while, have your only other charger (say solar) doing work simultaneously on another bank... or the source itself...

in the case of the solar array hitting the source battery and thus the SSG... you are ahead of the game BIG time... because if you were to hook the small panel (outputting say 4-5a) and try to brute force charge a medium size bank, you'd get nowhere quick. Furthermore you are even free to dedicate the panels to realtime, and have the SSG run on an auxillary bank. This is significant because if your array involves 24v or 48v "re-arrangements" from time to time (powertool use for example) - your better off to get a group of batteries up to near full voltage, quickly, than dedicate solar to one or two bats.

While this method of COP is sensible and mathematically - it is generous, because it assumes that there might be another solution.

Add to that the addition of free fans while camping... and desulphation, possible battery amp-hour extension...

That's the best dang $100 on a project that any off-grid / dry camper ever spent!

Thank you John Bedini!
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2010, 05:00 AM
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FRC FRC is offline
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transistors

Does anyone know if substituting a 2n3442 or 2n3773 instead of a 2n3055
would be okay in a basic Bedini SSG circuit. I know the MJL21194 is supposed
to be better, but would the other two be better than the 2n3055 ?


FRC
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Old 12-31-2010, 06:49 AM
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sucahyo sucahyo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FRC View Post
Does anyone know if substituting a 2n3442 or 2n3773 instead of a 2n3055 would be okay in a basic Bedini SSG circuit. I know the MJL21194 is supposed
to be better, but would the other two be better than the 2n3055 ?
Sometimes we can not trust specification. But usually a newer transistor model is better than old model.

But the benefit can be unpredicatable.
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