Good morning everyone,

After watching on this video how easy it is to make a Radiant Spark with a Bedini SG, when charged cap discharges :
Bedini motor - EnergeticTube.com*-* Where technology goes LIVE!

I thought that may be some of you tried already to use the SG sparks as SOURCE OF RADIANT EVENT in a Ed Gray tube ?

Because Gray tube get 100 times multiplication of electricity, and that the most difficult part is the HV cicruit to produce the white spark, using a cap discharge from a Bedini device (SG, SSG, Solid state oscillator, switch, ...) could do the job ?!?!

Of course the spark might be much smaller than Gray's HV one, but with a 100 factor, the useful output might already be great ...


Pictures from 20* Bedini

I think the best source of information on Gray's motor/devices is from Dr Lindemann's DVDs : Free Energy, Products, Books and DVDs
He clears the circuit and shows great pictures from Tom Valentine
Cold Electricity:

from Free Energy | Edwin Gray

Some are also on Rexresearch page: Edwin V. Gray: Electromagnetic Association Motor (Pulsed Capacitance Discharge Motor, &c: US Patent # 3,890,548 )
Edwin Gray's Tube Circuit:


And several pages more here: Zero Point Energy - Edwin Gray - MDG 2007
Capacitor bank:


Conversion tubes: they are very small tubes for this 100HP motor ! Main problem is EXCESS energy

Jules, take a look at the threatd I started. I think we have similar ideas.
The pictures talk for themselves.

Obtaining radiant energy from electricity: help

@MrMagAmp
Happy to see that you found this too
Yes it's all back to Tesla tech.

As you see it's not easy to make an HV primary circuit that delivers Potentiel only ... that's why I am thinking about using a Bedini circuit to obtain it.

With 12V input Bedini circuits give 3 to 400V on output, but with 24V input it goes near the 1000V I think. It's ideal to charge caps.
And then to discharge the caps on a spark gap with a collector ring, like Gray did, to bring the radiant through the load then to ground.

We can see on Bedini's picture that the green spark is negative energy, Radiant Energy, so it might do the job to create the Radiant Event on the spark gap.
Of course we can see that after the green spark comes some current, so it's not only Radiant energy, and this might be a problem in a Gray type device.

That is what need to be cleared to answer my idea of using a Bedini circuit as primary source for HV...

The advantage is that Bedini circuits are everywhere on the internet, and many have replicated them, and got big sparks from capacitor discharges, so it could make things easy to start.
And they are quite harmless with 24V input and a small capacitor bank on the output.

Gray was using 2 Farad at 4000 V capacitors on the EMA motors, deadly for humans, but it was for a > 100HP output.
If we target a few hundreds watts output, or even 1 kw, then it might be possible to do it with a 24V Bedini circuit and a bank of capacitors in the hundreds volts range, not kV range; then it would be much less dangerous devices

If the output is 100 times the input, like with Gray's circuits, then to get 1 kW output we need only 10 Watts input
That's just 420 mA at 24 Volt. A Bedini solid state oscillator has a bigger input than that.

Didi you watch Dr Lidemann DVDs ?
I promise you will learn a lot from those DVDs about what you intend to do !!

It's all back to Tesla's discoveries, 120 years ago

Right now i got Problems with the Sparks,
because my neighbour complains, when he have sound at his cheap PC or Radio.
I think another Reason, that there are Transistor used, it supress it and dont make the Clicks.
Just a pain in the Butt, when there are Peoples, what care more about her Amusement as for Alternatives.

@Joit
Please where can I see your work ? Have you posted pictures or videos ?

The disturbing of radio might be due to RF interference, then putting the device in a Faraday cage might stop the disturbance but still permits the radiant collection to happen.

Unfortunatly i did not rebuild something like the Ed Grey Device,
but similar with a Newman Motor, where i got a open Spark over a mechanical Switch
or other Setups with Coils where Sparks appear.
But when you have a sensitive Neighbourhood, its maybe not a good Idea to experiment with it.
Something like a Faraday Cage is may a Idea, or better to decorate the Wall with Tinfoil.
But else someone maybe will get Problems with this EM active Devices.

Quote from: Bedini advanced motor - 06/08/01

"John refers to forward conversion, likening it to developing a pure potential which must be sent into a battery and cut off before actual current flows. Pure potential means a pure electric charge much like Hoopers motional field which used a moebius to cancel the magnetic component. John says he finds a PWM (pulse width modulator) circuit works best and when looking at the pulses on a scope they are exactly 180 degrees out of phase, showing 180 of electric, 180 of magnetic, alternating pulses."

Quote from Dr Lindemann's DVD "The World of Free Energy" 2h lecture from 2001.
Free Energy, Products, Books and DVDs

"Bedini energizer can give up to 6 time more output than input, while using a spark event like Gray can bring the factor to 100 times more output than input, or more ..."

Last quotation for today, confirming Lindemann in his DVD:

by John Bedini:
"Tesla new better then this, everything was in impulses and waves. He said so, Moray said the same thing , it came in in WAVES and impulses, Gray said the same thing I USE HIGH VOLTAGE SPARK DISCHARGE """PULSES""""

From Bedini advanced motor - 06/08/01

PS: @Ash: Cheers, keep one beer for me my friend
Tell me how to send some donation to Panacea please, but not to buy beer only, keep a bit of the money to buy copper wire and transistors

Voltages of a few hundred volts won´t be enough for the tube spark gap,
the distance of the electrodes would have be fractions of a millimeter.
The idea to realize something like gray´s device at lower voltages is good
though.
Bedini himself suggested this for example:

Try this experiment, take three flashlight batteries put two on one side in series and one on the other side connect the two negatives together, now between the two + poles connect a light, this is splitting the positives.This has been on my pages forever, but nobody understood it.

@Xeno
I agree that spark need HV, but after charging a 400V cap up to 150V in 1 seconde from a SG circuit, you can already make a nice spark, a small explosion.

What I mean is if there is some Radiant energy available for collection from such a SG spark, and more important I'd like to hear about people having done it already

If Gray was getting 100 HP = 75kW from 3 tube converter and 4000 V caps, it's 25kW per spark gap !!

May be we could get 50 times less = 500 Watts from a much smaller spark, 4000V / 50 = 100 V spark accumulated in a capacitor ...

I am sure some have tried, and I'd like to know it because I think it might by a way to go ?!?!

And seeing the green fat spark from Bedini's picture, we can see the Radiant charge in the cap, so it's not a classic spark IMO.
Even if the spark we are looking for is withe color, not green ...

There is people (including Bedini) who have used commutators to discharge the caps into the charge batteries, but we would for sure know it already, if that had yielded anything like your guesstimated 500 watts.
The cap discharge alone is not the secret. The method of collection with the grids of the electron´s emitted during the tube spark is the important thing.

Read Bedini´s notes on the matter and you will understand.
John Bedinis' EV Gray power conversion tube - 06/05/01

In my opinion, Bedini's battery circuit does not "split the positive". All it does is reduce the potential, with potential being "the positive". The battery circuit only has ONE branch. If you want to "split" the potential the circuit has to have at least two branches, with potential flowing through both branches from the same source. Gray did this by using a resister to DIVIDE the positive, thereby controlling how much potential flowed through each branch. Various pictures of Gray's equipment show a resister connected to one pole of the battery, with other wires bypassing the resister. This resister is built right in to his Power Conversion Tube, rather than being mounted on the battery. But it does the same thing either way. It "splits the positive" between two branches of the circuit. Gray himself said he splits the positive, with part of it going through the load and the rest going back to the battery.

@Elektrotek:
That´s interesting to actually regard the resistor as a voltage dividing component. I never considered that, because normally you would use 2 resistors to achieve that (if you dont consider the gap as a resistance and the wire resistance). Voltage divider - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I had looked at the resistor more as in his "current-resisting" function or possibly even being a negative resistor, because he used a carbon rod,
which under certain circumstances can do that (EFTV Part 3, Naudin etc.)


You are using an uncommon nomenclature by describing the potential as "flowing", i guess you meant the current or are there moving nodes in the circuit that i did not realize?

The load, in the form of the motor coil, has some resistance. In fact, I recall a Tesla patent for a Wheatstone Bridge in which he used coils for the resistors. I guess I could have said the potential "moves" through both branches, but remember I don't have any training in classical nomenclature. Still, the resistance of the arc gap has to be balanced with that of the load to ensure a proper amount of the potential goes to the load. And it does seem that there would be more than one node in the discharge from the grids. Gray used more than one grid, each of which would have a different potential due to differences in surface area. And the grids' discharge HAS to be non-classical for there to be such tremendous energy gain.

I think carbon acts as a negative resistor only when it's one or two atoms thick. Gray's carbon rod shown in the patent doesn't touch the arc. (As with Naudin's work.) And neither did the current limiting carbon block rheostat Gray actually used for a speed control. But even as a speed control, the resistor controlled how much of the potential went back to the battery.

Ah, i understand. Well technically a potential does not "move", it is the current that moves (between two potential nodes), but i understand what you mean.

There is evidently a non-linear process involved.

Since all grids are conductively connected with each other, they share the same potential node regardless of their surface area.
It is remarkable however that the distance will be crossed at the voltages used in the circuit and that different distances occur.
The nature of this process is the true unknown part of the functionality.

That is not correct. Dr. Deborah Chung uses layers of carbon and that without the presence of arcs even.
Naudin (who replicated her) had many layers of the material.
However, it is speculative if that phenomenon would play any role in gray´s device.

When Tesla described his 'radial' Radiant Energy he said that the energy placed a charge on metal surfaces it passed through. If the same amount of radial energy goes through two grids they would have the same induced charge, but the voltages would be different due to the differing capacitive surface areas the charges occupy. THEN the potential transfers to the circuit through the grid leads. This transfer is longitudinal. I see no reason the grid potentials would equalize first since the inductive nature of the interconnecting lead(s) would introduce a time constant between two grids' discharges.

In reality, potential does propagate.

Classical circuit theory certainly needs an overhaul with this device.
Especially INSIDE the tube, i agree with that also in regards to longitudinal potential vortex propagation.
Interesting to brain-storm about it here.

@Aaron
I remember your successful 'popping' magnet experiments from the Gray type spark a few months ago but I forget where it is.
Do you remember the thread it was in ?

It's in Gray Tube Replication thread.
YouTube - aaronmurakami's Channel
In first 10 vids I think.

@ Aaron,
Thanks for the answer.
Your videos are great, I see you are doing a lot in Ainslie circuit, do you see it as having a great potential for energy production ?
(I didn't look at this circuit yet, that's why I am asking you

I wish you could experiment on a full time basis, especially with the knowledge and friends that you have

Thanks and good luck.

very good idea!
or you can have insulated metal plate and connected to real ground through the load...

In my patent (4260933) I use an insulated output plate, with a tuned high frequency input plate (rather than a vibrator). However, there is no non-classical operation if the output plate is connected to earth ground. It has to use a single wire circuit with a polar mass, such as a battery, for the virtual ground. Likewise, there is no non-classical operation with Gray's Power Conversion Tube if the grids conduct current rather than pure potential.

wow, looks VERY similar to Gray's
Selective frequency optical generator - Google Patent Search

Is this whole concept like a backwards Trigatron?

A Trigatron is a type of high current switch, but my Tube produces a longitudinal electrostatic energy which doesn't have any current in the normal sense.