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  #481 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2010, 09:54 PM
nenergy nenergy is offline
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Whats the fuss about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaMonkey View Post
Some of the things John B has said are quite clear.

It is all about credibility and truthfulness.

"Show and Tell" with technical proficiency.

Ozy is indeed asking the right questions. For the benefit
of all.
I am attempting a replication of the FW, and have stumbled upon several areas that do not make sense.

1. - The alignments of the magnets is alternating polarity in JB's conference wheel, Aaron and JB now suggest N facing configuration.

2. Proper geometries is now ignored, 3 coils positioned 22.5, 0, -22.5 degrees.

3. Bloch wall shield does not apply to this configuration, the only magnet that reverses polarity to local hemisphere is a pyramid.

There's more to discuss regarding Ed with 144 code, but that thread is now shut down for reasons they say has confidential nature.

So which direction are they steering the crowd?.
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  #482 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2010, 10:47 PM
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Aaron Aaron is offline
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@seamonkey

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaMonkey View Post
Some of the things John B has said are quite clear.
The statement regarding "you will NOT see any extra
"electricity" or in the machine." is one of those.

This statement may or may not be true. He may have
made the statement as simple "protection" against
charges of fraud. John is a businessman.

For the most part John speaks in riddles. He seems
unable, or unwilling, to communicate clearly and concisely.

Regarding your statement above about the lead acid
battery - that is entirely possible. The lead acid battery
is an amazing device.

The procedures for verifying the existence of such
chemically produced "excess energy" are not complicated.
It would also be possible, for those who are experiencing
the phenomenon, to provide data verifying its existence
in the industry standard "Power Input/Power Output"
format. Even when there is some delay in actually
expending the harvested surplus energy.

What the "Thinking Man" needs to know is what sort of
performance can be attained or expected from certain
"replications" by those who are actively promoting their
own devices and/or technologies.

What is the point of entering the "show and tell"
competitive atmosphere of this forum if there is no
desire to offer competent "proof" of claims?

There is no need to provide details of the device which
the experimenter chooses to consider "secret;" but if
they are making "show and tell" claims by means of their
video productions they should at least be prepared to
offer operational parameters in a technically acceptable
form which would enable the forum at large to make
informed choices.

It is all about credibility and truthfulness.

"Show and Tell" with technical proficiency.

Ozy is indeed asking the right questions. For the benefit
of all.
When John says you won't see the extra electricity from
the machine, he means it. It is true and anyone can hook
meters to the machine and see based on what the meters
show that there is nothing showing in excess compared
to what is going in. However, the battery shows something
different after it is "conditioned". Most people will not see
a gain - most will see rejuvenation and longer load powering
ability beyond what any conventional charger can do.

That alone is priceless and I would consider that a NEW
breakthrough technology that he has shown for years and
that people can buy. "Overunity" or not is irrelevant when
it comes to these EnergenX chargers. They can keep
countless millions of batteries in service that would be
otherwise thrown out. This is just the practical facts about
what these chargers are supposed to be and what they
do. They do as claimed.

Now Jeff has his own unique methods for what he does
with the output of the 10 coiler and he is doing what I
haven't seen other do. I don't completely understand it
but in my perspective, I'd just buy one built right instead
of trying to figure it out on my own. I can build some pretty
good battery chargers with these circuits but the chargers
I use I buy from EnergenX.

In any case, these chargers are absolutely a new breakthrough
technology as they are potential chargers and not current
chargers. This is of course completely different than pulse
chargers or other variations that simply chop current into smaller
punches, etc... they're not even in the same category.

You also have to consider that what the meter shows is not
what the machine is running on. The meter shows what is
being lost while the circuit is actually running on magnetic
current and the "amperage" is an incidental loss from the
line resistances, etc...

I'm confident that the electron current model of electricity is
completely false and I recognize this as an irrefutable fact when
looking at the scientific evidence and it is up to you and everyone
else to search the references and not just evidence but proof that
the model is flawed. So what you see on the meter is not what
you think it is. The current measured is an effect and is NOT the
cause.

I'm not going to argue the principles of electricity in this thread but
I post the above to show there is a sound premise behind the
belief systems of some of those that have a different insight into
not just the machines but of electricity in and of itself. it challenges
most people's belief systems that are trained in conventional
principles.

The lead acid battery is a profound device. It is a water fuel cell
and it breaks or makes a water molecule depending on it if it
providing power or receiving a charge.

It is thought that only "hot" electron current can charge the battery.
This is not so. Those lead ions can move in charging mode by simply
hitting it with impulses of potential (like the inductive spike of high
potential and little to theoretically no current) and the short width
is evidence of no work there for practical purposes as all the TIME
is locked up inside of that voltage potential spike.

You supply that TIME POTENTIAL to something like a lead acid battery
and you wind up getting the time out of it in the form of work. Potential
in and work out.

Doesn't matter if anyone gets the time charge concept, it literally is
the potential for time to exist in my mind... but to the point - the lead
ions once moving in charging mode only needs voltage potential to keep
them moving in that charging mode without any real current.

This is just my interpretation of what is going on and is not necessarily
indicative of John B's belief or how he would explain it... just my viewpoint.
So I don't want anyone thinking I'm speaking for John, just myself.

In any case, an elephant that gets walking will keep walking when you
spike it's butt with a small impulse from a bullwhip. Not a perfect analogy
but a little bit can get a bit thing moving. Once the merry go round is
spinning, you can just hit it with your pinky to keep it going in that
direction. Anyway, this is a potential charge and why these spikes can
directly charge a battery without running current through them and they
will boil without all the heat that is normally associated with an equivalent
charging rate from a conventional hot current charger. It desulfates and
rebuilds the plates in a way that no other chargers ever have.

I have charged the batteries with these machines, disconnected them
from the machine and the batteries continue to charge for an hour. REAL
CHARGE. Those lead ions are so heavy they have serious momentum and
that momentum will continue for a while giving the battery a real charge
when there is no circuit attached to provide any current. I doubt you
can get this same benefit with a hot charger as any hot charger I've ever
used and disconnected from a battery follows with an instant drop
on the voltage and not a continuous charge up.

I admit I have only done this when I capture the spikes in a cap and
discharged the cap in impulses with a mechanical switch. That was the
first time I calculated about 1.5 cop almost 10 years ago. The second
time with these circuits was with an inverted solid state cap discharger
about 5 years ago.

You may think there is nothing new about taking spikes and cultivating
them in a cap and that would be true as Tesla was filling caps to the
top with one single spike but using it as a battery charging technology
with all these benefits that someone can buy "off the shelf" I think is
a new breakthrough and a profound one at that - one of the best
green off-the-shelf technologies in the world and certainly THE best
in its own category of battery chargers.

It should be easy enough for anyone to put a current sensing resistor like
0.25 ohms on the negative rail of the input battery. Put a scope across it
and use a data recording scope to log the dc mean and calculate the
joules drawn over x amount of time. I don't have the tektronix 3054c at
my disposal anymore but it can do 10,000 samples per screen shot. Those
can be dumped to a spreadsheet and sorted and can be analyzed on a
per waveform basis or calculated out over time to see exactly how many
joules of energy were expended from the input.

Then turn off the machine and disconnect the secondary battery and
draw a load at the right rate (c20 is probably what most people will
scream about) and also with a current sensing resistor and do the same
data capture until that battery is down to the voltage where it was
before it received a charge. Use a resistive load on this battery instead
of an inductive load.

That is an honest integrated power analysis I believe and will show
input joules vs output joules from the BATTERY and NOT measuring
what is at the output wires while the machine is running. You can
only honestly measure output AFTER battery is charged to see what
comes out of it. DO NOT MEASURE OUTPUT OF MACHINE WHILE RUNNING.
The output of the machine is DISCONNECTED from what the battery
will show. They are not locked together as it is not a closed system.

THEN, as a bonus, measure the mechanical work while the machine is
running and add those joules of work to what you get out of the
secondary battery.

The results will be less with smaller machines and larger with larger
machines. If you put two objects side by side on a table, there is
gravitational influence between them almost impossible to measure but
will be there. But look at the earth and moon, it becomes not only
apparent but undeniable.

When I met John 10 years ago or so, he said build it with a wagon wheel
and make the coil the size of a coffee can. I could only build as big as
my budget allowed. Bottom line is that if people want bigger results then
build big machines.

John's biggest secret about these SG circuits is that THERE IS NO SECRET.
It has been out in the open for years before 99% of most people ever
heard of "free energy" including myself. Now there may be some
proprietary info on the circuits that belongs to his company and he can't
share those because they're company property but what is out in the open
gives results as claimed.

In my opinion, what the "thinking man" needs to know first is what the
difference is between a man thinking and a thinking man but that's another
topic. But distinctions of frames of references, etc... are necessary for
people to get around what they already think in terms of the very
fundamentals that people use as their premise for observing all of this
from, which if based on conventional electron theory models and
conventional thermodynamics is completely wrong.

In any case, I agree with you that people should at least get a scope
and a data logging one if possible.
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  #483 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2010, 09:07 PM
Plazma Plazma is offline
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Its a Start . . .

Greetings All,

After some 'soak' time post-conference, I'd like to share some very rudimentary and early-on charging findings ref Bedini's Tesla Solar-Kick Amp in charging some 'modest' batteries. Here's the setup underway:

I'm feeding about 300 watts off of my solar array (on average) to the Tesla unit. It is charging a pair of Solar-1 880 amp-hr batteries connected in parallel and doing, what appears to be, a masterful job of pushing them up the charge curve. I started this current test at 8 AM (fairly low light) with the batteries at 12.75 volts. At noon the voltge read 13.2-13.3 with pulses on my analog ammeter of about 10 amps peak. During the time from 9-noon I was selecting various combinations of solar panels so as to keep the ammeter readings below 10 amps peak (quite variable ambient light conditions this time of year). Right now, as I type, the light conditions are waning so I have all the panels active and I'm seeing ammeter pulses that peak at about 3-4 amps, or so. Voltage is up to 13.3 + volts. Right at noon I shut down for an hour so as to give the rig a rest and resumed charging at 1PM. The restart voltage after resting an hour had settled down to 13.05 volts.

While its really early in testing, I'm pleased at the progress. I'm trying to be cautious and rest the batteries a lot and also not push the Tesla unit too much as I'm just beginning to get a feel of things. For example, I'll soon shut down and let the batteries rest overnight and resume testing tomorrow AM. I noticed during today's test that the case of the Tesla unit was cold to the touch with no apparent heat rise at the conditions being tested. Once I finish this initial charge I will run hydroometer tests on the individual battery cells as part of their baseline characterization.

And, speaking of cold, it was very cold last night and all day today and we'll have a frigid night tonight, too. So, it will be interesting to see how the batteries behave overnight.

As an aside, the pair of batteries under test are the supply or excitation batteries I will use on my 10-coiler. I held off finishing the 10-coiler because of the conference which was just terrific. I have 3 more pairs of Solar-1's rated at 880 Amp Hrs each that will be charged by the 10-coiler. I may do initial equalization charges on those battery sets using the Tesla unit, too - depends on how thing go the next few days.

Also, I use double-pole knife switches on custom panels that I built so as to isolate, select, and route the various energy pathways between all of the elements in my system. The batteries are in their own enclosure adjacent to the lab. All battery cables are isolated and fused. The cables run into the lab via 3-inch pvc pipes that interconnect the lab and battery box.

Here's hoping for sunny days,

Plazma
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  #484 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2010, 09:26 PM
Bill H Bill H is offline
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Great to hear. I have been considering a tesla p.v amp purchase myself as I have my horse barn on a little off grid system. Which model of the tesla p.v amp are you running?
Bill H.
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  #485 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2010, 01:51 AM
Plazma Plazma is offline
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Tesla Amp model # request . . .

@Bill H~

The Tesla charger I have here is the Model# SL-S30A-12/24 . . .

and, I just checked the battery voltage and its now reading 12.89
volts after resting for about 4 hrs. The batteries are still connected
to the output of the Tesla unit - wonder if there is some leakage or
minor drain effect? Thats about a 0.3 volt drop from the average
charging voltage observed just before I disconnected the solar
panels from the Tesla unit.

We'll see what tomorrow brings

Plazma
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  #486 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2010, 05:52 AM
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ren ren is offline
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sounds sweet Plazma

You will be having alot of fun assembling that.

Regards
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  #487 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2010, 11:40 AM
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theremart theremart is offline
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RE: Tesla charger

Plazma, sounds very interesting.

I believe there is a thread already for the Tesla solar chargers, you might want to post your results there to keep this thread on topic.


Many like me are wanting to see real world tests of the unit and have comparisons of how it stacks up verses standard chargers.

Thanks for sharing your results with us, glad it is working for you.

Mart
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  #488 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2010, 04:42 PM
Plazma Plazma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theremart View Post
Plazma, sounds very interesting.

I believe there is a thread already for the Tesla solar chargers, you might want to post your results there to keep this thread on topic.


Many like me are wanting to see real world tests of the unit and have comparisons of how it stacks up verses standard chargers.

Thanks for sharing your results with us, glad it is working for you.

Mart
@Mart~

Point taken about the thread issue. My rationale in mentioning the Tesla charger here is that it is just part of a larger context in support of the 10-coiler effort that I am pursuing. Here's where I'm headed and why:

First, Bedini has stated many times and in many ways that the 'magic' is in the batteries - so, I have some decent-sized batteries in an effort to get to a scale of operation that will give large enough numbers (I hope, for me) to secure clear distinctions in performance;

Secondly, the 10-coiler might offer a scale of 'charging' or excitation sufficient to move these batteries I have in a (hopefully) quite positive direction - and possibly quite far beyond what the Tesla charger might do (I will get the numbers - time will tell);

Third, I opined that using a modest amount of solar on the front end possibly gets me a few moderately positive effects - that is, 1) sceptics and nay sayers cannot say that I am using 'grid-derived' power in any way to get any energy gains, if any - 2) If I am able to somehow leverage the solar contribution so as to get net positive energy gains by 2 phases of 'charging/amplification' in succession (i.e., first Tesla, then 10-coiler), the COP should be somewhat stunning - so the Tesla unit works on the solar to provide 10-coiler excitation energy and the 10-coiler drives 3 sets of big storage batteries - 3) I get an experience base in working hands-on with solar - 4) I get an experience base in working hands-on with grid-tie when it comes time to dump energy from my big power batteries back to the grid. By hands on I mean that I have personaly constructed every physical piece of the infrastructure it takes to interconnect and manage this system.

By using the power measuring equipment distributed throughout the physical complex that, in addition to the utility company power meter, includes a T.E.D. system at the utility feed and a separate T.E.D. system at my grid-tie points in the Lab, will (hopefully) give me accurate enough measurements month-to-month to track the impact of what is an integrating type of system over time. All of this is computerized.

It has taken most of the year to build all of what I'm now describing including a new lab to house all of the equipment, the battery enclosure, the solar stand/foundation that supports a 1400 sq ft solar array, and so forth.

So, this is the context of my 'lonely' Tesla charger - just a part, albeit an important part, of a large system that also includes a 10-coiler under construction. As for which thread, maybe I do not belong on this thread either even though a 10-coiler is a major part of what I'm working on. Also, I will be using 10-coiler generated waves in other experiments having to do with catalysts and other chemical systems in the future. If the moderators decide to boot me out of here, then let me know - if not here. . . where?

Plazma
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  #489 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2010, 05:51 PM
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theremart theremart is offline
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RE: Off topic

Plasma,

Awesome.. I have no authority on this board but only offering a gentle nudge of a suggestion.

I was considering myself what it would take to duplicate Bit's work in an overunity device that he has shown on youtube and I am told at the show.

I was thinking one could buy the following ->

1. 10 coiler
2. Tesla solar charger. ( substitue for Bit's pulsinator)
3. Bits battery swapper.

Hook them up to duplicate what Bits is doing. Although Bits has a custom made inverter....

It was just a thought. Biggest drawback is one would have to solder all the components up on the 10 coiler, and unlike Bits we don't have Rick standing right there to insure it all gets done right.


So Plasma I can see a bit of where you may be going with this.

Mart
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  #490 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2010, 05:59 PM
Plazma Plazma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theremart View Post
Plasma,

Awesome.. I have no authority on this board but only offering a gentle nudge of a suggestion.

I was considering myself what it would take to duplicate Bit's work in an overunity device that he has shown on youtube and I am told at the show.

I was thinking one could buy the following ->

1. 10 coiler
2. Tesla solar charger. ( substitue for Bit's pulsinator)
3. Bits battery swapper.

Hook them up to duplicate what Bits is doing. Although Bits has a custom made inverter....

It was just a thought. Biggest drawback is one would have to solder all the components up on the 10 coiler, and unlike Bits we don't have Rick standing right there to insure it all gets done right.


So Plasma I can see a bit of where you may be going with this.

Mart
Hi Mart,

Thanks for the nudge - I need all the direction I can get. I, too, have a Bits swapper in my x-hairs - I want to get the current piece(s) of the elephant dissected first, then maybe a swapper. There is just a lot of mechanical to consider as if the electronics were not enough. Anyway, new camera on charge and hope to post some pics soon. I think we are on a similar trajectory and thanks for your inputs.

Best,

Plazma
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  #491 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2010, 02:01 AM
aussieaussieaussie aussieaussieaussie is offline
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@Plasma,

I love your idea, basically exactly what I want to do.
Your enthusiasm to logging and publishing results also has me very very happy!

I also totally agree, the knowledge you gained from building this setup is the real value here - world blows up tomorrow at least you know how to get yourself setup with power in your home.


A few things to consider..

Your logging of your output into grid via grid tie inverter, and the logging of grid use is great - you will also need to log the input from the solar accurately.
If you just guess based on the solar panel watts and daylight hours, your numbers may be off by quite a bit.

Also, I know many of us would love to know the results of a simple test where you build two identical setups one with bedini solar charger and one with normal solar controller and see how much more the bedini produces in work from the batteries.

Also, I think you do need to build a pulsinator as it is necessary to replicate Bits design.
Are you going to rewind all the coils to have a inner opposite winding?

And don't worry my friend, if a bedini ten coiler is part of your design, then you ARE on the right thread! Glad to have you here posting your results!

Hope this helps,

Ozy
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  #492 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2010, 09:15 AM
albertMunich albertMunich is offline
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Hi Plazma, I was waiting to hear from you again. Great -you are under way with your setup!

So many things happening at the same time since the conference...I have a hard time keeping up with it all.
The Ferris Wheel machine has created an incredible stir...rightfully so. It shows that Johns machines are like an onion or one of these Russian dolls where one is inside the other and so on. At first look, the machine comes across as just "another Bedini wheel". Then you look in a little closer and see that he has literally used all of his knowledge he has acquired over the years to make this device. The revelations are in the details of the setup and the way many of the parts are arranged. It remains to be seen if the other people can replicate this. I think one of the keys is the size of the machine. You get these magnets on the rim to pass the coil at very high speeds without putting in too much energy to get the wheel going. Then there is the sheer mass and weight of the coils. So far I have resisted the temptation to remodel my original Bedini bike wheel machine....
Unfortunately the stir about the ferris wheel seems to have relegated Bits groundbreaking work on the 1o coiler to the second place. I think his approach is more accessible to us who want to replicate .
There are some things that really get me excited here- first the fact that John seems to have overcome his reluctance to go public with his work. And then, even more important, that the recent constructions go off the principle of having a motor/generator in one. Johns Ferris wheel has separated the motor and generator parts. He then optimizes BOTH parts to get the most out of them.
If I understand correctly Bits is doing the same on his 10 coil machine. He recharges the drive batt off a generator coil without electrical connection to the rest of the machine. (Except the fact its wound on the interior of a drive coil) SO the connection here is a primarily thru the magnetic fields.Have I gotten this correctly?
this would mean that the "magic" is not solely within the batteries anymore.We have a real generator system here.
The way to OU is to combine ALL these effects to obtain a working model.
since all these things have losses there has to be a way to squeeze the last bit of juice out of the machine.
Bits- here are two hopefully not too stupid questions from me:
If you use the bat swapper the weakest bat will go automatically to the charge rail . there it gets a charge and the voltage will rise very quickly. How do you keep the whole system from going into oscillation? The batt goes up in voltage- the system reconnects it - the voltage drops- the machine disconnects and so on. Is there a fixed time factor for the switching or is the "decision" the system makes based only on the voltage?
Second question- this one comes from the colleagues here in Munich who built the 10 coil machine. Did you get rid of the neons? Rick has put neons in there which go on at 50 volts and so prevent the use of higher voltages. We think he should have used 140 V neons or left them off entirely.As it is they brake the machine down and the friends here had many problems with them.
Without the neons the machine will run at much higher voltages.

I have seen many interesting things on my 3 coil setups when I use a recovery coil. I definitely think thats the way to go.A highly efficient motor driving a highly efficient generator with all the bells and whistles in between so nothing gets lost...tell me what you think.
I greatly admire all the work you are doing. For the moment I am an onlooker only but I hope to have time in January to roll up me sleeves and do some more experiments.
John is not the only guy plowing snow...we have quite a bit of it at the moment here!

Albert
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  #493 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2010, 09:24 AM
albertMunich albertMunich is offline
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Last question:
I'd like to know if the local press did any reports on the Bedini conference and what they said about it? The usual "crackpot" headline or something trying to get to the bottom of things?
This could be an indicator of a changing political climate. I think in earlier years there would have been some kind of MIB intimidation action against John and his friends. Perhaps the powers that be have decided not to molest the researchers any more for the moment.The internet has changed it all.-look at todays WikiLeaks headlines.News spread in an unprecedented way.
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  #494 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2010, 11:59 AM
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Bit's-n-Bytes Bit's-n-Bytes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albertMunich View Post
Hi Plazma, I was waiting to hear from you again. Great -you are under way with your setup!

So many things happening at the same time since the conference...I have a hard time keeping up with it all.
The Ferris Wheel machine has created an incredible stir...rightfully so. It shows that Johns machines are like an onion or one of these Russian dolls where one is inside the other and so on. At first look, the machine comes across as just "another Bedini wheel". Then you look in a little closer and see that he has literally used all of his knowledge he has acquired over the years to make this device. The revelations are in the details of the setup and the way many of the parts are arranged. It remains to be seen if the other people can replicate this. I think one of the keys is the size of the machine. You get these magnets on the rim to pass the coil at very high speeds without putting in too much energy to get the wheel going. Then there is the sheer mass and weight of the coils. So far I have resisted the temptation to remodel my original Bedini bike wheel machine....
Unfortunately the stir about the ferris wheel seems to have relegated Bits groundbreaking work on the 1o coiler to the second place. I think his approach is more accessible to us who want to replicate .
There are some things that really get me excited here- first the fact that John seems to have overcome his reluctance to go public with his work. And then, even more important, that the recent constructions go off the principle of having a motor/generator in one. Johns Ferris wheel has separated the motor and generator parts. He then optimizes BOTH parts to get the most out of them.
If I understand correctly Bits is doing the same on his 10 coil machine. He recharges the drive batt off a generator coil without electrical connection to the rest of the machine. (Except the fact its wound on the interior of a drive coil) SO the connection here is a primarily thru the magnetic fields.Have I gotten this correctly?
this would mean that the "magic" is not solely within the batteries anymore.We have a real generator system here.
The way to OU is to combine ALL these effects to obtain a working model.
since all these things have losses there has to be a way to squeeze the last bit of juice out of the machine.
Bits- here are two hopefully not too stupid questions from me:
If you use the bat swapper the weakest bat will go automatically to the charge rail . there it gets a charge and the voltage will rise very quickly. How do you keep the whole system from going into oscillation? The batt goes up in voltage- the system reconnects it - the voltage drops- the machine disconnects and so on. Is there a fixed time factor for the switching or is the "decision" the system makes based only on the voltage?
Second question- this one comes from the colleagues here in Munich who built the 10 coil machine. Did you get rid of the neons? Rick has put neons in there which go on at 50 volts and so prevent the use of higher voltages. We think he should have used 140 V neons or left them off entirely.As it is they brake the machine down and the friends here had many problems with them.
Without the neons the machine will run at much higher voltages.

I have seen many interesting things on my 3 coil setups when I use a recovery coil. I definitely think thats the way to go.A highly efficient motor driving a highly efficient generator with all the bells and whistles in between so nothing gets lost...tell me what you think.
I greatly admire all the work you are doing. For the moment I am an onlooker only but I hope to have time in January to roll up me sleeves and do some more experiments.
John is not the only guy plowing snow...we have quite a bit of it at the moment here!

Albert
Hi Albert, if you look at the drawings I posted earlier in this thread and take the 24Volt setup, you can see that I pull the weakest battery out of the load. In this setup, the batt swapper determines which one is weakest based on voltage. The swapper Totaly isolates the batt for charging onto the "Charge rail". The 2 cap pulser can take any source, such as solar, radiant energy off of the output of the 10 coiler, or even generated energy through a special coil on the 10 coiler. We want to see at least 36V to 56V max for the 2 cap pulser. This energy is used to charge the batt to the appropriate levels. This battery is then put back into the load, and then the next weakest batt is targeted. For the 24V setup, when 1 batt is pulled out, his partner is "Resting". Not true for the 12V setup.

The neons are still there. I am only running this on 24V so no need to remove them. Above 48V they would need to be removed.

Hope this helps

Thanks

Jeff

Last edited by Bit's-n-Bytes : 11-29-2010 at 01:50 PM.
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  #495 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2010, 05:19 PM
Plazma Plazma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aussieaussieaussie View Post
@Plasma,

I love your idea, basically exactly what I want to do.
Your enthusiasm to logging and publishing results also has me very very happy!

I also totally agree, the knowledge you gained from building this setup is the real value here - world blows up tomorrow at least you know how to get yourself setup with power in your home.


A few things to consider..

Your logging of your output into grid via grid tie inverter, and the logging of grid use is great - you will also need to log the input from the solar accurately.
If you just guess based on the solar panel watts and daylight hours, your numbers may be off by quite a bit.

Also, I know many of us would love to know the results of a simple test where you build two identical setups one with bedini solar charger and one with normal solar controller and see how much more the bedini produces in work from the batteries.

Also, I think you do need to build a pulsinator as it is necessary to replicate Bits design.
Are you going to rewind all the coils to have a inner opposite winding?

And don't worry my friend, if a bedini ten coiler is part of your design, then you ARE on the right thread! Glad to have you here posting your results!

Hope this helps,

Ozy
Hi Ozy,

Thanks for the encouragement - very appreciated. You raise some excellent points and I will attempt to address a few now, and more in the future.

Solar measurement - point taken; I neglected to mention that one of the pathways through my switch/selection matrix is the ability to dump excess solar directly to the grid tie inverter(s). Each inverter has a Killawatt meter in series with the 120VAC tie point(s) to the split phase 240VAC tie point in the lab - and, care has been taken to always keep the backfeed onto the grid in balance on the 2 AC legs. To do that I have broken the solar array into quadrants at the combiner box at the base of the array (my own design and construction). Thus, 4 sets of DC feeds come into the lab and can be routed to their appointed tasks. I did mention that I have a TED monitor on the 240VAC back-feed point so I have a way to cross check the cumulative energy from the grid tie inverters and compare that to the individual contributions from each solar quadrant under test. Over the course of time I hope to properly characterize the performance of each solar quadrant. Moment-by-moment and day-by-day the numbers are, of course, most variable as conditions change back and forth. Week-by-week and month-to-month patterns will emerge from the integrations on the various meters. Also, note that the metering is not in the direct path of impulse energy sources/generators as those, as best I can surmise, have been kept purposefully open loop.

Pulsinator - I'd love to do it or a version of it and Albert M. raises points in that direction too. Its really early . . . I have to get my 'current' monsters tamed (pun aside), and I came back from the conference with a load of ideas to try. The danger is to take on too many things at once and not get the basics (such as battery characterization and/or solar panel tests) done correctly. I've made a massive (to me) investment in 8, 880 AMP Hr batteries. Cared for properly, they should last a lifetime, or two. The internal plates are huge. I know all too well having dis-assembled them cell-by-cell so as to move them into the battery enclosure adjacent to the lab. It took an engine hoist to lift the individual cells from their steel cases and a hydraulic skijet jack to lift and swing the cells back into the cases as placed in the battery box. Each of the assembled batteries weighs in nearly 800lbs. I could write a book about the mechanics of all this. However, once I have my numbers and get my switch gear fine-tuned there will be LOTS of experiments and tests such as those your suggest - just not enough time - but what a load of fun!

Rewind the coils?! - Yeah, its a possibility down the line. However, if Bits' coil concept is as good as I think it is (kudos to Bits BTW), I would hope Rick F. and Bedini would make that coil or a version of it available as a store item and use coil winding machinery to get the quality up at an afforable price to us all (hint-hint) as I am the world's WORST coil winder. I can bend and break rebar and mix concrete and dead-lift batteries but wind coils? - fugget it. Negating the Lenz force at the coil leads to a ubiquitous device, a coil or variant therof that could be used in many different generator designs - that coil concept is or could be a real game changer.

Again Ozy, Albert, Bits, et al . . . thanks for all of your contributions.

Cheers,

Plazma
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  #496 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2010, 07:25 PM
Plazma Plazma is offline
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Charge controller Test Side-by-Side?

@Ozy~

I've thought some more about the charge efficiency test you suggested in your last post. Since I do have some charge controllers by Xantrex on back-order, when these arrive I could run the test you suggest, provided I get some of the battery testing and early-on charging and solar array tests out of the way first.

The Xantrex units are 40 Amp - the Bedini Tesla unit is 30 Amp. I might have to do some 'tuning' to match conditions but I already have matched sets of solar quadrants in the upper half of the solar array and the pair of batteries I'm testing right now seem very, very close to one-another.

So, the test you suggest is a future possibility. As an aside, the Xantrex units were to be used as 'voltage regulators' in some other experiments and not targeted for battery charging vis-a-vis the Tesla Amp.

Isn't serendipity great or what?!

Best,

Plazma
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  #497 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2010, 06:04 AM
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Aaron Aaron is offline
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@Ozy

Au-ssie sounds like A.C. (two of my favorite initials)...

You have been removed for continued insults, etc... please do not sign
up for another acct - it is against forum rules as is name calling and other
behavior. You have NOT been censored. You were given multiple chances
to start your own thread and voice your pro co2 global warming opinions
but continued to defy multiple requests in that thread to do so.

Calling respected members retarded and other demeaning names is
completely unacceptable and simply will not be tolerated. Thank you for
your cooperation in not signing up for another account.

Debating is one thing but disrespectful childish name calling is another and
is not welcome in this forum, period, end of story.
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  #498 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2010, 08:32 AM
nenergy nenergy is offline
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OverUnityResearch related

found this on the other forum, maybe useful to those doing 10 coil

posted by milehigh

The bottom line is I don't have to do anything. It's up to Jeff Wilson, Rick Friedrick and John Bedini to find a willing customer that will purchase a system from them. I posted that any person purchasing a system like this should demand up-front specifications and performance criteria in writing. In this realm, there is no guarantee that that will happen.

If you want to get a feeling for someone else's real-life experience with a 10-coiler, check out Preston Stroud:

YouTube - prestonstroud's Channel


MileHigh
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  #499 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2010, 03:18 PM
albertMunich albertMunich is offline
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A slightly sour note:
I just had a look at the pompously named Truth In Heart website....
Rick has set the next conference to the last weekend of June next year.Good news. The bad news is that at the same time he raised the price of admission from 250 to 450 dollars. The 10 coil machine is 4500 Dollars now. If I remember correctly it started at 3000 Dollars. Draw your conclusions. I don't want a kit for a toy sized Bedini included in the admission price...I have too many of these things lying around and I doubt if I could take one on an international flight. If this shows up in the X Ray everyone will think its an infernal machine...
I know there is much time invested in developing this stuff but----do they think we are all Russian Mafia magnates? If I went to the congress from Germany the whole weekend would cost me more than 3000 Euros. If anything I think the prices for the hardware should go down after a while after the initial investment has been paid back.
Who can afford this kind of stuff at these prices? Most of us do this research on a shoestring budget, at night in our spare time. At these rates free energy research will become another luxury toy.
A slightly grumpy
Albert
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Old 11-30-2010, 07:07 PM
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@nenergy

Quote:
Originally Posted by nenergy View Post
found this on the other forum, maybe useful to those doing 10 coil

posted by milehigh

The bottom line is I don't have to do anything. It's up to Jeff Wilson, Rick Friedrick and John Bedini to find a willing customer that will purchase a system from them. I posted that any person purchasing a system like this should demand up-front specifications and performance criteria in writing. In this realm, there is no guarantee that that will happen.

If you want to get a feeling for someone else's real-life experience with a 10-coiler, check out Preston Stroud:

YouTube - prestonstroud's Channel


MileHigh
If anyone wants to read what Mile High has to say, they can go elsewhere
where he is actually a member. Thank you! Read his posts in the original
Ainslie thread - he disqualified himself from being any kind of expert on
anything in this entire field as he doesn't even know how an inductor works.

These kits are sold as experimental machines and they are NOT sold
with overunity claims even though some builders have achieved it.

Preston doesn't know why he hasn't found overunity and he's been working
on this project for a year, seriously? ONE SINGLE YEAR

Preston needs to use some real connections and forget about all the
alligator clip leads for the mechanical contact leads - even with alligator
clips he says he is getting cop 1.0 (breaking even) but nevertheless,
bad connections are a no-no for OBVIOUS reasons. Discharging a cap
and letting the pressurized output hit roadbumps along the way - just might
upset the flow just a tad bit, don't you think?
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  #501 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2010, 08:08 PM
John_K John_K is offline
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Albert,

I think that is a bit harsh. Why do you say "pompous"?

The conference is the last weekend in July. The price has increased because the conference is now for 3 days, meaning there will be more time to cover things.

We are planning more workshops which be aimed at people at different levels. If there are kits supplied they will be there so people can learn more about the technology, not just as a take home toy. I have taken plenty of parts home on the plane and never had problems.

The 10-coiler has always been $4500, it is $3000 for the additional 10 coil kit so you are wrong about the price.

I am coming from Australia and it will cost me more than $3000, but I have 7 months to save up, bit IMHO it will be worth every cent.

I know Rick and John are planning bigger and better things this time. It will be better organized with even more surprises in store. There will also be activities and the chance for people to mingle in the evenings so this is not just limited to attending during the day and you do your own things at night.

Rick has booked out the whole CDA resort for this conference, 250 rooms that can accommodate 4 people per room. 1000 people can attend, all the conference rooms have also been booked.

This is also high season in CDA, so the rooms need to be registered otherwise you will have to bring a tent If you or anyone are interested in attending you will need to register a room before they are booked. Rick has created a Yahoo group with more information and polls for people to indicate what they want. The group is called "Renaissance2011Convention", just search for that at Yahoo groups. I will paste a link later.

Aaron, maybe we should start a new thread for this and move this post over?


John K.

Quote:
Originally Posted by albertMunich View Post
A slightly sour note:
I just had a look at the pompously named Truth In Heart website....
Rick has set the next conference to the last weekend of June next year.Good news. The bad news is that at the same time he raised the price of admission from 250 to 450 dollars. The 10 coil machine is 4500 Dollars now. If I remember correctly it started at 3000 Dollars. Draw your conclusions. I don't want a kit for a toy sized Bedini included in the admission price...I have too many of these things lying around and I doubt if I could take one on an international flight. If this shows up in the X Ray everyone will think its an infernal machine...
I know there is much time invested in developing this stuff but----do they think we are all Russian Mafia magnates? If I went to the congress from Germany the whole weekend would cost me more than 3000 Euros. If anything I think the prices for the hardware should go down after a while after the initial investment has been paid back.
Who can afford this kind of stuff at these prices? Most of us do this research on a shoestring budget, at night in our spare time. At these rates free energy research will become another luxury toy.
A slightly grumpy
Albert
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  #502 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2010, 09:20 PM
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over 1.0 cop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
even with alligator
clips he says he is getting cop 1.0 (breaking even) but nevertheless,
bad connections are a no-no for OBVIOUS reasons. Discharging a cap
and letting the pressurized output hit roadbumps along the way - just might
upset the flow just a tad bit, don't you think?
p.s. and he is claiming he is breaking even at 1.0 and he has NOT even
included the mechanical work. He needs Peter's Electric Motor Secrets so
he knows how to properly calculate it and add that to his 1.0 cop
break even results. Again, some people can't recognize over 1.0 cop
even if it is right in front of them!
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  #503 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2010, 06:14 PM
Plazma Plazma is offline
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Tedium ad Nauseum (not)

To All . . .

For what it's worth, I have a technique that helps eliminate a lot of the tedium in stripping the magnet wire ends that I am using on the 10-coiler build. I'll toss this out so that those that have the need can maybe benefit.

I have recently purchased a very in-expensive set of Dremel Tool bits that are coated with diamond dust. With a Dremel Drive set at its lowest speed, the following bits do a very effective job of removing magnet wire insulation: a) a cylindrical-shaped bit about 3/8 inch long; b) a conical-shaped bit; and c) a truncated pyramidical-shaped bit.

If one does not have a Dremel Tool, a battery-powered drill could work, too - however, the Dremel is much lighter and easier to manipulate.

Just use a light touch and let the diamond bit do the work so as to minimize copper loss. Work your way around the wire. This takes just a few seconds to get very shiny, exposed copper.

The bit set I purchased was from HobbyToolSupply on Amazon.com for about $14.00 for a 50pc set of various shaped bits. These can save a lot of time.

Cheers,

Plazma
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  #504 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2010, 09:08 PM
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theremart theremart is offline
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Stripping magnet wire..

Use a candle. Coating oxides then scrap gently with a knife.

That is my method of choice. Thanks for sharing another way.
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  #505 (permalink)  
Old 12-22-2010, 04:40 PM
Plazma Plazma is offline
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10-Coiler Trigger Resistance

General Question:

Has anyone used a (higher wattage) potentiometer in the trigger circuit of the 10-coiler for ease in tuning? If so, any suggestions as to wattage, turns, and possible resistance combinations? Of specific interest are general guidlines for 24 volt source and 24 volt charging. In addition to the fixed, higher wattage resistors that came in the kits I have a few of these higher wattage resistors of the same manufacturer in my stock. Still, a pot would be helpful. Thanks for any suggestions.

Plazma
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Old 12-22-2010, 05:11 PM
erfinder erfinder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plazma View Post
General Question:

Has anyone used a (higher wattage) potentiometer in the trigger circuit of the 10-coiler for ease in tuning? If so, any suggestions as to wattage, turns, and possible resistance combinations? Of specific interest are general guidlines for 24 volt source and 24 volt charging. In addition to the fixed, higher wattage resistors that came in the kits I have a few of these higher wattage resistors of the same manufacturer in my stock. Still, a pot would be helpful. Thanks for any suggestions.

Plazma
I don't have a 10 coil device...I built a 12 coil master/slave machine....I presently use a 60 watt pot in the trigger....I exceed the wattage rating of this pot at least two fold for very brief periods...I lost three of these things doing that, you think I would have learned my lesson after the second one went up in a cloud of smoke.....that tends to happen when you pump over 200 watts into this circuit.

I'm looking for 500watt 1K Ohm rheostats, I am also seeking 500watt 1K Ohm tandem rheostats. If anyone has a tip where I can locate either of these at a price that an unemployed man can pay...please PM me....

Regards
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Old 12-22-2010, 07:40 PM
faramog faramog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plazma View Post
Greetings All,

After some 'soak' time post-conference, I'd like to share some very rudimentary and early-on charging findings ref Bedini's Tesla Solar-Kick Amp in charging some 'modest' batteries. Here's the setup underway:

I'm feeding about 300 watts off of my solar array (on average) to the Tesla unit. It is charging a pair of Solar-1 880 amp-hr batteries connected in parallel and doing, what appears to be, a masterful job of pushing them up the charge curve. I started this current test at 8 AM (fairly low light) with the batteries at 12.75 volts. At noon the voltge read 13.2-13.3 with pulses on my analog ammeter of about 10 amps peak. During the time from 9-noon I was selecting various combinations of solar panels so as to keep the ammeter readings below 10 amps peak (quite variable ambient light conditions this time of year). Right now, as I type, the light conditions are waning so I have all the panels active and I'm seeing ammeter pulses that peak at about 3-4 amps, or so. Voltage is up to 13.3 + volts. Right at noon I shut down for an hour so as to give the rig a rest and resumed charging at 1PM. The restart voltage after resting an hour had settled down to 13.05 volts.

While its really early in testing, I'm pleased at the progress. I'm trying to be cautious and rest the batteries a lot and also not push the Tesla unit too much as I'm just beginning to get a feel of things. For example, I'll soon shut down and let the batteries rest overnight and resume testing tomorrow AM. I noticed during today's test that the case of the Tesla unit was cold to the touch with no apparent heat rise at the conditions being tested. Once I finish this initial charge I will run hydroometer tests on the individual battery cells as part of their baseline characterization.

And, speaking of cold, it was very cold last night and all day today and we'll have a frigid night tonight, too. So, it will be interesting to see how the batteries behave overnight.

As an aside, the pair of batteries under test are the supply or excitation batteries I will use on my 10-coiler. I held off finishing the 10-coiler because of the conference which was just terrific. I have 3 more pairs of Solar-1's rated at 880 Amp Hrs each that will be charged by the 10-coiler. I may do initial equalization charges on those battery sets using the Tesla unit, too - depends on how thing go the next few days.

Also, I use double-pole knife switches on custom panels that I built so as to isolate, select, and route the various energy pathways between all of the elements in my system. The batteries are in their own enclosure adjacent to the lab. All battery cables are isolated and fused. The cables run into the lab via 3-inch pvc pipes that interconnect the lab and battery box.

Here's hoping for sunny days,

Plazma
Sounds an interesting setup. I assume that ultimately you plan on using the 5,000 odd AH of batteries to power your house. Are you just planning on using the 10-coiler to maintain them and the solar panel to charge them via the Tesla switch ?

I'd be very interested in your results

Thanks
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Old 12-22-2010, 09:31 PM
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iankoglin iankoglin is online now
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Re Pot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plazma View Post
General Question:

Has anyone used a (higher wattage) potentiometer in the trigger circuit of the 10-coiler for ease in tuning? If so, any suggestions as to wattage, turns, and possible resistance combinations? Of specific interest are general guidlines for 24 volt source and 24 volt charging. In addition to the fixed, higher wattage resistors that came in the kits I have a few of these higher wattage resistors of the same manufacturer in my stock. Still, a pot would be helpful. Thanks for any suggestions.

Plazma
G'Day Plazma
I have not had any success with tuning my Rick's 10 coiler to make it easier I purchased a 100 ohm 50 watt pot here "http://www.tedss.com/specSearch.asp?pn=R10050W38X12FWS&ct=Rheostat&em=y "

I have tried for almost 1 year now but still have not found a sweet spot I was however able to charge some truck batteries that I have been conditioning over time with one of my other machines.

I purchased 12 new Trojan T105's to use on Rick's machine I have them set up as 1-24v 225 ah as primary battery and 1- 24v 450ah as charge battery I am never able to charge the Charge battery over 24.5?volts I feel that the reason is that these batteries being new are not conditioned.
The Trojan Battery manuel states that these new batteries will not deliver their full rated capacity .This is normal and should be expected as it takes time to "work the battery up" Trojan batteries take between 50 - 100 cycles to work up to providing full peak capacity

I hope this is of some help
Kindest regards Kogs
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  #509 (permalink)  
Old 12-22-2010, 10:58 PM
Mark Mark is offline
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Koggs

Not be able to charge over 24.5 volts? That's not good at all. Can you charge them higher with a conventional charger?
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Old 12-22-2010, 11:21 PM
Plazma Plazma is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 121
10-coiler tuning

@Kogs

Thanks for the info and the prompt reply. I agree with Mark about the voltage issue . . . for example, the spec sheet on my Solar 1's suggest 12.75 Volts is fully charged. However, they also suggest a monthly or bi-monthly 'equalization charge' where the charging voltage is taken to 14.5 VDC for about 3 hours so as to fully turn over any stratification of fluids in the individual cells. So, for me, 25.5 volts at a nominal 24 volt arrangement is "fully charged" - and, I am still wondering about the 'equalization' issue. I'd rather get the 10-coiler to do its thing and 'cold-boil' the target batteries.

There are a lot of issues ref the 10-coiler (like what is the correct winding direction on the coils, terminal blocks that, in my opinion were never intended to be bent 90 degrees, base resistor settings for a 24 volt setup, and so forth). Maybe, together, we can get some of these resolved.

Since I have 3, separate 24 volt banks for 'charging' and a 4th bank for excitation, I can charge from the 10-coiler as well as from Xantrex units via solar. The Tesla kick charger takes solar and charges just the excitation bank.

I can discharge the test banks back into my local grid using grid-tie inverters sized beneath the C20 rate of the Solar 1's. Yes, it might take a long, long time to fully condition such a large battery set. However, Bedini says 'the magic is in the battery' so I hope, in the fullness of time, to experience some of that magic

Now that I FINALLY have all of the support infrastructure in place, I can devote full time to just the 10-coiler and its issues.

Cheers,

Plazma
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