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John Bedini Discussion threads relating to John Bedini. Bedini SG, Bedini SSG, Crystal Batteries, etc...

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  #61  
Old 06-11-2009, 07:39 PM
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parallel coils

Some maglev trains have a Halbach Array on the bottom of the train and the track is embedded with coils under the magnets. The coils are permanently shorted coils. Basically one big fat winding where both ends are connected. You run the magnet over that and it creates a strong magnetic repulsion from the coil that pushes the magnets away and pushes the train in the air. And that magnetic field lasts longer than normal.

The coils here, Bob Teal's, etc... some magneto systems that shorts the coil... are of course not permanently shorted. But the point is, parallel coils are ultra low impedance so they can charge really fast and strong. (magneto systems aren't parallel coils but the coil gets shorted sometimes, intentionally)

But what happens after you take the power away? Parallel coils are shorted into each other.

Back EMF can work against you, but then again, it can work for you if you want it to. And I do mean the real Back EMF and not the inductive spike of course.

Maybe Bob Teal deserves another look too.
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  #62  
Old 06-11-2009, 08:08 PM
kent_elyue kent_elyue is offline
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Eric Dollard Notes

Quote:
Originally Posted by dllabarre View Post

"If you get a chance, please read this by Eric Dollard:
Eric Dollard Notes (1986--1991)
Eric Dollard Notes (1986--1991)
Read the Introduction to Dielectricity and Capacitance on pages
26-29 in the pdf." VERY interesting read!
Is there any chance of obtaining a downloadable version to read offline? (The scribd website seems to invariably crash my browser.)

-kent
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Old 06-11-2009, 08:24 PM
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scribd

I don't know if that doc is really placed in the public domain or not.

I use firefox and have no problems and have downloaded quite a few free articles from scribd.

I'd recommend trying it with a freshly booted computer and nothing running in the background. Just open a browser and go straight there. The pdf reader on that site might be locking you up but maybe less of a chance of that happening with minimal things running.
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Old 06-11-2009, 08:39 PM
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shorted coils

I apologize for the slight off topic posts here but I think relevant. I've waited for quite a while for a serious discussion on parallel coils and am pleasantly surprised that John revealed it in this application.

Anyway, here is another system with parallel coils.



And here is the maglev stuff:

https://www.llnl.gov/str/Post.html





"The track contained some 1,000 rectangular inductive wire coils, each about 15 centimeters wide. Each coil was shorted at its ends to form a closed circuit but not otherwise connected to any electrical source."

I'm not saying the Kromrey is like the maglev, just pointing
out that after you take power away from parallel coils, you really have
coils that you short into each other. What does this do and what
is your benefit?

Again, I apologize for going slightly off topic but I just hope everyone
really takes a look at this concept deeply. What is the nature of coils
that are in parallel, you charge them and then you take away the power.

Do you want a spike back or do you want an a magnetic field that
lasts longer than it is "supposed" to.
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  #65  
Old 06-11-2009, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
I'm not saying the Kromrey is like the maglev, just pointing
out that after you take power away from parallel coils, you really have
coils that you short into each other. What does this do and what
is your benefit?
Please enlighten us....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
Again, I apologize for going slightly off topic but I just hope everyone
really takes a look at this concept deeply. What is the nature of coils
that are in parallel, you charge them and then you take away the power.
Again please enlighten us.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
Do you want a spike back or do you want an a magnetic field that
lasts longer than it is "supposed" to.

Speaking for myself, I would love to have both, however, if I had to choose between the two, I would have to go with the magnetic field which lasts longer than its "supposed" to, as we have a really good proven method for harvesting the spikes. That being said,

please enlighten us...


Regards
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  #66  
Old 06-11-2009, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dllabarre View Post
It took a while reading through this post, and all the other posts referenced from this post, to find this:

"The gas that went into the coil is coming back as a spike because it is time compressed. The aether provides a free inwards push on anything displacing it. So when a coil is charged, this free inwards push is what is snapping the potential back to the coil on disconnect so fast virtually with no opposition. And, while it snapped back, it creates a true vacuum meaning it is free of positive potential that can cause resistance and this sucks in more energy from the vacuum with it adding to the potential....so there is a gain in potential by this mechanism. The inward snap of the potential causes a negative pressure zone...it sucks in extra potential from the vacuum. This is what the spike is and why it brings back more with it."

"When the voltage potential comes back, it draws more potential to it from the vacuum, adding to the sum of potential, which then gets transferred to a receiver...battery, capacitor, whatever. Once this potential is gathered, it has to go through "forward conversion" then it can move to a lower potential to light a bulb or whatever and as the work is being performed, that work is what energy is. What was being stored? Time. That is why time (width) doesn't show up on the spike - TIME is being conserved within that voltage potential...you'll see some width if you zoom way in at the bottom but for all pracitcal purposes, it is a spike without current."

The above makes the most sense to me of any explanation I've read so far about "the spike" we see in the SSG circuits.


"If you get a chance, please read this by Eric Dollard:
Eric Dollard Notes (1986--1991)
Eric Dollard Notes (1986--1991)
Read the Introduction to Dielectricity and Capacitance on pages
26-29 in the pdf." VERY interesting read!


Thank you Aaron.

DonL
The high spike comes from the collapse of the magnetic field in the coil. It only appears as a spike because that's how fast the coil collapses. The force that's generating the spike is the same thing that generates electricity in any generator. Consider your traditional brushless ac generator. The voltage peaks BETWEEN the magnets. If the magnetic field were able to collapse faster it would show spikes much like the ssg. but the nature of generators the magnetics field collapses slower because the magnet is still present. In the SSG the force that generated the magnetic field is no longer present to slow down the collapse. Time cannot be altered as it is dimensionless. The time concept is much like the string theory in that it's just a theory and so far it only works on paper. You can get the same spike out of a standard generator coil. you momentarily short the coil at the point of maximum voltage. This super charges the magnetic core when the current flow stops the magnetic field collapses inducing voltage in the generator coil. The same thing can be done by pulsing dc into a transformer.

The question that remains is how does the em collapse channel the energy in heat. In order for the system to interact with the heat it must be carried by em waves. It's possible that all non shielded em systems interact with the ambient heat energy. And also possible that the kromrey converter interacts on a larger scale because of the rapid changes in flux potential. If heat is carried by a specific frequency of em wave then the kromrey converter would have to be precision tuned to tap that frequency that would explain the odd placement of bedini's magnetics and the amount of experimentation that was required to make it successful.
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Old 06-12-2009, 01:32 AM
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coils in parallel

Quote:
Originally Posted by erfinder View Post
Please enlighten us....

Again please enlighten us.....

Speaking for myself, I would love to have both, however, if I had to choose between the two, I would have to go with the magnetic field which lasts longer than its "supposed" to, as we have a really good proven method for harvesting the spikes. That being said,

please enlighten us...

Regards
Erfinder,

I would say that I would like either the spike or extended magnetic field equally depending on what I was trying to accomplish - the goal of the circuit.

As far as enlightening anyone, I would say everyone would just have to experiment on their own with coils in parallel and see what the difference is compared to a single coil collapsing and meditate on what good it is to have an extended magnetic field.

In a solenoid, perhaps you can turn the power off sooner and still have the rod move into the coil because there is still a magnetic field pulling it in...with the power off of the coil.

It isn't anything magical - it's just out of the box - and it has taken almost 2 years it seems to get anyone experimenting with it. I have high hopes for everyone experimenting with it.
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Old 06-12-2009, 02:00 AM
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I find it interesting to note that the magnetic flux changes direction 3 times for 1 revolution from the iron core's perspective.



-Gary
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  #69  
Old 06-12-2009, 02:59 AM
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So it seems to me that the extended magnetic field would have many applications for drive coils on motors and generator coils as well possibly. Now to figure out how to do it. Thanks for the tip
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Old 06-12-2009, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
I would say that I would like either the spike or extended magnetic field equally depending on what I was trying to accomplish - the goal of the circuit.
I agree, I did say in the opening of my last reply that I would love to have both. The latter part of that post stated "if I had to choose between the two" assuming the choice could be made, I would choose this over that, the decision would of course be governed by circuit parameters, which are planned around the end goal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
As far as enlightening anyone, I would say everyone would just have to experiment on their own with coils in parallel and see what the difference is compared to a single coil collapsing and meditate on what good it is to have an extended magnetic field.
I agree here as well. Experiments are being carried out by myself and others I am sure along these lines, the request however, was for you to shed some light on your experiments as you brought the subject to the attention of those frequenting this thread by mentioning the particular coil configuration and relating it to the Teal patent. Teal gives no insights regarding his "specific" arrangement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
In a solenoid, perhaps you can turn the power off sooner and still have the rod move into the coil because there is still a magnetic field pulling it in...with the power off of the coil.
Why? Itís obvious that there will be a reduction in resistance and inductance; would you have us to believe that there is more? What are we missing? I cannot conceive of a mechanism which would account for this idea that "a magnetic field is pulling it in" after the source current has been removed not based solely on this wire configuration. I am open however, and am really interested in what you have to say in this regard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
It isn't anything magical - it's just out of the box - and it has taken almost 2 years it seems to get anyone experimenting with it. I have high hopes for everyone experimenting with it.

I too have high hopes for everyone experimenting along these and similar lines. It would appear that this is an area which interests many. The attached patent was dedicated to this type of configuration. Reading between the lines isn't a prerequisite the author basically tells it like it is.

It doesnít matter if we perform 1 or 1000 experiments along these lines. No number of experiments will give the laymen the insights yourself and others have. Whether your insights are from many years of trial and error experimenting, or through the back engineering of privileged information the result is the same. You know something that we donít. Please donít throw a dog a bone! We donít need nor want hints. That being said, I am justified in saying, enlighten us. Share your light, tell it like it is. We are ready.


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File Type: pdf Electrical_circuit_for_inductance_conduc.pdf (266.0 KB, 146 views)
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  #71  
Old 06-12-2009, 02:29 PM
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what are you testing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmeat View Post
I find it interesting to note that the magnetic flux changes direction 3 times for 1 revolution from the iron core's perspective.
-Gary
Hi

Sorry to be picky but are you referring to the parallel coil idea or the Kromrey converter?

DonL
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Old 06-12-2009, 02:34 PM
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The Kromrey converter. Specifically the setup shown in the DVD with two sets of magnet blocks.

Cheers,

Steve
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Old 06-12-2009, 06:14 PM
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@Shamus

How is your stationary coil g-field going?
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Old 06-12-2009, 07:47 PM
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already explained

Quote:
Originally Posted by erfinder View Post
Please donít throw a dog a bone! We donít need nor want hints. That being said, I am justified in saying, enlighten us. Share your light, tell it like it is. We are ready.
I already spelled it out and it is simple enough for anyone to wind coils in parallel, charge them and take away the power. It is not more complicated that what I already explained.
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Old 06-12-2009, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
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@Shamus

How is your stationary coil g-field going?
I have all the parts, now I just have to assemble them so that they don't fly apart on me when I spin the thing. I'll definitely post more info as soon as there is more is to be had.

@Aaron: Thank you for posting. That's definitely something interesting to look into.
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  #76  
Old 06-13-2009, 04:36 AM
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Hi Aaron,

That was a very interesting pdf. Thanks.

Steve.
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Old 06-13-2009, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dllabarre View Post
Hi

Sorry to be picky but are you referring to the parallel coil idea or the Kromrey converter?

DonL


Hi Don,

I was referring to the Kromrey converter that Steve took the liberty to answer your question for me,Thx Steve .How's the build coming along?


-Gary
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Old 06-13-2009, 06:19 AM
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Hi Garry,

The build is progressing, albeit a little slowly. I have now finished my motor speed contoller and am waiting for my new flexible shaft coupling. I have posted a pic of my shiny new coils. I don't think these will unspool themselves.

Cheers,

Steve.
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  #79  
Old 06-13-2009, 03:07 PM
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Slip rings?

What is the technical name for those round/rollers on the shaft that is used to transfer the electricity onto the brushes?

I thought they were called slip rings but when I seached on slip rings I didn't get anything that look like those.

Are they made of brass or copper?

Thanks
DonL
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Old 06-13-2009, 04:02 PM
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Hi Don,

They are made from brass. Most slip rings are built for a specific purpose, so it may be hard to find any "off the shelf" ones that suit yours. I couldn't find any in my area as most suppliers only stocked commutators and not one piece slip rings. Any machine shop should be able to knock up a pair pretty cheaply.

Cheers,

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Old 06-13-2009, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
I already spelled it out and it is simple enough for anyone to wind coils in parallel, charge them and take away the power. It is not more complicated that what I already explained.
I must apologize; I have been sleeping at the wheel. You have spelled out many things, blind and arrogant I was. Forgive me..... The following was exactly what I was missing.

Directory:EV Gray - PESWiki

Thank you very much; I have some homework to do. I shall return when I am seeing green.


Regards
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Old 06-13-2009, 06:09 PM
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parallel coils

Erfinder,

When you have parallel coils and turn off the power, you "short" the coils and prevent the field from collapsing too fast. You force Lenz's law to work in your favor by slowing down the decay of the magnetic field.

So in a solenoid for example, you apply power to parallel coils and it pulls in the shaft/core and if you turn off the power before it gets all the way in, there is no more power supplied to the parallel coils, but that is ok because you still have a magnetic field in the coils that has not collapsed yet and that magnetic field can do work but you aren't paying extra for it. That magnetic field being there will cause attraction to iron, etc...

I'm not trying to throw out any hints - the answer really is out in the open. In this Kromrey device, it is a different application. I'm just pointing out that coils in parallel are something that nobody is openly discussing...until now.

In the back efm vs collapsing field thread, I mentioned that there is a way to allow current to keep going in a coil after taking away the power and having coils in parallel is one way. The Leedskalnin, PMH is another. But the parallel coils is the one I was really referring to. There is current in those coils making a magnetic field and there is no power being delivered to the coil - from an external source after it has been disconnected.

In the Electric Motor Secrets thread, it was alluded to in several ways but was never a "hint" because it was always in the Bob Teal patent from the beginning - clearly available for all to see. Peter posted those quite a while back.

My original look into shorting coils, not necessarily parallel coils was in magnetos and one youtube vid from ...??? had a "perpetual" pendulum where a magnetic switch would close and short the coil. It was a man from Scotland I believe and later said the power came from a CB radio output that the circuit received wirelessly. Maybe it was or maybe it really worked but he doesn't want to admit it.

Anyway, there will probably be other things coming out soon with parallel coils, different applications, discussions, etc...

I don't want to get anyone off track from the Kromrey replication building attempts but just sharing this concept that may be of interest and value to someone.
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  #83  
Old 06-14-2009, 02:19 AM
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Blocks on top and bottom of magnet stacks

What are those blocks that are on top and bottom of the stacks of magnets called and made of? Where did you get them from?

What type and power of magnets are recommended?

Sorry if these questions seem nieve and were answered on the video.
I bought a copy of the video last week and still haven't received it yet.

Thank you,
DonL
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Old 06-14-2009, 02:48 AM
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Hi Don,

The blocks you are refering to are just mild steel. They help make the U shape that is needed for the converter. To get a custom made U shape magnet costs a fair amount of money, so this is just a cheap way of doing it. The magnets themselves are the same magnets Bedini recomends for the SSG. 25mm x 40mm x 10mm(h). Believe me, the are pretty strong when they are joined like this.

Bedini doesn't discuss the detailed measurments of the device so I have just guesstimated these as I went along. He does go into a reasonable amount of detail in explaining the principles of the device, and this is enough to go and design your own. (IMO, I think that is the whole point of the DVD's) I have just copied his design as to try and not deviate to far away from a design that works.

Hope this helps,

Cheers,

Steve
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Old 06-14-2009, 03:11 AM
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coils

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Originally Posted by dambit View Post
Hi Don,

The blocks you are refering to are just mild steel. They help make the U shape that is needed for the converter. To get a custom made U shape magnet costs a fair amount of money, so this is just a cheap way of doing it. The magnets themselves are the same magnets Bedini recomends for the SSG. 25mm x 40mm x 10mm(h). Believe me, the are pretty strong when they are joined like this.

Hope this helps,

Steve
Thanks Steve.

Yes it does help.

Does Bedini discuss the coils at all in the video?
Size of wire?
Number of turns?
Length and diameter of coil?
Core material?

Thanks
DonL
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Old 06-14-2009, 03:29 AM
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Hi Don,

No he doesn't. As I said, he explaines the principles and some minor info about the build. He does however explain how and why the coils should be wound in a trifilar fashion.

Cheers,

Steve
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Old 06-14-2009, 06:47 PM
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If you need a north- and a south pole on the U shape magnet stack in the Kromrey, do you have to switch halfway the stack the magnets from polarity and push the top half and bottom half of the stack firmly together?

And can I use, instead of mild steel blocks, longer magnets on top and down of the smaller magnets to form the U shape?

Thanks

Paul
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Old 06-15-2009, 01:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Harmans View Post
If you need a north- and a south pole on the U shape magnet stack in the Kromrey, do you have to switch halfway the stack the magnets from polarity and push the top half and bottom half of the stack firmly together?

And can I use, instead of mild steel blocks, longer magnets on top and down of the smaller magnets to form the U shape?

Thanks

Paul
Hi Paul,

If you turn half of the stack over and push the two together you end up with the same polarity at both ends. That's not what we want.

As far as using a longer magnet at the end of each stack...... I guess so. I have never tried it, but I'm not sure it would work as well. You want to make the pole turn 90 degrees to make the U shape. If you just used a longer magnet there would be a small neutral area in the center of the longer magnet and this would be inefficient. That's just my opinion so don't let that stop you experimenting. I could be wrong.

Cheers,

Steve.
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Old 06-15-2009, 02:34 AM
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I wondered what that top block was, and whether it was a magnet...


If it is steel then one could machine it easily for a very close air gap to the stator if desired

Also, if your coils could move up and down the shaft you could experiment with more or less magnets for greater or weaker field strength.

Or alternately you could place a magnet there and get some laminations from a transformer and bridge the two magnets to complete the flux.

You really can see this thing growing into a beast.
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Old 06-15-2009, 03:46 AM
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Small status report: Coils have been wound, still working on core material, coil mounts. The rotor is almost finished, just have to glue second magnet in place. Hopefully I'll have it assembled tomorrow--I can't wait to spin this thing.
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