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  #601  
Old 11-25-2009, 02:19 AM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Fig 2 of the patent is where I think the "mistake" is shown, because the way Kromrey shows the iron pole pieces being attached to the magnets is wrong
No he uses a Yoke Magnet. It says this in the text. He adds iron the ends so make the round shape to couple the rotors shape.

Quote:
From the patent....35 advantageously, a pair of oppositely disposed yoke-shaped magnets, of the permanent or the electrically energized type, whose extremities constitute the aforementioned pole pieces
These were common in sixties, Alnico. You can still get them today.

The extremities match the cores on the rotor in that they are laminated soft iron foil.

I don't think you can post RAR files. Just PDF and DOC or images.

I'll PM you my email look for the message.

Matt
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  #602  
Old 11-25-2009, 06:03 PM
Dave Michael Rogers Dave Michael Rogers is offline
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Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
No he uses a Yoke Magnet. It says this in the text. He adds iron the ends so make the round shape to couple the rotors shape.


Matt

Hi Matt,

Can't disagree with you there, I only mentioned fig 2 as it was the only "mistake" I could find, but its so minor as you point out if yoke magnets used then what was the mistake.

The iron is important in order to guide the magnetics, but there maybe more.

Get three pieces of iron and a magnet.
Place a piece of iron on each face and note how strong the attraction is.
Now get the third piece of iron and attach it to the other two pieces of iron so that the magnetics are shorted out.

The attraction between the irons is much much stronger than the attraction between the magnet and the iron, even when shorted. Where does this extra attraction come from? The magnet isn't supplying all the magnetic attraction between the irons. I think the iron is drawing into the magnetic circuit environmental magnetic streams as well, causing the extra attraction.

Regards
Dave

PS. I just posted on the Tesla switch thread my design for a mechanical rotary switch to be attached to the Kromrey and driven from the prime mover.
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  #603  
Old 01-26-2010, 01:20 AM
chasson321 chasson321 is offline
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Just wondering?

last edit.....
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  #604  
Old 01-26-2010, 09:43 AM
baroutologos baroutologos is offline
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IMo devices like this are dead-end.
Experiment yourself just to find out
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  #605  
Old 01-26-2010, 05:19 PM
wrtner wrtner is offline
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Originally Posted by chasson321 View Post
Has anyone tried taking an iron bar and bending it in a circle and making one cut to have two half circles? Then winding two separate coils one for each half. Mount the two halves in a circle with a small gap between the ends and the hook one of the coils to an a/c outlet. Would the resulting electro magnetic field simulate the rotation of a Kromrey rotor? Would you get anything off of the second coil?

Tim
You need to see what the toroid people are up to.
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  #606  
Old 01-27-2010, 06:31 AM
chasson321 chasson321 is offline
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toroid people

last edit....
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  #607  
Old 03-13-2010, 03:39 AM
KenGrubaugh KenGrubaugh is offline
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Basic Info please

Is there a common place, where everyone is getting the plexiglass and bearings etc from? Most of what I need can not be found at the local Lowes etc.
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  #608  
Old 03-13-2010, 11:31 AM
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Acrylic Sheet

Brass or stainless Shaft is easy to get just google it.

Ceramic Bearings If you want them.

Other than that I would just google for suppliers

Good Luck
Matt
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  #609  
Old 03-14-2010, 12:28 AM
Schpankme Schpankme is offline
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I'm curious, the KROMREY ELECTRIC GENERATOR never performed outside the norm of the 1980's, who told you it would be any different today?

- Schpankme

A sales pitch is a planned presentation of a product or service designed to initiate and close a sale of the same product or service. A sales pitch is essentially designed to be either an introduction of a product or service to an audience who knows nothing about it, or a descriptive expansion of a product or service that an audience has already expressed interest in. Sales professionals prepare and give a sales pitch, which can be either formal or informal, and might be delivered in any number of ways.

Many sales professionals follow a specific format or guideline when developing a sales pitch. A sales pitch must accomplish several things in a short amount of time. It must present the product or service’s features, accessibility, and benefits. There are often several different people involved in the preparation and presentation of a sales pitch.

For a sales pitch to be effective, the presenter must know their product well. Though a good sales pitch will leave few questions unanswered, the presenter must be able to answer any questions that arise as a result of piqued interest. Even if a sales pitch is delivered effectively, the presenter must be prepared to overcome any obstacles that might prevent the close of the sale. - J. Beam
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  #610  
Old 03-14-2010, 01:00 AM
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I'm curious, the KROMREY ELECTRIC GENERATOR never performed outside the norm of the 1980's, who told you it would be any different today?
I'm not sure I follow you?

Matt
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  #611  
Old 03-14-2010, 09:08 AM
baroutologos baroutologos is offline
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I'm curious, the KROMREY ELECTRIC GENERATOR never performed outside the norm of the 1980's, who told you it would be any different today?
I might add, it never performed actually.
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  #612  
Old 03-14-2010, 11:19 AM
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Go Ahead baroutologos lay out all your findings for us. Some pictures of your machine and your testing information would be great.

Matt
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  #613  
Old 03-17-2010, 06:28 AM
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FrozenWaterLab FrozenWaterLab is offline
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Question

Just my Idea on a shaft source, and a few other thoughts for the garage tinker.
A Submersible Pump has a sextaganal (sp? 6-sided) shaft (19.25" long x 1/2") in it that is non magnetic stainless. I'm trying to attach a Picture with a Bick lighter next to the shaft and Broach.
You will need a broach (10.5" long) to make a 6 sided hole in your 1" Iron slugs that may be machined for your coils and your slip-rings. After drilling with the appropriate smaller size, it is forced through with a press to incrementally shape the hole.
Also for those that want to make their own slip-ring set.
I intend to use a 2" or 3" copper pipe coupling. Fill it with slow set Epoxy (meticulously centered on greased shaft). Also one may wish to epoxy not on the shaft, and add a paper rolled around the coupling to extend above and below it to make a longer structure to provide filler between your upper and lower iron bars.
This assembly (Both bars with epoxy / slip-ring cylinder) could then be held in position on the shaft with only two double set screw collars. If made long enough it could be drilled with 1" holes then cut in the center of the holes to nest the rods in, tapered to avoid the coils if need be.
Then drill and shape with Broach.
Then chucked up in drill press I will cut with hack saw a gap (two cuts 1/4" apart) in the middle of the coupling to make the two rings. Cut only deep enuff to slice the copper then sever and peal off the narrow ring between."
A side hole, down through the epoxy (top to bottom), can be used to rout the off side coil wire's from upper coil set to lower coil set.
The other end of each coil set. may be soldiered to the edge of the respective slip-ring.
For a Brush setup the largest diameter Air-Arc cutting rod (Copper coated Carbon rod) may be cut in short segments (Aprox 2") and drilled in one end, (aprox. 1/4" deep) to epoxy in (With electrically conductive cement) a brass threaded bolt after cutting off head, for connection on one end.
This bolt should be long enough for a coil spring to be slipped over to provide tension and have the threads protrude from your holder 1/2" to be able to attach an wiring connection ring to it (on the end farthest from the brush) with two brass nuts. (after insertion in the holder)
The brushes (2) would be held in a non conductive block of plastic drilled large enough to allow brush movement and deep enough to accept the brush and spring (aprox. 2"- 2 1/4" as you will want about 1/4" of the brush exposed) BUT NOT all the way through, stop with about a 1/4" of the block remaining. So the block should be about 2 3/4" long 1" thick. You then drill a smaller hole a bit bigger then the threaded rod. This allows about a 1/2" for the spring under light compression. I figure about 2" of threaded rod if the rod is into the carbon about a 1/4".
If you figure your separation correctly you may position both brushes in the same holder. Then if you use a large enough chunk of plastic you can drill side holes to mount it in the correct position, between the upper and lower end plates, so your brushes ride your rings. The brush material rod I have is about 1/2" in diameter.
The spring shouldn't need to be very strong but maybe an inch or less long.
Hope this helps. Let me know what you think?
FrznWtr
A few more thoughts and some questions on basic building technics.

Do you think standard motor 1" shaft is the correct Iron for the rotating slugs?
What Magnets might be best? I was thinking of building my unit to be able to use both ceramic mags like in the school girl, and neos. That way I could try/test one then replace with the other to do a comparison with everything else the same.
Also strong Neo's on ends with a bar of iron between. Sure would reduce the expense.
I plan on using non-mag stainless threaded rod to compress the top and bottom plates with n-m ss tubing for spacers.
How about aluminum channels to hold the magnet stacks in place?
Maybe recessed 1/4" into the plates.
I'm thinking a treadmill DC motor like for a windmill? The ones I have are about, 2.75 HP at 120 V - 5950 RPM, 2 HP at 75V - at a slower rpm (But I'm not sure what), 1HP at about 30-35 V - slower Etc. Etc. whats maby the best speed??? Running on a Rectified Variac might be the best way to figure, huh what do you think?? I got one.
Any thoughts on that would be appreciated.
I would think a small Cone type thrust Bering on the bottom would be a good idea. Support all that shaft weight right?
Anyone ever put a scope on one of these? Whats the wave form?
I understand the greater the load the less the drive current draw. What would make a good variable load?
Can the unit be used to drive another motor to drive another and so on Bigger and bigger or must the produced current be used to charge a Battery? That is what it sounded like to me on the CD.
Just trying to learn what might help. If theirs any thing else out their, Yaknow.
FrznWtr
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  #614  
Old 03-30-2010, 02:10 AM
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Why spin the Coils

OK I've got 16 2"x2"x1" N50 mags with a 1/4" hole in the center of the 2x2 face.
I'm going to mount these on a shaft and spin them between two or three sets of stationary coils. Wound full length on 1" shaft pieces held between two Plexiglas plates. Bearings mounted in Plex-plates. 4 mags per side on each end of shaft.
No slip-rings or brushes. 2 or 3 times the potential output.
Less magnet expense. No Coil spin stress.

What do you think - anybody out there?

FrznWtr
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  #615  
Old 04-15-2010, 07:30 PM
baroutologos baroutologos is offline
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Some Theoretical Possibilities

I was looking my experiment photos based on magnetic flux alteration principle and i was wandering...

We know that magnetism behaves more or less as electrism. It permeats some materials like a current whereas others do not. All those are known.

We can say that by having a magnet equals as having a battery. With the difference despite the huge philology around the subject it seems there is not any known plan at utilizing that free magnetic energy coming out from magnet.
...

* Electricity when static flowing can produce work in a bulb (resistance). Magnetism cannot perform work in magnetic resistant materials.
* Electricity can produce work when alternating in strength or by manipulation. Either in transformers or motors. Magnetism can produce work in the same manner.

The great difference between electricity and magnetism is the switching process.

* Electricity can be switched with ease by opening/closing a small switch even though that switch carries enormous power.
* Magnetism on the other hand interferes with the switch and considerable ergo is being consumed at the switching process rendering effectively any process under unity.

We have invented also for electricity semiconductors. Materials that their conducting/non conducting status can be altered by a small stimulus.
For magnetism there is not any.

Ideally for the making of a ready OU machine a magnetic semiconductor would be ideal that its magnetic on/off property could be controlled by a small stimulus also.

(e.g the magnetic properties of a material should change dramatically by the application of an electric field at right angles)

Or reversely a material that allows magnetism flow throw it, yet the same does not present attraction/repulsion will be a good substitute.

...
Any ideas?
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  #616  
Old 04-16-2010, 01:48 AM
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Actually that is already around

https://www.htw-saarland.de/fut/fue-...tovic_2002.pdf

He cast materials, either barium or alnico, and through a small electrical charge he can vary the strengths the direction of the pole and whether it is on or off.

Floyd sweet actually cast barium ferrite magnets that when introduced to a charge would start to oscillate between the poles.

I believe from what I can learn from them that the process they are/were using are identical.

I have been steady trying to get more info from the guy but have yet to get
a response. Unfortunately Ford Motor Company owns the right to the research.

Cheers
Matt
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  #617  
Old 05-13-2010, 08:08 PM
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My Attempt

Just finished putting together my attempt at a Kromrey. Ran it for a few minutes to determine if there were any bugs, found a couple, and will be taking some of it apart to address those issues. Like all first attempts, it is a work in progress. No results to report yet. Pictures attached. Mine isn't nice and round like you see in all the videos, but it's easier to find the center of a square, and I am lazy!
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  #618  
Old 06-11-2010, 10:59 PM
baroutologos baroutologos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baroutologos View Post
I was looking my experiment photos based on magnetic flux alteration principle and i was wandering...

We know that magnetism behaves more or less as electrism. It permeats some materials like a current whereas others do not. All those are known.

...
* Electricity can be switched with ease by opening/closing a small switch even though that switch carries enormous power.
We have invented also for electricity semiconductors. Materials that their conducting/non conducting status can be altered by a small stimulus.
For magnetism there is not any.
Hello there Mr Jones,

Being currently involved in magnetic experiments being inspired by Melichenko and Orbo tehnology testing various concepts and behaviours, I was thinking about the issue of creating magnetic circuits that will act as "semiconductors" or just as hydralic setups.

I was considering the utilization of a permanent magnet in a MEG-like setup that theoretically (LOL here) shows some promise.

Please take your time and give a second thought with a critical mood.

Diagram 1

is the plain non-functional MEG for the known reasons. (any B-flux alteration at any leg will make the the pick-up coils respond in contrast to controlling coils resulting in null net energy effect)

Diagram 2

is based upon the Orbo somehow concept.
The toroids or rectangular trasnformer like legs will act as diodes.
This scheme can work only during demagnetization part.

That means. A controlling coil pulses. The main PM flux is being directed to one double C core and returns
Both "C"s if identical are having same flux strenth. In one C a coil is wound.
This coil has a diode in order to respond to the demagnetizing current or during PM B-flux removal.
The stimulus for the B-flux removal is the feeble controlling coils.

Naturally the coil will respond to the B-flux drop with a current that opposes that drop. In flux terms will oppose the flux created by controlling coils.

BUT, since the CC core is a closed system or something like a diode, this opposing Lenz law flux will be restricted inside the CC1 part and hoppefully would not reflect to the controlling coils.

What's your view on this since you bear considerable experience on the magnetic setups?


ps: By the way, from my pulsing experiments so far, this plan seems to bear some functionality.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg non-functional MEG.JPG (26.2 KB, 53 views)
File Type: jpg my_suggestion.JPG (27.2 KB, 56 views)
File Type: jpg working stages.JPG (42.6 KB, 48 views)
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Old 06-13-2010, 05:32 AM
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I'll have model finished in the morning of this. I'll be able to answer a little better after I look at a few things.
I haven't had much experience with these static type generators.

Matt
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Old 06-13-2010, 11:49 AM
baroutologos baroutologos is offline
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Have you starting working on my suggestion?

Me i do not posses double C or CI cores yet. Only EI, so i wait them to arrive.
By the way, my experinece on the field is quite limited since i have been involved in Tesla technologies mainly.

By the way this suggestion is based on two underline assumptions.

1) Magnetism behaves as electricity or any fluid flow that prefers the path of least resistance to go. (true)

2) A feeble magnetic flow can control a seriously larger magnetic flow, if the material that flows is far from its saturation point.

I have seen several arrangements on this in the internet and consider it natural.
I think Naudin in his MEG section has said the same thing. By the way, i have not experienced this myself and do not know for sure.
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Old 06-15-2010, 01:31 PM
baroutologos baroutologos is offline
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Anyone knowning regarding magnetic circuits, IF the attarction force is linear to the B-flux going through?

Links for that?
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Old 06-15-2010, 02:41 PM
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I can't answer that last one.

I have tried 4 models and tried to get the reaction you show in your drawings. It doesn't show up.
That doesn't mean but so much, I have seen several cases that won't model and work or do model and don't work. But sometimes its an indicator.

I haven't enough experience with a static type generators to know one way or the other.

I would like to know of your progress, so keep us informed, Please.

Cheers
Matt
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Old 06-17-2010, 06:29 AM
baroutologos baroutologos is offline
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Experimental Facts

We all know, the MEG and its working assumptions.

(i know this is not a MEG thread, there is not any, anyway so because of the magnetic mechanics nature of my experiments i will post info here)

In order to investigate some concepts i assembled a setup according p1.
I immedietely observed that each "plug" if fit correctly (without many gaps - that was my big problem, tiny gap will seriously alter flux gating), will have an equal amount of flux.

I can tell "equal" because the force needed to push it apart and break the magnetic circuit is almost even. What is interesting is that if you remove one "plug" and try to remove and the other one, (that will have double flux now) you gonna need not x 2 force but considerably higher.

Regarding the Coils, those were wound so as to formulate an north-oposing pole at the Permanent Neo Magnet Static field, thus redirecting the flux to the other plug. (MEG like)

....
Questions: How much contrary flux need to be generated by a coils in order to switch the flux?

There has been a sense in this forum that a tiny flux can control a larger one (in a magnetic circuit with two paths of equal impedance) since magnetism behaves as a fluid and prefers going to the least resistance path.

This is fundamentally wrong. I found out experimentally, that in order to halt the flux from going to a plug and being redirected to the other, a magnetomotive force or an opposing flux generated by the powered coils is needed that is equal (more or less) in strength with the magnetomotive force of the flux entering the leg at relaxation state. (diagram a-b)

This will result in a Null flux state in side of the working coils
YouTube - flux becomes null at powered leg.MPG

Now, if you underpower the controlling coils, a lesser B flux will enter the specific plug and the same increase will be noted at the opposite one.
This flux reduction-addition is linear to coil's power.
If now coil is overpowered, flux will flow to the specific plug at the opposite direction (and will be enhanced at the other plug respectively).

YouTube - under-powered coil lead to not re-directing the B-flux.MPG
YouTube - correct-powered coils null flux.MPG
YouTube - over-powered coils lead to magnetic reversal of poles.MPG

An interesting thing to note is that the flux "manipulation" works in the same manner either in the "push" or "pull" mode. The controlling coils if powered to "pull" the flux instead of "push", the same and opposite results were seen.

How i concluded the above
....

I made a dynamometering platform (p2,3)
Then I made a lot of experimenting there. First of all the setup alone with the permanent magnet (tested two neomagnets for more accurate results). i wound also new coils and made carton coils (too much labour! diagram "arrangement specs")

First in a closed magnetic circuit i tried to pull off one plug and measuring Force. Forced need for the weaker neo-magnet is equal 1,5 Kgr. (small scale)

If i remove the top plug and double flux permeats the one remaining, the force need to remove it goes around 5 Kgr. (same behaviour both magnets) (diagram c & d)

...
After experimenting with the coils, i found that a typical null flux in a plug (plug is eaily detached) is achieved by pumping 0.35A of current to the controllimg coil pairs. (small deviations between both coil pairs)

In the dynamometering platform, i found out that the Force needed (1.5 kgr) to remove a plug in the closed magnetic circuit with the coils powered at 0.35A is equal to the case of diagram (c) of the PM alone. (diagram e)
This fact talks a lot.

The magnetomotive force as i said, it must be equal to the one this plug experiences by the magnet at relaxation state.


Relationship between flux and attraction
...

As you know the larger the flux that permeats a closed magnetic circuit the larger the attraction of its materials. (more difficult to break it apart)
By how much?

Below is a some experimental results from my dynamometering platform.
A pair of coil (black-one) powered at:

0.1Amp forced needed to break the circuit (without magnet) 0.1Kgr
0.35Amps ------------------------------------------------ 1.5Kgr
0.65 Amps ----------------------------------------------- 5 Kgr
1 amps ---------------------------------------------- cannot break it with hands

By knowing that the flux of an electromagnet is the product of Amps x turns,
then you see a 3.5 times bigger flux requires 15 times greater force.
And an almost double flux requires a magnetic circuit breaking force of 3+ times. (exponential increase)


ps:

from the above data, all those who built flux-gating setups they should much better to decrease flux permeating their gates to decrease cogging.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1.JPG (44.3 KB, 44 views)
File Type: jpg p2.JPG (54.4 KB, 62 views)
File Type: jpg p3.JPG (44.8 KB, 54 views)
File Type: jpg arrangement specs.JPG (29.8 KB, 37 views)
File Type: jpg diagrams a-b.JPG (22.6 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg diagrams c-d-e.JPG (20.1 KB, 25 views)
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Last edited by baroutologos; 06-17-2010 at 07:23 AM.
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Old 06-22-2010, 09:17 PM
simonx2 simonx2 is offline
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missing things...?

Hi

I see that this conversation again tends to move in different direction... Please stay on topic.

Did any of you found german (or GB) and french patent? I did and what really intrigued me is that they are a bit different from US patent.
The coils connection pattern is similar but when I saw this it hit me like a thunderbolt... I haven't noticed it in us patent at first time, totally overlooked it! There is only one slip ring! Nobody mentioned that far to this point.
In FIG.5 (US pat.) we clearly see that one end of last coil is connected to shaft and at the same time to the armature!!!! Same thing but described more precisely is in GB patent... see for yourself. So it means that the current is passed through the coils, laminated iron cores, shaft and also generator housing which holds the stator magnets. Totally screwed setup! This thing changes all.
It reminds me a bit small homopolar motor made from battery, screw, neodymium magnet and copper wire. Current goes through the magnet and it spins...
Something really strange here gentlemen... I'm waiting for your clues...

PS: sorry but english is not my mother language.

Simon
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File Type: jpg DE patent.jpg (185.8 KB, 64 views)
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  #625  
Old 08-07-2010, 11:46 AM
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Hi folks, Has anyone noticed that the output polarities from the kromrey are the same polarity. If I'm interpreting the wiring diagrams correctly that is what i see. It also appears to be series/parallel configuration. I don't recall all the posts in this thread, did anyone generate any power with this and if so could you explain how you had the coils wired. Thanks.
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Tyson
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Old 08-07-2010, 11:56 AM
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This is a pic of the diagram and I marked stator magnet polarity and the induced polarity at the points shown on generator armature. Notice how like polarities are output.
http://a.imageshack.us/img203/872/kromreygenstanley.jpg
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Tyson
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  #627  
Old 08-08-2010, 03:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
This is a pic of the diagram and I marked stator magnet polarity and the induced polarity at the points shown on generator armature. Notice how like polarities are output.
http://a.imageshack.us/img203/872/kromreygenstanley.jpg
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Tyson
Which patent did you get this diagram from?
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Old 08-08-2010, 03:51 AM
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Hi dllabarre, that is from patent US 3,374,376.
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Tyson
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Old 08-09-2010, 05:47 PM
simonx2 simonx2 is offline
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John Bedini in Kromrey converter-part 10 movie, draws on blackboard "conventional" N-S version. Intuition tells me that this won't work...
I thought that monopole version is correct one (M. B. King-scalar current)? Can we achieve the same results with both arrangements...?
I saw on youtube two replications, both in monopole configurations. I assume it gives pulsed dc output. Why then J. Bedini use bridge rectifier on the output...? Or his machine works in N-S mode which gives ac output, then it is all clear...? Please enlighten me because I feel like I'm stuck.
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Old 08-09-2010, 11:14 PM
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Doesn't matter what magnet arrangement you use it is going to give you AC and need to be rectified. Test for yourself.

Matt
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