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John Bedini Discussion threads relating to John Bedini. Bedini SG, Bedini SSG, Crystal Batteries, etc...

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  #541  
Old 10-19-2009, 03:20 AM
JANGYD JANGYD is offline
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Cold Charging and speeds up rate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
I do not have a working prototype of the same machine you are working on. From the movie.
I have something similar but very small.
My understanding of what is going on is based on other work I have done.

But I understand the energy flow in the system correctly. I am not misleading you to the best of my understanding.

What is it your machine does not do correctly?

Matt
I can't see cold air flowing and cold charging, and its speeds up rate like Muller's report(from 2400rpm to 4380rpm under short condition),
also high rate COP like Mulluer Report.
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  #542  
Old 10-19-2009, 04:48 AM
JANGYD JANGYD is offline
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Question

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Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
Your magnet pulls the iron core into place. No lenz
Now while at TDC
---We have closed the path between all the magnets.
---While the path is closed You are emulating a permanent magnet.
---Neg. Energy flows into the system and saturates the iron core. But you have 0 charge on the wire because of the equal flux in all 4 coils.
(N,S,N,S)
Now we break the alignment (After TDC)
---The charge in the iron is released from the flux path onto the wire. This charge is Negative in nature.
---Being negative the charge will induce the opposite field back on the iron (Remember the 2 way street)
---So now instead of the coil being in line with the magnetic field it is opposite. The effect is a repulsion instead of attraction. You beat lenz.
North pushes North away.
But... Even more happens after that...

The next flux path starts to align and the iron is still charged NORTH, but the magnet coming in is SOUTH. Now we get extra attraction.. (Now you just whooped Lenz real bad)
And the above then starts over.
Matt
Matt, I think Negative Energy can't be with Positive Energy at the same time.
when AC shorted or under load there are always some current on the coil.
Energy Exchages between Magnet and Iron and Coil could be like your
simulation, but Why does this happen only when the coil is loaded?
That means coil is closed loop causing current flow.

JANG
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  #543  
Old 10-19-2009, 05:06 AM
ABCStore ABCStore is offline
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Any fan will create a "cold air flow" illusion. I didn't see any thermometer in the video...

ABC
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  #544  
Old 10-19-2009, 05:42 AM
baroutologos baroutologos is offline
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At jangYD,

Listen man. You are said that by closing down the magnetic flux path, iron core charges, whereas the wire bears 0 charge. So 0 charge or 0 potential equals zero current as we know.

In that single phrase that the Master here claims, i understand one thing.
That the coils should be wired in opposition that they should be normally be to get the generator working.


LOL. We have tried here almost everything. I have deassembled my setups. Try that for me and report, if you do not mind.

bottom line, tha coils should be wired in voltage opposition to each other. So standard electricity could not flow there. Perhaps you see the magic

edit:
LOL, KROMREY ELECTRIC GENERATOR - Google Patent Search see the patent.

The figures 4-5 represent standard winding topology.
The figure 6 is bizzare. Each winding cancel other windings EMF.

What you say?

baroutologos
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  #545  
Old 10-19-2009, 06:38 AM
JANGYD JANGYD is offline
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Patent has something wrong

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Originally Posted by baroutologos View Post
At jangYD,

Listen man. You are said that by closing down the magnetic flux path, iron core charges, whereas the wire bears 0 charge. So 0 charge or 0 potential equals zero current as we know.

In that single phrase that the Master here claims, i understand one thing.
That the coils should be wired in opposition that they should be normally be to get the generator working.


LOL. We have tried here almost everything. I have deassembled my setups. Try that for me and report, if you do not mind.

bottom line, tha coils should be wired in voltage opposition to each other. So standard electricity could not flow there. Perhaps you see the magic

edit:
LOL, KROMREY ELECTRIC GENERATOR - Google Patent Search see the patent.

The figures 4-5 represent standard winding topology.
The figure 6 is bizzare. Each winding cancel other windings EMF.

What you say?

baroutologos
I've been told that the winding in patent is wrong intented or not.
Current 0 means a certain state of moment there is no current so the output
should be DC. That is before the bridge diode swith on.
I think that's the JB's unidirectional impulse technology.
Let me know what'r wrong with me.

JANG
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  #546  
Old 10-19-2009, 06:43 AM
JANGYD JANGYD is offline
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You can be right.

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Originally Posted by ABCStore View Post
Any fan will create a "cold air flow" illusion. I didn't see any thermometer in the video...

ABC
I think so and you could be right.
There could be no 'cold charging' , even charging itself.
But I trust him,that's my starting point for this research.
thanks.

JANG
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  #547  
Old 10-19-2009, 08:58 AM
baroutologos baroutologos is offline
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Obviously patent there is wrong. The point is, if current should not flow, then its the only way not to. (having opposing coils polarities)

By the way, i would rather give it a shot rather talking and talking and endless talking...

Baroutologos
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  #548  
Old 10-19-2009, 09:46 AM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Quote:
Matt, I think Negative Energy can't be with Positive Energy at the same time.
when AC shorted or under load there are always some current on the coil.
Energy Exchanges between Magnet and Iron and Coil could be like your
simulation, but Why does this happen only when the coil is loaded?
That means coil is closed loop causing current flow.
If the current (or what ever is there) is not flowing then it can't induce a strong field on the wire. When there is no current to induce feilds, the motor has to drag the iron past the coil. Slow RPM.
But with flow comes the fields. Then the process kicks in.

Coil windings should correspond with one set of magnets. So if you pick a closed spot the first winding is at a North magnet, then the coil should be wound to the north, the second south and so on.
If for instance you used a south winding on a north magnet in set 1 then you used a south winding on a South magnet in set 2 and so forth you may not be inducing a good feild.
This should be visible in your scope though, but maybe not.
But all the winding should correspond to one set of magnets in the system.

The other problem and I don't know, I'm gonna model it this evening. The iron on the top and bottom may not carry the flux around the corner. This may be a pretty significant issue, it may not be, but I want to see.
If it is its an easy fix and worth trying. Put some Neo's on the correct ends of iron and heat the iron up for period of time.
But thats just something that crossed my mind.

Matt
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  #549  
Old 10-19-2009, 10:28 AM
JANGYD JANGYD is offline
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My winding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
If the current (or what ever is there) is not flowing then it can't induce a strong field on the wire. When there is no current to induce feilds, the motor has to drag the iron past the coil. Slow RPM.
But with flow comes the fields. Then the process kicks in.

Coil windings should correspond with one set of magnets. So if you pick a closed spot the first winding is at a North magnet, then the coil should be wound to the north, the second south and so on.
If for instance you used a south winding on a north magnet in set 1 then you used a south winding on a South magnet in set 2 and so forth you may not be inducing a good feild.
This should be visible in your scope though, but maybe not.
But all the winding should correspond to one set of magnets in the system.

The other problem and I don't know, I'm gonna model it this evening. The iron on the top and bottom may not carry the flux around the corner. This may be a pretty significant issue, it may not be, but I want to see.
If it is its an easy fix and worth trying. Put some Neo's on the correct ends of iron and heat the iron up for period of time.
But thats just something that crossed my mind.

Matt
Matt, attached two shots are my winding and current flow shot.
If there's wrong, correct me.
According to my current flow shot, working process of my machine can be
explained by conventional concept exactly. that's lagging in Iron pole.
I think you can analyze that scope shot.
there is the Lenz drag (area A)when the rotor appraches the stator.
After lagging in Iron pole discharging time due to load impedance
there is a little bit ANTI-Lenz drag, I think this makes speeds up a little bit
after turning point of RPM.
Do you have any idea?

JANG
Attached Images
File Type: jpg my winding.jpg (13.9 KB, 60 views)
File Type: jpg at2000rpm.jpg (58.1 KB, 62 views)
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  #550  
Old 10-19-2009, 10:37 AM
JANGYD JANGYD is offline
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Sorry!

Quote:
Originally Posted by baroutologos View Post
Obviously patent there is wrong. The point is, if current should not flow, then its the only way not to. (having opposing coils polarities)

By the way, i would rather give it a shot rather talking and talking and endless talking...

Baroutologos
@Baroutologos I don't want to make you upset and waste your precious time.
I also don't like endless talking, but sometimes talking makes me clear
what I don't know and what the problem is.
That's not important you are correct or not, you guide me correctly or incorrectly.
Through this talk looks like useless and endless I study myself and teach myself.
I am sorry to say like this, too selfish for me.
Thanks,

JANG
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  #551  
Old 10-19-2009, 10:45 AM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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You are not putting out the right wave form.

Correct waveform


Whats happening in yours is the energy is piling up.

This could be the windings. I may be wrong, if the picture of your windings is correct, and that is what I describe. I may be wrong about that.

Have tried all the coils wound the same? All 4 wound to the North?

Do you have picture of the Iron on top of the magnets and the iron in your coil. What is the size difference?

I gotta go to work, I'll answer back this evening.

Cheers
Matt
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  #552  
Old 10-19-2009, 10:50 AM
JANGYD JANGYD is offline
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Off load voltage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
You are not putting out the right wave form.

Correct waveform


Whats happening in yours is the energy is piling up.

This could be the windings. I may be wrong, if the picture of your windings is correct, and that is what I describe. I may be wrong about that.

Have tried all the coils wound the same? All 4 wound to the North?

Do you have picture of the Iron on top of the magnets and the iron in your coil. What is the size difference?

I gotta go to work, I'll answer back this evening.

Cheers
Matt
I think that's voltage shot off load or on high impedance.
My shot is under DC shorted.
Another scope shot was added

JANG
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File Type: jpg voltage on off load.jpg (56.1 KB, 42 views)
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  #553  
Old 10-19-2009, 11:07 AM
JANGYD JANGYD is offline
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My spec.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
You are not putting out the right wave form.

Correct waveform


Whats happening in yours is the energy is piling up.

This could be the windings. I may be wrong, if the picture of your windings is correct, and that is what I describe. I may be wrong about that.

Have tried all the coils wound the same? All 4 wound to the North?

Do you have picture of the Iron on top of the magnets and the iron in your coil. What is the size difference?

I gotta go to work, I'll answer back this evening.

Cheers
Matt
Matt,

I can't understand what you mean by The BOLD, Please explain more.
Are there something wrong in my coil winding?
Yes I wound the same all 4 coil with 18AWG 130turns+-2
I have a lot of core size and test all that, but the result is the same.
Generally my tested core is like this
Length : 80mm ~100mm, Round type and Square type.
Outer size : 28mm ~34mm
inner size(coil container area):15mm ~ 25mm
Coil container length : 28mm~38mm
Coil type :18AWG 100 tune ~ 150turns and 23AWG litz same with 18 AWG
Magnet : S-ferrite and B-ferrite, Neodium.

I'm sorry I can't picture it this evening I don't have a camera.
Next day I will try it.

Regards,

JANG YOUNGDEUK
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  #554  
Old 10-19-2009, 08:52 PM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Have you tried smaller wire? 5 wire of 24 at 500 turns is less than 1 ohm of resistance.
You might need more turns of smaller wire based on the magnet type.
What kinda magnets? how big?


Quote:
I can't understand what you mean by The BOLD, Please explain more.
Don't pay attention to that.

I got drawing made today for parts. I'll order part tomorrow and I am going to get one built.

Matt
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  #555  
Old 10-20-2009, 01:25 AM
JANGYD JANGYD is offline
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Another question

Logically if Attraction power is the same, when iron poles pulling in and
pushing out have the same power with 180 degree phase out.

Why is there needed more power when the gap is tighter.
More energy needed for breaking the lock. Why this happen?
Thanks,

JANG
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  #556  
Old 10-20-2009, 02:22 AM
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More magnetic attraction. Remember the energy isn't realeased from the iron until the attraction is broken.

What size and type of magnet are you using?

Matt
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  #557  
Old 10-20-2009, 03:34 AM
JANGYD JANGYD is offline
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magnet size tested

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
More magnetic attraction. Remember the energy isn't realeased from the iron until the attraction is broken.

What size and type of magnet are you using?

Matt
@Matt

Length * width * height
1) 40 * 25 * 10
2) 48 * 22 * 20
3) 48 * 22 * 10
4) 48 * 19 * 10
for Ferrite(Strontium & Barium)
40 * 25 * 10 for neodium

After talking with you I've got to understand many things
Even I can't understand your suggestion of energy exchange between
Magnet & Iron Core & Wire.
Let me have some drawing and more explaination for energy exchages, if your time available.

Another thing>
After seeing your Video for magnet motor I tried it.
If you are OK, I would like to talk with you for that.
But that's out of topic in this thread, I don't want to distrupt this thread.
My email is thedipole@gmail.com.

Regards,

JANG
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  #558  
Old 10-20-2009, 09:58 AM
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I am working on the diagrams now.

I'll shoot you an email soon.

Matt
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  #559  
Old 10-23-2009, 02:44 AM
JANGYD JANGYD is offline
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Non-Magnetic Shaft only

Hi All,

JB stressed Non-Magntic material for its shaft to make the machine run correctly and pointed out what the difference is between twos, that's
different flux paths.
Does this make an influence on the Iron Bar?, like lessening the flux through
the Iron Pole. Do you have any idea for that?

Regards,

JANG
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  #560  
Old 10-23-2009, 10:31 AM
baroutologos baroutologos is offline
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I have re-saw the EFTV 10 episode.

With an open mind and a critique mood i go through it.
I must say it is not very convicing at all. The points

1) The Converter generates cold electricity.
he touched the wires to prove it. Touching any voltage below 40 volts is quite safe. At least for my hand.

2) The electricity is of no current. He used a very thin strand of a wire. In the old times, in our factory, (olive oil extraction installation) because fuses were burnt so often we re-make them alone.
I know that this very very thin strand of wire can manage to work as a fuse for currents up to 10amps @ 340 volts. The shorter the strand the higher the amperage.

Why not placing an ammeter in the output instead?

3)By placing the resistive load, i.e. the car light, we saw the actual power of the generator. Quite little. Only when the car light was connected in ASSISTANCE with the charged battery will light satisfactory.

4) Production of cold air as well as cold in charged battery. As many have said here, the feeling of cold is very subjective. A use of an IR thermometer would have settled the issue.

....
Not wanting to say more, all those question remains unanswered. In fact the only motivation have all those involved in the Kromrey's converter machine is their faith and trust towards the person of Bedini.

Why we have been involved in the "OU" reseacrh in the first place we must wander. Why we do not believe the quite respected and serious mainstream scientists that says OU cannot exist, at least in usefull modes.
Perhaps its because we have heard or seen in the web OU devices at work?

So seeing is believing. In Kormrey's converter i have not seen anything so far.

Baroutologos
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  #561  
Old 10-23-2009, 11:15 AM
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The Kromrey patent does not mention amperage or flow of current at all.
Thats pretty unusual in the language of a generator patent...

He only talk about the correlation between RPM's and voltage potential.

Bedini didn't say anything about that either.... I guess you have to do your homework to figure that stuff out.

Matt
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Old 10-23-2009, 11:54 AM
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The Kromrey patent does indirectly mention amperage and voltage and represents an amp meter and an voltmeter at the output of this device.

Indeed, Bedini does not say anything about voltage output. In fact he does vague statements and demonstrations that could be interpreted as anyone wishes.

Last, by his sayings go figure out what is supposed to do. In any case he says clearly as a crystal, this machine produces 120 % more power in any terms you want that the power you input in (crude state).

With a good making you can make some 300 or 400% max. Of course he does not prove anything. Only what he says. The particular machine on the DVD used some 10 amps (rough to say from that kind of amp meter) at 12 or better 24 volts for power. This is an input of 120-240 watts.

Yes it failed to light effectively the 60watts car light alone. If it was going to make 120% eff or 300% as he claims the device should outputed some 300-600 watts of energy in one form or another.

Noone, even the most Bedini loyal cannot even believe those figures. What about charging the 60amph battery? With 300-600 watts should have been the battery exploded.

Here with everybody's design, the more optimistic is to achieve a 60% efficiency.

Consider what i have said above.

Baroutologos
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  #563  
Old 10-23-2009, 01:03 PM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Quote:
The Kromrey patent does indirectly mention amperage and voltage and represents an amp meter and an voltmeter at the output of this device.
Sorry all he mentions is Watts, based on the loads expected consumption. In one case it 3 lights in series. He based his watts of consumption, on expected load. Or in other word impedance matching.

We are very clear on your point of view when it comes to Bedini. We all get the idea that you feel you are a complete and perfect researcher.
That alone does not help us get further.
You are more than entitled to your opinion, but thats what it is, an opinion.

If you are not going to help further the information growth than why post at all? You have stalled any potential for growth just by closing your mind.

You never know what can be stumbled upon while walking forward.

If it is your opinion that we are being mislead, then leave, so you are no longer the victim. But please leave the criticism somewhere else. It gets old, you are boring us to death. You are not the first one to feel this way and you won't be the last.

So please just go away or get off the subject.

Matt
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Old 10-23-2009, 03:22 PM
baroutologos baroutologos is offline
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Being away from the subject or sticking here i cannot make any difference do i? Does Bedini or you afraid of criticism? Your ideas does not work with un-cooperative guys?

No matter what i do, the vital questions remain unanswered. Failure to answer those are not a mediocre issue. Its a real failure.

Anyone doing serious research should seek some serious answers on them and should not be satisfied with chinese wisdom or anything without proof.

Blind faith has not really helped anyone on anything.

I will be more than happy to be wrong, whereas the gathered evidence so far is on the contrary. Your case of insisting without any proof is of real question.

Baroutologos
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  #565  
Old 10-23-2009, 03:53 PM
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Hi All,

Baroutologos, I do not understand your change of opinion. Am I correct in thinking that you once had an open mind about OU? Your opinion is valued, but as Mat has stated, if all you have to offer is negative input than please don't. Your message is heard.

I for one have faith in Bedini. Based on my own results with his type of chargers, I am willing to accept his claims about the Kromrey device. I have not achieved the desired results with my own build, but am still striving to improve on what I have done. At this stage, I believe that is all we can do. Continue to seek the results.

Cheers,

Steve.
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  #566  
Old 10-23-2009, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Being away from the subject or sticking here i cannot make any difference do i?
No you don't make difference. You just criticize. You just belittle. You just demean.
No one says your wrong. Maybe the machine is all a hoax. Maybe we are all blind and stupid people as you imply.
But I for one am willing to take look at the theory and the talk about what is possible and not possible. View all the points.

Just because YOUR machine didn't work and you have a bad attitude does not convince me that all is lost.

Last time I am going to ask. Change your way of presenting your argument or go away. We are trying to move forward not dwell on your small minded and relatively weak experience.

Matt
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  #567  
Old 10-24-2009, 06:23 AM
baroutologos baroutologos is offline
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Its not that my machine did not worked. Its about anyone's machine did not work neither we have shown ANY machine to actually work as claimed.

By the way, out of respect to Dambit, i will be quiet here.

Baroutologos
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Old 10-24-2009, 12:51 PM
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I have been hashing over the thread today and I have took notice of one thing that did not come up.

Its again in the coils. But not the windings, the core.

It seem that all the machines have one thing in common that is not common in the Kromrey Patent.
All of the Iron core have a magnetic choke in the reproductions and the Kromrey obviously does not have the same proportion of a choke.

The different attempts at the stator all show 2 forms. The core is solid across the ferrous shaft. But the core either gets small to go through the shaft or there is a hole in the core for the shaft to fit through.
Generally no matter the case there is a 50 percent or better loss of magnetic flux material. A CHOKE POINT.

Kromrey s patent show a great amount of flux. Large blocks of steel or laminated plate in fact. The amount of mass lost from the shaft going through it is (estimated) within or less than 10%. Look closely at SHEET 2 of the patent.

I would be willing to bet at least a better outcome if this was more proportional.

I have run just about every shape configuration I can think of through Vizimag to look at the uniform fields. The larger mass in the coils allows for more uniformity in the over all fields. The smaller ones get haywire. Lots imbalance and stray flux.

Just something to note, look for yourself.

Matt
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  #569  
Old 10-24-2009, 01:45 PM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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One more absent test.

One thing I have also clued in on but may have missed somewhere, is the fact that no one has tried to see if the energy coming out of the machine will charge the batteries on either pole after being rectified.

Bedini did that one time in the movie and it made no difference on the battery, and it did not spark.
He did spark at one time on run, when he tried back charging his source. I believe that was the fault of the bridge and had nothing to do with the energy coming out of the converter.

This would be a Key result. Unfortunately it might have gotten overlooked.

Because every body seems to be looking for the mystical and magical cold charging, some big issues have been lost.

Even if this generator is not OU and and is only 60% or so efficient it is a great opportunity. For one if the energy can be received by either pole of the battery we have more access to the ability to shuttle potential around a
circuit at will alot easier than before.

If the Driving Motors power source was open loop and the energy used in it recoverable this generator could provide a significant source of supplemental
energy at the cost of low torque.
I often wondered why the Brandt Tesla switch was published in the same report with the Kromrey generator. I have done alot of work with the Tesla Switch and I am very aware of its potential.
This is what interests me mostly with the Kromrey converter.

But this is troubling as well, no one seems to put the 2 together, even in theory. No one has put the idea out that an open loop power source could shoot the things input to out put ratio pretty high.

I am taking a good look at the aspects before I build mine complete. I think genuinely think the key is in some little details, geometry of the machine, coupled with quality of the parts. Also the power source for the driving motor is key. Closed loops lose.
Remember the little comment about the fate of most machines, So and So sold out to some wind farm....Hmmm makes you wonder what they use as the primary inputs power source and how they run the number on somthing like a wind driven machine.

Matt
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  #570  
Old 10-24-2009, 11:40 PM
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ren ren is offline
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YouTube - Kromrey Converter - speeding up under load

DMR seems to be having some luck.

Check out his other vids, there is one where he assembles this unit one piece at a time, might give others some clues.

Regards
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